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Solution to gen speed and tunneling in one idea.
All survivors are alive. A gen takes somewhere between 100-120 seconds to complete solo. Increased from the 80.
Now listen. For each survivor that dies to the entity survivors get a big speed increase on the gens. Somewhere between 35-50% perhaps.
What this does is allow the killer to go for multiple chases in the beginning of the game without losing 3 gens in the first chase. It punishes the killer hard for tunneling someone out of the game to as the 3 survivors left get a big speed increase on the gens. It also allows the survivors to still have a chance when it's a 3 v 1. It gets rid of lots of landslide/stomp potential on both sides.
Of course I'm not 100% sure on the numbers of the speed buff and debuff at the gens but something like this would be great I feel. Getting a 4 man escape would probably be very difficult but not impossibe.
Something like this would be implemented with the perk reworks. So gen slow down perks reworked so the killer can't make it like a literal eternity to finish a gen because they brought pop, pain res, Ruin and so forth. We assume those perks will be reworked.
Gen speed is a big problem, tunneling is a big problem. Do something that helps with both in one base game change. I understand lots of people don't like the idea of making gens take longer something has to be done about it. To many games end in 5-7 minutes because the killer has a first chase that lasts a little to long.
Comments
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This a good idea, but it would need a change in the reaward system of survs. Nobody would unhook anymore. Because rewards are for escaping, not helping. If teamplay would be encouraged more, it could probably work.
Post edited by Metronix on9 -
Nah I’d rather have survivors getting tunneled tbh. The biggest problem I have in solo q is survivors making stupid decisions. There’s no way to change peoples brains.
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I have this one.
Gates require an A number of Gen complete to powered
A = number of Survivors still alive +2
Which mean, 4 survivors alive requires 6 Gen complete to power Gates. If 1 survivor die at 5 Gen done, Gates powered instantly without the 6th Gen completed. This may solve both Gen rush & tunneling.
2 survivors alive requires only 4 Gen. This may solve the problem where there are 2-3 Gen left and 2 survivors, make its impossible for survivors to make any comeback. Cause 2 survivors hide for 30min.
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Similar to something I suggested yesterday:
The problem is the snowball effect. Whichever side gets the lead on their objective, whether it's hooks or gens, can then apply more pressure, more hooks and gens, much easier.
For survivors, this can seem like "gen rushing" when they're just completing their objectives and the relative lack of killer pressure makes it progressively easier. So it can seem like tunnelling out a survivor early is the only way to compete.
But on the other side, if you made gens any slower, the snowball in the killers favour when they can apply effective pressure will be oppressive, which would only make tunnelling survivors even more effective.
Tunnelling and Gen rushing are simply two sides of the same coin, each side completing their objective and quickly and efficiently as possible. Any linear adjustments to how fast those objectives are completed will only skew the game in favour of one side or the other.
Instead, there needs to be some form of scaling to compensate for the snowball effect. You can't really apply this to the killers objective as whether or not they score a hook is down to a whole range of factors, so the target has to be repair speeds.
E.g. The more gens are repaired, the longer subsequent gens take to repair. The fewer survivors remain in the game, the quicker gens can be repaired.
So some kind of algorithm like the old hatch spawn mechanics is needed. I would say survivors base repair speed should be 90% (0.9c/s) +5% for each remaining gen, -5% for each other survivor still in the game.
So at the start of the game that's 100% repair speed (90% +25% -15% for 1c/s), but if four gens are repaired and all survivors remain in the game, it's reduced to 80% (90% +5% -15% for 0.8c/s), meanwhile if 2 survivors are eliminated but no gens have been repaired, it'll be 110% (90% +25% -5% for 1.1c/s).
It's not a major difference that would penalise one side or the other for 'winning', just enough that the snowball is slowed down and it becomes more feasible to turn around for either side
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But.... I like tunneling and collect salt at the endgame chat 🥺
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Like straight up "I'll hunt one single player right from the start and ignore every other survivor on purpose until he/she/it is dead, then onto the next one"?
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And you'd still be free to do that, but it would mean the players who don't want to tunnel, wouldn't feel like they had to to stand a chance.
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This doesn't seem like a bad idea
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No gen speed slow down they are already so slow so who want's to fix gen 120s? Survivors should have secondary objectives like finding part for gen and killer could also try to stop that preventing gen from being completed. Artist perks which block all gens should be buffed and be 2 time use.
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It's a good idea. I suggested the same thing not long ago.
More survivors alive = gens take longer to complete.
Less survivors alive = gens take less time to complete.
This way the game would be more balanced and both hard tunneling & gen rush could be less impactful.
Besides if you have 1dc at the start of the match this could help the remaining survivors a lot if they are somewhat decent.
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And make great skill checks bigger after survivor(s) dies? There's no motivation to win when the killer just downs 1st survivor and camps him out 20 seconds so they kill themselves or DC on a large or bad-designed map. All hooks need to be out in the open no more corner camping hooks that are as bad as the basement in terms of getting a save and just trading because game designers are dumb.
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Gen speed isn’t actually as big a problem as some people think. The median kill rates are in the desired 1-3 range. The devs want the game balanced around 4 kills being the exception, not the rule, and that means the gates are supposed to be open most of the time when the survivors play well.
The only issue right now is that the killer meta seems to “require” running some sort of slowdown perk to stay in that 1-3 range. Ideally you’d want the killer to be able to use or not use slowdown perks and still be in that same range assuming they play equally well. And odds are pretty good that on the perk update the devs are noticing the popularity and effectiveness of slowdown perks and might be looking at, for example, slowing gens down a bit across the board so all loadouts benefit but nerfing the actual slowdown perks so slowdown heavy builds don’t become more powerful than they already are. Something like that would hopefully keep kill rates where they are overall but allow for more flexibility in what killers feel comfortable using.
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Doesn't seem like a very good idea...
I don't think it's a good idea to change the gen speed depending on the number of players, survivors are not balanced in terms of PS within the team, and killers don't seem to be balanced in terms of matching.
Especially, it could create a trend where the survivor who is caught is obligated to be sacrificed, and if that happens, SBMM will no longer function. (I don't know if the secrecy system still works today...)
The type of delay perk that would be reduced by a percentage would become evil.
This is great as a killer main, but becomes a big problem when playing as a survivor. Especially solo Q.
My ideas are as follows.
・Make collapsing the collapsing the default system.
∙ Reduce palette and window generation from what it is now.
・Restore the scratch to what it used to be fresh.
・Make loops harder.
・Better visibility (viewing angle, brightness, etc.) for the killer.
・Rethink the map generation system. What is the reason for the silent nerf to the number and spacing of hooks?
・Review the wriggle system (why doesn't the gauge of abandoned survivors decrease? Why is it possible to get out faster than before?)
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Yep, like that.
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I’d say the more survivors escape the better the blood point gain, since it seems survivors get less than killers on average.
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I can't wait to sit on a gen for 2 minutes straight....and then the killer stacks every gen speed perk known to man.
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Mhhhhh, nah that goes against my feeling of sportsmanship. Do you play both sides or only killer?
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Survivors not spawning all separately with gens a few steps away would be a good start. Killers have to find their objective at the start of the match, survivors should have the same task.
With how most games play out now people need to either accept that gens need to be slowed down OR that you have to buff killers (the weaker killers I mean, not nurse etc) in the chase. Whether that’s through actual buffs to the killers themselves or a reduction in loops/pallets etc. But the game can’t carry on as it is.
I’m actually worried this initial perk rework that’s coming up will make the game horrible to play from a killer perspective if the slowdown perks are weakened without the base gameplay being altered enough to compensate. Hopefully though if slowdown perks are nerfed some good data will come of it for the future of the game.
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Great idea, I like it, rewards the killer for spacing out chases, and makes the match not over in an instant if the spawns are bad.
Some few yikes comments here tho
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Regarding hooks, you can make it so hooks debuff non-hooked survivor gen speeds until the player is off the hook. Dying state does not effect gen speeds at all and hooked players function like PH cages to reduce camping.
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Both sides, but I don´t like easy mode so I play like 20% survivor 80% killer. Is not the same tunnel gens than survis, gens can´t be salty at egc
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The solution to making Gens take longer CANNOT be that gens simply require more time to complete. It will never fly. Punishing survivors like that would be a disaster and everyone knows it, so it needs to come out of these once-a-day threads.
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Thanks for responding, that was everything I needed to know.
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You think that 2 survivors are capable of doing 4 gens alone?
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I said slow down perks would be nerfed, reworked.
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Did you read my whole post??? When someone dies they get a big speed boost to the gens. How is this punishing survivors? It evens out and allows the killer to go for more chases with less tunneling and camping.
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It's a great idea and would immediately make the game a lot more fun. But no one wants gens to take longer because survivors want to hold m1 for 5 minutes and leave with no meaningful interaction with the killer.
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I did read the whole post. It's not about punishing survivors. It's about taking TOO long. No one wants to sit and play gen simulator. Any game where the majority of the interaction is waiting is bad design.
There are also several other design flaws with your suggestion, but none of them matter more than waiting = bad.
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These kind of changes will punish solo Q as always, some players aren't doing gens at all they just play for fun, do challenges, search totems for 5+ minutes, taunt killers...you can't slowdown gens that much
Something simple against tunneling : give us BT basekit and maybe kindred so we can play more fun builds with our perk slots.
For gen speed I have no idea, maybe slow them at 2 gens left
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If only they Rework Matchmaking system to reward Interaction with the killer, as well as Hooks; instead of the vague win conditions of Kills and Escapes; this would be much better.
The game should factor in the amount of chases you engage in, the amount of hooks, and bonus for deaths for killer. For Survivor, it should do more then just factor in how they escape; it should analyze the Survivor's performance in the match; did they help fix the gens, did they keep the killer busy while the team does gens, did the Survivor even bother interacting with the killer instead of hiding in a bush or locker the whole time; and managed to escape while their hard working teammates dies as a result. It should measure and a factor all fo these, so that Survivors and killers whom play their hardest do not get stomped; while weakest will pair with players to their similar skill level
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If you think because if play more killer than surv I dont know how hard is to get tunneled, you are wrong xD I have close to 5k hours played ( 193 days in hours played according to my Xbox Profile stats) and I suffered it but I do not rage about it, because is necessary and it is fun to do, cuz people get mad about their lack of skill and blame killers for it.
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Its not like a match starts with 2 survivors.
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I think this is a good idea.
But testing may be required.
These mechanics may also extend additional tactics.
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Oh, I must've misread what you said.
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