Question to the VETERAN/EXPERT players: what do you think of the CURRENT balancement state of Dbd?
This post has the purpose of collecting the opinions of veteran/expert Dbd players that have been playing Dbd for a lot of time, and that preferably have been playing both sides of the game (survivor and killer) constantly up to now (or 3 months of absence max), about the current balancement state of dbd. So, if you've been playing dbd just for a bit/are a new player, or are still learning but don't feel confident enough, please tell us how confident you feel playing both sides and your number of hours so we can see and confrontate the different opinions comparing the hours and the knowledge of each other. ALso everybody, if you can please share how many hours you have in total or how many hours experience you gained watching content creators would be much appreciated :D
So, I've been wanting to create a thread like this for a very long time, but I wanted to wait until the new DLC came out, so we have a lot of time to confrontate the different opinions and discuss interesting things until the mid chapter patch comes out. I hope this thread will achieve a lot of opinions during the course of a month, and will stay alive for a very long time!
So, talking about the balancement of Dbd is a VERY COMPLEX MATTER, no doubt, and we gotta set a definition of what we're talking about and DON'T TAKE AND EDGE CASE ONLY. Yes, they're important, but they're not THE ENTIRE GAME.
If you have any doubt about anything here's the Dbd wiki:
7 are the big categories that determine the balancement of the game:
- Killers with their respective powers, and there are 27 killers in total right now. Survivors apart from changes to the loudness of the grunts of pain(with Ace and others being harder to hear, and instead Jane and Jeff and other being very loud, and others like Jake and Laurie being a mix because they have inconsistent breathing and are very good against Spirit) and stealth visibility cosmetics (and female survivors being smaller usually), can all be considered skins, so don't matter.
- Perks
- Maps(realms)
- Items
- Add-ons (both sides)
- Offerings
- RNG/luck. With this it's included things as a corner of the map being full of pallets or a complete dead zone, thing that can completely turn the game around, especially against some killers like Bubba or Billy; the luck mechanic, survivor spawns, totem visibility and spawns, hook spawns, etc.
I think that, after 4 years, everybody can retain the @marth88gaming Depip squad experiments OUTDATED, because TOO MANY THINGS PASSED SINCE MARCH 2018. Almost all maps got reworked, a lot of killers got buffed and reworked; BNPS, Instaheals, Toolboxes, Mories, and many other GAME CHANGING things have been completely reworked, and other game changing perks like Corrupt Intervention, Pain Resonance, Ruin, Undying, Dead Man's Switch, Deadlock have been introduced/reworked, and many maps with infinites/god windows EXPLOITS (as the devs themselves called it. I'm not joking, they declared them exploits when they started reworking all the maps in 2019/2020) have been reworked. Decisive strike was a completely different game changing perk back than (even now, and thank god it and borrowed time exist otherwise why not just tunneling 1 survivor always to win much more often), so that's why you have to be up to date.
To consider the balancement of the game, we gotta aknowledge that the win condition is actually, as SBMM/MMR declared it, killing and escaping, and consider the survivors as a team. So if 4/3 survivors escaped the survivors won, if 2 escaped it's a tie, if just 1 escaped or nobody survived the killer won.
Now, and this is why I need veteran/expert players, and if possible even competitive players if there is any, we need to consider the survivors being, other than as efficient as possible, in full voice communication, able to callout positions on the map with a clock system as competitive players do. Like when playing chess, a rule that is kinda implicit is that YOU GOTTA TAKE FOR GRANTED THE OPPONENT WILL ALWAYS DO THE MOST EFFECTIVE THING, so don't hope that survivors will be in a lack of communication because that's not a reliable way to balance the game around.
With this in mind,
I'd like you to talk and consider as much as possible about the balancement of the game considering as many cases as possible, and both sides always balanced. If for example you wanna consider the Nurse with no perks or add-ons, you gotta also consider the survivors with no perks and no add-ons and items. Or if you wanna consider a Nurse with 3 blinks and recharge + Starstruck you also gotta consider the survivors with the best perks, offerings and add-ons combinations. If you're playing the worst killer but with the best possible build, you still gotta consider the survivors with the best stuff combined. Etc, I hope you understood the concept. Still, include the edge cases, because not all edge cases have a counter, or have the proper organisation available every match.
So, try to consider the average if you wanna put all killers together for example, and discuss as much as possible about individual killers/perks/etc in a profound way, SO PLEASE NO THINGS LIKE "KILLERS ARE OP", OR "SURVIVORS ARE OP", because we all know that there are scenarios where these statements are definitely not true.
To conclude and sum it up, consider killers and survivors playing as efficient as they can in all cases, so no archives or side objectives, and completely exclude the fun factor, so if a killer like Pyramid head is super good at tunneling 1 survivor out of the game due to its power you gotta consider it.
please share your opinions if you're a veteran/expert, let's have a good discussion!
Comments
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I've been playing Dbd since Jenuary 2017 with 2700 hours, and I've been watching it since 2016, and I've got 2/3k hours of experience just from watching Youtube videos and Twitch streams and tournaments. I've never farmed hours in game, so that's my legit number of hours.
I'd like to write a lot about the balancement of the game, but right now I'm tired so I'll write about the balancement state of the game soon.
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I have played Dbd since December 2016. it amounts to 4300hours. Things are honestly pretty good atm.
Sure we have some Killers who are a lil too addon dependent, we have face camping which will probably get some changes, Dead Hard maybe too, DS isnt abusive anymore, I like that BHVR is updating their old perks now more and they are experimenting with new mechanics such as boons.
Honestly its never been better.
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Hey, I'll be writing this post in parts so please forgive any continuity errors or repetition.
I've been playing DBD since Nov 2017 and have around 3.7k hours across all of my accounts. I think this makes me veteran enough to answer this post.
To put it bluntly, the absolutely best 4 survivors, who are fully coordinated and decked out with the most overpowered things, will always escape vs the best killer, who is fully decked out with the most overpowered things. Obviously this can hinge on a lot of RNG, so I'll quickly lay out what I believe the best things are.
As survivor, you want 2x COH and 2x PT. You want 2x BT and 2x Unbreakable. 4x DS and 4x either SB or DH. Commodious Toolboxes w/ Socket Swivel + Wire Spool, or a Ranger Medkit w/ Gel Dressings and Medical Scissors.
As killer, I think it would obviously be The Nurse, using the purple Blink Range add-on and green Blink Recharge add-on. Perks would most likely be Hex: Ruin, Deadlock, Tinkerer, and Infectious Fright (though I admit I don't know enough about the best Nurse loadouts ever so it's possible that they could use, say, Sloppy or Undying or Knock Out or something).
Maps are entirely randomised, which they aren't in tournaments but we're on about public games here. Therefore, as an example of RNG demolishing any form of accurate balance statement, the above survivor team on Lerys or Rotten Fields would perform significantly better than if Midwich or Saloon was the map, which instead would substantially favour the Nurse player.
Overall though, if both sides take the sweatiest ######### and are equally skilled and the survivors are coordinated, they will always win. Hands down.
However.
This is a rare occurrence. Tournaments have many many restrictions on perks, addons, killers, items, etc preventing players from going entirely decked out, and they attempt to minimise RNG as a factor wherever possible. In public games, this actually happening is incredibly unlikely and so the game will feel a lot more balanced than the edge case scenario mentioned above. With every possible perk loadout variation, survivor playstyle, killer playstyle, tile spawn, etc it's impossible to look at each individual scenario, hence why I've made a sweeping statement which has it's exceptions and yet is generally correct.
Were SBMM functional, and based off of an accurate measurement of in-game skill and ability, I feel like the edge case mentioned above would be a lot more common. Thankfully, it isn't, and so the game will always feel more balanced than it is because both sides will not be bringing the best things. That doesn't change the fact, though, that the game is unbalanced at the highest possible level in the survivor's favour, and this does trickle down to the rest of the game, with perks like COH and PT being some of the worst offenders. In order to make DBD a more balanced experience, the strongest things on both sides need to be hit, and weaker things buffed, it's just that when played at maximum efficiency survivors have more of these things. Reduced RNG and nerfs to the strongest perks would, imho, go a long way to making the game more balanced. Toss in some solo queue buffs and killer mechanic buffs to compensate, maybe dash in a sprinkling of item hits (like Medkits, they need to be hit too. COH has shown how absurdly OP healing yourself in this game is) and the game will be a lot better.
And yes, I will continue to advocate for choice restrictions ✨. If nerfs aren't wanted, then limit what can be combined, so you can have really OP things on both sides but they can't be brought together to create the super duper OP as all hell builds that could be made.
And if I'm being honest, we're past the worst the balance has ever been imho. That would be Jan 2020, right after they hit Ruin and before we had Toolbox nerfs. That, and basically mid-2018 and before, were worse for balance imho.
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I realize that VETERAN/EXPERT is in ALL CAPS, and I don't claim to be that, but I'm going to answer anyway. (I do have over 1000 hours; have been playing for a year and a half, I think - didn't actually check, but it's around that.)
The balance is fine.
The game is slightly (more than slightly) survivor-sided when both sides go full meta, but you can't really do much about that without screwing solo survivors, because the only solution would be to nerf survivors in general. It needs to be fair to solo queue players. This is also balanced out by the fact that we have Nurse, who is both extremely difficult to play and also nearly impossible to win against if you find yourself up against a good one.
I think that a lot of the things killer mains complain about (DH, Spine Chill, new DS, etc.) can be annoying as a killer main, but they don't completely wreck the balance of the game. The one thing I have noticed so far that did fundamentally change the balance of the game is CoH, which is legitimately overpowered, but sometimes the newer killer perks get overlooked - I think people are just now starting to realize how powerful Pentimento can be, and Brine is a manual Ruin/Surveillance that stacks with Pop and can't be turned off.
You have to earn Brine with kicks and Pentimento can be easily turned off since Survivors are going to know exactly where it spawned, but that's balance, and as long as we can keep those perks in their current form, I'll stop complaining about CoH.
I think a lot of people have some very wrong ideas about certain maps. I tend to 4K a majority of my games as killer on Gideon's and die in three-fouths of my games there as a survivor, and RPD is a killer-sided map depending on who you're playing. (Michael and Ghostface are a guaranteed win, and I'd imagine Nurse and Blight have some trouble.) It seems like the devs are trying to make the maps as balanced as possible over time with changes and reworks, but I'd honestly rather have a couple of maps that are extremely killer-sided and a couple of maps that are harder to get kills on. Makes the game more fun.
Luck as a mechanic is completely useless, and there are a ton of offerings for it for no reason that nobody ever uses. Yeah, if you are in a SWF and run all Luck-based/unhook-based perks and addons, you're guaranteed an escape on the first hook, and then the killer comes back and downs you immediately because they only got 15m away and now you're on deathhook with no perks.
If there are going to be Luck offerings, it needs to do something other than affect unhook chances. Item rarity would be awesome.
Sadako needs a buff. I know I said that Nemesis needed a buff when he came out, but I meant that it would be nice if Nemesis had a buff. In Sadako's case, I mean Sadako needs a buff.
Stay tuned for more 10-paragraph rants as I think of them.
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I have played DBD since 2016. I don't remember the exact month that I started, but I have in that time accumulated about 2,700 hours, with a long break from the game relatively recently, but I'm coming back to it now. I've played both sides extensively, although I probably lean a little more towards killer games. (60-40)
I think the one thing that stands out to me in any model trying to say that 2 kills 2 escapes is the desired outcome is the fact that the exit gates MUST be powered in order for more than 1 person to escape. Because of the extremely weak endgame potential of most killers without end game perks, I feel like in most games when the gates are powered survivors can almost always secure having everyone escape minus the one person who is initially chased, if there is one. (Living - distraction = survived)
The thing is I've had games as killer where I get absolutely destroyed, gates are 99'ed in minutes and I get away with a 3-4k because the survivors started acting like goons. But I don't feel like that's a win. I don't want to win because the other side hands it in my lap. (E.g. survivors hook farm, killer is friendly, etc) I want to have genuinely fun games and good interactions between players. I've had games where I barely miss a survivors at the exit gates and I slam my head on my desk in frustration and get a 1k, and I've had games where I barely miss a survivor at the exit gates and I grin and say gg well played. The fun that I have in the match isn't always tied to the outcome.
Rather than even see balance in the game, I'd like to see it be less frustrating for killers, and more consistent for survivors. I would rather get a 1k where I had a great time and made some friends than a 4k where I crushed everyone, or even a 2k that was a "balanced game." If the game was just fun to play, I'd enjoy it more, winning or losing.
TL;DR - Rather than balancing the game until its a 2k every time, they should make killer less frustrating and survivor a more consistent experience.
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Oh, reading Karu's post just reminded me that I meant to address SBMM: I might be in the minority, but I like it. The emblems system was too easy to game with a weaker killer like Legion, while some objectively much better killers would struggle. It also meant that facecampers and sluggers (even very good ones) could stay in the lower ranks and make life hell for new players.
There was a point where I was either getting games against a bunch of brown-tier newbies or a fully-decked bully squad that could run rings around me, but now that the dust has settled, I usually find that I have a chance of winning, but I feel challenged, and my skills are improving. I still tend to lose against highly coordinated teams, but I feel like that's just the nature of the game (and I win against them sometimes, too).
Basing matchmaking around kills is just the most logical way to do things, and it makes it fairer for everyone. I think a lot of the complaining about it has to do partially with the initial confusion the system gets thrown into when you start playing a new killer (or survivor in general) since it doesn't know where to put you for the first couple hundred games and partially to do with the fact that matchmaking will ignore your skill level altogether when trying to fill spaces for lobbies where players dodged (BHVR says they're working on this).
(I still think that Adept Killer achievements are way too hard when compared to Adept Survivor achievements, which are a breeze.)
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As someone that knows this game since May 2016 and plays since December 2016, I consider myself a veteran.
From my point of view, killer is currently in a pretty bad spot due to COH. Prior to it, you could hit and run to ensure that gens go by slowly. However, with the additon of COH, hit and run has been made useless, therefore forcing you onto chasing someone down. However, with the current state of the game, that will cost you 2-3 gens.
MMR doesn't make things better either.
Survivor, on the other hand, can be really unfun in solo q and way too strong in SWF.
Balance wise, killers may have been in a worse spot during 2016 and 2017, but it really feels like in our current era, you either play the strongest killers and sweat, or you just get a 0k.
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Been playing since 2016 with some pauses. 2900something hours. Playing both sides more or less equally.
Solo survivor is in a great spot right now. Not only because of the hud and all the status affects that which affect you, are displayed. But because someone always has CoH equipped. Which leaves more room for different builds/playstyles. Also the change of Kindred really helps your teammates.
Since every match has the obsession "tentacles" enabled, equipping DS doesn't feel like a must have per team.
Things that need to change for survivors:
- voice chat = we need a ingame version for solos. Or at least a communication wheel, with pre selected voice lines for better communication. It's the only way to balance around external voice chat.
- hook suicides = people switched from disconnecting to suiciding on the first hook. This should be penalized, just like disconnects. Because it ruins the match for everyone else.
- item trade = it should be possible to change items/addons/offerings between your own characters. Often I have something that I need on a different char, who doesn't has the perks I need. So they just feel wasted.
Killer is a little rough to say the least. Sure, BNP are not what they used to be. Just like moris, which used to have no hook requirements.
Killers in general lack a certain variety in regard of their builds. Not because of the perks, but more because of the addons. Myers and Hag aren't exactly top tier killers. Yet, they offer something no other killer can offer: addons that completely change the way they play. I think, all killers should have the option to completely change their playstyle with addons.
In fact, I evaluate killers on how they perform without addons. Since no killer should be forced to use a certain addon combo to play at all. Addons should only be used to change how a killer plays.
Now on why I think that killer is in a rough spot. Playing without gen slowdown perks is extremely risky. Because even if the killer has a extremely good start, with slowdown perks he'll probably lose all gens, based on how little a kick does to a gen. Btw, why does a killer go through a full animation for kicking, while a survivor can tap a gen mid chase?! Anyway, during a q&a, the devs once said, that players shouldn't feel forced to equip certain perks. Yet here we are, where killers feel obligated to equip between 2 and 4 slowdown perks.
Ruin supposedly was changed to a "endgame" perk. Yet it's a miracle if it survives the early game. Unless the killer bases his whole build around protecting ruin. Now with the new killer, I feel that Call of Brine will make Ruin obsolete. Since it synergizes better with Pop.
Undying was in a perfect spot, when it was originally released. The argument for it's nerf became kinda ridiculous, with the release of Boons. Returning it back to it's original state wouldn't hurt the game.
Things that need to change for killers:
- totem spawns = most of the spawns are ridiculous easy to find. Since they appear next to gens or at survivor spawn locations.
- secondaryobjective = while the overall gen speed hasn't changed in the last years, it's undeniable that survivors have gotten better at completing gens. Which puts the killer under pressure, when it should be the other way around. Survivors need something else to do. Gas cans, repair parts, etc. Things that slowdown the pace of the game without slapping XX seconds on top of a gen.
- addons = survivors have several perks that help them getting items and addons during a match, which they can take home for the next match. Killers should get something similar, that allows to get and keep addons during a match.
- Overall balance: the game shouldn't be balanced around kills or hook stages. But instead for actual hooks. A killer who got 9 hooks and 1 kill, will look far worse on paper than a killer who got 3 kills with 3 hooks in total.
Changes for both sides:
- the grind = remove the bloodpoint limit. Both the match limit of 8k per category and the million bloodpoint limit. Let people play how they want. Someone who kept the killer busy for 5 gens can easily end up with under 10k bloodpoints, because he hit the maximum. This system is obsolete, from an era where the bloodpoints determined if someone piped.
- perk tiers = should be removed. A new player will get scared away, when he finds out that he needs over 1k hours to unlock most of the stuff. With the catch, that by the time he unlocked it, a dozen new perks had been released.
- endgame perks = should be far stronger for both sides. After all, they are wasted perk slots, for the better part of the match and might not even get to used. Because the game ends earlier.
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I don't know if I'm qualified to answer. I do have well over 5K hours spread across multiple platforms but I've only been here since early 2018, is that sufficient?
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Depends what you call a veteran,I play since early 2020 and I have over 1.5k hours in the game.
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I agree with almost everything you said, but voice chat for solo is a horrible idea.
For one, it would make every game an SWF game. I get that SWFs are a thing and facing them is unavoidable, but playing against one seriously ######### with the game balance in favor of the survivors, and we'd need a whole range of general survivor nerfs across the board to compensate.
Of course, thankfully, that'll never happen, not with this community. BHVR wouldn't dare. You just know somebody would be screaming racial slurs at the top of his lungs all game every other game, and they'd have no way to police it. It'd cause so many problems that it'd just be gone immediately if they ever added such a feature.
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Just here to see if anyone calls themselves an expert, lulw
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Thats why i also proposed a communication wheel (or what the name of that thing is). With a dozen pre selected messages, we could perfectly communicate with our teammates.
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Nearly 4000 hours. About 2 years of comp experience.
The balance is a complicated issue. It's impossible to make a huge blanket statement about the balance of DbD in a public match setting. There's too much RNG, too many rock paper scissors interactions with perks and powers, and matchmaking is horrendous even after SBMM was implemented.
Public matches boil down to who brought the more broken things and whether or not matchmaking made any attempt to keep the lobby skill-based vs queue time based. If there's any queue imbalance at all and the survivors are solo, there's going to be at least one survivor who will make the game completely unwinnable for the team. They will be absolutely awful and throw the game. It will happen. If it's a decently obvious 4 man SWF, the first killer or two will dodge and the lobby will backfill a completely overmatched killer. The game will be an easy 4 out. The matchmaking is so genuinely atrocious right now that it's hard to gauge the balance in a public match. I don't know what they were thinking releasing a system predicated on role population balance 6 months before they have any solution to maintain role population balance. It's peak BHVR management.
If we assume that matchmaking actually made a quality match, then like I said, it's a contest of which side brought more broken things and which map was selected. In lieu of accepting a natural player skill gap in an aging PVP game, the devs are releasing skill band aids for both sides at an alarming rate. CoH means you need zero game sense or teammate awareness. Pain Resonance/DMS gives a laughable amount of slowdown and tracking for little input. Both roles have a ton of mostly passive training wheel perks, and they're strong.
Comp isn't necessarily a great measuring stick for overall game balance. The comms, coordination, and killer play are so far and away better than 99% of normal gameplay that heavy restrictions have to be in place for both roles. People always bring up the survivor perk restrictions, but killers have restrictions as well. You can't run range on Nurse. No MDR/Cherry Blossom on Spirit. No Top Knot for Oni. No Alchemist's Ring for Blight. No NOED/No Way Out. Deadlock is heavily restricted. This circles back to my first two points: both sides have so many broken things in the hands of skilled players.
A regular game comes down to which side brought the more busted perks/add ons or map offering.
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Playing since April 2018 - The game is in a really unhealthy state overall.
- Both sides are incredibly boring to play.
- MMR is making this game more and more stale every single day that passes.
- Solo survivor is still embarrassingly weak.
- Very very very stale meta.
- Killers hard tunnel every single match now, even DS is useless now.
- Killers hard camp every single match now, and even with BT they just hard tunnel.
- Boring to go against strong anti-loop killers.
- The whole "killer is hard" mantra.
- I'm seeing a lot of toxicity end-game chats, almost every game.
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@Leonardo1ita community in general? Or the state of the game? Or both?
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Followed the game since release started playing in September 8th of 2018 when I got my first Desktop that could run it I have over 4,190 hours in the game mostly on the Killer side but I do play Survivor as well more so since MMR was added.
- Killer is insanely stressful due to the advantages that Survivors are given.
- Solo Survivor is awful to the point you have to SWF in order to have fun as you are paired with Survivors who I'm shocked still aren't stuck in the tutorial of the game.
- MMR is just not what a casual game needs nor is it working.
- Core Game issues need to be addressed instead of bandaid perks being added.
- BT should be basekit tired of being farmed by randoms who refuse to run BT.
- Something to disincentivize camping,tunneling and slugging while they're tactics Killers shouldn't have to enforce these to win.
- More Killer variety/Perk variety it's boring seeing the same 3 Killers played Nurse,Blight,Huntress because all the other options can't compete. Perk variety is also a problem it's the same Survivor perks used and the same boring Killer perks to slow gens used.
Post edited by MonsterInMyMind on3 -
I play since launch, the game is not balanced and not fun anymore, unless you are playing survivor, its just frustration and toxicity, whenever someone asks me if they should play DbD i tell them to "go play something else, try Civ. IV, i heard its a great game"...
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2.5k hours here. Actually just uninstalled the game today. No game should tilt you or make your blood boil and this game absolutely does. I'm going to lay out what I think about balance as follows:
Balancing in DBD for multiple years now has been completely artificial. Band-aids really without addressing any of the real problems. One of the biggest tells here is the use of meta perks that both sides use to feel they even remotely have a fighting chance. There is no existing casual gameplay to DBD. For instance: Ruin/Undying/Pain Resonance/Pop on Spirit/Nurse/Blight/Pinhead/Artist/Nemesis...etc... Don't blame killers for running these though. Gen speed is a problem and instead of reworking core gameplay it's "bandaided" with perks creating the "meta". But if you're say a solo survivor, dealing with this EVERY SINGLE GAME is exhausting and unfun. These types of builds are not balanced for a solo q experience, especially when SBMM is so broken that 2k+hour survivors get paired with 3 other <20 hour potatoes who can't contribute to countering these builds. When you try to buff killers to make them more viable to go against SWF, you completely break solo Q(at least with the current state of match making). But if you try to balance out solo q, then you inherently buff SWF making killers even more miserable against coordinated groups.
There are perks to counter perks, and perks to counter gameplay styles and it's honestly just way too much. Things like BT/DS/UB shouldn't need to exist to simply artificially help with tunneling and camping. The core gameplay should be fixed where these types of "tactics"(honestly, lack there of) make such little impact that perks like these aren't needed. It feels terrible when you're like "oh I'm not going to bring DS this time" then immediately get tunneled out of your next match thinking "well, i'm never not bringing DS again". Or going against a facecamper and having BT. The existence of these perks also punish killers who do not use these "tactics" and it's not fair to them. Or like I mentioned above, killer perks to slow down gen speeds because the core gameplay is just rotten. So we have this never ending cycle of meta perks on both sides.
Then there's certain iri addons(i'm talking both killers and survivors). Let's not call them ultra-rare, because they aren't. If you have any p3 character, you're getting iri's at least every 3 bloodwebs. This is not "ultra-rare" in the slightest and some are just insanely powerful that tilt favor in one direction or another far too much to be as common as they are. But again, these types of addons only exist to artificially show balance.
Then there's maps of course. Maps are one of the most unbalanced things in the game. Maps are far too heavily dependent on who the killer is. Then you have maps like The Game, which is disgustingly littered with VERY strong pallets(I would say it is the most survivor sided map in the game) versus large outdoor maps that are full of deadzones with generators in them artificially giving killers "free hits" or downs in those areas that reflect neither the killer or survivors skill.
All in all, I think the game is just so poorly designed from it's objectives, to it's ranking, to it's SBMM all the way down to it's gameplay. The only reason I personally feel DBD has a player base still is because there is no competition. I mean, VHS is coming out soon, but I can't speak on it because I've never played it.
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Great, pretty damn detailed, good job Karu! I really wonder why aren't you a trusted member of the forums after so many useful comments and activity, when members that are very little active keep their trusted status.
I agree with everything you said pretty much, and considering tournaments, they limit what the game actually is. Like if everyone could use 4 Giant toolboxes with 4 BNPS and 12 charges with streetwise in tournaments, or 4 ranger medkits with max charges with lucky break overcome why wouldn't they XD? Just the fact that CoH is not allowed in tournaments completely changes the stats by a huge amount, and it becomes almost a complete version of Dbd.
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Kills should be a proxy for skill due to killers ability to SNOWBALL (cancelled by perks like Circle of healing, unbreakable, medkits, etc), in practice most times, especially for killers that catch up or facecamp, the strongest thing to do becomes tunneling (and eating DS) and hard camping or facecamping, and bodyblocking hooks with your body to force a survivor to die/ go second stage.
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I disagree with this, some killers especially with Corrupt Intervention, DMS, and other perks and very strong add ons can at least guarantee 2 kills, even against super coordinated survivors with competitive coordination. The problem comes when you face toolboxes that can rush super fast, big medkits, syringes, Circle of Healing, Dead hards, lucky break + overcome. At that point you clearly start to lose control as Killer no matter how skilled you are.
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this is why i asked and did not make a statement
cant tell if im good or if my ego is
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Yeah it is sufficient, absolutely :D! Even having 1000 hours (1500 would be better, but 1000 is still ok) is ok.
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I disagree on 2 things:
- Solo Q is in a TERRIBLE spot. When you get tunneled or facecamped out of the game, that's it, you lose SBMM and your teammates might not even make it out. Also I just find bad if not VERY teammates a lot of games.
- Undying was rightly nerfed, RNG and luck based perks should not exist IMO. You could have haunted grounds trigger 4 times, and ruin 5 times until the last totem. It was HORRIBLE, come on.
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Yeah you're a veteran, tho maybe not an expert (I cannot know your skill, I'm not a wizard), provided you played consistently both sides up to now consistently.
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Voice chat (with bans for who slurs and harasses with it) would be great, because, I'm sorry for all Tru3ta1ent fans, the way here is bringing solos to premade groups level to close the game, not the other way around. Thing that exists in VHS and that Dbd devs are admiring.
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Very good analysis, thank you for your contribute, I wish there were more comp players in the forums! 😃
SBMM is be very good ONLY for 4 survivors communicating. Otherwise it's very bad for solos, because you still find bot teammates.
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I've had about 15 matches on both surv and killer recently as it try to return to DBD, I started in 2018. The game is very frustrating for me personally.
On survivor I had a better time but on Killer I was actually sweating in a quarter of my matches. Im used to DBD making me feel like I need to move, move, move as killer but this is on another level. Most survivors I encountered really were gen jockeys, and half of em weren't bad at chase either. So the killers I decided to play (Trapper, Legion, Michael) did not give me a good time. Id play nurse, but im afraid of getting stomped though since it's been forever lol, it'd be an adjustment.
I've looked around and it seems many posters have talked about gen speeds (as if they haven't always xp) but i never really took those concerns seriously until now. Low mobility killers seem rough.
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I play the game since December 2016, with a big break in 2018. Now I have 2.8k hours.
The most annoying thing to me in the game is what someone here already said: the bandaid problem, where they want to fix the game with perks (which makes so you need to pay or play a lot of hours to get) instead of fixing the issues within the core game. Even with the slight nerf, CoH is still a pretty strong perk, Dead Man's Switch + Scourge Hook is too strong and other stuff that I don't have to mention since you guys probably know.
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Very synthetic, and quite truthful actually.
The problem is not SBMM/MMR, it's core game mechanics that in many situations force tunneling/camping because it's very appealing.
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Both, tell me as much as you can, I'm trying to collect opinions on the matter.
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I completely agree but on SBMM/MMR. It's still better than nothing. Also me too, I don't have fun anymore playing solo almost, it feels you're almost forced to play full squad for real.
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I thought you were a Dbd enjoyer 🤔.
You're completely lacking the survivor part, also solo Q is really frustrating and a hell to play if you're actively trying to escape.
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Played since Chapter 6 or 7. Played both sides including a handful of killers.
Survivor - Relaxed mode, pretty fun although a lack of new maps hurt. The variety of killers to face ensures it's never dull. Need new maps, darker and more intimidating ones preferably. A new game mode wouldn't hurt in the coming years. I don't agree with boon totems when medkicks also exsist. Killers imo should be able to BREAK them, not reset them.
Killer - Used to find it good fun but obviously a more pressuring role than survivor. Currently a sweatfest every single game. Played 3 games last night and all 3 were against full red rank co ordinated dead harding, borrowed timing 360 jukers, despite me never going past rank 10 (old format) or currently Silver (Don't play loads) Just boring and predicable being outperked by the same perks every single game. Its just 16 perks to 4 and you don't have enough time to get them all in the time they get 5 gens done.
Overall
Good game but needs something else, a spark from somewhere.
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Nooo come back! ☹
The game is not as bad, come on! There are killers that are very fun to play like Pinhead or Doctor because they require precise mindgames and practice, and feel very rewarding!
I cannot agree with you on everything: Nemesis is not strong or A tier, he's B tier, so is Artist, she's not that strong.
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You can judge your level of skill if you've played the game for long enough and have a deep vision about it. I know players that have 3000 hours that explicitly say that they're bad at the game
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Depends on the time of the day, if you play at night from 1 am to 7am, you just find very bad survivors and you might not find a lobby after 20 minutes of waiting even. In the morning of early afternoon you find sweatlords for real
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All that matters to me is that Pig is weak, therefore the game's balance is not at an ideal state. :P
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I play since March 2017, I've more than 7000hrs.
The state of the game is the worst I've ever seen.
Sbmm made my games feel miserable, so i have quit the game killer side around beginning of October when i was used to play hours of it daily, i am only playing survivor atm and is not better than killer but at least is not stressful, just annoying and boring, is a nurse/blight fest and killers hard camp slug tunnel.
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Darker maps is very bad for balancement, because then you have people that play with filters and completely make the dark side useless.
Just Circle of Healing is the problem, not the other ones, they're completely fine.
Overall I agree
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Lol. For real, what do you think, even in a synthetic way?
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It's not at the worst it's ever been, that's false. The only problematic thing introduced is Circle of healing, but the game is miles better than what it used to be!
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I think map balance is at an all-time low, and I think too few Killers are viable against competent players.
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I disagree. Maybe against god tier SWF Nemi and Artist aren't that great, but they are fundamentally broken. But again, It's just a band-aid to an actual problem. Those two killers(and a god tier nurse which is rare) are the only killers with no actual counterplay. They are completely busted and anyone who knows how tiles and loops work can easily zone(completely negating the terrible advised counterplay of "hold w" for easy downs with no need to mindgame. But that's beside the point. I'm not picking on killers. I play killers too and there's plenty of stuff busted on the survivor end. I've just grown to hate the game now. It's massively unfun and/or boring 90% of the time. It was fun for a while, but now imo it's one of the worst multiplayer games due to the just blatant poor design choices. Legion is my main for killer so you can imagine how rough that is. I don't want a win handed to me, challenge is welcome, but the dependence on perks/killers you use is ridiculous. This game could disappear from my steam library at this point and I would just say "good riddance". I don't even care if I've spent $100+ on it. It's an incredibly ######### game.
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Game is balanced for most of time as long as survivors are full stacked SWF and killer is full meta nurse/blight, anything else is broken and mostly survivor sided.
Most of the maps are too big and has too many loops to be viable for usual killers, and while most of "average" players can easily pick up SWF, playing just two killer is rather difficult.
SoloQ is broken but it's not like survivors are forced to play different characters while playing SWF.
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Yes i enjoy the game by actively trying to extract survivors salt not only by my gameplay and perks, but also at the end game chat, does that look healthy to you?
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All time low? Like, do you remember the infinites there were before the reworks? Ok, there are maps like The Game that have 7/8 god pallets, but that's just one map. All the other ones usually have 1/2 god pallets max, and that's it.
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Blatant poor design choices? What?
Dud the game just improved since 2016, year after year no doubt. In 2018 there was the Marth88 Depip squad that showed how insanely unbalanced the game was back then! Dbd now IS DIFFERENT, and better! If you really believe that the game is in the worst state ever, tell me just one bad change apart from Cirle of Healing they did this and the previous year. During time they buffed and reworked a lot of killers (Doctor, Freddy, Clown), and made them better! Also, they did and will do quality of life changes for solos as VHS has.
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I think COH is annoying and quad slowdown carries too many bad killers. I'd like to see less killer perks focused on actual regression and more on buying time through blocking gens or extending the match time (i.e Dead Mans Switch, No way out). Doing gens is boring and a lot of newer killers struggle with gen speeds. It makes losing gens less stressful and more interaction for survivors, while also rewarding killers for their skills rather than dragging out the match so long the survivors just run out of resources before they can finish the last gens.
Overall I don't think the balance is as terrible as many people make it out to be. There's a couple of poo poo maps. And breakable walls are annoying. But often times the balance issues are blown out of proportion by people who didn't actually play that great but don't want to admit it. The game was so much worse than it is now I honestly can't even complain.
Have been playing since 2018 btw.
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