"Rewarding bad play" is not an argument against NOED
If that was some unforgivable aspect of a perk, then the following would need nerfs:
DH = activates when you get hit, poor play
IW = same as above
Unbreakable = activates when you get downed, poor play
DS = activates on being hooked.
Coup = activates from losing gens
Fire Up = same as above
Beast of Prey, etc etc.
The problems with NOED have to do with the fact that the ideal counterplay has to be done before you can know they have it, or else they can hook next to the totem and get a completely free kill etc. It has nothing to do with rewarding 'bad play', certainly not with this meta's gen speeds. Certainly not when the presence of perks like NOED and NWO clearly shows that planning for endgame is an expected Killer playstyle
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The argument is the how much it rewards, not that it rewards.
Perks are meant as enhancements barring meme cases like no mither. So, the fact that it rewards a good, bad, or no play even, is effectively not an argument in itself.
Noed is a cover-all because it counters its counters. Slowdown and snowball. It's a lose-lose for the survivors who might be still get hit by it if they miss a single totem and wasted time. So, it's not even true the user only has 3 perks until emdgame. It also ensures 2k min by just standing in front of your first down because it's either gens or bones against a facecamp. Truly a design fiasco.
It's a divisive topic, but also a moot one. Unless a certain dev who use it permanently suddenly decides it needs changes because it messed with him Huntress' Lullaby style. Otherwise, noed won't be touched. And all these discussions will be nothing but an exercise in futility.
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There is nothing wrong with noed.
The only thing that is bad about noed is it's way it boosts kill rates, same as rancor can.
I do feel alot of the hate towards NOED is the entitlement of Escaping, I'd be okay with a change as it wouldn't impact me.
If it stays how it is that's perfectly okay but I will say if you are a noed user YOU ARE HOLDING BACK KILLER BUFFS BY BOOSTING KILL RATES. But that the killer side of me talking and I avoid playing killer now
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There’s nothing wrong with the idea of an endgame perk for either side. The issue is how much it rewards you for accomplishing nothing. It’s too big of an effect for what its trigger condition is, even for a hex perk.
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Yeah Yeah, doing nothing all game and getting a big BOOM ability in endgame is totally fine. Hilarious.
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There is no problem with NOED. It's pure entitlement, not only do the survivors hold all the power over it's use, it requires getting hit which is the survivors fault. Unlike many survivor perks that reward misplay.
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I think NOED is fine as is. Survivors have a ton of second chance perks, so killers get theirs during the end game. The big 3 are: NOED,No Way Out, and Blood Warden. Yea I agree it does kind of reward bad players, but eventually most will get better at the game and move away from it. If it gives them value, then that means they’ll enjoy killer more and Que up more for it. Even in 2022, knowing NOED exists still gives me a bit of an adrenaline rush and anxiety (in a good way) if I’m in chase healthy, and the last gen is being worked on. I can usually\ tell who may have it by t\he way they play. Yea it sucks running them for 3 gens only to get smacked by it because of the speed boost. But I just take my medicine and move on to the next match. Sometimes you get lucky and your teammates find the hex and get you off and out the trial. Makes for really good games.
‘I have a few small game/counter force builds too, that are really fun when you prevent NOED from even popping, then seeing it on the post game screen after everyone escaped. Feels good.
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Survivor input controls NoED, but instead they claim it 'rewards doing nothing' instead of the more accurate 'Punishes Survivors for not doing bones'.
Because one sounds like a flaw (It rewards NOTHING!), and the other sounds like a balanced perk & Survivor's fault (It punishes us for ignoring totems!).
But as we all know; Survivors are never at fault and even Killer's winning is toxic, so Survivors run around screaming the perk is OP, or unfun, or whatever. 😁
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Right and Adrenaline bailing out Survivors that got outplayed and all the second chance perks available to Survivors throughout the course of a match are flawless and working as intended
People like you are exactly why the game is dying a slow death, You don't play both sides and cry about things you don't like while conveniently ignoring your many benefits on the same topics
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Right.
Doing the bones is also a part of the game. Not only finishing the gens.
You have to escape also. The game is not over when all 5 gens are powered.
Most killers don´t have enough time to protect all 5 gens from getting done. He has to also take the time after that into account.
You often see half of some games happen after the gens are done.
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It's been stigmatised for years thanks to the narrative pushed by streamers and the weird bully culture that surrounds DBD in general
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The semantics are whatever. It doesn't necessarily reward bad play. It's just bad design to have it be a Hex that only activates at end game. A team isn't beating any good killer if they spend time finding and cleansing 5 dulls. And then you get Leatherface players who slap on NOED/Deadlock and facecamp two survivors while the gens are up, then NOED a 3rd if the timing works.
Just put NOED on a 40 second timers or something and actually notify players when it activates. It feels like BS. Your players have been overwhelmingly saying it feels like BS for years. Change it.
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Your players have been overwhelmingly saying it feels like BS for years. Change it.
No. Lazy Survivors have been saying it's BS for years. Not the entire player base.
Just put NOED on a 40 second timers or something and actually notify players when it activates.
And that would be useless.
- Survivors can easily run most the Killer roster for 40+ seconds. So much for hitting anyone.
- If Survivors are told when it activates; they will go totem hunting or leave. The Killer will never be able to actually get value out of it.
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NOED has always been very subjective to me, and do totems is correct, but there's always that feeling of being kinda cheap when it pops. Have always felt that way, for really no great reason.
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NOED is an overall loose loose. You cleanse all 5 bones well good job you took yourself out of the game for a few minutes allowing killer to stop gens and down teammates and you can’t trust your teammates they rarely do bones. And you ignore it and wait for the end proc the snowball could be too devastating and there’s no good play in the perk.
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If you can't down a survivor in under 40 seconds with the NOED speed boost at the end of a game when the resources are somewhat used, I don't know what to say about that.
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Well if you are relying on NOED to get kills you are kinda screwing yourself in the long run, as it gives you no incentive to improve and work on tactics to pressure gens more effectively.
Not saying killer is easy as it sure is not but I have to say that when I go against killers who are absolutely awful, I can almost guarantee they will have NOED and it will be a good idea to cleanse any dull I see. And sure enough, almost every time a bad killer will have NOED.....
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Thats what i mean.
"A team isn't beating any good killer if they spend time finding and cleansing 5 dulls."
They can do that - not everyone runs NOED - but if he has it - you haven´t beaten him. Because this is a part of the game you know about.
It is a gamble if you save the time knowingly. But then don´t cry.
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If you can't find one totem after popping 5 gens when the totem spawns are incredibly easy to memorize, I don't know what to say about that.
NoED is fine. Only Survivors who don't want to leave gens complain about it.
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That’s the issue teammates I was chased close to endgame gens pop downed by NOED it was in the corner of the map they couldn’t find it I’m camped to death or when it’s in a spot they can defend
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Then the Killer got lucky, seeing as he can't pick where NoED is and Survivors CAN.
Literally do bones unless you see one in an obvious area; leave that one. 5th gen pops; go look and see if it lit up.
If your entire team used their heads; this totem would be NoED, if it exists, and can be cleansed.
Heaven fregging forbid the Killer get value out of an end-game perk that spawns on a random totem. That's apparently not right, I guess.
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Whataboutism isn't an argument either.
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There shouldn’t be such a perk where it can give you such value for literally doing nothing and in close games where there simply isn’t good time to do bones then guess what it’s a loose loose paired with say No Way Out it’s devastating
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Honestly, for the first time in the 5 years i've been playing, I actually don't disagree. Specifically because of how fast gens go even if you are applying a lot of pressure, or god forbid you are trying to play nice and two hook everyone before killing. I don't blame survivors for this because its literally their only objective but a game being 5 minutes or less is actually ridiculous.
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There shouldn’t be such a perk where it can give you such value for literally doing nothing
I will say it again: NOED DOES NOT REWARD 'DOING NOTHING'. IT PUNISHES SURVIVORS FOR NOT DOING BONES. How is that hard to understand? How?
in close games where there simply isn’t good time to do bones then guess what it’s a loose loose
Oh WOW! The Killer brought a strong perk and in a close game it tipped it over into a win!? How OP! Better nerf or remove it! Killers cannot WIN! That's not how the game works! 😱
paired with say No Way Out it’s devastating
Strong perk combos?! Not on Survivor's watch! Only Survivors get second chance perks and perk combos! Nerf anything that gives Killers these things! Second chance, end game, and combos are Survivor-only concepts!
I apologize for the sarcasm but it's the same tired 'arguments'. Killers can't have second chance perks, Killers can't have end-game perks. Killers are 'failing' if 5 gens pop. Killers 'do nothing' and get rewarded.
And none of them are at all correct.
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So wait you’re suggesting to me that I believe perks like Dead Hard is fine? It’s the same lazy second chance perk that gives you bugged for nothing like NOED. And someone can use those same arguments for Dead Hard is fine. So you think DH is fine?
1.Just do bones, just wait it out both aren’t consistently plausible
2.Just a strong perk combo, so DS and UB and DH and IW are acceptable too.
see the issue can’t say one is acceptable the other is not. There shouldn’t be such second chance perks on both sides especially when they give you so much for doing nothing. What does a killer have to do for NOED nothing. What does a survivor have to do for DH nothing.
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Lets see, the killer "failed" to stop the gens from being repaired? He gets a speed boost and exposed instant down capability.
That is indeed rewarding failure.
I've seen too many killers win only because of perks like NOED, Blood Warden, No Way Out. When slowdown perks weren't used.
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Don't you complain about slowdown perks too?
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I'm done here. You're ignoring facts to suit your narrative.
NoED. Does not. Reward. Doing. Nothing. This is not up for debate; this is fact. NoED punishes lazy survivors. Again; this is fact. Ignore it all you want; it will not change this fact.
DH does not reward doing nothing, either. It punishes Killers who get too greedy. If 'DH for distance' was not a thing (The devs have said this was not how the perk was intended); it would be perfectly fine.
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Keep getting carried by perks see you later
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I feel like this is a giant generalization. However, it did give me an idea. What if they reworked it so that there was a condition attached to the killer as well? Like, the killer must hook each survivor once in addition to its current design or Every survivor on death hook will suffer from the exposed status effect? That way its takes away the "doing nothing all game" and getting a big reward for bad players and rewards good players for playing well but simply not being able to match gen speeds.
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NOED is another perk that affects solos 10x more than swf. Against solos, NOED is guaranteed to go off and get even the worst killer at least one pity kill. Swfs can easily coordinate to either A) cleanse all totems before endgame or B) quickly locate NOED and go for a coordinated rescue.
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Keep whining about perfectly-fine perks. Have fun never learning form your losses.
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I do point out how overpowered stacking slowdown can be. Ruin+Undying and Scourage+Dead Man is very overpowered.
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The real problem is that NOED is weak vs SWF (like many killer perks, hmm.) not that it's sometimes effective vs Solo.
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Truth is, if the killer did nothing, survivors should have plenty of time doing totems, right?
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There's no logical way to say that it's totally fine that survivors can stack second chance perks to get 3/4/5 extra health states throughout the ENTIRE game, but then complain when 1 health state gets removed during egc. NOED secures 1 kill at most unless the survivors completely throw. It's like people forget what NOED actually does. It removes 1 health state. If losing a health states bothers you so much, then you should also be advocating to remove all second chance perks not just NOED.
Here's how I would fix NOED: each time a survivor uses a second chance perk, NOED gains a token (no longer a hex). If you want to benefit from having extra health states during the game, you now run the risk of losing a health state after the last gen pops/egc. Fair right?
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Honestly, even though I think you were being sarcastic with the suggestion, I actually love that. That would actually be a major buff and it kind of seems like a fair trade.
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Noed allow bad killer to get kills they don’t deserve and they feel they’re semigods in this game. Then they play with better survs and get 0k and come here crying and complaining. I can tell you some killers here that use noed for sure
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I don't use NOED, I just don't get much value from it but I firmly believe that NOED is fine. Also DH is fine.
Does every survivor who uses DH is making up for a mistake? No its not. Most of the time is a premeditated decision made in the knowledge that they have that tool. Sure, sometimes it is used to recover from a bad move, but not most of the time and in this situation almost always a second mistake will be made.
Does every NOED killer uses it to make up for losing the game? No, many use it as a premeditated strategy that comes to fruition in the endgame, with complementing perks and that requires early and midgame setting (pallet clearing, 1 or 2 hooks on everyone) so you blitz the survivors and snowball.
Getting to endgame with 2 hooks and a bunch of safe pallets still standing is going to end up with a 4e, NOED or not, 1k if the planets align.
Is it used by less skilled killers who play with a mind that they already lost and want to secure 1 kill? Sure, but I don't think it's the majority if people keep saying it's such a problem, because these players are gonna get stomped regardless 9 out of 10 and are not perceived as a problem.
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ive said this countless times
NOED is not a perk that rewards one side for doing something, its a perk that PUNISHES the other side for NOT doing something!
you can fail as hard as you want as a Killer, if they did bones NOED wont activate, period.
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If at all it could need a buff because it is already very fragile.
Every surv can just do totems and the perk is COMPLETELY gone before activating. (Can i do this with Dead Hard? I think not)
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You can do it with ds, bt and ub if you don’t camp/tunnel/slug. This is 3 meta perks useless
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Hello, dictep; I see you're still screaming complete lies. Ever get bored of being wrong?
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I asked about Dead Hard, not DS, BT or UB. For my part they are way weaker than DH.
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If only really bad killers that suck at the game use NOED and really bad killers cannot pressure survivors or end chases quickly then there's plenty of time to bust totems to prevent NOED
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So survivors doing their full objective (5 gens) arent allowed to get a bonus aka Adrenaline? You lack logic in all details. Players like you are the problem esp on this forum. No gamesense at all.
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If the killer played through a match with only 3 perks and you didn't get all the totems, then the killer earned it
If the killer is as bad as you say then you have time to cleanse or at least remember the locations to check later
If you're that fed up of noed and other hexes then run small game or detectives
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Imagine ignoring everything explained, having no argument besides "this is fine" and still trying to justify this dumbness of a perk. Really poor mindset.
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This is you in another thread complaining Basekit Nurse OP right? Don't ever talk about gamesense when you struggle with addon-less Nurse and only play one side of the game...
The audacity of you to talk about logic as well when you're crying about NOED rewarding people even though it requires you to play with 3 perks for a large part of the match in exchange for a bonus at the end....you know exactly like Adrenaline? The perk you're justifying like an obvious hypocrite 😂 With your post count compared to mine and your multiple bad takes I'd say you're more of a problem on this forum than me. Do Bones and get good please
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Coercing Survivors into the end-game is a popular and intentional strategy that you see daily. How can it be rewarding failure if somebody running something like NWO/NOED/Blood Warden WANTS the gens to be completed? I'll wait
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