Legion re-work only leading to more and more players quitting.
I'm genuinely curious, are they trying to make people stop playing?
The rework is a terrible, terrible design. If you're not playing with friends games become pointless even against a bad legion who doesn't understand the mechanics.
Am I missing something obvious here?
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Am I missing something obvious here?Git gud?
Joke aside, if you find it boring to see 3/4 of killers being legion, don't hesitate to take a break from the game. The changes are still quite new so it's normal a lot of people want to play him.
I don't find his rework "terrible" nor I think he has a "terrible design".
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You didn't really say anything of use there about the changes, elaborate?
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People will play a new killer/A reworked killer for about 2-4 weeks or less before the game returns to normal.
This always happens with every release and when it doesn't is usually means the worse for the killer's viability.
Also Legion is a notorious noob stomper and always has been.
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It doesn't make it fun at higher levels either, even with a good team it's not fun having your location visible practically 24/7?
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The issue with the rework is that it does not address the main problem, legion is boring to go against.
How a chase goes is legion sees you and runs at you with his feral frenzy. You try to run but vaulting a window is useless, running for distance is useless, and your only real defence (a pallet stun) is fairly easy to dodge. In theory they should hit you 99% of the time with their power. Once hit they do not continue the chase, but rather leave to go after somebody else. A good survivor knows this, and instead of trying and ultimately failing to loop them, they instead run to the corner of the map, for the best chance of the legion's power failing to reach a teammate. Once hit, said survivor begins healing. It is long and gets repetitive quickly. After they have finished mending they are now injured. Most legion's will run one if not multiple slow down perks, (sloppy, thanataphobia) to make this process even longer. Now they are injured, these players must make a choice, do they waste time healing, knowing they will inevitably be hit fairly soon again? Or do they play risky and play a large portion of the match injured? The answer is kind of both.
While most killers have a question of when and how are they going to use their power legion's question is do I heal or not? Its a really important question, don't heal and you can't stealth around him at all and will go down very fast. Heal and you may find yourself injured only a few seconds later. Its not very interesting. The hit and run strategy is the only way to play him and even then its only kind of effective. Play against a few of these in a row, and anyone would feel like giving up.
After a few weeks, killers will go back to their mains, some may start playing them more regularly, but I don't think he will played as much as he is now.
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Its tied to their Terror Radius.
This means if you spread out(Which is good to do in general) Legion can neither get multiple frenzy hits nor will they be able to detect anyone.
Also pre running the moment you see a deep wounds being applied while in their Terror Radius is a valid strategy as legion even with the speed boosts can't catch you if you pre run from the first hit.
This only works however is if you're not directly on top of your teammate when they get hit.
Finally you can tell if its Legion at the start of the game or not if you DON'T hear deathslinger's gun but still see deep wounds being applied.
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You didn't yourself said why these changes are terrible.
The Legion change only punishes survivor that don't split up more than before, adding a tiny bit of lethality.
Imo legion is pretty much the same as before looking toward counterplays: split up, heal only if you have strong healing abilities or a strong medkit.
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Yeah this is correct and point being even if you think you can outdo the mechanics, you have no chance on small / medium maps where can can run around the middle and see killer instinct.
Ultimately legion is not fun to play against and that alone ruins the game. A real shame the makers cannot see obvious things like this costing them more and more players each month.
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Realistically once you're out of bronze division none of this actually works, you can't really do gens when you're having to hide in corners of the map and legion is most definitely faster than you and is not effected by pallets or windows (pallet stun on legion only works against new players).
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So I just played against a legion with this combo and it was disgusting. Iridescent button: This addon breaks in pallet that he vaults over. Combined with Suzie's mixtape, which refills his power gauge when stunned. So every loop played like this.
I drop the pallet, he vaults over it, breaking the pallet in the process and hitting me. Or I successfully stun him, once the stun wears off his power is fully restored and then vaults over it hitting me? What even is that? Not even bother going to talk about strength, just how is that even a power at that point? He vaults anything, breaks every pallet, and stunning him is useless.
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Because unfortunately the developers are losing grips with the game itself and don't think about the consequences of their changes.
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once you're out of bronze divisionAre you aware ranks mean nothing except the time you spent on a month in the game? This is not a relevant statement. It also looks like you're relatively new to the game.
I recommend you to read this post and replies, you might learn some useful tips against legion: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/321740/how-to-counter-legion
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You answered yourself - spend more time = usually people get better.
The more important point being made here is this simply is not good game design and if you aren't playing with 3 other people who know exactly what to do, you may as well hook yourself.
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Legion's terror radius, by default, is 1/3 of most maps. (He covers around ~3k meters sq and maps are ~9k meters sq). Spreading out almost has no effect. The better option, maybe, is to run to a corner far from other survivors and let him down you there, which sucks and really needs you to run bond.
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see below
Post edited by Ula on0 -
So you think ranks reflect skills? So you think someone beginning dbd reaching iridescent knows the depth of dbd? So you think someone can master dbd in a month? I can not take you seriously anymore lol
Legion's base terror radius in frenzy: 40mMidwich's lower floor area: 4096m²Legion's base terror radius in frenzy area: 40*2*3.14 = 251.2m2Legion's terror radius / Midwich lower floor: 251.2/4096 = 6.13%Maybe you were talking about the total area covered by legion in one frenzy? It is 4411,2 m² (no addon, no vaults, no perk). Even though he can pretty reliably detect survivors, guaranteeing to hit survivors is a whole different story.If there's a good main building, use it! For instance, the Saloon is particularly strong to waste legion's power (it takes more than 10s for legion to go from the street to the generator upstairs). You can also use long walls, for instance there's 2 cars forming a long wall in haddonfield you can use to extend the chase by a lot.
Post edited by Ula on4 -
Legion's base terror radius in frenzy area: 40*2*3.14 = 251.2m2
The area that Legions terror radius covers is (40^2) * 3.14 = 5,026m
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Oh wow, you just described every soloq match ever.
This is not something specially excluded for Legion.
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It's more so for legion than any other killer now, I'm amazed by how poorly thought out this has been. It's no surprise that the game is losing players month on month and that's a real shame.
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So... would you rather get 1 shot and face camped by a Bubba who caught you in a dead zone?
Like I get that Legion forces you to mend and it is kinda boring and annoying... but like... there's a lot more worse things in this game to face off against. Besides, unless you feed them a 5 hit Frenzy, Legion is getting downs with M1 gameplay which is very counterable. That is not a fast process and why they have Frenzy to slow the game down to a point where they have enough time for their M1 gameplay.
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Avoiding a bubba deadzone is a lot easier and if he really wants to camp you get gens in exchange. The gameplay facing legion is just terrible, there's no fun to it and it forces poor gameplay mechanics on you.
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Legion is all about slowing down the 1v4 at the expense of having good 1v1 gameplay. That's not terrible design.
For all the complaints about anti-loop killers, you have a killer who you can literally loop since his power has no lethality unless the survivors group up and finish mending while he's frenzying letting him stack up 5 hits in a single frenzy. Not to mention stunning him out of his power resets the chain.
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Well unless it was their fifth hit in a chain they don’t down you with a Feral Frenzy hit, so one thing you can try is don’t drop pallets when you’re healthy. If you’re injured go ahead and drop them, that will force Legion to either try and loop it normally or break it by kicking it or going into Frenzy and vaulting it, but none of those will immediately get them a down. Basically against Legion your best bet is split up, stay injured and try and force Legion to down you with basic attack chases which can take a little while.
Note that the five-hit Frenzy chain down is an option for them, but even when it work it takes them quite a long time to actually do, up to 50 seconds with base kit and up to 100 seconds with Never Sleep Pills. Yes, they can get downs this way, but getting one down per minute isn’t really overpowered, even taking into account the mending involved.
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His power has always been terribly designed. The reason the developers nerfed him the first time was because he made the game miserable for everyone. I'm astounded the developers spent any time on him, besides totally reworking his power.
It really takes a lot of work to make the game more miserable than a face-camping Leatherface, but Legion does it.
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Just assume that legion is gonna put you in injured state because that's his power, and keep pallets for when he isnt in frenzy. Is so easy, just do this with that combo addons or without. Legion is so countereable if you use your brain just a little...
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He didn't get changed for making the game miserable. The way his old power work didn't offer enough counterplay and all the changes to Legion and Deep Wounds were targeting counterplay options.
At no point did the devs change the fact that legion forces survivors to mend with his power.
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The developers made it easier to put survivors into the mending state.
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It's really not only a Legion thing, seriously. (also they haven't changed that much, so were they that oppresive in their previous state?)
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You misread that.
Legion being annoying to face wasn't what kicked off their first rework. Lack of counterplay and borderline abuse of some mechanics is what did it.
Did the Devs make it easier to get deep wounds on people? Yes. Why? Because Legion was a pretty weak killer and that's what their whole shtick is for the most part. Frenzy around spreading injuries and deep wounds, cancel power and commit to an M1 chase while the rest of the team is distracted mending. That is what they do. That's what they've done for years. Were you expecting the devs to do a complete rework of them like they did old Freddy or something?
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Legion being annoying to face wasn't what kicked off their first rework. Lack of counterplay and borderline abuse of some mechanics is what did it.
I'm going from memory and Legions rework was a while ago. But, I remember the big reason BHVR reworked Legion the first time was exactly because he was unfun to play against. In fact, I'm pretty that's where the entire "so-and-so is unfun" threads came from on the forums, because that's the reason the developers gave.
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Nope. At least not from what I've heard/seen.
Firstly, it was because Deep Wound timer paused in chase instead of as you ran. So Legion could moonwalk with Bloodhound and force you to either drop from DW or get stabbed. Secondly, it was also because damaging the Deep Wound timer with Franks Mix Tape actually worked because Frenzy didn't need to be fully charged to activate. Frenzy hits are very difficult to prevent and if Legion can down you by Frenzy stabbing you over and over again... there's really not much you can do to stop it. Lastly, a missed Frenzy hit didn't dump Legion out of their power so Legion could actually go faster by spamming lunge... though they may have needed Unrelenting to do that.
Edit: Actually I looked it up... the multi frenzy stab down was a base kit thing... Frank's Mix Tape just made it better.
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That is mostly a "them" problem.
People are bound to pull the plug in the middle of a game regardless. The reason why is obvious, "People get mad when they lose, or when they are majorly outplayed." It is common gamer behavior to quit a game when things get too repetitive or too frustrating. So saying that a certain character is making everyone leave a game is out of the question and it is extremely rare.
The common reasons will be: When things get too frustrating to the point they get so mad, how other players play the game, getting outplayed, and many other reasons that mostly involves the game itself and the players. Nothing usually about the characters and how they function in a asymmetrical video game.
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I don't think I understand what this post or thread is about...
Is it about Legion being strong?
Is it about a lot of people playing Legion?
Is it about silly design directions?
I don't understand what the soul of this is intended to be or where it is supposed to be headed.
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I think OP is sick of mending. Either that or keeps getting wrecked by the 5th Frenzy hit.
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5th hit is only an issue when there are even 4 survivors in the match.
How the heck is Legion getting 5th hits after their buddy does or while they're on the ground/hook?
Do they keep mending before their power is through??
Ugh. I don't understand.
Mending sucks, but it honest-to-goodness isn't all too bad in most circumstances.
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Can you please read my post before responding. Seriously at no point did I even address the strength of this build and immediately you start trying to explain how easy it is to beat it. The title of this post is "Legion rework is only leading to more and more players quitting." The point, that I made was that as I explained, how his power works, its barely avoidable and once hit, he just leaves. I then explained how with this build no matter what I do he can quickly break the pallet whenever he needs and can get his power back automatically. There is no way for me to use any form of skill to outmanoeuvre or even minimise his ability to hit me with his power. As you yourself stated, am I getting hit, it is unavoidable. So at that point, I am just playing against a 115 killer with no power, except that I am injured for most the match. That is terrible. As I stated the best way to counter legion, and to counter this build specifically is to run to the corner of the map when he is chasing me. RIP interesting chases I guess oh but don't worry because he is super easy to beat apparently. Even if I agreed to that, congratulations you won. However some people believe that is it is more significant as to how a match ended rather then the outcome itself.
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I reread your post that I responded to and here’s what you said
I drop the pallet, he vaults over it, breaking the pallet in the process and hitting me. Or I successfully stun him, once the stun wears off his power is fully restored and then vaults over it hitting me? What even is that? Not even bother going to talk about strength, just how is that even a power at that point? He vaults anything, breaks every pallet, and stunning him is useless.
The answer to your question is the same as what I said - “it’s a power at that point” because it works but it’s not necessarily game breaking. From your new reply you apparently don’t like being in chases against basic attack killers while injured and think “those chases aren’t interesting”? (“So at that point, I am just playing against a 115 killer with no power, except that I am injured for most the match. That is terrible”) I’m not sure why though because those chases are the same as any other chases you’d have against any basic attack killer while injured at that point.
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No, no one quits the game just because of a Legion, if people quit the game it's either because they're either taking breaks or just getting tired of playing the same game for a long time which is understandable.
You dare come crying face Legion because you can not stand a killer to be effective, you want to escape all parties so that survival does not imply that all the survivors by systematically out.
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The guy dares to say that Legion is more threatening with his 5 HIT while to manage to already make 4 basic HIT the survivors must be close and that they therefore do not know how to counter Legion.
This is only possible against noobs.
Otherwise it is impossible to have 4 HIT in a run that is at least 1 and a maximum of 2.
So that's why as a MainLegion this update doesn't change anything for me, apart from the music when I'm in pursuit.
I play Legion in this way :
when I'm close to a survivor I activate the frenzy on him, if no one is near I turn off my power and I still continue surviving without giving him time to remove Deep Wound this crazy pressure on him.
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It could be that it's just boring, the 5th frenzy hit doesn't really matter since everyone's injured anyway. It's just boring having your location revealed all the time and having to mend if you want to do gens. Wouldn't be as much a problem if you could gen with wound.
This isn't "crazy pressure" it's actually just silly and isn't fun.
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Yes. That is exactly what I said. I hate being chased while injured.
Not the fact that his power denies survivors ability to implement game knowledge to avoid, or at least minimise the chance of being hit. Then once hit, his power then applies a passive slowdown which forces survivors to waste time because his power would be extremely weak without it due to its terrible design. Then once injured you have to make a choice to either waste time healing knowing that your are likely going to be injured again, thus wasting a significant amount of time. Or you play the game injured, cutting a chase in half, because you only have one health state, and stealth based builds don't work because of your grunts of pain and blood trail. Then you add the fact that most legion's will run sloppy butcher, to drag out the healing even longer or thanaphobia, so if t you choose to not heal, the legion gets even more passive slowdown. All of this combined with the fact that he does not have a power during the actual chase, making him one of the most uninteresting killers in dbd objectively. All of which drags matches out long past the point that they should have ended, not because the match was close necessarily. But because the killer was just running across the map , going from person to person, hitting them forcing them to heal every minute. All of a sudden a 7 minute match, is now a 15 minute match, and the killer only got 4 hooks. What worse is unlike killers with unique abilities, his is just base M1, which is objectively uninteresting.
You also say that its the same as any base M1 killer while injured.
No, take scream. yes while in a chase his just an M1 killer. However, when I'm not in a chase I have to be careful to avoid being taken out before the chase even starts. This is at least interesting. Something that separates him from others. I'm sure you are going to say, what about plague? or the twins? Technically their power is unavoidable and is just a base M1 killer. Correct, and guess what, they are both unpopular killers to play against. The twins especially, due to victor being oppressive, even once injured.
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I probably would have gone with Clown or Doctor or Oni pre-charged actually as the basic attack killer example. Stealth Killers like Ghost Face try not to get into extended chases if possible in the first place.
As as being “uninteresting”, that’s obviously your personal opinion so it would be “subjectively uninteresting”. I imagine there’s survivors who are perfectly happy looping basic killers.
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For all the overblown whining about Iri and Julies.
2.6 Seconds to break a Pallet.
.9 Seconds for Legion to vault a Pallet.
3.0 Seconds for Legions cooldown from cancelling Frenzy.
Legion can't down you after vaulting and breaking a pallet with Julie's and Iri unless he hits you after, then cancels his power or you were already injured and he cancels his power right after.
Either way, he's inactive 1.3 seconds LONGER than if he'd just kicked the Pallet. He just gets to take the cooldown to go if he doesn't cancel immediately after.
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After putting a few hours into playing legion, the problem is even worse. A half decent killer can get 3 kills WITHOUT any perks.
With perks it just becomes an absolute joke, throw a thana in there at minimum and you've got an easy win. Got bored of it so fast.
Is this rework some late april fool's joke we're missing?
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I actually find the rework to make legion harder to play cause survivors know to run from legion when he's coming and waste his metre so they can't get that free down. from your end it sounds like a skill issue tbh.
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Without any addons his base power just gets a small speed increase and he can down on a fifth hit.
Which means once someone is on the hook he’s got to have someone mend immediately and then be able to double back and hit them for the fourth hit.
On large maps this isn’t happening unless your survivors are complete idiots.
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Are you kidding? It made me want to play Legion more. I'm kind of bored playing always the same few killers.
The buff wasn't that big but at least now he can do something (and is even good with rare addons)
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I'd say it shows some people assume that because they cannot be bothered to think and learn some tactics, everybody else must do the same.
This game is supposed to have killer variety and for each killer there should be a different counter. Then again some try to play the same against Trapper they would against Spirit, Legion or Nurse. And when it clearly doesn't work they cry unfun and nerf.
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To be 100% fair, players were and should have been doing this since day 1.
It's like saying that whenever something improves, people are made more aware of it.
Just because killers anticipate Dead Hard does not make it any weaker, knowing of something and how it's implemented in the game does not, by merit, make it weaker than it was before it was buffed.
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If you want to constantly make 5 hit, for sure you can not.
The advice I can give you is to play Legion as you did before.
Me on my way to play Legion has not changed.
When I'm close to a survivor, I inflicts DW and I finished hunting classic M1 if there is nobody close to, if not the best I inflict DW two survivors and I finished the classic M1 down.
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