Face Camping possible solution?
Okay so I'm fairly new to the game, roughly 100 hours on steam and a couple years back I played on console. I know when someone brings up 'face camping' everyone is like "oh you don't even know what that term even means". Well playing on steam on a new account I end up running into bedrock, absolute new players who don't know how to play and consistently only have 1 perk equipped at tier 1 because they don't have any levels in the killer. Nearly 1 in 3 matches starts off with the killer staring the first hook in the face as close as possible and it's not even like finishing all the gens and then going for the save really helps because nobody has any of the anti-camping perks (BT, DS, etc.) These perks are necessary and without it, going for the save just means that person gets downed instantly and rehooked instantly. Also some of the randoms get pulled off the save because they aren't aware of cancelling the animation and taking a normal hit is necessary. Perks shut down the face camping strategy and weeds it out of the playstyle of killers who are still learning or are frustrated with long chases and just want to play boring and not even get awarded enough bloodpoints for it to be worthwhile. Yet nobody has the proper perks to deal with this pointless 'strategy' so the baby killer who is face camping gets rewarded with 2 kills minimum and more when the survivors try to get saves without the proper perks.
I believe that if the hook timer is paused when the killer is just standing there could go a long way but it would need STRICT rules on how it works otherwise the higher MMR players could abuse the paused timer by keeping the killer within range and forcing them to "camp". Because proxy camping sucks, but it's actually the only option for the killer if all 4 survivors are hanging out having a party around the hook.
I'm sure the devs will figure it out better if they do implement this or even have it require some PTB to fine work it, but..
If the killer is within 8 meters of the hook for more than 10 seconds and not in chase, the hook timer is paused. If the killer remains within 16 meters (kindred distance) for 30 seconds, the timer is paused unless in chase. If the killer is in chase before the 30 seconds, the timer is 1.5 times speed meaning you only have 45 seconds instead of 60 seconds while on hook. However if the killer is in chase after the 30 seconds, the timer is 0.75 times speed. these 10 seconds for 8 meters and 30 seconds for 16 meters shouldn't restart if the killer quickly enters chase and ends chase.
This would make face camping literally impossible as the survivors could just do all 5 gens without a worry about their friend dying on first hook. Additionally the survivor if on second hook would be hit with never ending skill checks and could still lose time during the pause if they miss so proxy camping could still work in a situation that it's needed. With the 1.5 speed on the hook if the survivors have the killer in chase within the kindred radius only if the chase begins in the first 29 seconds of the hook, it would be a deterrent for survivors to try to loop the killer around the hook for a quick save knowing the timer is paused. However if the killer continues to camp after the 30 seconds then the timer is slowed when in chase to give survivors the opportunity to get a rescue from a camper. I personally think this would make camping possible in the right situations, giving the killer a benefit to camp in the beginning of the hook if in chase since at high MMR you get 1 hook near the last gen or something and it's just too good of a play to not stay where you are, however if the survivors just run away and relax, the timer is paused and nothing is keeping the killer in the area other than the possibility of getting a trade rescue for a down.
Let's say that killers start to camp further than 8 meters away for the first 29 seconds knowing they can camp a hook state for half of the duration, knowing that if the survivors try to stop him that it would be 1.5 speed of a hook, and then leaving the moment it pauses. That's only if he is in chase within kindred distance, you can sneak around to get the high risk save like you normally do with the BT DS and the rest of the alphabet of perks.
Currently it's a pain to get into the game for a number of reasons, and partly why the community doesn't know what face camping truly means is because they just don't experience it enough because a much smaller amount of people do it at higher MMR without it being beneficial in the specific scenario they are in. But I being not necessarily absolutely new to the game but playing on a very new account with low MMR, I face players that just don't know any better and get kills because the people they play against also don't know any better on how to deal with it, which is even less likely for them to have the ability to properly deal with it through perks that they don't have. I'm not saying my solution is perfect or even the only solution but it will fix the low MMR face camping absolutely and not make high MMR too survivor sided as camping is necessary in specific ways.
Comments
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Wall of text! short answer is: there will never be a solution because devs don't see camping as a problem, they see it as a legitimate strategy that's completely fair so it will probably never be changed (people have posted ''possible solutions'' including ''pause the hook timer if the killer is nearby'' multiple times since the game launched and it's still here and will probably stay forever)
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on1 -
I did say it's a legitimate strategy, and that to fix the unlegitimate usages of it, a strict ruling to it could be in place. I know it's not new information but I still feel like the way I suggested it would work and allow for camping when it's necessary and completely prevent it when it's undercutting gameplay.
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Again, devs already said it's not an actual problem so it wont be changed, these type of posts have existed since the game launched, at this point people just need to stop posting the same stuff...
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The answer to camping isn't to punish killers for doing it, but rather giving incentive not to do it. The devs just need to actually put some effort into that.
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The devs have gone back and forth on FACE camping so many times you can't really use what they say about it as an argument for it to not get changed. In the infamous video about shots on goals camping was brought up and they said that they do want to do something about FACE camping but not PROIXY camping. I'm not sure if they've gone back on that since then or not because like I said they've changed their minds on it so many times it is not funny.
PROXY camping is a viable strategy, forcing a second stage or even a sacrifice while defending one or two gens at the same time. FACE camping is never viable for anything more than a 2k if the Survivors know what is going on and is just over all a ######### thing to do. The Killer is preventing all four Survivors from really playing the game by not interacting with them and making one player's experience even worse.
I'm not sure what the devs current stance on face camping is, but they have at times said they want to change it and other times said it was viable with the latest that I know of being that they want to remove face camping but not proxy camping.
Now as for an actual change, we don't need to be too crazy about it. It was before my time but they HAD implemented a "Pause timer if Killer is near hook" system but it didn't care about other Survivors being around so of course it was abused to get saves and was thus removed. But if it was brought back as a sort of reverse Camaraderie where if the Killer is within lets say 16 meters (inclusive) of a hooked Survivor while there are no healthy or injured Survivors within 32 meters (inclusive) of that hook the timer is paused. This would prevent "looping around the hook" like what had been done in the past while also stopping face camping straight up and not hurting proxy camping because you can still keep your eyes on the hook and a gen from 16 meters away. The only problem here is if you hook right dead in the middle of your three-gen but you'd want to be chasing people away form that anyways and might actually want the save to happen so you don't lose that hook just yet depending.
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I've had Killers who, when asked why they face camped at five gens tell me "Because I face camp people" or along those lines. I've run into people that have "Face Camp" in their names in some manner and wow, they only ever face camped the whole game.
These people didn't care about points.
They didn't care about gens or the exit gates.
They don't care about a 4k or even a 2k. They just want to face camp someone to be a [male genitalia].
These sorts of people very much won't stop face camping unless they literally can not face camp, no amount of incentives will make them stop.
So, no, I don't agree that the right way to go about it is not punishing people for doing it, because the only way of stopping some people from doing it will be making it so they can't do it in the first place.
For the record I am a Killer main, one of the main reasons I'm a Killer main is my that VERY FIRST GAME I played was as Survivor and I found first, easily downed and then face camped. My second game someone else was found first, downed and face camped and when they died I was found, downed and face camped so I said "Fine! I'll be the Killer and REFUSE to face camp anyone so it doesn't happen!"
I want to see face camping outright removed from the game. No incentives not to do it, nothing sort of not being able to face camp anyone will be enough for me. But it has to be done in such a way that it doesn't hurt proxy camping with isn't so easy to do and would require testing to get right.
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I don't think they could make a reasonable incentive for me to stop face camping.
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I still don't see how anything positive can come from punishing a killer for killing. Face camping already can be punished via the other survivors having more than enough time to finish gens and leave.
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The problem with a multiplayer game is you rely on other people to get the most out of the game. By face camping the Killer player is purposefully not playing the game as intended and depriving the other four players of a worthwhile gaming experience. A Killer's job is not just to kill one Survivor but to protect the gens and kill ALL of the Survivors. By face camping they are not doing their job of finding, chasing and hooking EVERYONE.
So the Killer isn't actually killing. The get one kill if the Survivors know what they are doing, maybe two only ever rearely more when the Survivors have no idea what to do. The problem is that most people don't know what to do against a face camping Killer so they dive bomb the hook for saves and just get downed and slugged.
And of course sometimes you don't even know the Killer is camping so you go and check and waste time that could have been placed on a gen. Kindred really should be base-kit for Survivors, to help Solo Q be more in line with S.W.F. so people will know when the Killer is face camping and if it IS safe to go for the save is anyone is actually doing so. That would be a major help in removing SOME of the camper if they knew they'd be seen but really face camping as a whole just needs to be hard shut down.
Face camping is not the Killer doing their job, face camping is the Killer wanting to ruin four people's gaming experience to get their own fun off of making other people mad.
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I still feel like the issue should be incentivizing killers to not camp, not punish them when they do. They're already punished for doing their job: Dead hard, Unbreakable, Decisive Strike (You can literally down someone, hook them, down someone else, hook them, meet the first person again and still get DS'd despite it not being tunneling at that point.) Some killers facecamp because they want to, but others do it because they're left without much option otherwise. It might suck for survivor, but the game shouldn't be made even less fun for killers, either.
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I'm a Killer Main, I know the pain of games where you have three Dead Hards and that one Survivor who makes it really obvious they have D.S. or the B.T. Body Blockers when I just want to go after the unhooker or that 59 second D.S. on the person who run into you in the middle of chase with a third unrelated person.
My problem is that no matter what incentives you give to Killer players there will ALWAYS be people who don't care and just want to face camp. Out of all the various toxic [male bovine excrement] in his deities forsaken game face camping is something that can be hard coded to just out right not happen and done in such a way that it only impacts the players that do it just to do it.
You need to camp out a hook at two gens for pressure? You can do that from 16 meters away, proxy camp it. There is more of a risk someone will get the save yes but it is a much better experience for everyone else involved than the Killer just standing there face to face with the person on the hook.
This game is not well balanced at all, lots of things need to be changed for it but I feel that face camping is something that outright needs to be shut down because of just how negative of an experience it is. My very two first real games I was face camped and it very nearly made me uninstall. If I hadn't been playing with two veterans who talked me out of it I very well may not be here today and have told others to not bother playing the game.
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Well, let's not shutdown face camping until other core issues are addressed first. As a killer main, you should not want to punish all other killers because some face camp. I honestly believe most face camps are a symptom of other problems.
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Mm perhaps basekit BBQ, but without aura read and only gives the stack if you are 32+ meters away when unhook happens. It's something without being a buff at all.
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That won't help anyone, people who hardcore face camp aren't concerned about points.
They aren't going make hook timer stopping basekit because we've tested it before and it immediately got abused and made the experience even worse for the hooked person as they would never die until the end of the game. It was bad for both sides while not fixing the issue in the slightest. That is why it is a perk with specific limitations.
People who hardcore face camp from moment one will not stop doing it until it is completely impossible to do and that is a scenario that can only happen with changes to the core gameplay of killer itself which seems unlikely after 6 years.
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The problem with what they "tried before" was that it didn't take into account other Survivors being around, only the Killer. So of course it was abused to loop around the hook. If they make it so things check for the Killer being within 16 meters of the hook AND no healthy or injured Survivor (so excluding dying or hooked people) within that same distance then it can't be abused like it had been in the past.
You want to learn from history to not repeat it but not discard things that didn't work before because they were not implemented correctly.
The devs already have the code for everything, with Kindred being able to tell how close the Killer is to the hook and
CamaraderieKinship having both another Survivor's position and pausing the timer. Take those bits of code and put them together so that it counts everything then make it base-kit and now Killers can't face camp unless another Survivor is near the hook waiting to save. This would also tell the Killer if no one else is around AND tell the Survivor that the Killer is face camping with no one around without having to reveal auras or anything like that.But I do agree that the core gameplay of things needs to change in some way to make thing more fun for both sides.
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My solution to face camping would be to allow the game to recognize when a survivor is being camped. If the killer is in your vicinity while you're on the hook for more than 30 seconds, you should be able to automatically jump off the hook and be able to take at least one hit without being put back into the dying state, kind of like a self use of borrowed time. That way your teammates don't have the burden or risk of trying to save you and it would make sense because that's what kind of happens in actual horror movies or shows. The survivor or main characters gains enough strength to set them self free and escape after getting fed up with the killers chaotic antics. Sounds dumb I know but something has to be done about face camping because it makes the game unfun and unplayable for unlucky players against their will. Come on dbd devs, what yall dooooiiinnn. Lol
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I think this speaks a truth not many people realize anymore, is that the first dozen or so survivor matches are brutal with nearly every match having both sides of the game playing poorly. Of course the survivors don't know what they're doing yet since it's nobody's fault not to know much about a game going into it, and some killers truly are babies but don't face camp and that's why I respect them so much when they don't dc. However the shear amount that do facecamp at that ranking of the game is what looms over people who first play the game. It hits them in every match and has them think that it's always going to happen and then they see the amount of grind it takes to prevent it with perks and just give up.
Also I think a lot of people who commented didn't read my wall of text which is fair, but I went into detail on ways that if it's set up that way it couldn't be abused by either side lol
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I play a lot more killer but low rank survivor is full of facecampers tbh, it's 1/3 of my games if not more, and since I always play solo very few teammates are able to coordinate and counter it, these games are the worst it's not fun in the slightest when killer just facecamp his very first hook
I find pyramid heads cages have a cool design, it simply relocate far away if you stay too close for too long.. if all hooks are like that then facecamp isn't a thing anymore, or possibly only the first hook could relocate not the second ? Idk but just to avoid that first hook facecamp, very frustrating
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uuu, option to torture one survivor for longer duration. That will feel nice, I would need to have a book ready next to me at all times.
I will rather just die by timer and play next game...
I bet that if you would pause the timer you will have lot of survivors just killing themself asap.They are doing it already...
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The Killer has the freedom to camp cause that gives them freedom to be evil, its up the BHVR to give Survivors tools to fairly deal with it.
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Camping is bad, yes.
If you want the killer to stop camping, stop bringing powerful perks and rushing the hook.
Many campers do what they do because survivors have made it sadly an incredibly viable if not necessary-at-times solution to increasingly brazen interactions.
On the dev's side, having a change in BP yield to make camping less lucrative for points would also push killers out to chase and gain points more efficiently.
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Honestly, just getting rid of Deadhard would make camping less powerful. For low lethality killers, Deadhard is a 50% increase to the game duration. (One outplay for the injure, one outplay for the down, or if you have deadhard, two outplays for the down.) No one WANTS to sit there and face camp, but deadhard punishes you for actually playing by making it so your rewards are negated. Camping is actually more beneficial, tactically and BP wise, than a chase that ends in nothing cause they deadharded.
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DeadHard is a massive reason behind this, yes.
But that one Bill that we all know has BT and is dead-set on using it is also the problem.
Sometimes, playing killer, one can only groan as they search for any reason to leave the hook as 3 survivors close in for the risky unhook.
Yes - Even worse is when you leave the hook for a moment and get into a chase, but then realize that the person you spent 70 seconds chasing earlier just got unhooked and is halfway to full health again to repeat the process.
When chases can be extended so long with Dead Hard, it crushes the spirit of killers with any ambition to find value away from forcing survivors into a trade.
There are so many second chance perks and counters that survivor players are actively encouraged to act brazen and foolishly close in for saves. Picking apart would-be saviors will always be more lucrative than trying to chase around strong structures and loops.
IMO Dead Hard is a double edged sword in these cases. Makes me want to camp to secure a kill at times - but a lot of the time it boosts survivors into artificially high MMR where they are filled with completely misplaced confidence and often get themselves killed.
It's just a sad show for both sides.
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