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Why Survivors Have Not More Anti-Camp & Anti-Tunnel Perks?

Question is on title.


BT & DS only viable perks against tunnelling & camping. And both perks released years ago. But killers takes different type perks for against generators with most of new chapters.


So would you like more perks for help against this strategies? Or they would make game more unfun for killerside? And do we really need more anti-camp and anti-tunnel perks? What do you think?

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Comments

  • KerJuice
    KerJuice Member Posts: 1,931

    Yea Kindred is very good, and Camaraderie is very underrated IMO. It’s helped me out a LOT in solo que. It gives my team more times to do gens when I have that one person who is nearby but too scared to go for a save (rightfully so), and too green to realize they really should be on a gen. At least it gives the other two survivors get value. Then during endgame my team has time to heal and find each other because i also have kindred on that build. Worked out a few times for everyone to escape.

    Question, does any one know if Camaraderie gives your teammates the walki-talkie icon to let them know it’s active, if they’re close by?

  • OpenX
    OpenX Member Posts: 890

    No; kinship gives no indication it is working to your team. It is strong enough it's used in tournaments but really needs a SWF to get the most out of it.

    The strat there is if the killer is camping a survivor to death 1 person just swings by and activates it, then the team secures another 3 gens for the kill.

  • KerJuice
    KerJuice Member Posts: 1,931

    Oh ok thanks. Thats too bad it doesn’t show up to let your teammate know. So one player doesn’t need to stay? They just need to run by, activate, and hop on a gen?

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,550

    "What we should do is nerf your OP tactics while leaving mine untouched, that'll make things balanced"

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    Kindred is not good. It is info perk. And SWF already has this info and they don't need to use Kindred for it. Kindred is one of the band-aids.

  • OpenX
    OpenX Member Posts: 890

    Yeah a survivor can just get into range, activate it, then leave. That's exactly what they do when the killer is someone you can't save from. But still, in solo Q it's not going to help that much. You need the coordination for other people to be slamming gens while it's active for it to be any good.

    BT/DS/Kinship/Exhaustion perk would be a great anti-tunnel build on a few members of a SWF. The killer will absolutely get punished with losing the game sometimes off those perks if you are of equal skill to them.

    It's so strong that's banned in the tournaments too, at least from being used multiple times. The game is balanced for solo.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,550

    I just really dislike the attitude of 'just buff killers to not need camping/tunnelling'. if killers don't need those tactics, they absolutely need to be gutted.

    They're also possibly bad balance points, because overall statistics show a kill rate above 50%. If non-tunnelling and non-camping is so unviable, that means that tunnelling and camping are pulling the numbers up, which likely means they're overpowered.

    Overall, the game needs a balancing reset by crippling unfun strategies on both sides, like flashlight save bullying, BNPs, tunnelling and camping.

  • KerJuice
    KerJuice Member Posts: 1,931

    Ok thanks.

    I may not get full value from Kinship (ugh not a fan of the ST DLC Perk name changes at all), but it has saved me a lot. When it came through, it shined really well. Even when I die. I’m just glad when the other 3 make it out.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,461

    Last time I checked, Cama gives no clear indication to teammates that it's active or that the hooked player even has it to begin with. Just another way the game screws over solo players. Why? Who knows.

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  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,550

    The average kill rate stats are useless. They take everything into account, from little Timmy who just got the game, to Hex: Virginity who played the game since beta non-stop and has over 12000 hours. Most players are around Timmy, somewhat higher, and people don't know how to counter tunneling and camping over there. We don't need the game to cater to the people who don't know how to play the game.

    All of that is conjecture though.

    And it also isn't a solid argument against any balance decisions derived from it. Balancing decisions must take into account the average match that occurs when an average player hits 'play'. Top-down balancing can have crippling impacts on the game outside of that narrow niche of players.

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762

    Average killer players are getting dunked on every two matches, it means survivors should be nerfed hard?

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    Did i said anything about my skills? Or did i said i need this perks? This is forum and "normal" people discuss here for game healthy, perks, balance etc.

    So maybe you get good at how to talk with people. Clearly you are not good with that.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
    edited February 2022

    I am not complaining about anything here. I asked question to people. You looks like have serious problems and i will leave you with them.

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • chargernick85
    chargernick85 Member Posts: 3,171

    I had a blast yesterday running Guardian, BT, WMI, Windows (to help myself), with a flashlight. Huntress tried to kill this D. King the entire game and our solo lobby cranked gens. I was the only one who tried to save both times attaching Guardian and BT to him to give a fighting chance (longer he stays up = more time on gens) and ######### you not he made it out with a 3 man body block to the gate. Those are the games that make survivor fun....team work that succeeds. Even got a lovely message from King "I would die for you" GG thank you.

  • thrawn3054
    thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,897

    If they consistently need those things that's an issue with their skill.

  • thrawn3054
    thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,897

    Most players aren't that skilled. So yes, alot of them would lose without those things because they never developed beyond that. Of course that can easily go for survivors who can't do well without DH and old DS.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,550

    Are you pulling a 50% winrate out of thin air and saying that means it's UP?

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    Who's talking about Killer players? I'm saying Killers themselves can't win without camping and tunneling. Nurse and Blight might be the only exceptions

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  • thrawn3054
    thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,897

    Whereas I think the weakness of alot of killers is massively overstated.

  • deKlaw_04
    deKlaw_04 Member Posts: 3,660
    edited February 2022

    Even if you did, it wouldn’t stop the basement bubbas or this. Would just make it easier for them


  • CrashMADDS13
    CrashMADDS13 Member Posts: 302

    There's plenty of anti camping and anti tunneling perks. Take fewer meta perks and fill your build with guardian kinship and kindred if you have to

  • Hektic3000
    Hektic3000 Member Posts: 674

    Survivors don't need more anti-camp/tunnel perks than they already have. Players must accept that even if they personally don't like these tactics its a part of the game. Like I get that being camped sucks but what else do you expect the killer to do? Not everyone is gonna make it out just because you want them to. Wanting more anti tunnel/camp perks is just saying that you don't want the killer to every have any kind of advantage and want easy escapes.

  • GoshJosh
    GoshJosh Member Posts: 4,992

    I don’t think the issue is not having enough of these, but rather making the ones we have actually worthwhile. Looking at you, Camaraderie.

  • CyberDragoon656
    CyberDragoon656 Member Posts: 960

    Cause they don't need any more.

  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108

    Survivors already have 30+ second chance perks

  • SuzuKR
    SuzuKR Member Posts: 3,910

    This is actually a very simple answer. There aren’t more, because there is not supposed to be a counter to those strategies from perks alone. The counterplay is meant to be done through smart gameplay of the other survivors.

    If someone is being camped/tunneled, the other survivors who are being pressured absolutely zero power out the generators. Also things like taking Protection Hits/hook trades as necessary to further waste the killer’s time.

    Perks like BT/DS are meant to de-incentivize it by making the killer have to waste some time to do those strategies recklessly, thus making it not worth it against good survivors unless there’s a specific situational benefit from doing it. They are not meant to hard counter it, and were never meant to.

  • ObservantOfTime
    ObservantOfTime Member Posts: 209

    Do you want all killers to leave?

    Yes. The ones who piss and moan about anti-tunneling and camping perks can vanish into thin air for all I care.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    So you don't want to be able to play the game anymore?

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    Nemesis is doing his own job, it was your mistake to dare play as Jill against him.

  • deKlaw_04
    deKlaw_04 Member Posts: 3,660

    nemesis players are weird. They either give me hatch because I’m Jill or they tunnel and camp me out of the game because I’m a Jill. No consistency lmao

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,577

    This may be an unpopular opinion but hard tunneling and camping is a trap. It allows people in the short term to 3 or 4K more but that places you against people who are more likely to escape (ergo your matches get sweatier). In the long term, you end up in matches you have to tunnel and camp in because otherwise you would get stomped.

    I avoid tunneling and camping and I get escapes in games I could have had kills but my games are pretty chill overall. Also, the level of survivor toxicity I see has diminished greatly from before MMR (possibly since there are now more people tunneling and camping so a killer that doesn't is more noticeable). I still get toxicity at times but it's far less.

    I don't care about gaining in MMR though and actually view rising quickly in MMR in this game to be a punishment. I care far more about pips which gives me more BP and is something I can actually see.

    Also, the part which makes my position more viable for me is that I don't derive the majority of my fun from winning. For the people who do, the current state of killer is abysmal. Also in my opinion, Otz was completely correct when he said this game is balanced if you use the dirtiest tactics. However, those tactics imply doing something that diminishes fun for the other side.

    Overall, I think the best thing would be for BHVR to make facecamping and tunneling really difficult and, at the same time, buff Killers enough that people won't need to camp and tunnel to win.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564

    If they are giving you hatch, they are not real Nemesis. Real Nemesis know they have to destroy STARS.

  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358

    Most of the people who camp do it out of spite imo, your time could be used elsewhere pressuring gens, I understand it's situational, but I guess it's just for me I've just never done it, I've always felt like my time is well spent elsewhere

    Can't really say the same for tunneling because while they might do it out of spite, it's less noticeable i feel, idk, not trying to come off rude, just my take

  • deKlaw_04
    deKlaw_04 Member Posts: 3,660

    I’m not a real nemesis either lmao. I meme around with the Jill’s