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So Decisive strike...

The_Crusader
The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
in Feedback and Suggestions
Since I get the feeling a number of you don't play the game in your own time, here are the last 3 of my games...

1) Down survivor. Walk to basement nearby. They hit 35% and surprise Decisive strike me. I now have another chase which lets a gen get done and I'm robbed of early momentum.

2) Down survivor at end while other is dying on hook. Pick up survivor, decisive strike, free escape into hatch.

3) Down survivor in exit gates, pick up, decisive strike and yet another free victory.

Lets be completely honest with each other. Its little more than a free victory. In the above 2 situations there's literally nothing you can do to win. They either crawl to the exit or they strike you and walk out. Is that really what you want? You want the survivors to have a free win? 

It's beyond broken. It's a laughing stock, and still we have nothing.

The other ideas weren't perfect but they sure as hell sounded better than what we have now.
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Comments

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    Why not running enduring with spirit fury, maybe your chases wouldnt take so long, to literally catch 1 survivor after 5 gens were done, when i play as killer i dont even run ruin, u just have to learn how to chase, if u decide to chase the survivor with ds as well, after he's been looping u for hours, then learn from it and chase someone else, common sense lol

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    BBQ doesnt even need a nerf, i swear devs never listen to the community lol

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    edited November 2018
    G4rr3tt said:

    Why not running enduring with spirit fury, maybe your chases wouldnt take so long, to literally catch 1 survivor after 5 gens were done, when i play as killer i dont even run ruin, u just have to learn how to chase, if u decide to chase the survivor with ds as well, after he's been looping u for hours, then learn from it and chase someone else, common sense lol

    Where did I say I only caught 1 survivor after gens were done?

    In 1 one those games they got the hatch, meaning the other 3 were dead and the gens were not done.

    In the last yeah there was 2 survivors left (not 4), I had the misfortune of going to the exit gate that had the guy with decisive (how was I to know)?

    So no, don't try to turn this into a "git gud" thing by pulling that theory out of your backside.

    In fact what you said is the damn point I'm trying to make. People ignore DS guy because he wastes too much time. So he still has his DS at the exit gate or hatch which grants a free escape.

    Or in the two above cases I either A) Never saw DS guy until the end or B ) I'd hooked him earlier by dribbling so the DS was still there.
  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    edited November 2018
    G4rr3tt said:

    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    Only because I ignore DS.

    They shouldnt be granted a free escape due to a broken perk. And to get the exit gates they aren't 3 kill games.

    If I'm dominating the games then I try to slug one guy then get the obsession, take DS, hook him and by then the last has crawled to the hatch but I dont care because I'm fed up or Mr Decisive always being the one to get the hatch. Its not just me this happens to.

    Still you have to look at this from a gameplay perspective.

    - I down survivor near exit gates or hatch
    - I now literally can not win this situation. If I do nothing, he crawls out, if I pick up, he stikes me and runs out.

    What kind of game puts you in an unwinnable situation like that?
  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43
    edited November 2018

    Broken perk? you know what's broken dude? get on a lobby with 50 ms and suddenly as you "loop" the killer a little bit just to survive, POOOF 400 ms stuck on a window and game connection turns normal when you are on a hook, that's broken, and you know what? that's been on this game since it came out and it wont be fixed.. deal with it as we deal with lag switchers, tunnelers and campers, it's a counter perk. Again if you are getting 3 kills on a team that runs ds and adrenaline too, you should consider yourself a good and lucky killer. A smart tip, try to mind game a survivor with ds and eat ds as fast as u can, the faster u eat the ds the less chances they have, literally do that when i play as killer and then i play relaxed.

    EDIT: I legit just got out of a game, where a billy lagswitched cus i dropped a pallet on him as he chased me, u know how much the long chased? probably not even 10 seconds, checked connection, good 60 ms, and suddenly as i drop the pallet, he's standing still, and boop i appear on a hook, GREAT GAME.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    G4rr3tt said:

    Broken perk? you know what's broken dude? get on a lobby with 50 ms and suddenly as you "loop" the killer a little bit just to survive, POOOF 400 ms stuck on a window and game connection turns normal when you are on a hook, that's broken, and you know what? that's been on this game since it came out and it wont be fixed.. deal with it as we deal with lag switchers, tunnelers and campers, it's a counter perk. Again if you are getting 3 kills on a team that runs ds and adrenaline too, you should consider yourself a good and lucky killer. A smart tip, try to mind game a survivor with ds and eat ds as fast as u can, the faster u eat the ds the less chances they have, literally do that when i play as killer and then i play relaxed.

    I play survivor too and I get the lag issues.

    Killers camp and tunnel yes. That's a playstyle, not a perk. Dont get me wrong I absolutely HATE it when killers play like that but...

    Devs at the moment can't do anything about the way crappy killers play. They can only discourage it.

    A broken perk though? Thats a much easirr fix.
  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    So, a total playstyle that can ruin a whole game, "oh we are sorry" but 1 perk that just triggers u cus u cant get a 4k, "######### LET'S FIX IT" that's just plain dumb lmao im done mate

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    G4rr3tt said:

    So, a total playstyle that can ruin a whole game, "oh we are sorry" but 1 perk that just triggers u cus u cant get a 4k, "[BAD WORD] LET'S FIX IT" that's just plain dumb lmao im done mate

    Umm, I've complained about camping and tunneling a lot on here.

    Why are you making it into an us vs them issue? I play a lot of survivor too.

    But it is a harder issue to fix. Thats a fact. Becausd you're not changing a perk you're forcing people to change their playstyle.
  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    It's not a vs man, you are complaining about a perk, like if it were something so relevant, im just really tired of ppl complaining about ds, and now that killers got so buffed i still see ppl, camping, tunneling lag switching and yet saying "well you have ds so" legit stupid, i sometimes dont even run ds just to see if killers will still camp and tunnel, no adrenaline, no "op asf" survivor perks, still get tunneled and camped, complain about it and what do we get? "lel cry more and git gud" but hey then when a survivor runs ds and they cant kill it, qq is op, this is a never ending subject man, some survivors abuse it, most of them, but u know most of killers abuse campng and tunneling too, so both sides have to deal with it, tunneling a camping is a valid strategy? k so it's using ds to not get camped and tunneled, it's a counter to both sides, but u know, yet a survivor cant lag switch to get all the game on it's favor, killers do, and seeing killers complain survivors are op still makes me rage honestly, feels like they havent played old killer before 2.1.0. and let me tell you, that stuff was legit broken in survivors favor, but now it's pretty balanced, and maybe a little bit more on killers favor if we put on the table the fact that killers can run a very storng anty loop build combined with pallet nerfs.

  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799
    ToppingPanic said:

    Bruh every killer runs NOED, Ruin and BBQ, and you're trying to nerf the only way survivors fight back -_-

    Cute, another survivor main. Even if weird I agree with the crusader on this one (it feels wrong)

    Noed- cleanse totems, i know big revelation
    Bbq- you literally have 6 ways to counter it. Just to make you happy let's list the ones available WITHOUT perks.
    1) hide behind a gen
    2) fake direction for 4s
    3) stand still for 4s then move wherever you want
    AAAaand ruin-  its an hex.. Every hex is literally a gamble. That might last 5s or 2min, depending on how crappy the totem spawn is. Usually awful as always.

    So yeah.. Enduring for ds? Ok but you still left the killer grasp. What if the roles were switched. If you looped or did good losing or gaining distance from the killer, he presses a button and once per game get a free mori :) not enjoyable huh?

    After using DS often people just rush to the closest loop, do their things, drop the pallet and next loop. Especially if its a safe pallet for example, so yeah your example are totally messed since every example of "powerful perk" on killer side are counterable without even interacting with the killer, just saying
  • Patrick99
    Patrick99 Member Posts: 41

    @ToppingPanic said:
    Bruh every killer runs NOED, Ruin and BBQ, and you're trying to nerf the only way survivors fight back -_-

    A ) Even those who DO run those specific perks can still get screwed over by a SWF group, competent players who can get the job DONE or someone who happens to spawn in at the right place at the right time. Trust me, I run Ruin on a lot of my Killers and I have had times where Ruin got destroyed in the first 30 seconds. I sometimes run some of the BEST perks I have available (Agitation, Ruin, Nurse's Calling, BBQ and Chili, Brutal Strength, etc) and I STILL lose some of my games.

    B ) You make it sound like DS is the ONLY perk that's useful in a match, when it's not even close. Self-Care, Urban Evasion, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Spine Chill and even Deliverance are sometimes god-tier and, IMO, more reliable than a one-time getaway card with a Skill Check you can still miss, regardless of whether Unnerving Presence is in play.
    Trust me, if the Survivor is good enough, they can run NO perks at all and still win. Trust me, I've done it before (With Adam Francis actually since I needed to complete two challenges with him and I haven't put any bloodpoints in him at ALL. Figured I'd do without any perks to see where I ended up).

    C ) The purpose of the game isn't to fight back. This ain't Friday the 13th where you can smack Jason with a frying pan and t-bag him while he's stunned. The main goal is to ESCAPE. That's why there are 5 generators, 2 Exit Doors and a Hatch in EVERY match we play. And in these matches, there are more tools to use, from toolboxes that speed up generator progress and disable hooks to pallets littered across the map, the BANE of every Killer's existence and why "pallet looping" became a thing in this game! Even with the nerf, flashlights can still be a damn lifesaver if you know how to use it!

    The problem with Decisive Strike is basically this: With all of the additional ways to counter the Killer, DS is probably the most recognizable and the most hated among Killers. Depending on the chase, you could have the Survivor downed after almost all Generators are complete, get hit with Decisive Strike and have to redo the whole thing again. It also doesn't help that a lot of DS users tend to be toxic as hell.

    This is the formula of Dead by Daylight in a nutshell: four weak Survivors vs one powerful Killer. The survivors have to work together in order to fix the generators and open the doors to escape. The Killer has to stop them. That said, there are plenty of tools that can slow down the Killer (like pallets and windows), but not stop him. Only by working together can you escape and live another day. With DS, you almost lose the weak factor entirely. And btw, every Survivor can run DS and use it regardless of whether they're the obsession or not. It ain't that hard to get above the 30% struggle bar sometimes. It's a huge power grab from the Killer and a huge part of the toxicity in this game. It might not be the biggest problem with this game, but it's well near the top.

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    We are talking about looping, like if it were idk, before 2.1.0 where survivors exhaustion would regen as u ran, had 2 million pallets, pallet vacuum, safe window vaulting, and killers didnt have spirit fury, right now we dont have any of those, plus bloodlust got hella buffed, getting chased for 3 or 4 seconds and bloodlust already levels up making the killer run faster than crap, i legit sometimes see killer running at the same speed than my sprint burst buff so running speed base perks is almost pointless unless u have a blank point to break the chase which doesnt happen quite often, and let's not even count that most pallets have been removed, example of typical game i face a survivor, seeing teammates suddenly get surprised by a killer they dont see, get hit, they loop the killer for 2 pallets, they die on the third pallet, chase lasted barely a minute, and hey guess what, almost half the pallets gone on the map, again killers right now dont know what it was to play half a year ago lmao..

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    @G4rr3tt I hate those things too ans they do need addressing. I've brought it up many times here and I always get the "its a legit strategy" defence. I want camping and tunneling gone as much as you do believe me but that doesn't mean that DS isn't broken.

    @ToppingPanic NOED I'll give you. I've complained avout that many times myself. Howrver right now it's needed to make up for all the hooks lost due to DS.

    BBQ and Ruin? Really? I didn't know they were perceieved as such a problem.

    I don't run Ruin anymore because its gone in 30 seconds. You'll get games where its cleansed before you can even get to it. It's a worthless perk for most killers and even more so against SWF. I only take it on the hag since she can defend it and it's needed to buy her time to set a few traps.

    BBQ - Just speeds up the game. Also notivates the killer to go at least 40m away from the hook. Whenever I use BBQ I go after a new guy, which means I'm too preoccupied with downing the new guy to go back and tunnel whoever got unhooked.

    Besides it was easy to hide behind gens and soon you'll be able to hide in lockers too.

    @Malakir and I can't believe I agree with you but yeah this is like of a survivor is looping or on the other side of a pallet and you get to hit a skillcheck and the killer just reaches across, grabs him and puts him on his shoulder ready for the hook.

    It wastes too much time in a time rushed game.


    Honestly the biggest probelms everyone has with this game right now...

    Killers - Hate OP survivor perks. Individually they aren't so bads it's when theys stack across 4 survivors and 16 perk slots that it becomes too much

    Survivors - Hate the way killers play, camping, tunneling

    So nerfing BBQ made no sense.

    The devs need to find ways to nerf survivors perks but at the same time protect survivors who have been hooked or recently hooked. It would take some extreme changes to do that.
  • BullDawg
    BullDawg Member Posts: 3
    The_Crusader said:
    @G4rr3tt I hate those things too ans they do need addressing. I've brought it up many times here and I always get the "its a legit strategy" defence. I want camping and tunneling gone as much as you do believe me but that doesn't mean that DS isn't broken.

    @ToppingPanic NOED I'll give you. I've complained avout that many times myself. Howrver right now it's needed to make up for all the hooks lost due to DS.

    BBQ and Ruin? Really? I didn't know they were perceieved as such a problem.

    I don't run Ruin anymore because its gone in 30 seconds. You'll get games where its cleansed before you can even get to it. It's a worthless perk for most killers and even more so against SWF. I only take it on the hag since she can defend it and it's needed to buy her time to set a few traps.

    BBQ - Just speeds up the game. Also notivates the killer to go at least 40m away from the hook. Whenever I use BBQ I go after a new guy, which means I'm too preoccupied with downing the new guy to go back and tunnel whoever got unhooked.

    Besides it was easy to hide behind gens and soon you'll be able to hide in lockers too.

    @Malakir and I can't believe I agree with you but yeah this is like of a survivor is looping or on the other side of a pallet and you get to hit a skillcheck and the killer just reaches across, grabs him and puts him on his shoulder ready for the hook.

    It wastes too much time in a time rushed game.


    Honestly the biggest probelms everyone has with this game right now...

    Killers - Hate OP survivor perks. Individually they aren't so bads it's when theys stack across 4 survivors and 16 perk slots that it becomes too much

    Survivors - Hate the way killers play, camping, tunneling

    So nerfing BBQ made no sense.

    The devs need to find ways to nerf survivors perks but at the same time protect survivors who have been hooked or recently hooked. It would take some extreme changes to do that.
    There needs to be a way to reliably slow the game down. Gens can be finished extremely fast, at times a killer has no choice but to tunnel and get someone out of the game. I understand some killers likely do that every game regardless, and I’m not speaking on their behalf as an every game play style.

    Survivors are partly to blame in SOME situations also. I’ve seen many make very questionable unhooks in front of a killer’s face.

  • friendlykillermain
    friendlykillermain Member Posts: 3,162

    @G4rr3tt said:
    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    so what if he got a 3 kill? he was robbed of his rightful victory by a broken perk hatch is unfair enough already i feel his pain its one of my biggest gripes with this game

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @The_Crusader said:
    Since I get the feeling a number of you don't play the game in your own time, here are the last 3 of my games...

    1) Down survivor. Walk to basement nearby. They hit 35% and surprise Decisive strike me. I now have another chase which lets a gen get done and I'm robbed of early momentum.

    2) Down survivor at end while other is dying on hook. Pick up survivor, decisive strike, free escape into hatch.

    3) Down survivor in exit gates, pick up, decisive strike and yet another free victory.

    Lets be completely honest with each other. Its little more than a free victory. In the above 2 situations there's literally nothing you can do to win. They either crawl to the exit or they strike you and walk out. Is that really what you want? You want the survivors to have a free win? 

    It's beyond broken. It's a laughing stock, and still we have nothing.

    The other ideas weren't perfect but they sure as hell sounded better than what we have now.

    Whenever a non-obsession DS strikes me or the obsession is a toxic player, the survivors will regret that game really hard.

    There is only one true counter to DS, you slugg. Yes I know, its extremely hard to pull off and doesnt really work against SWF, but boy.... it will create a salt overflow for sure :smile:

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @ToppingPanic said:
    Bruh every killer runs NOED, Ruin and BBQ, and you're trying to nerf the only way survivors fight back -_-

    NOED => cleanse totems, perk has ZERO effect
    RUIN => spawn on totem, ez (or hit skillchecks)
    BBQ => jump into lockers

    Thanks for your comment :smile:

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    friendlykillermain said:

    @G4rr3tt said:
    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    so what if he got a 3 kill? he was robbed of his rightful victory by a broken perk hatch is unfair enough already i feel his pain its one of my biggest gripes with this game

    To be honest I'm not fussed if survivors get the hatch. I normally let them because I cba with a hatch standoff.

    I only go for them if I see them far away from the hatch or as in the case above I see them befofe the hatch opens.

    It's just infuriating that this one perk 100% guarentees them a victory in the hatch/exit gate scenario.

    You know when 1 perk guarentees a free escape and the killer is powerless to stop it that the perk in question is insanely broken.

    So many toxic playerd having their egos fed by being boosted with a broken perk.

    I actuakly try to take DS out first in this scenario so the other guy can get the hatch because god knows the decisive user doesn't deserve the escape. They always get it because a lot of killers dont want to waste their time with them. So everyone else gets hooked instead.
  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    @friendlykillermain said:

    @G4rr3tt said:
    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    so what if he got a 3 kill? he was robbed of his rightful victory by a broken perk hatch is unfair enough already i feel his pain its one of my biggest gripes with this game

    See this is the proble, you think you lose if u dont get 4k, sometimes u get 4k, sometimes u dont, sometimes you survive and sometimes you dont, you know i use ds a lot, but not cus omg it's easy and #########, legit im tired of getting tunneled and camped to the point i cant even do 1 gen, i legit wouldnt run ds if that wouldnt be the case, and im pretty sure many solo survivors who enjoy a good chase, do some progress on the game, wouldnt mind dying, i myself give away to the killers many times cus i did what i wanted to, a good chase, some gens, it was fun, no need to escape, both sides win, but if u play to get all 4 kills by camping and tunneling keep dealing with ds, it's the only escape for a survivor if u play dirty, i had many situations as killer where the survivor barely made it out, after getting hooked twice, cus of a ds or someshit, and they tbag and act cooky and yeah it's annoying, but you know the fact they are doing that, it's cus they are salty ugot them before, and with the nerfe on bbq and chili, man killer getting iron maiden, i cant believe ppl cant read patch notes or new perks coming out, "BBQ BEEN NERFED PLS HELP, WE CANT SEE SURVIVORS IN LOCKERS NOW BBQ IS USELESS OH GOD WHAT WE GONNA DO" bro chill ur tits just use iron maiden and no more locker dwightos, simple as that, and also i mainly use bbq and chili for 100% bloodpoints, if u want a good perk to see survivors out there, just run nurse call and injure them all, i always find them thanks to nurse call rather than bbq n chili honestly...

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    G4rr3tt said:

    @friendlykillermain said:

    @G4rr3tt said:
    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    so what if he got a 3 kill? he was robbed of his rightful victory by a broken perk hatch is unfair enough already i feel his pain its one of my biggest gripes with this game

    See this is the proble, you think you lose if u dont get 4k, sometimes u get 4k, sometimes u dont, sometimes you survive and sometimes you dont, you know i use ds a lot, but not cus omg it's easy and #########, legit im tired of getting tunneled and camped to the point i cant even do 1 gen, i legit wouldnt run ds if that wouldnt be the case, and im pretty sure many solo survivors who enjoy a good chase, do some progress on the game, wouldnt mind dying, i myself give away to the killers many times cus i did what i wanted to, a good chase, some gens, it was fun, no need to escape, both sides win, but if u play to get all 4 kills by camping and tunneling keep dealing with ds, it's the only escape for a survivor if u play dirty, i had many situations as killer where the survivor barely made it out, after getting hooked twice, cus of a ds or someshit, and they tbag and act cooky and yeah it's annoying, but you know the fact they are doing that, it's cus they are salty ugot them before, and with the nerfe on bbq and chili, man killer getting iron maiden, i cant believe ppl cant read patch notes or new perks coming out, "BBQ BEEN NERFED PLS HELP, WE CANT SEE SURVIVORS IN LOCKERS NOW BBQ IS USELESS OH GOD WHAT WE GONNA DO" bro chill ur tits just use iron maiden and no more locker dwightos, simple as that, and also i mainly use bbq and chili for 100% bloodpoints, if u want a good perk to see survivors out there, just run nurse call and injure them all, i always find them thanks to nurse call rather than bbq n chili honestly...

    It's not about how many kills you get.

    It's the fact that a survivor is guarenteed an escape due to a perk choice made before the match even began.

    Survivors got their counter to BBQ - lockers, add this to distortion, and being within 40m, and hiding behind the gen, and faking directions etc etc

    There's no counterplay to a decisive strike escape other than chasing down the obsession early and being forced to waste your time taking the stun and letting a gen pop in tradeoff.

    That's the problem.

    It's a huge return for such little investment on the survivors part.
  • DarkGGhost
    DarkGGhost Member Posts: 1,072

    Here the true Killers have perks with a lot of drawback survivors don't, killers use perks to counter think in the game ( most of the time no even the perks of survivors), killers can't make mistakes survivors can make and will not punish most of the time, and killers get nerf after nerf ( sorry once in a will we may take a buff to one or two killers) survivors ask for more ( the last time killer get buff we wait the nerf to came and oh boy they are worst for what we expect ).

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43
    edited November 2018

    Man, most of your frustration i bet it comes from toxic swf, i honestly never escape from a killer on high ranks, me and all my teammates always get demolished doing 2 or 3 gens, again, solo players are too weak for killers, if you have problems with swf dont lead them to every survivor on the game, i play alone, and i escape 1/20 games, and that single game i escaped, i was the only one and thru the hatch, i dont know how you play, but on my side as a solo survivor all the things we have right now, only gives us little time, even more when ur team is clueless and farms you in front of a killer without borrow time, but it's just a waste of time, again killers rn complain survivor is still op and i bet my ass they didnt play before 2.1.0....

    BTW: just got out of a game, where a killer lagswitched to get al lof us again, while everyone complains about, nobody does nothing towards lag switchers, i get lag switched on 2 of 5 games, and that's a lot, tunneled into lagswitch, what's funny? we get a ban for dc, honestly i dont care, if they start banning ppl for dc against a killer that lag switch and tunnels, let's see how many players they end up having, at that rate the game will die faster than ever.

  • Oooooof
    Oooooof Member Posts: 109

    One more of these killers that complains about DS. Its only stressfull if all survivors have the perk and when is you gonna se that? Never anymore. And if you hate the perk, use enduring or some counterperks like that. 30% escaperate? Really? Thats what happens when the devs listen to killers like you. Survivors needs buffs xd "THE SURVIVOR ESCAPED BECAUSE OF DS OMG" but you dont realize you got 3 other survivors lol. The balance will be around 2 kills every game and when i play killer i get around 3-4. Im gonna love to see some survivor buffs (maybe add some of the pallets back because right now there is no pallets some places at maps) or something like that?

  • Oooooof
    Oooooof Member Posts: 109

    btw if the hatch was not in the game, i think the escaperate will be like 10% because many survivors escape with the hatch.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    edited November 2018
    Oooooof said:

    One more of these killers that complains about DS. Its only stressfull if all survivors have the perk and when is you gonna se that? Never anymore. 

    Yeah that's not true is it pal.

    Every 4/5 games has Decisive Strike in it for me - and thats a low estimation. Often times it will be at least 2 DS users in a game, sometimes 3.

    I'd love to download this version of DBD that survivor mains are playing where nobody uses Decisive Strike.
  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    @G4rr3tt said:
    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    Firstly, whether someone kills 4 or kills 0 is completely and utterly irrelevant about whether DS is an issue or not.

    Second, Enduring is not a counter for DS, they still get to a loop or window.

    Third, Spirit Fury is getting you 1 hit after you've been looped multiple times around 2 pallets. This is assuming no exhaustion perk, him having another DS as well, or the fact that now you have to get the second hit...which means another 2 pallets worth of loops..also baring no windows.

    Even with those perks, he's still lost a lot of gens in that time...for 1 hook...also assuming no body blocks or flashlights. That one hook got him 1/12 of his objectives completed while it got the survivors almost 50% of theirs done.

    A final note as well. Points/Pips is not winning, that was what the devs did with rank up changes to brainwash you into thinking you actually won when you lost so everyone can be happy instead of actually buffing the killers to where they should be. A killer that didn't kill, didn't win.

  • tt_ivi_99
    tt_ivi_99 Member Posts: 1,463
    The_Crusader said:
    Since I get the feeling a number of you don't play the game in your own time, here are the last 3 of my games...

    1) Down survivor. Walk to basement nearby. They hit 35% and surprise Decisive strike me. I now have another chase which lets a gen get done and I'm robbed of early momentum.

    2) Down survivor at end while other is dying on hook. Pick up survivor, decisive strike, free escape into hatch.

    3) Down survivor in exit gates, pick up, decisive strike and yet another free victory.

    Lets be completely honest with each other. Its little more than a free victory. In the above 2 situations there's literally nothing you can do to win. They either crawl to the exit or they strike you and walk out. Is that really what you want? You want the survivors to have a free win? 

    It's beyond broken. It's a laughing stock, and still we have nothing.

    The other ideas weren't perfect but they sure as hell sounded better than what we have now.

    The_Crusader said:
    Oooooof said:

    One more of these killers that complains about DS. Its only stressfull if all survivors have the perk and when is you gonna se that? Never anymore. 

    Yeah that's not true is it pal.

    Every 4/5 games has Decisive Strike in it for me - and thats a low estimation. Often times it will be at least 2 DS users in a game, sometimes 3.

    I'd love to download this version of DBD that survivor mains are playing where nobody uses Decisive Strike.
    If you wanna nerf Decisive then nerf NOED as well
    One guarantees a scape, the other one guarantees a kill.
  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799
    tt_ivi_99 said:
    The_Crusader said:
    Since I get the feeling a number of you don't play the game in your own time, here are the last 3 of my games...

    1) Down survivor. Walk to basement nearby. They hit 35% and surprise Decisive strike me. I now have another chase which lets a gen get done and I'm robbed of early momentum.

    2) Down survivor at end while other is dying on hook. Pick up survivor, decisive strike, free escape into hatch.

    3) Down survivor in exit gates, pick up, decisive strike and yet another free victory.

    Lets be completely honest with each other. Its little more than a free victory. In the above 2 situations there's literally nothing you can do to win. They either crawl to the exit or they strike you and walk out. Is that really what you want? You want the survivors to have a free win? 

    It's beyond broken. It's a laughing stock, and still we have nothing.

    The other ideas weren't perfect but they sure as hell sounded better than what we have now.

    The_Crusader said:
    Oooooof said:

    One more of these killers that complains about DS. Its only stressfull if all survivors have the perk and when is you gonna se that? Never anymore. 

    Yeah that's not true is it pal.

    Every 4/5 games has Decisive Strike in it for me - and thats a low estimation. Often times it will be at least 2 DS users in a game, sometimes 3.

    I'd love to download this version of DBD that survivor mains are playing where nobody uses Decisive Strike.
    If you wanna nerf Decisive then nerf NOED as well
    One guarantees a scape, the other one guarantees a kill.
    Another guy comparing noed with DS. Noed can be prevented before it even activate DS is a Press a Button to escape, which is different

    If you don't find a difference between an hex and especially noed that leave the killer with 3 perk until late game and being even prevented and leave him with 3 perks for actually the whole game, then I can't help you. Some people needs to think sometimes and other times they can't

    I stopped using any hex ages ago, its a gamble I won't take, its pointless even run ruin for how fast get destroyed. I used it when practicing nurse on console, 8/10 times didn't even procd because they cleaned everything so yeah, totally comparable
  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    @Blueberry said:

    @G4rr3tt said:
    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    Firstly, whether someone kills 4 or kills 0 is completely and utterly irrelevant about whether DS is an issue or not.

    Second, Enduring is not a counter for DS, they still get to a loop or window.

    Third, Spirit Fury is getting you 1 hit after you've been looped multiple times around 2 pallets. This is assuming no exhaustion perk, him having another DS as well, or the fact that now you have to get the second hit...which means another 2 pallets worth of loops..also baring no windows.

    Even with those perks, he's still lost a lot of gens in that time...for 1 hook...also assuming no body blocks or flashlights. That one hook got him 1/12 of his objectives completed while it got the survivors almost 50% of theirs done.

    A final note as well. Points/Pips is not winning, that was what the devs did with rank up changes to brainwash you into thinking you actually won when you lost so everyone can be happy instead of actually buffing the killers to where they should be. A killer that didn't kill, didn't win.

    Wat?? after you hit ds you still have exhaustion dude, it only goes to 0 when you are hooked, and when you are running it doesnt go down, so u can legit use an exhaustion perk once per chase, and killers are way faster than survivors now even when you have the sprint burst buff they still catch up, and yes ds is relevant to kills, because if it were a perk that's making every single survivor escape due to a let's say, THIRD chance, after getting hooked twice, well i would understand what you say, but i mean even if they all run ds, 3 of them have to wigle to 35%, and there are hooks right next to each other, there are legit more hooks than pallets, when i dont have the obsession i never hit ds cus i get hooked before the skill check, with that being said if only 1 survivor escapes and thru the hatch, you did a good job man, u got 3 kills, they didnt finish every gen, and sometimes u even get the survivor with ds hoooked as well, they just escape but they been hooked before, so u can even get a 4 stack bbq n chili for extra bloodpoints..

    All this ds crying is just baby crying at this point, "OH GOD 1 SURVIVOR ESCAPE THRU THE HATCH, I LOST CUS I DIDNT GET A 4K, THIS GAME IS BAD PLS BUFF KILLER" stop being a clown god

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    Oh and, forgot to say, you complain about ds stunning you even if u have enduring? fear not, we get hit thru pallets and window vaulting :shrugs: lol

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    @G4rr3tt said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @G4rr3tt said:
    So you are getting 3 kill games and you are complaining? lol you know a victory is not escaping, or killing all 4 survivors, a victory is having a good amount of points and piping in some cases, if you are getting 3 kills and 1 escapes thru the hatch then dont complain man.. You are pretty much saying that even with ds ur killing more than half the team, idk what's your point then

    Firstly, whether someone kills 4 or kills 0 is completely and utterly irrelevant about whether DS is an issue or not.

    Second, Enduring is not a counter for DS, they still get to a loop or window.

    Third, Spirit Fury is getting you 1 hit after you've been looped multiple times around 2 pallets. This is assuming no exhaustion perk, him having another DS as well, or the fact that now you have to get the second hit...which means another 2 pallets worth of loops..also baring no windows.

    Even with those perks, he's still lost a lot of gens in that time...for 1 hook...also assuming no body blocks or flashlights. That one hook got him 1/12 of his objectives completed while it got the survivors almost 50% of theirs done.

    A final note as well. Points/Pips is not winning, that was what the devs did with rank up changes to brainwash you into thinking you actually won when you lost so everyone can be happy instead of actually buffing the killers to where they should be. A killer that didn't kill, didn't win.

    Wat?? after you hit ds you still have exhaustion dude, it only goes to 0 when you are hooked, and when you are running it doesnt go down, so u can legit use an exhaustion perk once per chase, and killers are way faster than survivors now even when you have the sprint burst buff they still catch up, and yes ds is relevant to kills, because if it were a perk that's making every single survivor escape due to a let's say, THIRD chance, after getting hooked twice, well i would understand what you say, but i mean even if they all run ds, 3 of them have to wigle to 35%, and there are hooks right next to each other, there are legit more hooks than pallets, when i dont have the obsession i never hit ds cus i get hooked before the skill check, with that being said if only 1 survivor escapes and thru the hatch, you did a good job man, u got 3 kills, they didnt finish every gen, and sometimes u even get the survivor with ds hoooked as well, they just escape but they been hooked before, so u can even get a 4 stack bbq n chili for extra bloodpoints..

    All this ds crying is just baby crying at this point, "OH GOD 1 SURVIVOR ESCAPE THRU THE HATCH, I LOST CUS I DIDNT GET A 4K, THIS GAME IS BAD PLS BUFF KILLER" stop being a clown god

    So much nonsense here where to begin.

    Exhaustion doesn't matter, you still have plenty of time to reach a pallet or window. 35% wiggle means almost nothing whatsoever. The likelihood of getting downed 3 times where you were too close to a hook to use it not a single time is extremely low and highly unlikely. "if it were a perk that's making every single survivor escape" this is not what we are saying. We are saying it's giving a 4th life for free in a game where the killer is already vastly behind on time. The reason whether they got 4 or 0 kills isn't relevant to whether DS is a problem or not is because many survivors just play bad. Killing 4 stupid people doesn't mean the perk isn't too strong, it just means you had 4 stupid people. By your logic of "if only 1 survivor escapes and thru the hatch, you did a good job man, u got 3 kills" if all 4 of you are at the open exit gate the killer should just get to instantly mori one of you because HEY 3 of you escaped, you did good! Oh that would feel like you were cheated and didn't earn it because you were gonna escape? Welcome to the hatch and the standards you just placed. This terrible logic of yours further shown by a stupid comment like "OH GOD 1 SURVIVOR ESCAPE THRU THE HATCH, I LOST CUS I DIDNT GET A 4K" which isn't what we are saying whatsoever if you understood.

    If you played killer regularly at rank 1 your opinions would be very different.

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    Man, what killer do you even main, and how long you even played this game lmao..

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    "just bring enduring"

    If only it were that simple.

    Firstly we shouldn't have to. Literally everyone who unferstands videogames and plays dead by daylight knows that DS is broken. It shouldn't be in the game. Many streamers won't even use it because they know it's BS.

    Secondly and more inportantly...

    It's not as simple as just bringing enduring. A lot of us rotate through killers, we like to play them all. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get one soecific perk on all killers?

    First you need to level up Hillbilly. Fair enough that isn't so hard. Then however you have to level up 12 other killers often far beyond level 50 in order to get that perk. I've seen estimations of about 12 million blood points to get every perk on each character.

    I've got every killer perk unlocked now, so obviously I've got an insane amount floating about in the bloodwebs so the odds of enduring turning up are quite low.

    I think I have it on 4 maybe 5 killers, that leaves 8 killers without it and its taken me many, many hours of grinding to even get this far.

    Not to mention enduring doesn't fit certain characters builds anyway i.e Hag.
  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671
    edited December 2018

    @G4rr3tt said:
    Man, what killer do you even main, and how long you even played this game lmao..

    I main Spirit and I've got almost 2,400 hours over the last almost 3 years.

    And you?

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    You main spirit, with more than 2400 hours, and you are complaining about ds? you played as killer before 2.1.0 and you still think it's unbalanced? k im done, sorry for bothering lol..

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    G4rr3tt said:

    You main spirit, with more than 2400 hours, and you are complaining about ds? you played as killer before 2.1.0 and you still think it's unbalanced? k im done, sorry for bothering lol..

    Even the devs admit it's unbalanced, that's why they've been floating around different nerf ideas for it for ages.

    There's no question that it's unbalanced.
  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    Again, it's broken and unbalanced when facing swf.. it always comes to swf, i always played and will play alone, and will have to eat all the garbage nerfs because of swf toxicity, great BALANCE IDEAS

  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799
    G4rr3tt said:

    Again, it's broken and unbalanced when facing swf.. it always comes to swf, i always played and will play alone, and will have to eat all the garbage nerfs because of swf toxicity, great BALANCE IDEAS

    Some nerfs are dumb that's true, like the vault changes, I really didn't liked I

    Anyway you keep saying a free escape I balanced and advocate for that even when the devs themselves felt bad after seeing how abusable that perk is

    The stupid nerfs isn't an excuse to advocate for something like that. Imagine if was the other way around, I have to do a skillcheck like DS and from a distance you get downed instantly,  even if full health, skipping one health state like DS give you one more. Would it call fair cuz there is 4 survivors who can help you out and just on killer?
  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671
    edited December 2018

    @G4rr3tt said:
    You main spirit, with more than 2400 hours, and you are complaining about ds? you played as killer before 2.1.0 and you still think it's unbalanced? k im done, sorry for bothering lol..

    You should use this moment as a chance to reflect on your opinions and that maybe if someone with that much more experience than me thinks that then maybe I could be wrong. As others have said, thinking DS is broken isn't something debatable, even the devs themselves have agreed it's broken which is why they are changing it and no, that's not just with swf. Also you really should play killer at rank 1 and you would understand more what we are talking about. Seeing this from just a perspective of playing survivor doesn't give you a real viewpoint of balance.

  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @ToppingPanic said:
    Bruh every killer runs NOED, Ruin and BBQ, and you're trying to nerf the only way survivors fight back -_-

    I never run Ruin except when I was doing the adept Hag, Noed only used same and to take Spirit to rank 1 off and on. BBQ is mainly for points but also teh aura reading if i'm paying attention.

    DS does need an adjustment of some kind and realistically if you learn to play without it you'll be a much better player.

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    @Malakir

    Anyway you keep saying a free escape I balanced and advocate for that even when the devs themselves felt bad after seeing how abusable that perk is

    Actually yeah, legit played games today where i dont even run crutch perks, first thing that happened, i got tunneled to death and off hook, i couldnt even play at all, and why was that? i spawned next to a hex ruin, started cleansing it, so the killer tunneled me and even camped so i wouldnt cleanse it, and that is a "valid" strategy on every killer main eyes, yet if it happened to you as survivor and u stand legit no chance, because you dont expect to get farmed and tunneled you would be just as tired of that bs like me and many other survivors who run ds and adrenaline for those 2 reasons.

    @Blueberry

    True i should give a try to rank 1 killer, at least on my pov, i still see more 4/4 matches where the killer gets every kill on rank 1, than survivors escaping honestly, i played as killer main before 2.1.0 and it was damn hard, best rank i got was 12 and i didnt even know how to play, right now, running perkless on some killers for dailies, i got up to rank 7 just doing dailies, if u can easly get to that and probably even more, id say the game is most likely balanced, sure rank 1 might be harder, but you have almost 16 ranks, from 20 to 6 or 7, which will be beyond easy... Rank 1 is meant to be hard for both sides, id say balanced is if the killer can get a good amount of points and 2-3 kills. but getting 4/4 every single game as you guys want, if that day ever happens ill just uninstall the game, there will be no point playing a class called SURVIVOR if you will never SURVIVE...

  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799

    @G4rr3tt said:
    @Malakir

    Anyway you keep saying a free escape I balanced and advocate for that even when the devs themselves felt bad after seeing how abusable that perk is

    Actually yeah, legit played games today where i dont even run crutch perks, first thing that happened, i got tunneled to death and off hook, i couldnt even play at all, and why was that? i spawned next to a hex ruin, started cleansing it, so the killer tunneled me and even camped so i wouldnt cleanse it, and that is a "valid" strategy on every killer main eyes, yet if it happened to you as survivor and u stand legit no chance, because you dont expect to get farmed and tunneled you would be just as tired of that bs like me and many other survivors who run ds and adrenaline for those 2 reasons.

    @Blueberry

    True i should give a try to rank 1 killer, at least on my pov, i still see more 4/4 matches where the killer gets every kill on rank 1, than survivors escaping honestly, i played as killer main before 2.1.0 and it was damn hard, best rank i got was 12 and i didnt even know how to play, right now, running perkless on some killers for dailies, i got up to rank 7 just doing dailies, if u can easly get to that and probably even more, id say the game is most likely balanced, sure rank 1 might be harder, but you have almost 16 ranks, from 20 to 6 or 7, which will be beyond easy... Rank 1 is meant to be hard for both sides, id say balanced is if the killer can get a good amount of points and 2-3 kills. but getting 4/4 every single game as you guys want, if that day ever happens ill just uninstall the game, there will be no point playing a class called SURVIVOR if you will never SURVIVE...

    Okay so farmed right... if your team won't do gens but try to unhook you right after and actually farming you its killer fault? I blame the survivor not the killer for doing his job. Whenever I get farmed I actually wanna duck that guy up even giving tips to the killer where he is if I can, its his fault

    I always asked to an emote or something, a way to interrupt unhooking, apparently was introduced and obviously survivors abused that so.. I know how you could get pissed about it but honestly I get pissed towards my ducking mate that just wanna stack his "we are gonna farm forever". One of the reasons why I sell out my mates whenever I can to save myself and attempt unhooks only if I'm 120% sure the killer isn't around

    So yeah its a legit strategy for a killer like its a legit strategy keep working on a 80%gen after the killer kicked it. So what? Its rude keep working on a gen that the killer just kicked!

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    edited December 2018
    G4rr3tt said:

    Again, it's broken and unbalanced when facing swf.. it always comes to swf, i always played and will play alone, and will have to eat all the garbage nerfs because of swf toxicity, great BALANCE IDEAS

    DS? Lol no you can easily get 4 solo survivors who all carry it. It has nothing to do with SWF.

    Oh and as for you getting camped for trying to cleanse ruin...

    Don't get me wrong, that sucks. It's never fun. Some advice going forward though, don't cleanse a totem if you spawn on it. 9 times out of 10 the killer will come running across the map to check on their totem and make sure a survivor didn't spawn on it. Much like gens you're better off waiting until they've done their patrol before you start cleansing it.

    And you gotta admit it's not very fair to the killer to have survivors spawn on your totem. That's why they get salty. Its nobodys fault but the developers for having totems next to survivor spawns.
  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @The_Crusader said:
    G4rr3tt said:

    Again, it's broken and unbalanced when facing swf.. it always comes to swf, i always played and will play alone, and will have to eat all the garbage nerfs because of swf toxicity, great BALANCE IDEAS

    DS? Lol no you can easily get 4 solo survivors who all carry it. It has nothing to do with SWF.

    Oh and as for you getting camped for trying to cleanse ruin...

    Don't get me wrong, that sucks. It's never fun. Some advice going forward though, don't cleanse a totem if you spawn on it. 9 times out of 10 the killer will come running across the map to check on their totem and make sure a survivor didn't spawn on it. Much like gens you're better off waiting until they've done their patrol before you start cleansing it.

    And you gotta admit it's not very fair to the killer to have survivors spawn on your totem. That's why they get salty. Its nobodys fault but the developers for having totems next to survivor spawns.

    Yeah I literally have spawned looking at and within 2 steps of a Hex totem before including 2 nights ago and I've had times where it's a Billy and as I take 2 steps they're already at that location.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    @G4rr3tt said:
    @Malakir

    Anyway you keep saying a free escape I balanced and advocate for that even when the devs themselves felt bad after seeing how abusable that perk is

    Actually yeah, legit played games today where i dont even run crutch perks, first thing that happened, i got tunneled to death and off hook, i couldnt even play at all, and why was that? i spawned next to a hex ruin, started cleansing it, so the killer tunneled me and even camped so i wouldnt cleanse it, and that is a "valid" strategy on every killer main eyes, yet if it happened to you as survivor and u stand legit no chance, because you dont expect to get farmed and tunneled you would be just as tired of that bs like me and many other survivors who run ds and adrenaline for those 2 reasons.

    @Blueberry

    True i should give a try to rank 1 killer, at least on my pov, i still see more 4/4 matches where the killer gets every kill on rank 1, than survivors escaping honestly, i played as killer main before 2.1.0 and it was damn hard, best rank i got was 12 and i didnt even know how to play, right now, running perkless on some killers for dailies, i got up to rank 7 just doing dailies, if u can easly get to that and probably even more, id say the game is most likely balanced, sure rank 1 might be harder, but you have almost 16 ranks, from 20 to 6 or 7, which will be beyond easy... Rank 1 is meant to be hard for both sides, id say balanced is if the killer can get a good amount of points and 2-3 kills. but getting 4/4 every single game as you guys want, if that day ever happens ill just uninstall the game, there will be no point playing a class called SURVIVOR if you will never SURVIVE...

    Rank 7 is very different from playing rank 1. Basing this off other ranks isn't giving accurate information. A low rank idiot will use DS and still go down, a rank 1 is reaching a pallet or window in time. Basing a decision on whether something is too good or not is accurately read by someone using it correctly and to it's full potential, not from a survivor just playing stupid (ie lower ranks). Freddy absolutely destroys lower ranks, does this mean he is strong? No, they just play dumb at low ranks. That's my point. No one here has ever said "getting 4/4 every single game as you guys want" can we let this die already? This isn't what any of us are asking for whatsoever.

  • G4rr3tt
    G4rr3tt Member Posts: 43

    This isnt what im asking for either, but you make legit no sense, saying that killer is harder to play and 1 perk can break a whole game, when it's way easier to get high rank as killer than survivor, and even at high ranks, i still see survivors use ds and go down INSTANTLY, i would even record it and make a whole clip showing how 90% of survivors who ds get insta down, myself included sometimes thanks to enduring and being far away from pallets or windows, the game doesnt have x2 million pallets like before, i was chase by a wraith who never chased me in a whole game, first time he chases me, i use 1 pallet in all a game, spirit fury comes up, 1 hit 1 shot noed, facecamped till i die, and that is fair on most of your eyes.. but cleansing at totem is not cus it's unfair towards the killer.. At this point playing survivor is toxic and unfair, if you are gonna complain at every little thing a survivor does (cleansing a totem, dropping pallets, looping aka trying to survive, using ds to not get moried or camped or give it more time) dont even bother playing killer, and learn from killers like truetalent, he did complain about ds but he's not bitching on the forums to please nerf it, and we can even see on his videos he runs the most random perks ever and still gets 4k at rank 1, even against swf, if he can do it, any of you can, if he did it when killer was weak, even more you can now, this is all pretty much a killer baby cry towards 1 perk that only 10% of survivors know how to really use good, again while most of them use it and miss or use it and go down instantly.