“Ds should deactivate in the endgame”
Can someone explain to me why the park should deactivate in the endgame? I have seen so many people suggest that. I don’t really understand it tbh. I think the perk is fine the way it is.
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The reasoning is that if someone is unhooked during EGC and has DS, it’s basically a guaranteed escape even if they’re downed. If you pick them up, they hit DS and escape. If you don’t pick them up, they either crawl out or are healed. Killers basically have no options.
To use survivor mains’ favorite complaint: “there’s no counterplay.”
edit: to be clear, I don’t necessarily agree with this, but that is the reasoning.
Post edited by H2H on47 -
I personally think no perk should have an explicit endgame collapse deactivates the perk unless of course if it's a generator perk which technically deactivates
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I agree with this
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I can see your point of view but wouldn’t it also be unfair to the survivor that gets off the hook and the killer just downs him and picks up immediately and gets hooked again?
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Because killers think they’re entitled to a kill just because it’s EGC.
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Because it's hard to camp and get easy downs with NOED. What you suggest? Put some effort and play skillfuly during the match? Don't be ridiculous! Also all pallets, windows and second chances perks (probably it's about all perks) should... no, MUST be removed.
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This is one hot take lmao
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I would argue no because now that there are no more gens to be done, the remaining Survivors can very much gang up to try and rescue+protect that one Survivor. Obviously this is easier said than done against some Killers (coughcoughBubbacough), but the dynamics of the current trial have now changed such that Survivors are now encouraged to band together instead of split up.
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I'd argue DS is healthy as is, but if we want to make further changes then having it deactivate in the endgame is the nerf I'd give to make it an anti tunnel perk (along with making it useable on both health states and there is no timer. It just deactivates when you do any listed criteria and doesn't activate after all 5 gens are done). It helps to alleviate the frustration of a lose-lose situation arising for the killer and also buffs DS vs early-game because its useable twice.
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You would need to compensate for it being disabled in the endgame. Your buff idea is interesting
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De-activate after touching a gate would be nice as it's literally part of them doing their objective.
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I’m a survivor main and agree it’s bologna. It’s pretty widely understood that after the fifth gen pops, the killer’s ability and reasons to patrol the map become minimal. You can’t expect them to go for healthy and/or different survivors in this situation.
I would gladly trade DS deactivating after fifth gen pop, for it losing the skill check; working for both hook states; and disabling killer powers for five seconds after they recover from the stun (and maybe throw in Parental Guidance’s effects too). Same goes for BT: deactivate end game for a longer activation duration before the fifth gen pops. Survivors would need to rely on pure base game altruism and grit to a save a teammate from what seems to be certain death.
They would function as much better anti-tunnel perks than what we have now, without granting a basic free escape in the end game ‘because perk’.
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This I 100% agree on.
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Killer who tunnels, will tunnel through DS. If survivor has DS, good, now they dont have it, and tunnel to death. If survivor doesnt have DS, good, now killer tunnels them to death
Killer who play fair often have survivor save their DS later. And they can use it in End game.
I had a 5 hooks that spread to all 4 survivors (because I dont tunnel) before the last Gen done. And I ate 3 DS in end game. DS currently punish fair play killers more than tunnelers.
DS should deactivate when Gate are powered, but buff the stun up to 7sec or something.
Post edited by C3Tooth on14 -
Because Killers always say that the game is not over when 5 Gens are done, but for some reason when it comes to DS, it should be deactivated - but the game is not over, why should it be deactivated? The Killer can still tunnel in the Endgame. And it is not really the Survivors fault if the Killer has no other option in Endgame.
IF the Devs ever nerf DS further, they should really, really buff the Anti-Tunneling ability of the Perk. To make it really impactful so that a Killer really does not want to go after a freshly unhooked Survivor at all. Because currently, DS is a Joke, especially against the strongest Killers. A Blight or Nurse just has a good laugh and downs you a few seconds later.
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Don't know if thats happening if it was one of the listed readjust perks. Of course they confirmed base kit changes to though. So maybe part of it will see some base kit light.
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That’s a pretty good point lmao.
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ds feels bad to eat in the end game but to think it should deactivate in end game is kinda delusional. i have no issues noed smacking people who've never been hooked, so its only really fair for survivors to have a way to fight back. touching a gate not deactivating DS is also fine imo.
in regards to the end game, i really do think gates should have 25/50/75% progress threshold. 99ing gates is a tad bit too convenient in its current form, i believe this would make endgame a tad bit more unsafe. I think it would make for an excellent buff for Wake Up!
DS should lose the skill check as well. its out dated, get rid of it already. if anything it just punishes potato hardware.
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I don’t get it too. When I’m playing killer, I always go for the unhooker and try to catch them. If multiple survivors manage to do all gens and open the gate I can accept my loss.
The last thing I would do is go to the forums and cry about DS not deactivating in EGC or by touching the gate.
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Yes, but DS doesn't need any buffs to compensate.
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Honestly I've been camped and tunneled through BT and DS at 4-5 gens way more than I've ever got a DS escape. How much can a perk be nerfed? lol
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If I’m playing pyramid head I can try and go for both but yeah I know what you mean. The gates regressing i wouldn’t mind either
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Hmm, now there’s a thought. EGC begins and ALL players have ALL perks/items/add-ons deactivated. All vanilla. All basekit. Obviously this would require a rework of the late game perks, but it would force everyone to finish the match relying on nothing but raw skill.
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Nothing wrong with in a vaccum, however when you consider that most survivor players hate tunneling and have been asking BHVR for solutions you very quickly run into problems. As an experiment I challenge you to play where you spread hook states evenly, this means you cannot kill a survivor until ALL survivor are on death hook. I promise you you will very quickly discover two things, DS/BT/Body block world effectively defangs the killer entirely during EGC, the only 'counter' to the above is to limit the total # of survivors in play which loops us back around to "How should killers and survivors expect the game to play throughout the trial?" Should survivors expect to get eliminated out of the game quickly? Should hook states be more of a team wide resource? Does "fairness" even matter? I would argue it does based on how many complaints there are on tunneling but I 100% guarantee you if BHVR fixes that aspect of the game but does not touch EGC you will see a huge amount of complaints around DS + BT + Bodyblocking during EGC.
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DS is pretty much fine as is, although I'd prefer they adjusted to to be more conditional deactivation based rather than a timer.
ie. there is no timer but now it deactivates upon any of the current conditions or when another survivor is unhooked.
Oh and add exit gate to deactivation conditions so you can't use it to open gates while immune to reprecussions.
This would mean its better at anti tunnel and also easier to track active DS since there can only be one active at a time (last person who came off hook)
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I mean the game is basically over, how can you force a real player to not make their own choice? If they choose to tunnel they can, who gonna stop them? You gonna travel to their home and tell them they should only play what you find fun only for you? Ds is broken egc and you can’t even think of a good excuse besides whataboutism.
I know these words are probably nightmare for you survivor mains but ds is literally free escape near a open gate no matter what input killer can do. Y’all complain about afk pig getting 1 kill 1/1000 games meanwhile 4 man swf teabag pig at the gate while they all ds stun her back to back because killer op and end game collapse is killer sided 🤓
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Not really.
It's because "fair" playing killer that 100% don't camp, tunnel or slug and spread the hooks evenly for max survivor fun time can basically open the gates themselves and go afk for 3 minutes since the combination of multiple second chance perks on nearly all survivor plus them bodyblocking for each other (safely due to their own second chance perks, even on deathhook) make trying to get even 1 kill at that point a useless endeavor.
Couple this with other survivor favorites like no nurse/blight and no noed. Because that's the way i played for the last 2 years and you can imagine how much "respect" i got for playing like most survivor want.
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[Insert 'but they played the trial with three perks!] NOED argument here]
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DS is fine as it is. If a player don't want to miss a kill because of DS, he only has to eat it strategically. (Or to tunnel, that works too.)
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It isn't 100% fine. It does not deactivate on the gate panel.... Which forces the killer to slug you just like with totems and gens. That is a massive flaw. What's weird is no one ever points that out.
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IMO, ds should deactivate if you're doing the gate for more than 2 seconds, but it also should activate twice during the match, after both hook stages so it actually is an anti tunnel perk.
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Soo...no nerf at all and a massive buff for DS is your idea?
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This thread is hilarious. How some people try to argue, that a perk that exists solely to prevent tunneling, is totally fair in a situation, where the killer didn´t tunnel during the whole match, but gets punished by it at the endgame.
So the killer plays accordingly to the survivor rule book but gets shafted for doing so. *claps slowly*
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It could be optimised a bit, yes.
I've been so used to the previous, busted, version that this one feels like a breeze in comparison.
It may also be because I have no problem tunneling survivors out of the match when it feels necessary (almost always : most of the teams I verse are pushing through generators while pissing blood and ignore teammates hanging on a hook).
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Thats the most imbalanced thing i´ve ever heard of. Especially considering how gates usually get 99th.
Implementing this would result in a baseline 0k killrate across the board.
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Ds is fine as it is but they should really make it so it deactivates if you even tap a 99ed gate
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The problem with that experiment is you're taking it to the extreme. No rational survivor expects that. They just want a chance to reset before being chased again. If I'm hook 1, 4, and 6 I'm not going to feel I was tunneled. I had a chance to reset and happened to be found more than the others.
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I mean the survivors did
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That’s a pretty large buff. You would need to nerf it in One aspect for me to agree that should activate twice in a match
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It doesn’t matter how “nice” or however you played during the match it doesn’t mean DS should be disabled at endgame.
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Then i hope you don't complain about people that don't play "nice" because this is just another incentive not to.
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If you're getting hit with DS a lot in the endgame, I guess you should just tunnel more before the gens are done to remove DS from the game at an earlier time.
As an added bonus, after you tunnel someone out of the game, gens go slower, totems last longer, your NOED is stronger endgame with less people to find it, etc.
DS in the endgame has very easy counterplay - make sure it is not in play during the endgame.
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Because DS is far and away at its strongest at that point in the game (while still being usable at most other points in the game). At that point in the game, it is no longer about standing still at certain points of the map for large chunks of time while evading the Killer. It is now about reaching a certain position on the map that ensures your escape. And in far more circumstances than not, DS all but ensures that because most Killers have VERY few options to answer the perk (one of the few reliable ones that exist across the board is the mori offering, which is being retired soon). They can't leave them because that person will escape, they can't re-hook them because that person can break free and still escape, and they can't slug them because that person can still crawl and escape. Counterplay that exists when gens still need to be done no longer exists at that point in the game. On the flip side, one of the big downsides for DS (can't do gens without it turning off) is gone because there are no more gens. DS gets stronger at that point while playing around it gets much worse.
No, they didn't. The fourth perk was an insurance that they choose to hold onto until they needed to use it. Hope is Survivors playing with three perks. Adrenaline is Survivors playing with three perks. Holding DS until the endgame is them playing with four perks because nothing is stopping them from using it before then endgame if they gain the ability to.
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I literally stated the nerf in the first phrase........
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Oh no, killers cant tunnel after 2 hook stages now, how will they survive???
DS doesnt need a nerf
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Why 2 seconds? I imagine you specifically picked some number instead of just deactivate on tap so a survivor opening a 99%'d gate will not lose their DS...which is exactly one of the EGC scenarios people are complaining about.
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People arent only complaining about that, theyre complaining about everything, that's what they do on these forums.
Killers shouldnt get a free kill from camping just because its end game.
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How does that nerf stop someone from using DS in the endgame the same way they currently do? The person using DS as a guaranteed escape at that point is unlikely to be the person trying to open the gate. They'll just run to the gate while someone else taps it for the last 1%.
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But survivors get a free, uncounterable escape because of a perk just because it’s end game? Outside of some killers, even end game camping can be countered. End game DS has no counterplay.
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"nerf" oh man...
So a survivor just tapping the gate button until its open doesn´t lose the DS and to compensate this heavy nerf, DS should work twice.
Totally not OP
/s
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