Question to the VETERAN/EXPERT players: what do you think of the CURRENT balancement state of Dbd?
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I think DMS is much better at carrying bad killers, usual regression perks can't really make time to actually chase a survivor, DMS does that.
Honestly, most of the slowdown perks in general doesn't really help bad killers, those things all rewards winning, not losing like DS and DH in extent.
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No, not even Nurse with 3 blinks and Blight can win alchemist ring can win against 4 giant toolboxes with BNPS and 12 charges with meta perks or 4 Lucky Break + Overcome with ranger medkits.
Almost all killers now have an anti loop power, and even the last m1 killers remained can do a lot of stuff unless you have maps like Cowshed or The Game.
Solo Q is not broken because of the matchmaking, you rarely find 4 very good solo survivors.
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No, not healthy at all.
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I disagree about DS but DH is a good point. I usually play Pyramid Head so DH is rarely an issue for me. As well as DS. But I do know the pain of getting robbed of a down because someone used the E perk.
DS never really comes into affect as long as u don't tunnel or have a chad power that doesn't activate it (me).
I'd say DMS is worse than meta regression solely because it encourages survivors to split up and do different gens. It's only really oppressive with boosted teammates or a camping artist. Where as something like a Tinkerer+Ruin blight can make the game a war of attrition if ruin isn't cleansed fast enough. Or any sort of killer with mobility. Spirit, Billy, Nurse, Blight (again). Basically turns the 3 most powerful killers into even stronger beasts. As well as ruin alone can buy u some good time on gens. Even if it's only up for about 2 minutes, if you're chasing survs off of gens that time adds up.
I could also go on about things like Corrupt buying even more early game pressure, Pain Resonance's ability to target crucial gens, Pop being able to synergize with other slowdown perks or fall back on when the others fail.
They don't necessarily help you in the way that DH does, but they are extremely impactful. And they make the game much easier for high tier killers and killer players with experience.
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Killers and their powers.
Personally I think this section is in a mediocre place. There's a lot of variation in power and strength. Some of the weaker killers are still fun to play though. Biggest issues I see are that the devs are very scared to change any powers even when it's fairly unanimously agreed upon that there's issues. They won't buff weak killers, they won't nerf strong killers, but then we get random executions like Deathslinger who was mid tier at best and basically lost his power.
Secondly, it's obvious they're running short on unique ideas. Sadako is a jumble of other killer power pieces stitched together, and it's not the first time we've seen it. Oni, Freddy, Trickster and many other killers have already been criticised for their lack of originality compared to existing powers, and there's only so many variations of similar anti-loop abilities that can feel like they aren't remakes.
Perks.
The absolute trainwreck of balance. Blatantly overpowered perks untouched for years. Reworked perks fall into two categories, either "was useless, still useless with a 5% higher number," or "we just made this so overpowered that it's in every match until we fix it."
New chapters come with either things so broken that they determine the meta (CoH) or you literally can't remember more than 1 of a character's perks because they're ######### awful, looking at you Jonah and Yoichi.
The devs are leaning super hard into the power-creep method of balancing where they just won't touch things that are too strong, and keep making other stuff just as broken which makes even less-meta builds feel miserable to play against.
Maps.
I find most maps are decent. The biggest issues are not considering existing killer powers like Trapper and Blight when making and testing a map.
The Game rework is still the worst thing to ever happen to a map, it's miserable on the killer side and frustrating on the survivor side when you just die because you found a dead end blocked by breakable walls and gen-doors.
Items.
Medkits are too strong, bit of a symptom of the CoH meta. That's about it. Green keys should probably have a default effect.
Add-ons.
Survivor add ons are fine. Recent killers, mostly reworks moreso than new releases, just get all of their add ons removed for memes that all feel ######### to use. I think it's just their way of avoiding anything being too strong, but honestly, what is meant to be appealing about 90% of Nurse, Billy, Freddy or Deathslinger's add ons? It makes the killers feel very one-dimensional because they lack the slight change-ups in playstyle between matches that other killers get.
Offerings.
If it's not bloodpoints, I don't want it.
Offering exist solely to make 50% of the bloodweb worthless, and a sink for your hard earnt points that you can't avoid spending on.
Luck.
Luck is in a good place. Survivor spawns are fairly regular, I start the match going to the furthest gen and I can usually find 2-3 survivors around it. I think complaining about survivor spawns is a symptom of peoples' overreliance on Corrupt, as they force the survivors to split up and spread out, then complain about them having too much pressure.
Totem spawns have never been brilliant. You can't make a totem spot that people can't learn, or perks exist to help find them, so there's really no fix to it, but hexes aren't meant to be impossible to find. You want to bring temporary perks? Don't complain when your perks then turn out to be temporary. Additionally, don't then bring a second temporary perk (undying) that has no effect except being a second copy of your temporary perk, then complain that you're down 2 perks. You're making these decisions, think through the consequences before blaming RNG.
Edit:
I play both sides, around 2.5k hours, been playing since the Pig released.
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In a very band-aidish and RNG dependent way, I think public matches are kinda balanced, as long as you're playing with a decent build(as killer) and as survivor the game is pretty relaxing, and if you're experienced you will win most of your games on both sides. The problem is, you can lose in such snowballish way that feels very frustrating and can feel awful, but the game is def in a better state than back when infinites were a thing.
For high level and competitive play, I think the balance is not even close to a good spot. Tournaments have loads of restrictions to make things somewhat balanced, and mostly consist of top tier killers, but if MAJORITY of the cast is not viable, and majority of the maps are banned, I don't consider the game in its "pure" state balanced for competitive play. But sure, if you're a god blight or nurse, you pretty much should fear no one and most of the sweaty public matches you lose will be on you, but with a bottom tier killer you're not playing the game on equal fields vs a rly good team, unless they're messing around and being ultra altruistic and throwing the game xD.
I can see the game getting quite repetitive tho, imo the meta of dbd is SUPER stale and would be nice if they spiced things up. And the AWFUL bloodpoint grind makes things even more stale and demotivating for lots of players, they need to address it afap if they wanna put the game in a healthier state.
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Been playing since 2017 when the game dropped on console. Got it on launch day and currently have 4,381 hours.
The balance is wonky. ATM, it feels like whichever side brought the best options into that match will be the one to "succeed" or at the very least not stress as much. As you play more especially into the higher ranks, you'll feel incentivized into bringing the meta.
RNG is also something that should be looked at because this game relies on this too much. The map, the LAYOUT of the map, spawn points, killer favoritism on a map, builds from the other side, etc mixed together are all things out of the player's control (except the map [+ basement] due to offerings). It's hard to justify skill and fun when RNG is so dominant. Someone playing blight may find him amazing when playing on Shelter Woods but may think he's underwhelming when they're on Rotten Fields. Was me spawning in Dead Dawg Saloon's dead zone then proceeding to get caught by Lethal Pursuer Spirit mean that I suck at hiding? What about things under my control? Going back to that spirit example, if I were running a full altruistic build, does it mean that I suck if I couldn't last as long compared to the MegHead with a full chase-related build? There are a lot of variables that are in play in every match.
I also believe that the structure of each survivor team will affect gameplay. Is the team 4 solos, 2 SWF members + 2 randoms, 3 SWF members + 1 random, or a full squad? From my experience, the layout of the teams tilts the match as there is a difference between swf's and solos. Also, we all know how HELL solo queue is (for most of us at least). Decreasing the gap between swf's and solos is on my bucket list.
Those are what I believe to be the balance-defining aspects of DBD.
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I mean, DS is more "rewards losing" than DH, you can use DH without ever making a mistake at all, you can't with DS, if you don't tunnel you are forced to hook four times as opposed to three times to kill a survivor.
"make the game much easier for good killers" is not quite good, because it means it doesn't help bad killers while immensely boosting good killers.
Not much of anti loop killers can deal with good palettes, you don't even need god palettes to deal with them, mobility is the biggest problem for most anyway.
I think few months ago someone did "everything is allowed" tourney and results were 2k2e average with only three killers used, which means more or less game is "balanced" as long as everyone take meta loadout.
And I suppose SoloQ is broken ONLY because of the matchmaking? I think game is fine (or even still survivor sided) against most of killers even without comms.
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As long as there are more survivors than killers, it's always hard to keep pressure on all if they can always just heal.
Yeah, in a chase, you will get them, but in the meantime, 3 gens fly by. You just don't have the means to apply pressure anymore with CoH in game.
I personally found that what's really efficient is Pentimento+NOED+Tinkerer+BBQ on Nurse. During the game itself, there are 2 scenarios:
1) They do gens fast.
In this case, Pentimento and Tinkerer may not really come into play, but then, you have NOED, and on nurse, combined with BBQ and maybe some blink range addons, you can suddenly flip the table.
2) They don't do gens that fast and maybe cleanse a few totems.
In this case, you get to activate Pentimento, and paired with Tinkerer, you can really apply some amazing pressure. Those extra 7.2 seconds on Tinkerer combined with Nurse can really turn everything in a slug.
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1. Getting face camped isn't automatically the end. I had a match, where I ran a Bubba for 4 gens. He obviously face camped me. Now I saw that a survivor was sitting on the last gen, while the others attempted a save. David unhooked me with BT, but went down. I ran straight to the last gen. Bubba managed to slug 2 and hooked David, while I finished the last ggen. I got 1 up and unhooked David. In the end, everyone but me made it out. I piped, got a ton of points and one of the most intense games in a while.
Since the mmr is preferring short queues over fair matches, it doesn't really matter where you are mmr wise. Because you could literally get everything.
2. As already mentioned, Ruin is getting obsolete. The new perk is more reliable.
Now imagine that Boon perks were 1 time use only. That you permanently lose the perk if the killer cleanses it. Suddenly no one would run boon perks anymore, because they're trash.
Yet, somehow it's totally okay to assume that a killer can lose a hex. Since its "high risk, high reward".
If you place a hex and a boon next to each other, which one would you consider high risk and which one high reward?
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Do you have examples on why you think it's better than ever before?
Many veteran killers have either switched or quit.
There's a reason for that.
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Overall it was more unbalanced on both sides in the past. They seem to have nerfed everything crazy about killers besides Myers addons, which im sure are up next.
The survivor nerfs have been hit and miss, with the insta heal addons being nerfed heavily but leaving still a few very problematic perks like DH and DS. And the introduction of COH has basically destroyed any semblance of balance they might have been going for.
Overall old DBD was funner because of busted addons/perks on both sides, and they have cut through OP killer stuff with a great sword, but left too many problematic survivor perks/addons in place, making it far more unbalanced overall than in the past.
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Been playing since 2018 just after clowns release and have been playing both sides since I started. I won't get into too much detail in this particular post unless you want an entire book, but my general thoughts on the 7 categories:
- The killer balance is poor imo, too small of a pool is viable. I think differentiating "Killer" from "Nurse, Blight, Spirit" is important here. The few killers at the top might be fine, but the vast majority of the killer roster isn't. A team of 4 good survivors will win against a good killer in most cases. Game in general favors survivor way too often, Killer as a whole is underpowered.
- From my perspective, the good survivor perks are way too strong or have no consideration to multiple being run; and they give killer perks too many conditions/CDs (see Dragons Grip). Perks need to be addressed faster and with bigger changes. DH and CoH are really hurting the game and have been for a while now, they should have been addressed by now. Like CoH breaking the game? Eh, barely nerf it. Even easy fixes like removing collision from BT aren't even talked about. The strong survivor perks do too much when multiple are running them, which is going to happen if they're strong. Boons are too much if even 1 gets put up. Giving survivors "free" health states/second chances is too common. Boons are just better hexes when that should really be reversed. On the other end perks like Monstrous Shrine and Slippery Meat have been left untouched for eons.
- Maps generally are too big and have too many pallets/safe loops. Obviously depends on which map but in general maps favor survivors too heavily/often. Breakable walls were badly executed and just make god loops, they put way too many in a lot of maps as well. Gen times are tied to this as gens go too fast for how long it takes to get a down, and it takes so long to get a down because of the map design. One needs to change, gens or chase times. So its either longer chases and longer objectives, or shorter chases and shorter objectives, not longer chases but short objectives like it currently is.
- Med kits have always been a problem but healing in general seems to always be a problem. Maybe base healing should just take longer idk. Toolboxes exacerbate the already problematic gen times. Broken key should have something base kit and not be reliant on add-ons just to function. Maps need more base duration. Flashlight just needs to get fixed/changed so you can't get blinded by someone not even on your screen.
- Add-ons are a wild spectrum, and that's kind of a problem imo. There's killers that have mostly trash add-ons like PH, then you have killers like Blight and Myers whose add-ons can get very strong if not outright broken. They need to be brought more towards a middle ground. On the survivor side, add-ons feel more appropriately tuned because the items all do their job at base minus the broken key, so the add-ons are just a little extra for the most part. Some are really really strong like the syringe and the Styptic (bottled time). Add-on balance is all over the place.
- My main gripe with offering is map and hook offerings, they should just be removed imho. 9/10 times they're just used to abuse a map in one way or another. Mori's feel weak now, before they were definitely too strong but now it feels like a waste to even use them.
- Luck just has a little too much variance and impact and can be reigned in a little. Gates should always spawn on opposite sides of the map for example. 4% needs to go imo, it just lets survivors self sacrifice or get a unhook that can change the entire game and makes killer's camp for fear of them getting off when they have everyone else down/dead.
They need to start balancing the game around good survivors with communication. Right now it seems like they balance around bad survivors and survivors with no communication so when either of these aren't true the game falls apart really fast. 4 good solos will still run over most of the killer roster. They also need to give survivors a chat wheel/ping system.
Post edited by MrPenguin on4 -
Fair point, that was before my time. What I should say is that "since I have started playing (which was when DBD was put on PS Plus between the Clown and the Spirit update), map balance has hit an all-time low." And I stand by my belief that too few Killers are viable against competent players. I think if the Survivor player base at large wasn't comprised of so many potatoes, the issue would be infinitely more apparent.
Granted, I play only Pig as a Killer, which is suffering, so maybe my perspective is warped to some degree. Currently, I believe Pig's only shot at being remotely viable is with Amanda's Letter. I think playing with and without Amanda's letter is like night and day. Though that's a whole separate discussion.
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Preach!
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That's not as terrible of an idea. I'm still against turning all games into pseudo-SWF matches unless killers get something out of the deal, too, however.
Is VHS even back online yet?
Okay, but with this community, there would be slurs, harassment, and general troublemaking, and how would they enforce/investigate bans? Would they save all voice chat for every game to their servers and then just look when someone files a report? Would they ban someone just for getting a high number of reports (prone to false positives and ensures that someone can get away with racial/sexual harassment if they only do it every once in a while)? Would they hire a dedicated team to listen in on games (with 40-50k people playing around the clock, that's a lot of manpower)? Would they try to use some sort of voice-to-text algorithm to look for abusive language (prone to false positives and meaning that you can just pronounce words differently and defeat it)? Combine that with the fact that a large chunk of the userbase are cheaters who probably buy new accounts with stolen credit cards every time they're banned and you have no way to stop it.
Policing that sort of thing isn't feasible. Considering how strict the devs are about using profanity on the forums (we should be able to use the f-word here, honestly; we are all adults) and even words like "facecamping" in the chatbox, along with removing entire sections of cosmetics due to racist abuse, I doubt they'll be willing to take a chance on this, but hey.
I also strongly disagree with that idea in general, just because, again, going against SWFs is already miserable and an extremely survivor-sided experience. If every game becomes an SWF game, we need some really serious killer buffs to compete. Like, bring back no-hook Moris, bring back top-tier Freddy and Spirit, reverse all of the killer nerfs in recent memory, add more synergizing meta perks kinda thing.
Also, gaining SBMM ranks doesn't mean you're winning. There's a reason you can't see your rank. Gaining SBMM doesn't even necessarily mean you're playing well, it means that the way you're playing is consistently killing everyone you're going up against. If all you do is facecamp (either because it's your main strategy or, for some reason, you think it will land you in high-level SBMM), then you're going to eventually be placed with survivors who know better than to play games with you by the hook all match when they could be doing gens and leaving you with a 1K. There's a point where tunneling and patrolling/light camping because necessary to win (facecamping is only a good idea if gens are all done), but that has more to do with the game balance itself than anything to do with SBMM.
All SBMM does is put you in a place where you're getting kills most games. It had a rocky start, but I think it's working well enough for its intended purpose.
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Well the devs want to bring solos to SWF skill levels. Right now, SWF has a 15% higher escape rate. So in an ideal world, killers would then get a buff/survivors a nerf, to compensate for this far higher escape rate.
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Interesting
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Sadly good survivors don't cleanse totems ever pretty much, so Pentimento without a totem build is totally useless.
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I disagree, I think Circle of Healing is the only problem, all the other boons are either trash or weak, and making CoH a 1 time use only wouldn't solve the problem, especially against survivors that know what they're doing.
Ruin is not obsolete, especially if you go straight to the totem at the start, and sometimes doing this can bait survivors to give you free hits, for example with Nemesis to get to tier 2. Or the totem can be far away and hidden and usually last quite long.
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Players quit because of the negativity in the community and SBMM being disliked (I don't hate it, actually I quite like it because it's still better than nothing) and lots of things that happened in 2021 that frustrated the community such as the Pinhead NFT, cheaters becoming increasingly a problem, IP leaks that forced everyone use VPNS, dead hard validation, etc.
Before in 2018? No Corrupt intervention, vacuum pallets, instant heals that could make instantly healthy someone from the ground, BNPS that made a gen pop in 20 seconds, DS super busted, infinites, Object of obsession, Mories after the first hook, 3 man escape with keys at 1 gen left, heals in 12 seconds, lag switchers, Nurse with no recharge that could have 5 blinks and super busted omegablinks. All of these are gone, especially the keys FINALLY after 5 years.
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Tombstone piece is only a problem is you don't have a pallet or a locker nearby, you can pretty much force Myers to never mori you. Unless you have infinite tier 3 mori which is almost impossible to get before the match is over.
DS is right to be in the game otherwise there would be no anti tunneling perk (and BT is not enough at doing this) and killers would just tunnel with no strategical thinking.
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I agree pretty much on everything. And yeah, being solos to up to premade groups, and not the opposite which is very unreliable.
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Pig is tough, apart from the dash you're almost a m1 killer, one of the few ones remained that have almost no chasing power.
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The potential disadvantage of the voice chat would be vastly inferior to all the advantages it would bring. Also, nerfing premade groups to bring them down to the level of solos would require an immense level of work compared to bringing solos to a coordination level comparable to that of strong survivors.
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Hit validation, Moris that didn´t require hooks, Dribbling a DS to a hook, lag switchers still exist btw, and you call the things on your list improvements for killers?
MMMHHHKAAAY
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Honestly, I find that even one totem being cleansed can turn everything into a slug. And nevertheless, even if they don't cleanse at all, you have NOED, which really helps, considering how you lose 2-3 gens by your first hook.
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So many killers, especially with the McLean patch and during time go many reworks and quality of changes improvevents. Doctor, for example: with a distracted eye, it might feel almost the same killer it was before, but the rework of his power completely changed it works in chase and now if you know what you're doing he can be bonkers and can defeat dropped long pallet loops that some killers cannot deal with from example. Still he as many other killers suffers a lot from the Shift W playstyle.
Also we're on dedicated servers, and I haven't seen a lagswitcher within ages, so can they still do it since it's not per to peer anymore?
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Many times not even one gets cleansed, because usually the teammates of who cleansed the totems will call them out in chat for destroying totem spots for CoH. It has become a sort of etiquette thing basically.
It's so frustrating to have builds or strats that work only against bad or uncoordinated survivors, because that time you find that good team you're done basically.
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Yeah, I agree with that, but the cool part as I said is NOED.
You can call one bad for using it, the perk bad etc., but it is hella efficient. It kinda secures a kill in endgame. And even if they do cleanse it, you're nurse, who is like the biggest counter to exit gate body blocking.
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Not only decent, probably one of the best perk in the entire game on some killers.
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I've got about 2.5K hours in the game, on multiple platforms. I play both roles (nobody can hope to improve without playing both sides) and I own every character.
Answering taking everything into account is next to impossible.
First, let's forget about beginners, they are only there to corrupt the statistics.
Killers are mostly useless. Nurse and Blight are the only ones not too easy to ridicule.
Perks are mostly useless, both sides. There is only a small set that make sense and you have to waste time for hours to finally get the good ones. Thankfully you only need to focus on one survivor and maybe 5 killers. Also survivors have way too many second-chance perks. (Probably because the game is balanced for beginners and they need all the help they can get at that level of experience).
Add-ons are mostly OK, except Iridescent hatchet which is just busted. I'm not saying there aren't powerful add-ons making life difficult for the survivors, only that that specific one is shameful.
Offering which give some bonus are fine IMHO. Map offering though, given how busted some maps are, is just disgraceful. Of course an offering like MacMillan is fine. I'd drop them from the game.
Map generation is bad. Too many times you get a dead-zone or its opposite: a chaining of safe zones allowing a competent survivor to last several minutes in a chase (that a competent killer will recognize and drop immediately, cursing the devs).
The first fact is that playing survivor is easier. Most of the time you are doing simple things and sometimes you are in a chase. Do the gens, save a friend, leave. The killer however has no downtime, is pressured by time and needs to juggle with 4 people. If the survivors are on comms, they can even share information to make it easier. That problem isn't exclusive to DbD. I've played VHS and it's even worse there.
The second fact is that, on many maps, efficient survivors are next to impossible to beat. The killer can only be at one place at a time and with coordination gens will fly. Everyone with experience knows a game over in barely 5 minutes is quite common. Getting survivors down fast is irrelevant, they only need to ensure a good spread and to get far from the currently worked gens. (And yes, there is more like protections and fast healing, that's only making the problem worse.) Granted, a killer can finish a game faster but that's not very common and it requires survivors to absolutely f-up (I'm getting full wipes in about 2 minutes once in a while, and it's always their fault.)
The third fact is that some maps are very badly designed and are making many killers next to useless. (Although I smile when I play Nurse and an offering sends me in a multi-floor map, even RPD as I'll be extra nasty in it). Players have often advocated against big maps and BHVR is still giving us that crap.
Killer is stressful and often unrewarding and has been for as long as I can remember. (There have been some exceptions, corrected by the devs e.g. omega Nurse was busted, in the hand of an adequate player.) The matchmaking was awful and your never knew what to prepare for. This was also true for the survivor side but again : survivor isn't as stressful.
Cue the MMR. (With a swarm of players screaming : bad idea, can't do it, will never work, only makes sense in a balanced game ...)
Now, once a killer wins a few games, he gets against top players. This means that from the bad, random, games he mostly get highly stressful, barely winnable, ones. MMR has a soft cap (else survivor teams would never find a game) so it's a chore.
Many players finally give up, making killers even more scarce they already were.
The killers who remain go heavy on using efficient but oh-not-fun-at-all tactics like tunneling and camping (the killer equivalent of genrushing). It comes from a mix of efficiency and desperation. Lower score? Lowers MMR? Even more reason to do it then.
Now the average survivors who didn't ask anything get frustrated killers who expect yet another ######### game. The killers treat these poor guys the same way and now the average survivor start to find the game awful because they are tunneled, slugged, camped and there is nothing they can do. Some of them leave the game.
And now comes COH, making playing "fun" even worse for killers as survivors heal way too fast ad nauseam. (Some survivors now specialize in protection hits). More killers leave. Tunneling and camping are de-facto the only way to hope winning against a good team.
Now, when I play survivor, if I get caught, I get camped or tunneled and the 3 others escape (a win for the team). I don't really have a team anymore as they have all given up on the game. Sometimes they come back, play two rounds, get camped/tunneled, and leave again.
Now, when I play killer, I treat any team looking even barely competent with a 4 slug and if it doesn't work, by tunneling them one by one. If by the time I've broken half of the pallets of the match and downed one 3 gens are done, I'll probably camp there and wait for them to come or leave the game. I see no reason to waste more of my time. (The weaker teams get a pass for a 3k after doing 4 gens + hatch.)
Yay, fun.
So, looking at efficient games, survivors have definitively an edge even against a Nurse. I believe the main culprits are map size vs generator speed and COH.
Without COH, survivors would have to waste more time healing if they want to be safe.
With smaller maps, the killer can find and disturb survivors more easily, reducing the pace of the game. Besides it would also lead to more interactions between survivors and killers. (Because, seriously, who likes to wait for 5 to 10 minutes to play a game only to do gens QTEs, barely seeing the killer?)
DH, which is one of the current top complains, wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't making survivors last so much longer.
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Survivors can lag switch. Which impedes killers from picking them up or hooking them.
Tbh, you asked veteran players for their imput, but seem pretty defensive about your opinion, when said input varies from your opinion.
So i´m not really sure what you want from this thread.
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One of the best articulated and factual posts I've read for a while. Great points.
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I didn't know it was still possible to lagswitch, actually I remember vaguely from one video that showed what hackers could do (so many things it's insane).
I still think that if people try to exploit every feature of Dbd it IS pretty bad, but not as bad as Dbd was even in 2020, for example. And there are many underrated perks like forced penance, for example, that can help with many things, so I disagree that's it's at the worst it has ever been, especially if you use those killers that can ignore the strength of Circle of Healing.
Playing Hag and Wraith I know how OP Circle of Healing is, but still with all the other killers you can take advantage of the time they wasted blessing totems (camping and tunneling, that's the only way to make it backfire pretty much).
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Nurse with 3 blinks is also busted, trust me.
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Not really, no. Pass the surprise of the third blink, it's only one more juke for a shorter blink and a longer downtime. It's strong, nothing more.
Besides, the few times I've used it, I had to force myself to need that 3rd blinks. Any good Nurse will only need one or two blinks for a hit.
(We are speaking about good players, right?)
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With 3 blinks you can always get the first hit, especially with the omegablink add-on, and if you can hide your third blink you can bait DH and then catch them with it. There is not really a high risk high reward scenario, because, especially with the recharge add-on, it's almost impossible to dodge 3 blinks, because you don't blink slower, so the downside of the recharge is really not a problem if you know what you're doing, and god tier Nurses need only 2 blinks, if they have a third one and maybe Starstruck it's really gg
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Its bad,what's the worst is that they dont listen to valid criticism and they pretty much do their best to do the opposite of what community wants
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You blink shorter. Besides, even if, how is that busted? Busted is "blam, you're dead".
Not needing the 3rd blink means it's almost irrelevant. And yes, it is. As I stated earlier, I never needed it. It's a gimmick that can be used as a surprise, once. (Again, we are speaking about good, efficient, players or ?)
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6,4k Hours and also 1 year of comp experience and also I host my own tournaments. I am also playing since the Beta.
Most ppl seem to agree on that so here the short version. The game is unbalanced when both sides bring the absolute strongest, the survivors have stronger and better perks or addons overall compared to the Killer. Some Killers have arguably equally or stronger addons like Blight tag or Iri head but those are very few exceptions.
Maps:
BHVR is kinda balancing around the game WITH perks and addons, you can also see in time that the maps got less and less pallets, especially Mac Millain and Auto heaven, they both usually have huge dead zones. Loops are getting constantly bigger and offer less mindgames, you can see that on the new map and some reworked maps like cold wind farm or auto heaven. For some reason Mindgames are getting "fixed" and tossed aside which is very questionable and weird, I always though that mindgames are a great game design and a fun and balanced tool in chases for both sides. Mindgameable loops should be more often available and we need more loops overall on most maps to promote more different chases, currently the same tiles are often getting reused which is just boring. Give survivors more recources to work with and meanwhile nerf the overall loops again abit to make them abit less save.
Loadouts:
Add unranked and ranked mode and define rules for loadouts and map spawns differently there. Unranked mode should have stronger and open loops in general for casual players and less restrictions on loadouts and the ranked mode should have less loops which also promote mindgames. Dead zones should be adressed cuz it can be very frustrating if you run into an area and there is literally nothing. In ranked mode there should be also perk and item restrictions so you cannot stack them like 4 unbreakable's.
The second thing is stronger perks especially the meta should be finally nerfed, even ruin and pop. Some of the perks should be baked in as baseline for example the base gen kick is basicly worthless, pop should be reduced to 20% dmg and the base kick should get the 5% damage from pop as. Which means if you just kick a gen normally you get instantly a 5% explosion on the gen.
Also anti gen perks should not be able to be stacked as well, a limit of 2-3 anti gen at max but never 4. Its simply too frustrating and also boring.
Killers:
About Killers, I dont think any of the meta Killers need any nerfs, they are fine as they are, I would even say revert the Spirit and Deathslinger nerf, both are just unecessary and not fun they make the killers feel clunky and weird. However the weaker Killers still are starving for proper buffs, Trapper and Wraith both went to the right direction but Killers like Clown, Legion, Myers or Ghostface need adjustments and buffs.
Artist is a good example of a well designed and executed Killer. Killers SHOULD be complicated and overwhelming and oppressive, it would be boring to get very simple Killers.
General Gameplay:
The next thing is that the general Killer gameplay needs some sort of change. My suggestion would in a way at least reduce camping and tunneling but it would also promote more fun and versatile gameplay. The Killer needs a second way to get to gen pressure other then hooking, especially weaker Killers that struggle with early game pressure struggle a lot and often NEED to rely on camping and tunneling to even have the slighest chance. My answer would be to give the Killers a second objective, my concept is pretty simple, 2 shrines are around the map. After injuring survivors the Killer you can offer the blood you have on your weapon to start a ritual and please the entity, after a specific amount of blood as been collected and brought to the shrines the trial changes into a "challange" where everything becomes red and shakes like the end game collapse. For 2 min all gens are blocked and the survivors are getting revealed by crows that follow them and fly towards them. The Killer gets like that some extra time and a chance to create pressure and possibly even 4k slug the survivors.
Sounds abit op right? Well survivors can "sabotage" the shrine offerings by stealing blood from the shrines and bring them to a cleansing shrine to get rid of it but also get a healing buff (50%) and also get a free self pick up (Free Unbreakable, the perk itsself should get completly reworked). Survivors that have blood are revealed with killer instinct shortly. This is a little back and forth fight and can create a very cool new interaction with the Killer, if you know the killer is going for that then you need 1 or 2 survivors get off gens to prevent the Killer from completing the ritual and stopping the game for 2 whole minutes. You cant simply ignore this mechanic cuz at some point the Killer will get the ritual done (It shouldn't take too long) and therefore the survivors are getting interrupted and forced to interact with the Killer. Also this would enable the Killer to not go for hooks atleast in the early game and go juggle around gens to get hits like that, you obviously only collect blood by injuring survivors not downing them. Which means heal perks like Circle of healing arent now a big issue for you anymore. This whole thing is ofc optional and you can STILL play normal by just going for chases and hooks, its just a side objective you can choose to do.
These would be my thoughts atleast for now.
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Thank you, it's nice to know it was well received 🙂
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survivors have everything to survive, killers have nothing to kill survivors, whenever we have something it's a ######### hex that is gone in 20 seconds, they have perks for distance they have perks for gen repairs they have perks for healing they have perks to recover on their own, we have slower healing, progress perk, slightly faster breaking and vaulting, but nothing to truly kill them, survivors have the map and perks to survive, we nearly only have our power to kill them, our perks barely give us a tiny boost while their perks gives them truly help.
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Been playing since the game was first released on Console and have since moved to PC. Did also play it when it first released on PC, but that was with a friend's account, so not sure. Currently sitting on 1.2k hours with console, and 750 on PC. So about 1900 hours total. Not a lot, but I think I've been around long enough to give my own opinion on the game.
With that in mind, I'll go through each of the categories you laid out so this will be less about balance and more of my own thoughts on each subject with my general thoughts of the balance being at the end. If it ends up being a mess with conflicting opinions, I apologise.
- Let's start off with the first category. Killers and Survivors. I think the cast we have currently is more than for a while. They have noticeable difference between powers and designs, with varying difficulty in learning them. However, a majority have something wrong with them. They don't change the basic structure of the match and how you as a survivor play it. Each one's counterplay typically ends up being *Run to a loop, get hit/put a pallet down, run to a loop, get hit/put a pallet down, repeat until downed or you escape the chase.* The only killers that change it up are Nurse, Spirit... And I'm struggling to think of a third.. Either way, if out of 27 killers, only two or three change up the way a chase plays out (which is the main bulk and enjoyment of the game) then I can't say that's good design. That goes for survivors as well though. It's confusing that they release more and more when they're literally reskins who are just bought for perks.
- Speaking of perks.. I really need BHVR to stop. We have damn near two hundred of the things in total, and that's ignoring the pointless tier system. What makes it worse is that even after 3-4 years, the meta for survivor has hardly changed and even the killer meta hasn't changed in all actuality. With survivor, out of 104 perks you'll see.. Maybe 6. With the occasional 7th. Typically it's take a pick from DH, BT, DS, UB, IW, and the latest edition of CoH. Each of these countering and entire strategy and/or power of a killer. As killer, you can take your pick of Gen Defence perks. Just make sure it's not a hex, those are gone within a minute of being found out.
- I sincerely hope they fire the map designer for the last few map changes. I kid of course.. Kind of. The reworks to the Cornfields and the Game were done extremely poorly and have become some of the worst maps to play on for both sides in my opinion. Corn is just corn with all the loops of the outside, with every single one being able to chain into another with no difficulty. The game is just, run, drop pallet, run, drop pallet. By the time the thirtieth one is broken every gen should have been done. Exaggeration, but you get the point. Then there's the absolute mess that is the RPD. A map in this game shouldn't be that large, and definitely shouldn't have a loops with no counter-play whatsoever. Which sums up my opinion with a lot of the maps, too big with loops that have zero counter-play.
- I'm going to separate addons for killer and survivor, and combine the latter here with items since you will NEVER see an addon-less item being brought in. And I have to say, some of them are ridiculous at times. Being able to complete two or three generators before the killer can get a hit isn't something that should be allowed. Being able to heal mid chase, being able to sabotage hooks and the occasional blind that for some reason damages a killer's hearing too. I don't think any of these things are good for the game, but they're not the most problematic thing in my opinion. Although I say toolboxes are still quite a bit too powerful.
- Addons for killers are mixed.. I think that a majority of them should be reworked and removed. Leave a small amount that change how the killer plays in a bigger way. Such as how one can make it so Plague can't infect with vomit, only with interactions, but increases how quickly they infect. There's one with Nurse that gives her normal speed, but only one blink. They should change how the killer is played, rather than just "You do this thing a bit better and this thing a bit worse."
- Offerings.. You see Bloodpoint boosts or Moris. That's it. It's a system that needs some love. Make it change the game in a drastic way. For example, an offering that makes every action 10% slower, but the player can run 2% quicker. One that makes totems blocked for 30 seconds, but gens are 5% quicker. Something that makes the game different, which is what an offering should be.
- RNG.. I couldn't say more negative things about RNG being in a game like this. One side will always be screwed over by it. It needs to go in my opinion.
Now, as for my balance thoughts on the game right now. Personally, I think DBD isn't the most balanced it has ever been. I'd say that was around the time before The Twins was released. But, it is more balanced now than it was a few years ago. The issue is, is it's way too repetitive. Killers are all the same except for the two or three exceptions when you go down to the basics, survivors are all reskins that run the same perks so there's no variety there, and maps all have the same loops. Ironically I'd have said Haddonfield had the most variety of loops in the game, sure they weren't balanced at all, but they were at least varied.
When it comes down to it though, the game hasn't changed much if at all, even after 5 years when it comes to balance. A good team on comms will always beat a killer, and a solo team will typically always struggle against the same killer.
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Devotion 10, I play from clown dlc. The balance is bad solo need BT basekit buff and facecamp nerf to help. Swf are Op, cause broken offerngs (maps too) and items. Coh broke the game balance. Dh for distance broken. Prove theyself and built to last+ toolboxes broke the game too. Killers need to face this broken stuff, so the only ways are corrupt or ruin builds (often broke at start) or devour/noed endgame builds + lucky rng and camp/tunnel. Too much stuff to nerf.
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Bought DBD in 2016 so i'm one of the old players that saw all changes..
Here is a proof:
So my opinion is that I think DBD is regressing instead of evolving. With the implementation of DH last changes and boons specially CoH its like they are trying to bring back the old DBD where true infinites existed but replaced with this, wich gives the same result: unfun and broken. Many M1 killers are outdated or died after this and that its a huge issue.
I also think that they are prioritizing a lot more the quantity of the content instead of quality, and that has been affecting the game very negatively with bugs, unbalanced perks and more, to the point that they either ignore the issues or put a "Soon tm" next to it.
SBMM is one of the worst things that could happen to dbd:
- Because its ######### soloQ a lot.
- Because it doesn't measure real skill (kills and escapes it a really vague condition and its not a reflection of a player skill at all)
And to finalize i think the devs should stop releasing DLC for at least 5 months and take time to polish the game, think about new ideas maybe new game modes because lets face it, dbd become boring after a few hours of the same specially as survivor and even more lately with the lack of killer variety because of the pitiful game balance that force people to play always the same killers.
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That they do the opposite of what the community wants it's false, otherwise many things wouldn't have been changed.
The question is always if they don't have the time, for some reason, to rework killers and trash add-ons, faster than a turtle or they wanna keep the game balanced for only when you face casual players that have ± 1 weak link and aren't efficient.
You don't blink shorter, you blink the same exact distance.
We must not fall into the whataboutism: if the game ever got balanced, an add-on that buffs your power so massively shouldn't exist, because otherwise why shouldn't everybody just use it and nothing else?
Talking about good efficient players, have you ever watched Xeno( the comp player)? You can just a Nurse, and quite a lot sometimes, because they know how the Nurse works and know a lot of mindgames being Nurse main themselves. This when doing 1 vs 1s against other very good comp players he can resist even 1/2 minutes against that, if had a 3rd blink, you would just not juke them ever.
Also the 3rd blink is even better than recharge in some situations, because if you don't use the third you can have 2 blinks available almost immediately.
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Hello Benzo, thanks for your opinion of such a veteran like you 😃! Very cool idea, I completely agree with you but on Spirit. I think she was gives the audio effect for good (Deathslinger was a bad nerf without any VALID compensation), now it's not a coin flip anymore if you have good reaction times at many loops, and has more counterplay for both sides.
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It was never a coin flip since still the vast majority of survivors are running iron will. Also sounds are often not reliable since they can be inconistent aswell, thats atleast my experience before I quit playing her, I could be also very unlucky.
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I'm sorry, but this as someone who has always said the game was massively unbalanced in the bast, your is just a biased Killer main opinion, that's factually false for all S/A tier killers and most of B tier killers unless the very busted combination are used in matches, which doesn't happen.
Want something to always kill 2 survivors? Use Bubba with Corrupt, Deadlock, Dead Man's Switch and Bamboozle, you don't even need noed because they cannot bodyblock in the endgame a chainsaw Killer, and you can pretty much always zone out survivors. You then down a survivor within 60 seconds, even going for m1s, and straight up facecamp. That's it, 2 kills ALWAYS guaranteed especially if you can safely patrol the area a bit to force them off gens. This is because they don't have enough time to do all gens and open the exit gates before who is hooked dies facecamped.
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