If Camping is not Intended, why are Hook Grabs still a thing?
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Except it doesn't halt the game. Part of the game, as survivor, is being on a hook, and possibly dying. Whether you go through the hook states all at once or in separate parts, the timer still moves, nothing is halted.
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Just had a couple of games today as Cenobite. Won all games without having to use addons and/or having to camp/tunnel.
All of the survivors were high gold + Red ranked, so either I'm a god tier killer, or the survivors are not as good as you claim they are. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
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"game" meaning actual PLAYING the source of entertainment you have paid for and have currently turned on.
A survivor can't do NOTHING when you're being camped. Prove to me otherwise.
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A lot of people aren't taking you seriously but part of me actually is thinking about this too. In a way it's comparable to the hatch standoff.
Not sure I'd do away with the feature but interesting spin on the topic to be fair.
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Yes. Yes it is
All 3 are nonsense terms made by people who want to blame their loss on their opponents somehow playing "unfairly" because they didn't follow some made up rules.
Tunneling, in any other team based multiplayer game is just focusing down a player. Sometimes that's because they're the healer, sometimes it's just because they're the best one on their team. Only here do people claim they have a right not to be focused down by the opposing side.
Camping is defending a killer objective. The killer is there to kill. This isn't the same as spawn camping in mp games, as the rescue Mechanics are literally built in. In any other game with a "prisoner" mechanic, you'll find them to be guarded. The smart move is generally to slam the gens out, which leads to nonsense term 3.
Genrushing is a term that was originally made in jest, until some people started taking it seriously. There's no reason not to do the gens as quickly as possible, unless you suspect noed and want time to count totems. However that, much like tunneling and camping, is purely a subjective tactical decision made by the players involved.
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By that logic hooking a survivor at all would be taking the game hostage for them. As they have the exact same level of agency whether or not the killer is there. Just hanging out.
Also yes, a survivor most certainly can do nothing. I'm assuming you meant to type "A survivor can't do anything" which again, isn't dependent on whether the killer is there or not.
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So are you saying that the game's state is fine as is?
Cuz I've been seeing a whole lot of "killers have to camp/tunnel to win" and "survivors need to gen rush to win", but you seem to believe these are nonsensical hissyfits made by entitled parties.
The chances are completely different. I think you know this better than I do.
Having a killer camp and not camp makes a WHOLE difference in survival rates. Camping closes it down to zilch.
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Yeah, being hooked is part of the game. You still play and can watch what your team is doing.
Here comes the Team aspect again. You need your teams help in this case. (If you are camped by Bubba your team should probably sacrifice you to escape)
You can run Deliverance and maybe self unhook but thats it. Same while being slugged. If you don´t have a perk for this situation you need your team to help you.
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More or less, yes. We don't have infinite decisive and loops, actual facecamping was removed years ago. People don't come to this forum Happy. They generally come here after having a few bad games, so it tilts the entire environment here. The biggest real issue with the game, imo is that the matchmaking prioritizes queue times instead of even matches, fix that and it's all good
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No, that's not "playing" at all. That's not what it means. That's just having the game turned on.
People turn on DBD to actually PLAY the darn game. You know, press Shift W, M1, ctrl from time to time... Not to sit and watch a teammate aura simulator.
And do you think people don't know how to fight against a camper? The problem is in most games where most of the players are solos, it's VERY difficult to rescue someone without replacing him or her. And that means, the last person to be downed is going to be unlucky goat that gets sacrificed for a camper's greed.
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It does not meet the devs' requirements of the definition of "holding the game hostage."
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You are actively on hook. In the first phase you don´t have to do anything in the second you have to press Space.
That is a part of the game - if you like it or not. You know -> Team. So you want to unhook others too as you now how it sucks. (Unless its Bubba)
And the simple solution is - don´t get caught first.
If you don´t like this at all DBD is maybe not the right game for you.
There is also another player - the killer - which only goal it is to kill you all. And he has to hook you all. Multiple times or defend the first hook long enough. That is also part of the game.
With your logic you would always play and never get hooked. You can do this if you are good enough.
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I'm already stood corrected by the other DBD forum users.
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But isn't that stuff that happens in many games. Don't want to fight I just thought about my brother who plays a lot of shooter and there it's pretty common to start a round get a head shot and then you spectate the rest of the round waiting for your mates or leave to play the next
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"not intended"
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Why is it always extreme cases with you people? Either play all you want or not play at all?
Your mindset is quite baffling not to mention unreasonable. You really think "winning" in this game is to get 4ks or finish 5 gens and exit? If so, then it clearly explains why you have such impulsive thinking. If not, I would like for you to elaborate.
What happened to actually using mind games and playing fairly? Is DBD so desperate that players need to resort to cheap cheese tactics instead of actually trying to learn how to play the game properly?
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Play support in Overwatch. If the other team has any clue what they are doing, a good half your time will be running back from the spawn points. Just how pvp works
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Yes, it does happen often. But head shots in FPS games are literally designed to take you out by the devs. Camping is a so-called "strategy" with no gameplay design intended for its purpose.
Devs did mention this that it was never intended to be part of the game, but they can't say it's "wrong" to camp. It should be frowned upon though.
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Kills=Skill - a lot use tunnel and camp.
I play both sides, more casual, and am somewhat in mid MMR i think.
For me proxy camping happens sometimes (and am not saced and died on 1st hook) and i camp sometimes (against annoying teams).
I die often and don´t think it is that big of a deal as it is still a game. People here take this already waayy too serious.
I wonder that people don´t want to accept that there are situations where thing are going downhill and you lose. Be angry for a short time and go to the next game. Not really a problem.
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So this further reinforces my points: That DBD players are so desperate to "win" that they resort to cheap tactics to achieve whatever "skill" they personally want to achieve.
And you talk about fighting a losing battle. Yes, I also accept a losing battle when I have less capable teammates or I'm up against more skillful survivors. But being camped is not a losing battle. It's a lost one and I couldn't do anything about it.
A losing battle at least leaves me a chance to fight. Camping does not. Big fundamental differences here.
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This entire thread is based off a false premise. Camping is intended, and it’s a strategy the devs have explicitly verbatim accepted is a strategy, and have balanced this game around. Animation grabs exist so you cannot just do things in a killer’s face without severe consequences. Getting in a killer’s attack range means being hit (usually), such as in chase. Ignoring the killer outright to do actions in front of them means you go down, because you are not supposed to be able to just do that.
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This is a pointless exchange, because BHVR do not classify 'holding the game hostage' in the same way as you, and they get to set the rules for their game.
They've expressly said that facecamping, while something they want to eliminate, is not against the rules. But holding the game hostage is. Thus, the two have a different definition - as others in this thread have explained to you.
There are still defacto infinites against certain killers.
How was 'actual' facecamping removed, exactly?
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Facecamping is a real plague im all with you on that if you proxi because there is stuff around to check that's fine just standing there is super boring for the jiller himself. Only time I camp is when the doors are open because I think then it's Okey or when I find someone that wants my attention so much he literally begs for it
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Some want to win, yes. And some try as hard as possible. On both sides.
Maybe i don´t get camped so extremely often - that may be related to MMR. I also escape a lot of times.
You could not have been caught, then you would not have been camped.
So the fight is to not get caught - see it as if you are hooked your lost.
But also don´t dc or k1ll yourself - that is annoying for your team.
I often thought i lost - got downed and hooked first and tunneled to second - got saved and escaped. These are the moments which feel really great for me.
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But don't get downed is just a stupid argument because the game is designed that the killer downs you sooner or later
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And the game is designed that the killer kills you sooner or later.
Except you are better and he doesn´t kill you and you escape.
I think the argument is not so stupid.
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Have you ever seen me complain about gen rushing? No, you haven't. I don't give a damn about how people play their games as long as they're not cheating.
So either you don't know what "go both ways" means, or you just suck at your own mental gymnastics.
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Whether it was intended or not doesn't matter anymore. They've already recognized it as a valid strategy.
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It's not nearly the same as the old infinites of 2016, those were trash.
Also trash? You had to be exactly in front of the hook to save teammates, meaning any killer could literally hook someone, then sit in that spot and go afk. That's what facecamping actually is/was. They fixed it, so that can't happen, you can unhook from any angle, and people actually have to defend the hook, rather than standing afk. (Which is why I think it's a good fix for the pig camping a single box thing)
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Camping is intended. It was even illustrated as the intended strategy in the original DBD "How to Play Killer" videos that were included originally with the base game, before the playable tutorial was implemented.
When killers are camping, they are not taking the game hostage. They are not cheating. They are not abusing anything. It's not the killers job for survivors to have fun. It's the killers job to kill you. Let me know when survivors stop running Dead Hard/Unbreakable, or don't break my devour totem immediately at the start of the game just so I can have more fun.
Spoiler: Will never happen.
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Well I do have an idea - how about just take the loss and move on? Struggle for as long as you can to help as many teammates as possible escape? If the killer is fine with ending the game with just a few thousand bloodpoints, who are you to stop him?
Entitled survivors like you seem to think the killer should give everyone a fair chance, that the killer should 2 hook everyone first before getting people out of the game, otherwise they are "abusing their power". To quote a statement from yours truly, "that's the most childish thing I've read on this forum until this day."
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Who said camping is not intended?
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I mean, sure that's an option, but I'm just saying if they do camp, and sometimes you'll get lucky and they panic and hit the survivor on the hook while still in the animation and then you both get away
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Also on the topic the hook grabs are so fickle that killers are most likely going to swipe instead of grab
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And once again, I'm not inclined to believe that you have any experience with actual toxic killers or have played enough of survivors to fathom the problem with camping in general
Well, I've got nearly 2,000 hours in-game, and my dbd stats indicate a fair number of those were as survivor. So yeah, you can believe what you like. The evidence is on my side though.
Entitlement? So you think it's fine for someone to bully another? Is that victim entitlement as well?
If you thinking camping is bullying, then yes, absolutely. You've adopted a victim mentality. Camping is a strategy. You may not like it, but you can't deny it.
Another unlettered argument.
Yet you were unable point out a single flaw with it. You do realise that just because you say so does not shape reality?
So out of 6 total hits you are given per match, you're telling me that losing one third of that is justifiable to be camped?
Absolutely. Maybe you only got caught towards the end of the match and the killer has no choice to camp or "lose" the game. It's a way to put pressure on the others to either come and rescue you (and potentially get hooked themselves).
You seem to have some entitlement to presume that you have to be allowed to be unhooked, etc. This is plain survivor entitlement. You have no right to this. You can expect it from good team mates and a killer who isn't sweating, but it's not something you're entitled to, else it'd be baked within the game.
Unless there is a mechanism that forces killers to move to an objective regardless of the input being given from the player, the killer is not obligated to budge.
Oh good, glad you've recognised the killer isn't obligate to budge. Ergo, camping is fine.
Meaning, camping killers are going to camp regardless.
Yup. Don't get caught, and if you do, learn from your mistakes and move on.
Instead of actually seeing how forcing a person to stay on hook for an ENTIRETY of a match can be distressing and discouraging for people to play
If someone is distressed because they're playing a PvP game and lost, then I'd question whether they should be playing at all! More fool that person, I say.
I like scares... but I don't go into a horror movie and start crying because I got scared. That's just stupid.
The people who paid good money to play a game should not be abused by others to the point they're either waiting to die on the hook or DC.
Again, it's not abuse. It's literally game mechanics. You keep projecting your subjective perspective onto others.
And you're also failing to see the other side... the killers who've paid good money to play a camping killer - which is permitted by game design - are entitled to play as they wish. It's a PvP survival game... it's not a nursery designed to appease your whims.
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So its ok to do it as a survivor but if the killer trys to outsmart it, its not ok?
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because there is a huge difference between a Killer camping a hook and a Killer defending their hook.
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When you're on the first hook, you can literally attempt to kobe. You've got an 11.5% chance to make it off the hook.
Also, when you're on the second stage, there's literally a mini skill-check game.
So, if you're just having the game turned on and not doing anything, you're not doing it right 😂
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Killers can still hit survivors unhooking another survivor.. Then hit them again forcing a trade. I don't see why a trade should be more normalized than a face camping killer to be allowed to guarantee a kill on the hooked survivor and then grab anyone healthy who tries to unhook the person on the hook.
I just don't get it. A lot of the people in this thread really just think you should do gens and leave/the killer should get that 1 guaranteed kill if they face camp like that's the way this game is intended to be played. How is that fun on either side? I could never face camp as a killer that just isn't fun to me. This game is best enjoyed when chasing/being chased, hiding/looking for the survivors and interacting with other players in general rather than sitting in one spot for the majority of the match.
And I understand killers who face camp mid match / end game but I still think giving the person on the hook a chance to escape that situation if someone else is willing to sacrifice themselves is fair. I start to have a problem with face camping when killers just do it on their first hook and force the other survivors to rush gens / secure their first kill then segue into their late game builds which usually involve no way out, noed etc where they try to get additional kills for minimal effort.
Face camping makes people quit playing the game and as long as it exists and is popularized/meta (thanks sbmmr) it just makes it less appealing to play this game tbh. And that's OK, there are plenty of other great games out rn for people to play
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It's only frowned upon by you and others who haven't figured out how to outplay a camper. Like I said, this is how the game is to be played. Sorry you think the killer's should just let survivors escape. Maybe someday you'll get over it? Or just continue to complain about things you can't control. That's up to you.
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Thanks for pointing out the parallel to the old hatch standoff. Its actually one of the major reasons why I made the thread. I tried making the question more neutral, but I guess I failed on that aspect. I thought they didn't like face camping because of the talk about making Borrowed Time base kit, but I must have misremembered.
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Insidious exists. Yes it's intended lmao
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About the "6 hits" I suppose then you're not using med kits, dead hard (because it is a free button pass to a hit) or hatch sure? because hatch if gens are not repaired is another unfair chance right?
I suppose your answer will be something trashy like of course survivors deserve 2323423432234324234 tries to escape, but killers can't camp or tunnel if needed to stop the gen rush
The meta game now is clear, kill one survivor fast or you're done, most killers that doesn't have map control NEEDS to kill one survivor ASAP, fix gen rush and I'm sure less killers won't camp and tunnel.
also its just a game, camping is a gambling, if the team keeps doing gens the killer is done with depip and 1 hook in the game so its your team fault too if they go into the killer plan :)
TL;DR: if a killer camp there is counterplay, for the rest of the team do gens and the killer is done, depip and game finished
for the camped one, click the play again button its not a big deal :)
a lot of unfair things should be fixed before camping
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So you have no idea how MMR works.
" You really think "winning" in this game is to get 4ks or finish 5 gens and exit? If so, then it clearly explains why you have such impulsive thinking. If not, I would like for you to elaborate.
What happened to actually using mind games and playing fairly?"
According to the devs, for the killer winning is precisely getting 4ks as kills are the only thing that counts towards MMR. Therefore the devs are very clearly saying "Get kills any way you can" is the way to play the game. Similarly, escapes are the only things that count towards MMR for survivors and again, the devs are very clearly saying "The way to play the game as survivor is to ensure that you escape".
Pretty cut & dried.
As to your final statement, mind games are great for getting kills and so therefore you'll still see them. As for "playing fairly"...you're joking, right? This is an asymmetrical game where the slightest mistake on the killer's part is heavily punished and they can't relax for a second. I'm afraid you'll have to turn in your copy of the survivor handbook because nobody is going to adjust their playstyle just to suit your view of how the game should be.
Post edited by Gcarrara on1 -
Let me group ya'll together so I don't need to make two separate long answers.
I don't use addons, use Dead Hard (I actually despise that perk actually. Such a selfish perk. I even ranted about it in one of my discussions. Go check it out, I recommend it 😎) or bully the killer.
But when I started playing DBD, I played it as a fun little horror hide & seek game. And the devs have also iterated that this was the idea behind the game's inception as well.
Now, I don't know when this game became a competitive game, but it's not and will never be. It doesn't share the common characterisitcs of a competitive game therefore it isn't one.
Camping is for those who take the game WAY too seriously and want to win in the cost of other's expenses. What happened to playing the game your best, own up to your mistakes and just typing GG WP at the end chat?
Woops sorry, it's 2022 we're talking about isn't it? My bad. lol
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I've only gotten 200 hours but I decided to binge it lately after a long break. Not super impressed with how the game turned out. It's either dedicated focused tunneling or facecamping until death and both scenarios are just...boring. You can bring BT or DS but that really doesn't do much since the killers focus hard on you regardless. I don't get to use most of my perks or use interesting perk combos.
I think the frustration kinda reached the end point and I'll end up taking a break again. I really hope the game gets better in the future because it wasn't this bad. It never used to happen every. single. game.
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Sorry to hear about that. But appreciate you chipping in. Yeah, take that break, the game isn't super kind at this time.
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I'm sorry, but your post is simply a re-iteration of "This is how I want to play the game and therefore others should do the same".
You're certainly entitled to have that position but I'm afraid it's unrealistic to expect others to accept that.
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I mean, if devs are planning a way to nerf the hateful facecamp (hope they compensate buffinng killers, cause sometimes facecamp in needeed, like on endgame), regole hook grabs could be a good idea to start with.
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What gives me to understand is that when DBD was created, the devs wanted to give a horror experience to the game, which the killer after taking a surv he could do whatever he wanted, from putting it on the hook, even letting it die on the ground, kill with memento, or leave the surv on the hook and try to catch the others, I don't see problems in these rules, the real problem is that there are killers that can knock you down at the beginning of the game or grab you in generator or interrupting you from save others, and this ends up causing survs disgust because when they are caught they just can't do anything, and when they get off the hook they risk being caught again.
That's why after a while, perks like unbreakable, DS, BT, MoM started to appear, to give survs more chances not to die right away in the match, but the killers understood this as a way to help survs to win matches, but in fact this happened with the experience that many players received over time and it was this mess we have today
What surprises me is that they never created an anti-camper or anti-catch perk that was actually effective.
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