Why are Nurse and Blight so common yet Spirit isn’t?
At least in my experience. Nurse and Blight are way too common in my games but I have seen only 13 Spirits since her nerf 6 months ago (yes I have counted). I don’t get it when Spirit is arguably in the same tier as they are. Also Spirit feels very fun and rewarding to play (I am not trying to say that Nurse and Blight aren’t to others, I’m just talking about Spirit).
Does anyone else feel the same way?
Comments
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Because she now takes half a braincell and you can't slap on 3x regression + stridor. MDR + DCB is too expensive to feasibly use every game when 4x slowdown Blight/range+recharge Nurse is right there
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Do people not get bored of using Blight and Nurse like that every game?
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Because Spirit sucks, bro. I never saw her when her nerfs were announced, never see her now, and saw her just a sliver more before her nerfs. Some killers, like Spirit, Artist, and Hag, only interest a niche portion of the community, because I've never thought Spirit was THAT fun, and Hag and Artist are lots of fun to me yet boring to others. But imo Spirit didn't need to be nerfed except one or two specific things, and now nobody wants to play her, especially since people still think she's OP, because who wants to get into a killer who's probably gonna get nerfed soon, due to 'popular demand', at a point in the game where pretty much no killer needs nerfing?
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Because she is overrated. She is easy to counter, bring Iron Will or camp pallets and stun her. Or simply walk.
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It’s fine if you don’t find her fun but don’t act like she’s not a good killer.
You know she has two add ons that counter pallet camping right? Even if she didn’t, she can still manage it by simple pressing space bar and catching up with great speed.
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Because Blight and Nurse have more cake and Spirit is only sporting flat pancakes.
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nah they find the fun in winning so they use the best things to win. no shame in it
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It’s still good enough to do this:
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Hate to break it to you, but spirit is not as strong anymore. When alternative is losing or playing nurse & blight, players choose alternative. I have not seen much spirit ever since they weaken Stridor. Its like as soon as Stridor was weakened, Spirit disappeared.
Spirit got demoted to an art-appreciation relic that nobody wants to play. I remember 3 years ago, her pick-rate was like highest in the game, even past huntress. Now she is a true ghost. Just another Billy.
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I do feel for people with hearing issues. That’s why they should’ve kept Father’s Glasses and possibly made it a lower rarity.
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She used to be brain dead easy. Now she takes a bit of effort. Add to that I don't think very many people enjoy playing as her, they just liked winning.
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She is very much a great killer. Have you played her at all since her nerf?
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I don’t think she was brain dead but her skill cap wasn’t big or anything.
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In my time playing, most Blight and Nurse players have zero idea what they're doing and what they've got themselves into. Most of them are what I like to call, "Tier-List hoggers" where they just look up on Google "DBD Tier-List (Insert Current Month/Year Here)" and they see whos in S Tier or SS Tier and then they play that killer, completely unaware that Blight and Nurse take a-lot of experience and hours to get to that point of being a S Tier or SS Tier killer.
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But shouldn’t we say the same about Spirit? People put her high on the tier list.
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Because she doesn’t have the OP phase power. She’s fine now and fun to play against.
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Hey TheGannMan, huge respect, but spirit is just no longer fun to play for me. She is hard countered by iron will and at high MMR I find survivors just toy with me. Also sounds get bugged at the worst times and tracking is a nightmare. It just isn’t fun. Why would I spend my valuable time off of work…working?
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She’s always been fine 😏
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After the Stridor nerf she became unplayable for me, only to bullied by iron will users. Useless now.
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Because she got gutted and has too much counter play now.
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I get it but it all takes practice and experience. Use short bursts against Iron Will users and don’t try to go for big mind games against them. She can be hard at times but she’s very rewarding and fun.
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Legion has too much counterplay yet they’re common?
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If they were losing then yes they would get bored. But because blight and nurse lead to wins, then no it’s Not boring. Remember when one side is winning then that side doesn’t complain at all
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Use short bursts against IW users.
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True. Luckily I find fun in this game fun.
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"Gutted" would imply they completely nerfed her power even though it's exactly the same on a mechanical level
Survivors just have an actual way to respond to it now. She still moves faster than them, she still can't be looped as easily as other killers can and the information survivors get isn't 100% perfect - it's vague enough for it to be fair imo.
If they had left in the dust footsteps as well, I might've agreed with it being a straight up gut since that is almost perfect info, rendering the invisible part of her power pointless
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Spot on
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Nurse and Blight are the better killers now for ease of use and winning
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Hey Gann, mind hitting me with a few favourite Spirit builds you find competitive against SWF’s? I will give her another shot out of respect buddy. Any perks, got them all unlocked.
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Well if you wants viable competitive build then try Mother-Daughter Ring + Furin + DMS with an info perk like BBQ or Discordance.
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""Gutted" would imply they completely nerfed her power even though it's exactly the same on a mechanical level"
No, it's not. The mechanic was completely changed. The change doesn't have to literally be on the killer, it can be on how the survivors play against her which in turn does affect how she has to play.
"Survivors just have an actual way to respond to it now."
They did before, most were just not good at critically thinking how.
"She still moves faster than them, she still can't be looped as easily as other killers can and the information survivors get isn't 100% perfect - it's vague enough for it to be fair imo."
Speed is literally all she has now. She can be looped very easily and yes the information they get is 100% unless you're literally playing without headphones. There is zero vagueness to it whatsoever.
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add onto this pain resonance + another slowdown perk like corrupt, pop, or ruin.
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True.
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Her power had no information or tell for survivors to use, there was no phasing sound while in the terror radius which gave way to the classic "haha i stood still" thing which I'm glad barely happens anymore because there was no skill to it. You claim survivors had ways to respond to it, which yeah - the main response was guessing
She has speed, which doubles as a chasing and mobility tool. She limits survivors visibility and information on her while in chase. Not to mention she counters shift + W like Blight does. She has a lot more going for her than most killers
It's not fair to say she was gutted, she's still a very strong killer.
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Cos she's really add on reliant and takes more skill than before. W keyers are also incredibly unfun to verse and I have a curse of Overcome whenever I play her.
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I don’t think she is add on reliant. She can do well without MDR+DCB.
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"Her power had no information or tell for survivors to use, there was no phasing sound while in the terror radius which gave way to the classic "haha i stood still" thing which I'm glad barely happens anymore because there was no skill to it. You claim survivors had ways to respond to it, which yeah - the main response was guessing"
She had tons of counter play before. You're looking for information or a tell on survivor because you don't understand how you were supposed to play against Spirit. If you were looking for feedback from Spirit before you were playing incorrectly. Spirit asked you to play against her differently than other killers. You had no play pro-actively, not re-actively. You take advantage of her lack of information to give her false information. IE misleading footsteps, run to window and fast vault to slow vault back over. You control the feedback you give her to manipulate her.
Stand still. You break line of sight or force her to phase by faking that you've committed to a run.
Playing as Spirit currently after the changes is a guessing game, but hey, it's on killer, so that's okay.
"She has speed, which doubles as a chasing and mobility tool. She limits survivors visibility and information on her while in chase. Not to mention she counters shift + W like Blight does. She has a lot more going for her than most killers"
Speed is all she has now. Which she also had those addons gutted. VIsibility is irrelevant when you hear where she's at during phasing, she might as well be visible. The information she's giving is not limited when you can tell exactly where she's at. She counter some hold W, however now you're at a loop with your power on cd waiting. Those cd seconds matter more than people like to admit.
"It's not fair to say she was gutted, she's still a very strong killer."
She's still "good". Definitely no where near the top tier anymore though. Her drop was far enough that it warrants the term "gutted".
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You say "take advantage of her lack of information"
Meanwhile you hear Ash Williams groaning at 800% volume because the Spirit had stridor. Even without Stridor, to even pull off what you're implying was her "counter play" you needed iron will/lucky break/fixated - perks like that. Perk reliant counterplay isn't exactly great if you ask me but it is what it is.
I'm sorry but most players who played old Spirit didn't play base spirit with random perks - they played Stridor Spirit with anti-healing perks usually and it's obvious why.
Maybe this is just me so the following comment is me speaking for myself: Playing Spirit isn't a guessing game. I don't have problems hearing survivors. Yes Iron will is annoying but once I've been hit by it, I know it's there and can adjust accordingly. Iron will doesn't make survivors just disappear.
Also again the information survivors have is limited, you hear which direction she is moving but not exactly where she is. It's still very possible to use it mid chase.
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Not even them add-ons, she needs some form of "catch up" add on in order to cope with people running in a straight line (charge speed, speed, duration) unless you want to walk as a 110 killer for a while or have a small, easy-to-zone map.
I usually never run add-ons on killer but she's one of the 3 killers I always run add-ons for, the other 2 being Billy and Onryo. I just find her so boring without charge speed.
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The nerf seperated the good spirits from the bad ones. And there were a lot of bad ones...
Basically she requires actual effort now that survivors can make plays against her power, while the options against nurse and blight are usually limited.
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Well she has add ons like that that are brown and yellow, and there’s a lot of them. So they are easy to obtain.
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I guess that’s true
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"Meanwhile you hear Ash Williams groaning at 800% volume because the Spirit had stridor. Even without Stridor, to even pull off what you're implying was her "counter play" you needed iron will/lucky break/fixated - perks like that. Perk reliant counterplay isn't exactly great if you ask me but it is what it is."
No, you don't. You don't need any of those perks to do what I'm talking about. Also mentioning one very loud survivor has no relevance to anything we're talking about.
"I'm sorry but most players who played old Spirit didn't play base spirit with random perks - they played Stridor Spirit with anti-healing perks usually and it's obvious why."
Never said they did play with random perks. Them running meta Spirit perks changes nothing I've said.
"Maybe this is just me so the following comment is me speaking for myself: Playing Spirit isn't a guessing game. I don't have problems hearing survivors. Yes Iron will is annoying but once I've been hit by it, I know it's there and can adjust accordingly. Iron will doesn't make survivors just disappear."
I'd argue you're playing against low mmr players then. Iron Will forces short burst phasing and "guessing".
"Also again the information survivors have is limited, you hear which direction she is moving but not exactly where she is. It's still very possible to use it mid chase."
Against even mildly good survivors they know exactly where you're at. Against low mmr/average players who don't know what they're doing, sure this is all relevant.
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It has relevance because the spirit has a lot of information when a survivor is injured, it's no longer equal. It went from "You can't see the survivor and they can't see you" to "You can't see or hear her and she can hear your groans of pain". Giving survivors something to work with made this less lopsided and more fair. In general Spirits had more information than the survivors did before her nerf. This is why Iron will became meta and why Stridor was the go-to spirit perk at the time. Facing a spirit without IW put you at such a big disadvantage.
I mentioned Ash not because it proves a point but because it's a funny example of how a survivor being loud just made it even easier for the spirit to down you while in phase.
You can argue I face "low mmr" survivors if you want, but my response to that would be: "I don't know and I don't care" because I don't know my MMR, I face survivors who are good at the game, that's all I think is relevant.
Trying to discredit my arguments by saying I'm facing low MMR players seems rather unfair if you ask me but hey - it's your opinion you're entitled to it.
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Those 14 people who used to play her without stridor kept playing her because she is fundamentally the same killer.
The rest just refused to actually learn her and moved on to playing blight and nurse. Games play themselves anyway when you just put 3-4 slowdown perks, like they used to with stridor spirit. And buffed DMS is just the cherry on the cake.
I mean, on nurse/blight you need to actually try not to win when stacking up all those perks. Spirit still requires some effort, even though she's arguably the third strongest killer, with still a strong power
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I don’t understand it. People really used my girl because of their own benefit of winning. It’s sad to hear that they never played her because they found her enjoyable.
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Because people overestimate her nerfs. She’s still a very good killer, she’s just the 3rd best instead of the 2nd best.
And yes as already mentioned you can’t run MDR/DCB every game and some people don’t want to learn how to get good at her without them.
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Hope they can nerf Nurse and Blight so the true queen can actually be the best :)
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"It has relevance because the spirit has a lot of information when a survivor is injured, it's no longer equal. It went from "You can't see the survivor and they can't see you" to "You can't see or hear her and she can hear your groans of pain"."
The inverse is also true. You had all the advantage prior to being injured. That's fair.
"Giving survivors something to work with made this less lopsided and more fair"
No, it made it unbalanced and gave everything to the survivors control.
"In general Spirits had more information than the survivors did before her nerf."
If you didn't they wouldn't make much since as a killer would they. That's part of what made them strong.
"Facing a spirit without IW put you at such a big disadvantage."
Still very winnable if the survivors were even semi decent.
"I mentioned Ash not because it proves a point but because it's a funny example of how a survivor being loud just made it even easier for the spirit to down you while in phase.
You were being hyperbolic. Most survivors aren't that loud.
"You can argue I face "low mmr" survivors if you want, but my response to that would be: "I don't know and I don't care" because I don't know my MMR, I face survivors who are good at the game, that's all I think is relevant. Trying to discredit my arguments by saying I'm facing low MMR players seems rather unfair if you ask me but hey - it's your opinion you're entitled to it."
Facing higher mmr vs facing low mmr is a completely different game. It may seem like a simple way to discredit you but the mmr difference matters. High mmr Spirit gets looped pretty easy now.
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Survivors make breathing noises when they are running, so again it's not exactly equal.
Also I'm sorry but it almost certainly didn't give it all to the survivors, I don't think that makes any logical sense. The survivor physically can't see what you're doing, they only know if you're phasing and which direction you're moving in. It's not perfect information as I keep saying
So you admit the Spirit had more information to work with than survivors, thus making it unfair? Because survivors had no information and now they have some. Personally I think you vastly overestimate how much of a nerf it actually is. Besides the point too, maybe spirit is a bit weaker but it was a healthy change overall.
Yes, I was being hyperbolic - you're right. Because I was highlighting the bigger problem of Spirit having way more information than the survivors did back then. Some survivors having an inherent disadvantage against a killer was just a funny observation
Again I don't appreciate you trying to discredit my opinions based on nothing more than baseless assumptions. Somebody could just easily make the argument that you hold the opinions you do because you're simply bad at killer and unwilling to learn but that would not only be hypocritical but really dumb too because it's completely baseless.
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