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Slowdown Perks Carries Killers
I had a match today that didn't sit well with me. No, it wasn't due to being camped to death and neither was it a Blight slaughtering everyone at 5 gens remaining. Not this time.
I was on an awesome team and the killer mostly played fair. He didn't tunnel or camp anyone. Everyone stayed alive as long as they could in chase and they were glued to gens when they could and was never idle. He even abandoned chase with me because of Tinkerer. There was two different occasions where I had a gen at about 90% and it would have finished but he had the hook perk that removes objective progress and I watched this gen go from about 95% to about 75, and then he walked over to the same gen and removed even more progress and it becomes 50%! Two perks stacked together with POP! This is not fun to witness. So not only did we have to deal with Ruin at the beginning, but it was also POP and Scourge Hook. This is bad and I hope that the meta reworks is truly going to put an end to it because I am very tired of a decent team losing an entire match against a mediocre killer being carried by perks. The Demogorgon places portals next to the gens so he has all-seeing map wide information of what all is going on making him have a very unfair advantage.
Demogorgon should not be able to put portals close to gens, which is the survivor objective.
You can see from our tally screen we all had a lot of points. It was not a bad match, there was a lot of chases and it was mostly a good game. However, the survivors still lost horribly because 2 gens were left unrepaired on the map. The hope dwindled away fast when people started dying which reiterates the point that there shouldn't ever be a point when the match is unwinnable.
The killer won because he had all slowdown perks. We could not finish the gens because he was stacking them and he had tinkerer which basically leads a horse to his water. This is a reminder that BHVR better use this opportunity to make this game fair by preventing slowdown perks from being stackable. It is too much advantage.
It is NOT fun losing because you were outclassed by perks. When in this case, the survivor does not have a means to overcome it.
Comments
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Sealing portals is more than worth it in your situation, so like, do that.
Anyhow, slowdown perks kinda can carry killers to higher MMR than that where they belong, and make people think they’re more skilled than they actually are. Which leads to them getting crushed by very experienced survivors, which leads to frustration, which leads to hard camping, tunneling, and slugging. If you want to enjoy the game more, take off those slowdown perks!
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God this hurts me mentally to read.
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Second chance perks carry survivors, too. Can we admit both sides suck now?
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"NOT fun losing because you were outclassed by perks"
Runs deadhard.
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Bit disappointed there's no screenshot of you on the floor this time. That said, I'm really liking the 1/5 on the "did you have fun?" meter and the general demogorgon portals OP part.
7/10
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Nope not really. I think these slowdown perks giving killers a fair chance to win is a better argument here. That's more accurate.
Gens can be repaired very fast, if the survivor team is good and coordinated. As simple as that. Slowdown perks give the killer more time to have a chance to complete their objective and win. It surely doesn't carry the killer, with maybe Blight and Nurse being the exception.
Gens going very fast is one of the reasons why some killers camp and tunnel, it's the easiest way to deal with the problem, it doesn't take nearly as much effort.
I am hopeful that we will see some real changes to the meta with the perk update. But I definitely hope very much that we'll see some form of slowdown added to the basekit. Killers need this because of how fast gens go. So I wouldn't expect that killers will have less slowdown when the patch drops, at least I hope so. Killers need time to have a chance to win as well. I hope it gets more consistent, so killers will always have a fair amount of time without games potentially going by at snails pace.
I also hope that we get baseline nerfs and counters to camping and tunneling, because those are the killer strategies that need to be discouraged far more, not the fair and skillful strategies. Incentivising the killers to play fairer and more skillful, and decentivising the killer to play with these unfun strategies is the way to go with DBD.
Edit: Not to mention you weren't outclassed by perks anyways, you are even running Dead Hard.
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Killers run slowdown to have more time against second chance perks. Survivors run second chance perks to have more time against slowdown.
It's less about being carried and more that both sides are picking the optimal strategy.
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You had a match TODAY that didn't sit well with you?
Then judging by your usual posting you must experience a "groundhog day" effect since all your posts seems to be inspired by games that "didn't sit well with you".
The only difference this time is that you can't call the killer a "dirty camper/tunneler" but call them mediocre instead of accepting that their strategy paid off.
This game is either bring your best stuff if you want to win or stop caring about winning and bring what you want.
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Part of the reason why it's so hard at times to tell if you're trolling or being serious is you run Dead Hard and then complain about gen slowdowns.
Ruin doesn't really synergize with Pop as you can't pop an already regressing gen and Tinkerer is a good information perk but it doesn't slow anything down.
Scourge Hook with Pop can be a lot but, if you or your teammates are bringing decent toolboxes, that just seems like a counter to Scourge. To get that much use out of both you first need to hook a survivor, and if there are multiple hooks, the killer is probably winning anyway.
Looks more like it's just a game that didn't turn out how you expected to me.
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If the killer is hooking survivors very quickly, survivors do not have a way to come back from that. There is no second chance perks for survivor that help them win when they are losing. The only second chance perks helps only if the killer plays a certain way, in which case tunneling.
The base slowdown would have to be extremely weak, otherwise the killer is playing with more than 4 perks.
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Scourge prevented the gen twice from finishing and with Ruin it regresses a lot.
Dead hard don't win games. A very small dash can't be comparable to perks that constantly remove or prevent objective progress.
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Killers carry survivors, iirc.
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Exhaustion perks carry survivors
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The synergy of the slowdown perks is completely OP. Getting one hook and activating 2 strong perks is ridiculous. They should change the definition of pop to only activate on non-scourge hooks. Also, the add-on for demo to see auras while traversing should be Iri.
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The addon for seeing survivor auras as demo is an iri.
Also I don't see why pop needs that change. The killer has to be able to reach and kick the gen within a 45 seconds window or they get no value from pop. And the gen can't already be regressing either.
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Quick Summary.
Killer meta perks waah!
Survivor meta perks yay!
I lost not fair waah!
Saves you having to read the whole thing 🤢.
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my mistake about the add-on.
the change to pop would balance the use of pop/PR. You get one hook and activate 2 powerful slowdowns? That’s really OP. Scourge hooks should only activate scourge perks.
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There's nothing really wrong with the syngery. If survivors aren't working on the gen that PR hit, then the killer can't pop it. If they are, then the killer can pop it.
Sometimes it's best to leave a gen regressing so the killer can't pop the gen. As the 45 second period often means killers aren't going to wait for a survivor to touch the gen to pop it and just use it on another worthwhile gen.
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It's okay. Someone else will. And then when someone calls them a troll that post will get moderated.
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Sluzzy granted me my wish for a screenshot, but I prefer the ones where they are slugged.
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I don’t have a problem with either of those perks on their own, but together they are OP. Changing it so you can only activate one perk per hook would balance this out. Scenario I often encounter:
survivor is downed, I stop working gen, PR hits my gen, wait for 15 seconds to see if killer comes. While I am waiting killer pops a different gen and mine has regressed an extra 15-20 seconds OR I do tap the gen at 20 seconds and killer comes around to finally pop the gen. That’s totally OP.
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It's not in any way op. Your individual struggles against both perks is not a sign that both perks together are overpowered.
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Classic Sluzzy
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Leave demopuppers out of your bait they're too innocent >:(
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Everyone who plays survivor has this problem. I’m done talking about this, it is OP and devs should address this. You know it is as well, but it favors you so of course ‘everything is fine’.
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It's not OP. Both perks require the killer to down survivors and hook them. PR has an extra condition of hooking on specific hooks which isn't always possible.
If the killer is constantly getting value from both perks throughout the game, they are outplaying you.
Not to mention it's still half the build dedicated to defending gens.
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I mean if two teammates are bringing 2 toolboxes it's not that weird for a killer to bring perks to counter them. I don't think it's being outclassed by perks as much as being forced to play on a more equal playing field. As a survirvor I'd love to go against the perks that Demo player used instead of the by now standard 3 killer perks (I'm facing): Corrupt, Pain Res and DMS.
Tinkerer is a great info perk and can work beautifully to a killer's advantage whilst in a chase, but otherwise doesn't slow anything down by itself. POP and Scourge Hook are conditional perks though, so the killer has to be strategical if they want to put them to good use. And ruin,,.. well you can literally ruin it by finding the hex totem.
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Exactly lol
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full slowdown/gen control builds suck to deal with, but it is only effective if the team is giving the killer the chances to take the value. If the team is doing good at chases (thus denying the killer at least 2 of his slow downs), the Killer is immediately in disvantage since his perks won't help them with anything other than gen control.
I understand that the portals give the killer an easy way to cover the gens, even more with Tinkerer, but then the team has the counterplay of sealing the portals (which in cases like this is pretty much the best if not only option). With 4 survivors alive and 2 gens remaining, considering the team was doing well in chases, the best strat would be to spread on gens. The killer can have information with the portals and Tinkerer, sure, but they can only pressure one gen at a time, and even to apply those slow downs (Pop and Pain Res), they would need to down and hook someone first. Give them a hard time. As soon as you know the gen is close to 70%, stay even sharper, leave earlier if needed, hide as a rat if needed so you can just see them kick it and leave just for you to undo the regress a second later. The match may be long, somewhat boring, but not unwinnable. If the killer is too focused on defending the gens, spreading and resetting and denying downs is pretty much a guaranteed win. And with the self-cares and inner healing, resets were always available. With that key, one of the players could be in advantage of knowing the killer location thus know if they should commit or leave a gen way earlier.
Anyway, stacking too many gen slow down perks is a bit of an overkill, but not ineffective nor a sign of being bad at the game. It stands to the killer the same way healing perks/items stand to survivors, which is to deny the other side's progress. Like, the killer hits someone, they escape and soon enough they're back at full health with their self-care + botany + desperate + medkit, thus making the killer "lose" the value of taking that health state at first place.
There are many aspects to a match that can be altered by perks, some people just choose to use builds that focus on a single one and try covering the rest by pure gameplay, that's how it I see it.
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That Demo cannot use Pop and Pain resonance unless he gets a hook so he was hardly being carried by it. He had to earn it.
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When you start to think that this forum is killer - sided,always remember,sluzzy (troll) posts get upvoted here.
Also,we could say that survivors get carried by second chances perks,except that with slowdown,90% of them you need to hunt,chase,down,hook etc... to get it to work,while second chance perks are just free and that's it.
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Well, yes. Gens are indefensible for most of the cast without them.
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He BARELY had any upvotes. 4 people and who knows how many of those are ironic upvotes. Chances are great that all four are ironic upvotes to be completely honest. But even if they weren't, and 4 people genuinely agreed... That would almost prove the assertion that this forum is killer sided.
And good. This place SHOULD be killer sided. It is a sign that the community skews a bit more on the logical side. Huge positive.
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I don't post for upvotes. I know this forum is extremely killer sided as well as the game. Doesn't mean it should be.
Survivors are desensitized with losing whereas killers are actually the opposite. Imagine a killer losing 10 matches in a row and accepting that as balanced?
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You dc half your matches. You not being banned on here for trolling doesnt sit right with me
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I won't stand for Demogorgon slander, his mobility is by far the weakest part of his kit and it only really comes into play during 3 gen scenarios - which I'm sure majority of us will agree is on the survivors if it happens. Not to mention, unlike the various other high mobility killers you can get rid of his portals. You can't stop Nurse from blinking though can you?
The killer won because he played better than you and your team. You said it yourself, he didn't take shortcuts by tunnelling and camping which he could have easily done since nobody had DS.
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Woof.
Okay, let's dig in here.
- Something about this story is...well, off. Pain Resonance makes gens start regressing. You can't put a Pop into a gen that is already regressing.
- If he's using PR, you'll see it immediately on hooking. In the future, immediately release the gen about a second after he picks up and wait. If he comes closer, he won't be able to pop the gen, if he doesn't you can get back on it. If you get hit by PR while working on a gen, *do not tap it* if Pop is in play. Just run away, circle back if you evade him.
- Now, if he's dedicated 2 slots to both Pop and PR, it's easily beaten by exactly this.
- Killers run at least one, but often two perks dedicated to slowdown for a reason - if they don't, there is often no way to win. A single bad chase means that 3 gens have popped, and now it's impossible to ever recover. If you want to see what this looks like in practice, go and watch some of Otzdarva's recent 'all perk streak' attempts. It's...insane.
- If he's running Pop, PR, Tink AND Ruin, there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to demolish him. Ruin is barely a threat these days, just find it and break it. Plus, it has a direct anti-synergy with Pop. This is now a killer with barely any sort of info perk, zero lethality perks, a weak early game and a weak late game.
- Yes, the meta reworks are going to likely nerf these three perks - but it sounds like it's more that some of their efficacy is being applied to the game baseline, via reduced gen speeds. Which I fully suspect will generate enough salt from you to cure my current batch of biltong.
- Believe it or not, killers also need to have a reasonable chance of winning - and part of that involves countering the ridiculous speed at which gens can move in games. I've seen a gen done in sub 20 seconds at the start of the game, thanks to PTS and toolboxes.
- You're...really QQing about Demogorgon of all things? No. Just...no.
- You didn't lose because you were outclassed by perks. You lost because you gave up and didn't play around these perks. PR can be countered easily with sabos, bodyblocking, letting go of gens before it hits or noting and avoiding those hooks. Pop can be countered by not automatically tapping gens once they get PR'd. Ruin...just find it and break it.
Seriously, Sluzzy. Just...stop. I know that you have a deep and abiding hatred for the killer role and seem to think that every loss you take comes from killers being OP - in this case, complaining about frigging Demo with an odd perk loadout.
I think this may be the first time I've ever said this on these forums, but this is a 'git better' issue, not a balance issue.
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Yes, they do.
Don't get hooked so quickly?
Loop better, run better, hide better - be better.
Sometimes you will lose games. The sooner you learn to accept that, the sooner we'll get less petty us versus them threads like this.
Wait...how exactly did he put a pop into a gen that was being regressed by Ruin exactly?
Also...
That last part actually hurt my brain.
Sluzzy, there is bias and then there's deliberately ignoring how Dead Hard works.
Be glad you aren't going up against my Demo build :)
- PR
- Pentimento
- Plaything
- Discordance
It's so, so dirty with how well Demo can work around Penti.
No, no they aren't.
They are indeed strong perks, but they don't have a perfect synergy between them. PR is much better with DMS or Agitation. Pop is much better with Call of Brine.
Just...play around PR, release the gen a second before the killer hooks and don't tap the gen after PR hits. Boom, it can't be popped.
If you're waiting 15 seconds for a killer to come, you're doing it wrong mate. Give it 5, maybe 6 seconds then get back on it.
Even then, 15 seconds of regression is almost nothing.
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That build is every Pinhead I've faced, and I face them too much for my liking lol.
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But only 2 dead hards so I would say killer outclassed survivor perks or at least tied bringing all the strongest perks from killer side. It all debends how well they are used and on luck as well. Killer can bait dh and then it does not extend chase or then dh can be 3rd health state if used right. Scourge hook and pop can make the gen go from 90 to 0. Or killer does not make it to scourge hook and gen gets done. Also ruin can be found at beginning or never.
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Pinhead?
Huh.
I...haven't seen a single Cenobite player in weeks.
Unless - wait, your name does sound familiar. You might well have played against me this afternoon - I tried this exact build. Barely got it started though, if I recall, a Mikaela DC'd pretty early.
It's an...okay build on him (a lot of people sleep on Penti, but it's great). To really use Penti well, you need controlled, sustained traversal, both to set up the pentis and to defend them - which only Onryo, Wraith, Blight, Nurse and Demo can really boast - and it's a waste on Onryo, Nurse and Wraith.
On Cenobite though, I prefer to run:
- Agitation
- Pain Resonance
- Starstruck
- Discordance
He's amazing with Starstruck, as if you get a single hunt off you're going to be wiping the team.
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Second chances carry survivors to an already survivor dominate game. What’s your point? Everyone is entitled to their opinion but at this point your rantings are all the same. Same broken record. Nothing but the same cringy, idiocy and ignorance. BTW. What match doesn’t sit well with you?
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That's true. Though Dead Hard can't be baited if it is used for distance, which is it's biggest strength. But yeah, it can always vary how much certain perks impact a match. But slowdown perks on average aren't more impactful than some of the perks survivors have, when considering that there are four survivors and only 1 killer.
Also, I just noticed that two survivors brought in good toolboxes, both equipped with two charge addons.
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*Reads title*
"You know what maybe there's a good argument to this. Interested to see this person's viewpoint"
*Finds out it's Sluzzy*
"Nevermind."
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- I have to award you for giving me a genuine belly-laugh with this line: "Which I fully suspect will generate enough salt from you to cure my current batch of biltong."
Thanks, I needed that! I didn't expect to get actual pleasure from a Sluzzy thread aside from ironically!
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But describing it as a small dash is disingenuous. Because it is on demand it can be used to waste at least as much time on chases as gen slowdown perks waste survivor's time on gens.
When used for distance and to chain strong tiles together it can create an extra 20 to 35 seconds wasted on chases whereas a Pop only wastes 20 seconds ( not including travel time to kick the generator). Pain Resonance is more popular, in my opinion, as it only takes off 12 seconds but, with the fact it doesn't involve travel time to the generator and more time resuming chase, PR quite often gives more time value for the Killer than Pop.
You know that success in the game depends on making the other side's time less efficient in doing their objectives than your time in doing the objectives. Dead Hard is amazing at wasting time. If Killers want a 12 hook they have approximately 25 seconds for each down assuming survivors keep just one person on gens. It can't be done, presuming equal skill and no major mistakes, if each survivor has Dead Hard. DH carries survivors harder than gen regression perks carry Killers.
On another note, solo and its lack of information completely skews the kill rates upwards for killers because, in solo, if someone gets hooked and another gets chased the other two survivors quite often get off gens leaving nobody on gens. Anytime no survivors are on gens the probability of winning skews killer.
The solution to this at this moment is to get more information to solo survivors. If solos still all get off gens instead of keeping at least one hand on gen duty after getting the info then the solos deserve to lose. After solos get their promised information buffs Killers might need more buffs as I expect kill rates on the average to drop.
Conversely, after Dead Hard gets the nerf it so richly deserves, I expect survivor buffs and/or killer nerfs to be incoming since I expect kill rates to rise. At least though those buffs or nerfs have a greater chance of being healthier for the game if BHVR doesn't have to work around a mechanic as broken as Dead Hard.
But, for right now, gen regression perks are being looked at by BHVR but, along with nerfs to tunneling and camping, might even need buffs. Or they could need nerfs. However, until the health update has had time to display data nobody knows for certain what will be needed.
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You could not tap the gen after Scourge until the Killer is doing something else. There are four survivors, Pop only lasts 45 seconds or it goes, and normal gen regression is only one quarter the speed of repairing gens. If the Killer waits to pop that specific gen, the Killer has lost and deserves to lose. If the Killer takes 12 seconds to start another chase then the Scourge Hook has only regressed the gen by 15 seconds ((80 seconds *0.15)+(12 seconds/4)).
If the survivor has even one exhaustion perk that's not Head On they can waste more time running in a straight line than the Killer can regress from the one hook.
If the survivor wants to jump over the pallet twice and into the Killer or jumps in and out of a locker to show their awesome skillz and gets dropped by the Killer in less than 15 seconds that's your teammates fault and not the Killers.
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Any thread with biltong is better than any thread without biltong.
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The 1-star review 💀
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"Slowdown perks carries killers"
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