Lobby screen should tell you if you are up against a SWF
I would much rather dodge the lobby and give them a killer to match their sweat or at least pick a sweaty build to try and compete. Rather than enter the lobby see that its a 4 man team that just wants to annoy me, and afk in a corner.
I just played my second game as the executioner ever, and got a 4 man SWF all running BT/DH/DS. I stood no chance with my non meta perks my bloodweb gave me. All it did was make me not want to play another game.
Comments
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I dont know if it necessarily needs to be shown in the pregame lobby but it would be really nice to display in the post-match results screen. Dota 2 started doing this with pre-made groups a long time ago in a simple & elegant way:
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No thanks. It would reward immature players leaving lobby the second they see a SWF.
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No. Que times would inflate and swf would never get a game.
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How so?
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What makes you think the que times would go up? Is playing against SWFs really that bad?
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It's not, but immature players act like it's unfair and way too difficult to beat them, so there's no way they'd want to play against them.
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I have said this before, and I'm curious.
If killers are allowed to see SWF, so that they can determine a match is sweaty and no play. Would you be ok with survivors seeing which killer and addons they are versing so they can determine if a match is sweaty and not play? Or would survivors dodging every time you run iridescent addons be unfair somehow?
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Both of them are awful ideas.
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I'm fine with the idea of post game lobbies but pre game lobbies is just a bad idea and just going to turn the game into a big dodge fest.
how is dodging immature?
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How very mature of you to assume you know what other people go through better than themselves! You are trully an example for all of us with your completely unbiased and non-selfserving take on this subject. The world would be such a better place if we all adopted your stance of "everyone's complaints are just made up and only what benefits me personally is valid".
Please everyone, lets applaud this wonderful, unfathomably wise person.
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lmao people act like versing swf is the end of the world
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I don't think the addons comparison is fair - killers still wouldn't be able to see survivor's addons, right? So they can see a toolbox in a lobby, and not know if it's a brown toolbox with no addons, or a yellow toolbox with gloves for a sabo team, or a green toolbox with brand new parts.
Being able to see which killer you're going up against before the match starts is a more fair comparison, but that would honestly result in way, wayyy more dodges than killers seeing a SWF team. Spirit players would never get a game because nearly every survivor main hates spirit. The complaints about "too many nurses and blights" would amplify tenfold. The only lobbies that won't get dodged are maybe, like, trapper.
Just a brief browse through this forum will show you how survivor mains think every killer is either way too powerful and needs heavily nerfed, or the killer is just too boring to play against and needs to be removed from the game because they're making the game too boring for survivors.
Now imagine that people like this could dodge any killer they want.
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This idea comes up every once in a while, and I'm not convinced it'd help people out as much as they think it would?
SWF have the capacity to be a really tough, sweaty match, but they also have the capacity to be a bunch of people barely trying because they're hanging out in voice, or a bunch of overly-cocky, extremely altruistic flashlight types gifting you a free win. On the flipside, too, a competent and skilled group of solos should be feared almost as much as a decent SWF, because the survivor role doesn't require you to be on voice to be a noteworthy looper or to know the right times to go for a save, and so on.
All seeing SWF in the lobby would achieve is a bunch of people dodging lobbies that they might not have had any reason to, and that's not a good thing.
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When I play with my 3 man sfw we don't always use mics to communicate usually first few matches we just play. We still win lot of times those matches but there is more some mistakes like bringing killer to gen which someone repairs and someone getting on second hook state in first hook but well that still happens sometimes when we communicate...
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Which is exactly my point. Nobody wants to go against sweat, even if they are sweating themselves.
It would take for anyone to find a match, as everyone will keep dodging, looking for weak targets. I don't want this, but a killer should not be able to dodge a match because they are versing a man swf. Yet as a survivor get no warning they are about to verse the sweatiest nurse of 2022
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I agree that it wouldn't be a healthy addition to the game (although showing swfs in postgame lobbies would be neat), I'm just saying, comparing seeing a killer in advance + addons to knowing if a group of survivors is swf or solo isn't a fair comparison.
Besides, as it is, the especially toxic swfs and/or survivors that are blatantly hacking have a tendency to linger in lobbies with one character without an item, then wait until the timer hits 6 seconds, then immediately switch to pink haired Nea holding a flashlight. I've seen 3 survivors do this simultaneously. They're clearly doing this to avoid lobby dodging, but killers can't swap out to different killers once they're in a lobby, so they wouldn't even have this (admittedly very stupid) option.
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That has nothing to do with if dodging these lobby would be immature or not its just simply a stupid idea.
Most of the killer would dodge an swf lobby because the chance is just higher to face a good working squad so why take the risk when I can face solos? The same would happen if survs could see wich killer they face because why face a nurse when I can wait for a nice trapper to face that's why that isn't a thing.
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I don't have an opinion either way, but some people would dodge and that would be problem if killers stated to dodge a lot of swf.
So I can understand why it isn't a thing
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Yeah I never understood why they forced killers into being locked into whatever killer they picked. I think it had something to do with when the hosting server was changed to be based off behaviour's servers instead of the killer, and they never reverted it? I'm not sure but yes, its unneeded.
But the last second change is done to minimise killer's dodging. Its a way to actually allow survivors to play sweaty, without waiting for an hour for a killer to agree. Its a perfect example as to why the post idea would not work.
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Yes it should be shown, but that would be a good idea. This game does not like good ideas.
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They really should show who is in a Swf before the match starts so that killers can prepare in game and mentally. But there should be an incentive otherwise Swfs would never get games and killers dodging often. I’d say there should be increased blood point gain from double to quadruple bloodpoints. That alone would make going up against 4 man Swfs more worth it for 4x bloodpoints especially if paired with bbq and blood point offerings.
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It doesn't matter how bad going against SWF actually is, it's the perception.
People think SWF are harder to kill than solo, so if given the choice, they will dodge every SWF they come across.
So no, terrible idea.
Now displaying SWF on the results screen however, would go a long way in dispelling the "SWF are OP" stereotype.
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It's quite necessary actually. Matchmaking is based on your killer's individual MMR.
If you're a god with Spirit, but a potato with Nurse, you'll be matched accordingly.
So if you could swap killers, you would just queue up as Nurse, be matched with potato survivors, then swap to Spirit so you could destroy them.
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Playing as a SWF isnt automatically more effective.
It provides the opportunity for better coordination, but it doesn't guarantee that it's utilised.
Some people play worse when they're distracted by voice chat, but simply enjoy playing with their friends.
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That's only kind of true. In Actuality if you have high MMR spirit, your Nurse will be set around the same. Not exactly as high, but about. What's more this change was implemented before SBMM was even under development. But maybe that is why they implemented the lock in change? If so that's enough thing SBMM ruined.
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And this isn't true either.
When they first introduced individual MMRs, they set your lower minimum MMR to a certain amount below your highest, so this would have been true then.
There isn't a running check that raises your lowest MMR as you increase your highest.
So lets say you started with a 1500 Spirit, your Nurse would be a minimum of 1300. But if you increased your Spirit to 1800, your Nurse would still be 1300.
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Everyone in here awknowledging that people would dodge, proving my point that SWFs are not fun to play against. Whether they are sweaty or just trying to annoy the killer, they create a very bad experience for the killer.
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My point is that there is a mindset that SWF is believed to be an inherently harder experience even if it isn't true. If survivors could tell, which killer and addons they were running, survivors would start dodging to avoid, spirits, nurse Blight ect. Or even weaker killers but with sweaty addons.
Proving that nobody wants to go up against sweaty survivors or killers but most people see no issues with themselves playing as sweaty as they want.
That's even worse. If your an experienced killer, you can take a lot of game knowledge that you have and apply it on many different killers, even if you are less effective. Lets say you lose for a wile, but as time goes on you should slowly start improving, hopefully at the same rate that you start winning matches. But if what you said is true, then you an experienced killer, anytime a new killer comes out gets to go up against a bunch of new survivors and destroy them. Even worse is these survivors will have little time investment and be far more likely to quit.
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Okay, show the killer which survivors are in a SWF.
BUT
- Make it a feature that you have to opt into
- Disable leaving the lobby and give the player a matchmaking penalty if their connection "is lost"
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Except where I said its all perception and mostly misconception.
Killers have a habit of leaving a bad game and saying "must have been a SWF" based on zero evidence, and never once consider if their 4Ks were SWFs
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It is pretty easy to tell when I play my main Ghost Face, and people run off gens 10 minutes before I get there without spine chill, that it was a SWF.
People like to use the word perception like they developed an irrational belief on a subject. Perceptions are rooted in reality.
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If they made it so leaving lobby screens gave you a small que penalty like a few minutes to reque, would you be okay with them showing SWFs? Or is it something else that you think would be unfair to show SWFs. Because I think giving killers the time to mentally prepare for a hard game, far out weighs the chance of dodgers.
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I don't see that working. If you penalize players for lobby dodging when they know they are facing a SWF. Then they will start to go into the match and proceed to AFK. Waiting for survivors to finish all gens in 4-12 minutes instead of waiting a 15 minute penalty. That is assuming that the penalty would start small, and progress into longer penalties the more lobby's you dodge.
Adding the ability to see SWF in the pregame lobby is going to create the incentive to lobby dodge. Penalizing lobby dodging will incentives players going AFK since the match will be shorter than the penalty at some point. Even though statistically SWF doesn't make a huge impact on how a game plays out, players will still feel demoralized seeing it by the stigma that SWF is why Killers have bad matches.
It would be better to just add the ability to see SWF in the end game screen so players can adapt, and realize the impact after the game for future matches.
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You don't know it's going to be a hard game just because it's a SWF, and you don't know it's going to be easy just because it's not.
I've lost many, many games as part of a SWF and I've absolutely demolished the killer as a solo survivor, a non-insignificant amount of times I might add, probably about 30-40% of the time the expectation is subverted.
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This is a patently and undeniably misguided idea.
Not only will killers simply dodge, but people will actively be encouraged to play without friends!
Who wants to encourage players to isolate themselves??
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You just described the reason why the devs are hiding all the information before the match in the very first sentence, they don't want people to dodge a match, that only increases queue times to the point were the game may become unplayable, When the game launched we could see survivor ranks during the lobby screen and people killers and survivors were dodging a lot to the point were it could take you up to 20 minutes for someone to finally accept a match.
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It would be a dodge fest.
Getting the information post game would be fine.
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No, game is meant to satisfy SWFs ego and not to be fun, anything interfere with it will not be implemented.
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