"Was it really a skilled play to begin with?"
what a good determiner of skill
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Clearly you are being outskilled
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All gens are done what is he supposed to do?
But yeah, there is barely any skill in this game and when it happens it doesn't reward you as it should. Instead you can also get punished for it while the teammates who didn't do much escape.
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Obviously he's the most skilled player in the match.
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Hey don't worry man they've got a prototype that will never make it to the main game just like the last facecamping prototype that was impossible due to survivors abusing it lmao.
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shouldnt of gotten in that situation in the first place 4head
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Well... tbf, you went vs this killer, and so far it seems like he's winning when you boil it down to pure numbers (which is what the MMR is based on).
Seriously, I've love for some of you guys to come up with any kind of workable system, even on paper, that we can poke holes in it and laugh at your lack of understanding as to how these things work or what the devs mean went they're talking about software functionality.
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I'm not complaining that he's facecamping with no gens left I'm complaining that the flashlight save + 3 gen chase mean ######### all to this matchmaking system because he was able to down me once at the end of the game since apparently that's all that matters 😭
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Thanks for clarifying that because some people are bashing nemesis based on one picture.
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Dang, I wish I could face a player with that much raw talent.
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So, let me get this straight (and let's be clinical about this).
You played against this killer, and - regardless of how it happened - the killer killed you, i.e. they achieved their objective as killer, and you did not survive as survivor (clue is in the name).
So now the MM system would lean towards pairing this killer vs survivors that are more likely to escape, and you with killers less likely to catch you.
But in your mind, you think that - even though the killer killed, and the survivor died - the killer should be the one to face easier survivors (so they can do this more easily), and the survivor should go against more difficult killers (with the likelihood they'll just be caught/killed again if this match is anything to go by)? And that process should just continue and repeat if the outcomes are consistent (i.e. the killer killing and the survivor dying)?
I'd love for you to make that make sense to me.
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I'm saying that determining skill based off of kills/escapes is illogical because most people would agree a 1k 9 hook game takes more skill overall as a killer to pull off than a 2k 2 hook game, yes. I'm saying that ignoring everything a player on either side can do in a game to boil the system down to just kills/escapes and calling that skill makes no sense, yes. I'm saying that the entire concept is flawed and while RBMM was terrible, the basic concept behind the Emblem system was substantially better than SBMM, yes. I'm saying that Emblems needed tweaks + the RBMM system needed redoing, but not the entire concept, as well as having the old rank reset back, yes. Glad we're on the same page.
I wouldn't even be mad if it was called kill-based matchmaking, because that would make sense. But it isn't. Skill-based matchmaking.
And the title of the post is poking fun at a comment on a dev stream. Because apparently, skill is nothing more than if you escaped or died, despite the fact that dbd is much more than that, and if they couldn't get something like this to work without boiling it down to kills/escapes and pretending it was skill, then they should've changed the name or scrapped the concept.
This took 2 years to figure out.
2. Years.
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I'm saying that determining skill based off of kills/escapes is illogical
And I'm saying it's completely logical, and I laid out the steps demonstrating that logic.
You can say it's illogical all you like, but as yet you've literally not given an actual logical argument/reason why it doesn't work.
If you're so sure of your position, then please answer my question directly instead of flirting around the issue.
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Getting more hooks is not always realistic imo. With nemi maybe but if you are playing m1 killer, even if you are skilled you can't do much at times against coordinated team. Unless they make mistakes and you capitalise.
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I edited the comment, that might help bestie x
But in case it still doesn't I'll spell it out plain and simple:
DBD is a game where boiling skill down to 2 polar opposites, did you escape or die, is completely illogical for multiple reasons. Teammates can easily be the cause of your death as survivor, and yet apparently you weren't skilled enough. Grab validation messed up your killer game? That's an issue with your skill, not the game. Facecamped at 3 gens in solo and everyone tries to save you? That's entirely on you, by the way- your skill issue for going down in the first place.
Ignoring everything that goes on in a game from either side, while simultaneously attempting to effectively judge any form of skill, is just flawed. You can do it, sure, but no effective outcome can be reached. Emblems did it better, and RBMM was mostly fine until the reset changes, at which point it entirely broke.
It is simply more skillful to get a 16 minute long 10 hook 2k than a 4 minute long 4 hook 4k because you facecamped solos with insidious and someone didn't have Kindred equipped. But SBMM ignore this, and instead the second is believed to have made the better play, and to have been the more skilled. Because they won one chase, compared to the 10+ needed in the first example.
Ranking skill based off of kills/escapes makes no sense at all. At least call it what it is- kill-based matchmaking- instead of trying to pass it off as skill.
And remember, it took them 2 years to devise a system more flawed than the Victory Cube of all things.
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And so if someone manages to get more hooks you'd say they were more skillful than someone who could not, correct?
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You're still flirting around the issue with your waffling explanations that don't bear any resemblance to actual logic (i.e. with propositions and conclusions, i.e. the sort of stuff that can be made into an algorithm).
Until you actually understand the rules of logic, and algorithms in general, you might want to hold off making judgements on the matter.
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I have yet to see you actively disprove any of my points and explain why, when I've directly addressed my criticisms with the system and why I believe it is fundamentally flawed, quite clearly several times.
Either actually a make a point, disprove one of mine, or get off of my thread.
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Seeing how the Killer only got 3 hooks maximum my wild guess is this Nemesis facecamped or just got looped for an absurd amount of gens and now he is facecamping the last one he managed to get before they could open the Exit Gates.
Either case he is showing an amazing display of skill, almost reminds me of Slayers_boxer on Brood War... almost.
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I see this Nemesis player knows how to win at Hockey
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I dunno because this game is unbalanced mess. Lots of factors to consider.
If it is the same situation, I still wouldn't know. What if someone does something clever to defeat their opponent without hooking them much? Is hooking always a more skilled play?
Don't get me wrong I definitely think that kills/escape is flawed a lot. But I am not sure if downing and hooking people is always more skillful than doing something else.
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Chased me for a gen, changed targets to Claudette who ran him for a further 2 before she went down. Facecamped at 2 gens left, Steve farmed her and he tunneled, understandably. I get a flashlight save, she gets away and I get to 50% on a different gen before she goes down. Try to take hits but it doesn't work, she gets hooked and as he's camping she gives up on hook.
During her second hook, I was blessing a totem and healing nearby. Knowing the other 2 were on a gen, I got his attention, and ran him for a further 2 gens on... Literally the Preschool fence + downstairs basement. He had bamboozle, btw. Cheryl 99's a gate, Steve opens his so Cheryl follows suit. As I'm running to hers, Steve appears and sandbags me and down I go onto a hook, where I'm promptly facecamped. Queue this screenshot.
The other 2 got out, thankfully.
But yeah- none of that matters. My decision making, save, looping, Claudette giving up (fair enough at that point tbh), Steve sandbagging, etc.
Him and Nemesis were simply more skilled according to SBMM. Which, you know, makes total sense.
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I don't need to disprove a point you've not made with any coherence. I've literally exposed the flaw in your logic in the most basic form possible, and asked for your clarification on the matter. Thus far you've refused to provide anything of the sort and have just resorted to a variety of logical fallacies that only highlight your ignorance on such matters.
It's a simple enough question... do you believe that a killer who achieved their objective (in your case) should face easier survivors so they can continue killing them (and thus go against easier opponents again), whilst you - even though you died and failed as a survivor (in a clinical sense) - should go against more adept killers, where you'd likely continue to die? Make that make sense. That's literally what you're arguing for, and if you can't make it make sense, then that should be cause for reflection.
"get off of my thread"
Last I checked, you don't own threads, nor have any authority to dictate who may or may not engage. It's a public forum. If you don't like it, or you don't like your opinion being challenged, don't post.
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Trying to determine skill with a single metric is a horrible system. How you can't see that is beyond me.
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When I read your post, all I could hear in my mind was the quote from Patrick where he was like
"Man i did 80 gens, did 6 totems, looped the killer for ages but died... wouldn't it be cool to be able to do all that and escape too?" That's not 100% the quote but that's basically the gist and man what a quote
not a great way for him to approach the subject of MMR/SBMM
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That's a future Stanley cup winner right there.
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That a winner right there
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lol get lost, you're a clown
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What I don't understand is how mmr and pips aren't like, related. One would think that doing well in all categories and trying to do everything to win/contribute towards winning would be comparable to the mmr but no.
That one devs opinion comparing dbd to hockey still just makes no sense because dbd is an asymmetrical 4 v 1 and hockey is literally a team vs team game like child.. I just don't understand it at all 😭
Killers should be incentivized to go and do everything for maximum mmr / pip gains not just farm for hook states/kills to guarantee mmr. Survivors should be incentivized to do a little bit of everything for maximum mmr/pip gains so that everyone is encouraged to be a team player and help each other survive instead of play overly selfish and go for hatch escape at the end. But yeah, here we are in a bad place with current mmr. Just face camp with dead lock and an end game build and you can do well with any killer 🤓
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Idk bbk. Sounds like you should of did bones.
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I am sure to some extent he HAS to be turning his camera ever so slightly to make sure he knows when they are coming for you.
THAT stare is just too on point. Too skilled for newbie eyes.
/s
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Shoudlve just mindgame better no doubt in that.
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Balance based on results neglect the gameplay experience.
Balance based on the gameplay produces an enjoyable experience despite the results.
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Beaten by a better player I see.
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I said it before, and i´ll say it again: the current mmr is like the old VC. Which was a terrible system to evaluate "skill".
On top of that, in an older stream about sbmmr, they explicitly said, that they tested an early version of the mmr with only kills vs escapes in mind and that it was terrible.
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Are you playing with ReShade? I dont understand why some of the icons are so pink and not red. I don't mean the HUD icons you swap.
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Just give him the Stanley Cup now
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Dammit, knew it was too easy, lol
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Logic does not work with people deeply indulged in shilling or being overly-positive. This person clearly believes SBMM is a healthy system that accurately portrays skill and doesn't seem to notice the glaring holes in their own logic and how a binary system is incapable of providing good results in a game where multiple metrics are manipulated by RNG.
There are just people out there that will call you crazy and say that the system is amazing despite the vast majority using statistics and evidence to prove why it doesn't work, the Devs themselves in their own quotes over the past 2 years don't even believe that it works but they invested into it so they have to play along to save face. I just had somebody tell me earlier that Legion is just as strong as any of the "A-Tier" killers and that the characters matter less than the player. Some people just don't get it
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I use colourblind filters because it helps me see things better
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"I could respond to you, but won't."
Right well thanks for letting me know I don't have to continue this conversation anymore, bye x
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This might be the first thing we've ever agreed on lmao
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Now that is a skilled play right there we should be taking notes on the skill that Nemesis is clearly showing
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Ohhhhhhhhh okay. Yeah, then I agree with you completely. Right now in the game you are rewarded more for letting your team die so you can escape, hiding, and not distracting the killer. Instead of knowing map layout, killer counters, object use, and timing.
And as Killer you can stomp a whole team hooking them all twice then letting them go just to stay in a low sbmm, while the only part of killer "skill" is dependent on random end game variables.
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I like your icons <3
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Thank you! They're the Toon Perk pack- I'd link them but I'm not allowed sadly lmao
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It's like you don't even play hockey.
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Caught red handed 😔💅
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If you want to change things in the game and end up ruining them in the process, was it really a skilled play to begin with?
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this is the new "pretty good job so far" and i'm all for it
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Is running a killer for 2 gens on Badham Preschool REALLY skilled? You have to be bad to go down early on Badham with all the busted structures, pallets, and the ol' Dead Hard
Killer is practically guaranteed to lose 2 gens at the first hook in this game
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