Dredge can be too oppressive
I have versed two Dredge killers very recently that used Lery’s map offering and Devour Hope. This is not fair and balanced. Finding totems on this map is a nightmare, especially when a killer is bloated with several abilities.
You can’t see a thing on this map and with a high mobility killer, no cooldown to traversing the map, anti-loop, how does BHVR think survivors are supposed to win? Where is the “fairness”?
Haddie has 3 useless perks and can’t deal with the Dredge.
Devour Hope needs a nerf, Dredge needs a nerf, and certain maps need to be fixed so it is at least possible to see when his third power is activated. When you can’t see a vault that is only 5 meters in front of you, that is a serious problem with game balance. We can easily make the game scary without completely making the game unfun and unwinnable for one side.
It is NOT fun to verse. Matches should have reasonable chances of winning for both sides and the Dredge with certain perks and map offerings is not it.
Disclaimer: I have already played as the Dredge and he is very easy to use.
Comments
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"Haddie has 3 useless perks and can’t deal with the Dredge."
Hahahha. Vote up!
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As Matthieu Cote says play something else if you're not having fun.
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I was waiting for this. Thanks
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Devour Hope does not need a nerf. It's one of the most balanced hex perks in the game actually
Dredge does not need a nerf.
His map traversal and anti-loop does have a cooldown, for somebody who claims they played the killer you're really ignoring that fact. Just because it's not a ten minute cooldown doesn't mean it's not there
As for nightfall, not only should you be paying attention to your environment anyway but you literally get a warning when it's about to happen so if you're in a bad spot when it happens that's on you
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I recommend Valorant. Especially recruiting Neon!
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1-shot perks shouldn't exist. He is oppressive enough without that.
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Wow this is peak entitlement.
Have you tried bringing, I dunno, Small Game? The anti-totem perk?
Just because you or your team fail to find a totem doesn't mean the Killer is broken or overpowered. Devour Hope is strong for a reason, it's a Hex.
Dredge is one of the most well balanced killers to ever get added to the game, which is surprising. Just because you don't play killer and your games are easy, doesn't mean the killer doesn't have a skill ceiling.
Edit: Also imagine complaining about killer using map offerings when they're abused by survivors 5x more, lmao.
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Mario Kart is a good one or Mario Sunshine
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Use detective's hunch if you are not able to find totems... is that hard? After few hundred of games you won't need it.
I guess complaining is easier.
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You're joking right? 90%of the time you get spawned right next to the totem. Also the Dredge has no way to protect their totems IF they have any. If you break the totem the effect goes away. That's how hexes have always been. Are you seriously still so green you haven't figured that out?
Post edited by Rizzo on4 -
replace lichen with a pumpkin and always carry one portal on yourself.
This way, you can ALWAYS defend your hex totem regardless of where you are standing, as long as you are quick to place the portal & teleport.
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to be fair, Inner Focus literally only works well when facing Dredge. The rest of her perks dont really do much at all.
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Than Survivor also abuse The Game Map offerings and Dead Hard vor unfair Advantage
And Dead Hard is Really unfair
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I agree that Dredge is kinda OP, but in what world does Devour need a nerf? I say this as a survivor main: it rewards good play. It forces killers to leave hooks, and survivors get a notification that it's active long before it can do major damage. It takes five hooks to reach tier 5, and at tier 3 (insta-downs) survivors get the 'cursed' notification. Plus, the hex totem will be active from the first hook so many survivors will find it before it even activates.
If you really struggle with finding totems and you're finding a lot of killers are brining Hex perk, there's plenty of good perks to counter it: Detective's Hunch, Counterforce, and Small Game. Work one of these into your build if it's that much of a problem.
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Dead Hard is no comparison to 1-shot perks. It doesn't feel good to get instantly downed, especially with no warning.
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I have yet to play one of the dredge with Lerys offering rounds but I can imagine it’s annoying af. And I agree some killers shouldn’t have 1 hit abilities like nurse.
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I say this as a survivor main: I don't think the killer 'feels good' when they've been looped and finally catch up to the survivor but their hit gets completely mitigated by DH.
The insta-down is part of many killers' powers (Oni, Ghostface, Myers, Hillbilly, etc), without it, pretty much all killers would be M1 which would render most of them useless. The only insta-down mechanic I don't agree with is NOED, but that's a whole other conversation.
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Allow me to bring some counterpoints:
~The Dredge's Nightfall can be countered by rememorizing the locations of loops, and Nightfall's range isnt as short as you make it out to be, I have literally no issue looping the Dredge at all.
~The Dredge's Teleport (both to lockers and his remnant) have a cooldown, you claim to have played as the Dredge yet you cant even pay attention to the cooldown to his power. On top of that you can use locks to hinder his chase abilities with cutting off areas by locking lockers, which creates a lot of distance. His remnant is completely countered by holding W since he moves slower when charging his teleport.
~Haddie's perks arent useless, just because they arent meta doesnt make them bad, they have their uses rather you see it or not.
~Hex: Devourer Hope is countered by information perks such as Small Game, or Detectives Hunch. Hell, even remember totem locations helps which isnt hard when you play the game long enough. "But I shouldnt have to dedicate a single perk slot to counter 1 killer perk" is a common argument I see against this, but it's 16 total survivor perks VS 4 total killer perks, your team has plenty of room to spare for 1 single anti-totem perk.
~Both sides can bring builds that increase their chances of winning, which mind that, still have counterplay. survivors have 4 chances to throw map offerings in comparison to the 1 killers have, and even then survivors can completely trump offerings such as Sacrificial Wards. Remember when survivors could bring an RPD offering and use Boil Over in RPD's Library and waste enough time to get all gens done and still not bleed out? That was fixed (or at least an attempt of fixing it was put in place) because it was mathematically impossible for the killer to win through the amount of stall survivors were able to generator. However a killer bringing a map offering with Hex: Devourer Hope still has lots of room for counterplay from either side, and isnt a guaranteed win for the killer.
I play both sides, and have spent most of my time VSing the Dredge. Ive faced the exact build youve faced and still cleansed Hex: Devourer Hope without any issue, so I know what Im talking about it. Might I suggest just learning to adapt to the new killer and playstyles that come from it, you might not like it, but sometimes you just got to deal with it.
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Nightfall actually needs bit of nerf it's too dark but dredge antiloop could be buffed that dredge can move bit faster while holding the regmant.
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Isn't this better?: (skip to 3:10 for the Hag build)
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Have you tried to bring maps or perks like small game to find totems? I think you may need them instead of the same Dead Hard, Decisive, Borrowed time and Iron will :)
There are perks to counter everything you said, why not give them a try and explore new ways to play the game :D
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No cooldown on his teleport? Have you ever even played with Dredge? He has a 12 second cooldown.
I can see why Nightfall might need a bit of toning down, but in general he is not op, he is well balanced. Then again, to you, almost every killer seems to be op.
Devour Hope has always been good on a map like Lery's, though it still depends on the totem spawn. It's also not op, and it's effectiveness is not exclusive to Dredge.
You can also see further than 5 meters during Nightfall. Like what even is this post? You know, you might have very unpopular opinions, but at least some people would maybe take you a bit more serious if you wouldn't exaggerate to such a ridiculous degree.
Dredge is actually really well balanced. He needs a few tweaks, though nothing that would impact him a lot. He might need some more, small nerfs, but only in the future most likely. His map pressure is great, something killers need, and his anti-loop is decently strong, again something killers need. This is actually the best way to make a killer powerful. Good map pressure means more interaction with all the survivors, and his anti-loop not being too strong means survivors can have enough impact during a chase.
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You play Nurse yet complain about every other killer in the game
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Like Civilization!
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It occurs more frequently and more easily for health states to be bypassed. As in the case for the Dredge, he put the game in his pocket because he had a single perk: Devour Hope.
Survivor perks have never and will never have that kind of impact, especially a perk that has a small dash that requires perfect timing to pull off.
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Unfortunately, that icon shows up after you been insta-downed on the floor. No prior warning.
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Sluzzy, I agree Dredge needs a nerf.. but Devour Hope? Don’t we we want more perks like it, that encourage not camping and tunneling? It won’t even activate if the killer stays too close to a hooked survivor, and you won’t get enough tokens if you keep going for the same survivor. It needs a little bit more early game protection, I would say. And that’s it.
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Devour Hope came out when survivors were way more able to finish gens. Twice as many pallets, killers didn't have massive slowdown perks, protection totems, and tracking perks. It was very common to get the gens done when Hag came out, now it basically never happens unless the killer is extremely bad.
Devour Hope doesn't make sense now when killers are way overpowered and seeing 5 gens get done is like winning the lottery. On Dredge, it basically breaks the game because he knows everything, can get to everywhere instantly, has anti-loop and prevent survivors from even seeing the map. It's too much.
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You're straight up wrong Sluzzy and let me tell you why
You want to know what two survivor perks can turn a win for the killer into a loss?
Unbreakable or Adrenaline. Or both at the same time
If the killer has 3 people slugged and is chasing the last dude, if that last dude somehow lasts long enough for one of them to get up and pick up everyone else then the match is basically over for the killer if it's late enough in the game.
Alternatively
If the killer somehow gets 3 people slugged and the last dude pops the last gen, if all of them have adrenaline that's three health states and three seperate chases all completely voided all because of 1 perk.
And if both are combined: 1 person gets up with UB, heals the other two up and then the final gen heals them all to healthy. That's SIX health states healed in an instant, Sluzzy.
If you really want to die on the hill of 'Devour Hope OP' (Which it isn't, not only is it a hex perk it's a hex perk the killer has to WORK for) then you should also be against survivor perks that give you free health states just for bringing the perk.
So yeah, survivor perks DO have that same impact.
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The Long Dark is quite good, also made in Canada.
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Two things;
Adrenaline is never used anymore because gens don't get completed.
You shouldn't be tryharding by slugging everyone for an ez win. It is not fun and there shouldn't be a required perk to deal with slugging when killers don't need a perk for that.
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1) The data posted by BHVR about the most used perks in the game prove you are completely wrong. Adrenaline is in the top 12 most used perks in the game according to the official data.
2) Literally a non argument because it has nothing to do with the fact Unbreakable is essentially a free health state if you're left on the ground.
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- That doesn't mean it is a good perk. I still practically never see it used.
- It is a killer choice, you are taking a risk by leaving them on the floor. Unbreakable is a bandaid fix for that, survivor shouldn't need a perk to get up.
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I think Devour Hope is fine. It's scary as hell when it pops, but it can be countered, and it's quite a gamble for a Killer to bring it.
Playing as a Solo survivor against Dredge for the first time this weekend and I have to say, the Nightfall is way too dark. I play on console (which is darker on every map than PC) and I can barely see a damn thing during Nightfall. To have to deal with that for a full minute is a bit too much imo. My rando team mates were d/c'ing or suiciding on the hook. They have to make it at least playable. There's a middle ground between what we saw on the PTB and almost complete darkness like now.
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1) Yes Sluzzy I understand you never see it used but just because you never see it, doesn't mean that's objectively how it is for the rest of us. There might be a survivor out there who's never seen a Twins before, does that mean they are a bad killer as well?
It is a good perk, it does so much for you.
2) If killers had it so easy Sluzzy they would never need to slug anyone, they could just 3 hook everyone every game but we both know that's not the case and killers use slugging as a shortcut because giving all 4 survivors multiple chases and hooks each is only possible if the survivors are not playing well.
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Is it the visibility range that is too narrow in your opinion? Or is it that you can't even properly see within the visibility range because the lighting is too dark?
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Dredge knows everything? Lmao what even does that mean? He also can't get everywhere instantly, I know you claim that you have played with Dredge but it doesn't seem that way.
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Bit of both. I can only see like, an arm's length in front of my survivor, and what little is visible is very dark. Not a big deal if I'm on a generator but in a chase I constantly bump into objects, can't see a vault unless I'm right on top of it etc. It's way more frustrating than "scary".
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Have you compared that to videos on youtube? For me, you can see what feels like 12 to 16 meters far. More 12 probably. It's not far, and it makes finding pallet loops in chases more difficult, but it's definitely manageable and I personally love it, and I definitely don't buno into objects when running.
But an "arm's length" certainly doesn't sound like 12 to 16 meters, so I find that quite weird. It sounds like part of what should be visible is too dark because the lighting isn't bright enough. I definitely agree that the devs should look into that.
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What exactly would you nerf about Dredge?
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He still can't do anything to a survivor on the game map. He bows to the all mighty pallet like survivors want right?
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I have had a few bad matches against the dredge, but he's still a fun killer to play against. I haven't went against him on Lery's yet so I can't say how I feel about a match on that map. I did get the dredge on Midwich which was horrifying especially during nightfall. I loved every second of it. Let me tell ya that having the dredge burst out of a locker in front of you on Midwich will give you one hell of a jump scare. I may just be focusing more on the fact he's fun to play against rather than the advantages or disadvantages of any given match or map. Right now I think people are still figuring out how to play against this killer while the killer players are trying different builds to counter what they're seeing survivors do against them. I'm worried there will be a sudden nerf to the things that make this killer fun to play against, which just so happens to be the 2 things I find the most fun about him from the survivor perspective which is the locker teleport and nightfall.
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The teleport is overpowered. I would make locked lockers take triple as long as they do now for him to escape them. The cool down should also be longer by base (maybe 25 seconds per teleport usage, which would also make it a more meaningful decision whether or not you use up to all three charges). Certain lockers should never be traversable (shack if it has basement, lockers in and near other basement spawns, and any immediately next to exit gates). Would also consider him only being able to traverse lockers by first going near one, so it can’t be spammed on demand like it can now.
And for how powerful Nightfall is, I think it would be more fair if survivors were given a visual indicator (like Freddy or Pinhead) of how long before it starts.
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I complained about devour hope in the past before but I will say the one good thing about it is it does discourage the killer from doing the things that survivors complain about the most in this game, at least up until it gets to the exposed power. Makes me wonder if I should actually wait awhile before cleansing those hex totems I find early in the match.
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Devour Hope is lit from the start of the match. Best thing to do is cleanse lit totems and ignore dull ones until five gens and then hide right when the fifth gen pops to see if the killer has NOED and go back and look for it.
Edit*
I didn't properly understand your post until after I posted. If the killer doesn't have undying, ruin or huntress' lullaby, I'd wait to cleanse, just make sure to remember where the lit totem is.
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Nah they are so uber pro that they can see DBD only through the eyes of a several thousand hours nurse/blight on one side and a noob survivor on the other.
People checked online stats and it came up that sluzzy has 40k+ blink hits on nurse and 20k+ rush hits on blight.
They are a killer main and complain about everything when they play solo survivor or noob swf.
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Drage is very similar to Freddy, he has a universal set in the form of teleport,
anti-loop and passive deceleration. Playing for Drage also does not require complex mechanical skills.
I don't think I need to remind you that no one loved Freddy before Nerf, although Drage is much stronger than Freddy.
Drage also resembles Wraith before Nerf, a very annoying character that does not require any skills from the player, but
with strong addons, mobility and an insanely long attack. It was not possible to escape from him and avoid being hit.
It is necessary to nerf Drage as soon as possible, since playing against him
is the same miserable experience as against Freddy and Wraith combined!
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Same. This is actually my only real issue with Dredge. I'm on Switch, the worst of the lot, and Nightfall is pretty much unplayable. I like the concept absolutely, the ability to slow the game down for the killer, but to be not able to play for a full minute sucks. I've watched streamers play and they can see far more than I can in Nightfall. It's like night and day in comparison lol
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Imagine complaining about one of the most fair killers in the game kek.
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So 9 seconds to break a lock on a locker? And 25 second cooldown. Plus those other nerfs.
He'd be the worst killer ever created. Like there are a few parts that I think could maybe need some very small nerfs. Like Bloodlust canceling as soon as he starts charging his power. But this?
9 seconds to break out of a locker? At that point the survivor is on the other side of the map lmao. And then 25 seconds cooldown after teleporting? On an ability that is used for both map mobility and chase?
This might be the most ridiculous nerf suggestion I have ever read. Out of curiousity, what killers do you consider balanced, and which overpowered?
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