Since Sabotage is getting a buff, these two changes should be made
- The cooldown should activate on successful sabotages and not on failed attempts. Shouldn't need to explain why.
- If Scourge Hooks are in play, they should be shown in a different coloured aura than regular hooks.
Survivors have no way to counter the effects of Scourge Hook perks, as they are the same visually as a normal Hook and there are 4 of them. With two good Scourge Hook perks and the bad one, Gift of Pain, getting a buff soon, I believe that there should be some perk that counters them to keep them and future perks in check, which I believe Sabotage is perfect for.
If you don't like the idea of one perk countering a set of perks, remember that both Blood Echo and Mindbreaker exist for exhaustion perks, so there is precedent.
I believe these changes will make Sabotage a worthwhile perk to use, and I ask the devs to consider this idea if they haven't done so already.
Comments
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I think both changes are worthwhile and make sense to me - especially because opening up avenues of counterplay also opens up avenues to make the thing that now has a counter even more powerful in the future.
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I do agree with changing the cooldown conditions, however I think you should still be punished for taking a hit before completing the sabotage. But it’s definitely annoying to accidentally trigger it (eg. after unhooking and trying to heal) and then having it on a 60s cooldown.
Imo there are 2 ways to fix this, you can either give it a 10s cooldown after a failed attempt, or increase the sabo time to 3 seconds and have the cooldown only trigger after a successful sabotage. I think the first way is better since this doesn’t require nerfing another aspect of the perk.
Disagree with the scourge hook stuff though. Sabotage is already effective enough at countering them as it is.
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You are right about your first point. I say a 5 second cooldown after getting hit while saboing is a fair compromise, like how Soul Guard was given a cooldown to prevent abuse.
I disagree with your second point that Sabotage is effective at countering Scourge Hooks right now. Survivors have no way of knowing which hook is a Scourge Hook. The only way to confirm is by seeing a perk like Pain Resonance activate nearby and remembering the hook, which would be fine if there weren't 4 different Scourge Hooks, meaning it would take until late game to find all the hooks.
Additionally, one perk, Floods of Rage, gives no visible indication to the survivors that the perk is activate, bar perks like Distortion. So you could have a game where survivors don't even know there is a Scourge Hook perk in play, which could become problematic as more Scourge Hook perks are added to the game.
All of these points makes countering these perks with current Sabotage unreliable, as most of the time you have to make a guess where the Scourge Hooks are, and you might not even realise Scourge Hooks are in the game. Allowing Sabotage users to see Scourge Hook auras would open up more skillful plays and planning on the survivor's side, while also keeping the Scourge Hooks in check for the future, potentially leading to more interesting perk ideas.
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Completely agree with both points.
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This is a bad idea specially when up against SWF, I much rather hope they use their time on SoloQ buffs rather than Sabo buffs.
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Just to clarify they didn't say what is changing about Sabotage. It could be a buff, it could be a nerf, it would be a revamp that's neither.
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At that point might as well remove scourge hooks, they are already RNG dependent and unreliable as is, no counter is needed.
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I know, but I say a nerf is unlikely considering the perk's low usage rate, so it either going to be a buff or a rework.
These suggestions just my ideas for what a Sabotage buff should be, to improve the perk and to keep Scourge Hooks in check for the future.
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I could maybe agree if scourge hooks were actually more consistent. But right now you might get good scourge hook spawns or you might get 3 in a corner of the map and not get to use them a lot of the time. In other words they’re already rng dependent.
Also we know gift of pain and pain res are getting changed so we might as well wait and see what those changes are first. I could change my mind in the future depending on how those go.
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Sometimes I bring Agitation + Iron Grasp + Starstruck + Lightborn to counter hook sabotages and Boil Over but sometimes that is not enough.
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Meanwhile one of the biggest, broken and OP combos is Pain Res and DMS.
You can Pain Res a gen over and over and over again while using a killer with a lot of Map pressure like Nurse. The only counter is to DC.
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Sabo should take longer as a consequence though, you can already take a hit, break the hook and Dead Hard out of danger as it is. Sabo benefits bully squads more than anything else right now. I like the idea of Sabo countering Scourge Hooks though, really cool.
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Sabotage will not get a significant buff and if it does it will be nerfed right back to where it originally was and here are the 2 reasons. 1st, it's a survivor perk; expect survivor perks power, overall to be significantly decreased after this rework. This is BHVR after all. 2nd, Sabotage has been a problem perk just like Boil Over, if it has any usefulness, it will get nerfed back to its original state.
So the fact that BHVR is showing it as one of the perks that survivors are getting buffed during the rework means survivors are screwed. It means that one of the meta perks will be nerfed and Sabotage will not be buffed to compensate.
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Disagree on scourge hooks. It's easy to agree with it currently because the only scourge hook that gets played, Pain Res, is basically Pop that also sometimes reveals survivors like BBQ, with no gen kicking required. However, Pain Res is getting nerfed, and it should be the responsibility of the saboteurs to manually figure out which hooks are scourge hooks by letting the killer use them once. (Sabo is a playstyle mostly used by SWFs already, it shouldn't be too hard to do so)
I'd like to play in a meta that has scourge hook perks be viable, for a purpose other than gen regression, for at least a while before survivors get given the counter. Expecially as you only need to sabotage one scourge hook to prevent the perks most of the time, there's almost never a second one in range other than on Coal Tower.
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VINDICATION!
Thanks devs for adding Scourge Hooks auras to Sabo!
Now make the cooldown based on a successful sabo, not just an attempt, and add a 5 second cooldown after losing a health state to prevent abuse. Then this perk would be in a healthy state. Thanks again!
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