3 important issues with planned next mid chapter release
First, I love most of what is planned for the next mid-chapter release, I think there is going to be some tweaking needed with numbers during PTB and after it goes live, that is to be expected but there are 3 things that disappointed me enough to post feedback on.
1) Corrupt Intervention change
I honestly thought you were going to make this base kit as I couldn't see any logical nerf or buff that would make sense. The planned change essentially punishes a killer for getting value from the perk, the whole point of it is to slow down survivors at the start and allow killers to potentially get a hook and start applying pressure to survivors.
Now Corrupt is instantly disabled after you get a down which is a punishment and I can guarantee you right now, that some survivors and SWFs will have someone deliberately run at the killer with the plan of, loop as long as possible but if they down me, corrupt be disabled.
Unless I'm missing something this change is awful and should be reversed, a reason why Corrupt is so used is that it's essential and essential should become base kit, with Corrupt adjusted to suit (1-minute base kit, 1-minute corrupt perk)
2) Saboteur buff
Really? sorry but this was the most disappointing and annoying thing to read, this perk needs to be removed and not buffed.
On its own Saboteur is fine but when used with oak offerings that increase the distance between hooks, body blocking and survivors going for blind saves, collectively it's frustrating and overpowered, its a major issue
This perk needs to be redesigned into a perk that is similar to Legions addon that changes the colour of gens depending on progress, this more fits with Jake Park as well. Jake has Calm Spirit and Iron WIll which is more to do with stealth but yet he has Saboteur which means he runs out in front of the killer to sabo hook, which makes no sense.
Also, in big maps like Red Forrest and Foresaken Boneyard, you can get bad spawns with scourage hooks, now you increased the potential for a saboteur to take away a rare time you can make it to a scourage hook when you get bad spawns with scourage hooks.
3) Botany Knowlege
Survivors don't need faster heals, the game needs slower heals and not faster, this perk needs nerfed and not buffed
Comments
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As Otz put it, Corrupt Intervention exists to help killers who need help in the early game. If you down someone, you no longer need help in the early game. It's a smart change, I think.
As for Sabo, I think it gives the perk some additional personality and adds a counterplay avenue to scourge hooks.
And as for botany knowledge, 50% may be too much, but we'll see. Healing speeds are in a constant tug-of-war and its probably normal for it to shift up and down over time just to keep the balance in flux.
Overall, if there's three problems with the upcoming update I wouldn't make it these three.
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Otz is right that Corrupt exist to help killers get off to a hot start, getting an early down then can be snowballed into more value from that perk. Why should I be punished for successfully using the perk? the answer is a perk should never punish the player for getting strong value from it and the changes to Corrupt punishes the killer.
edit* you actually said Otz said corrupt exists to help killers in the early game, true and it still helps killers like trapper to setup and most of them wouldn't get 2+ downs, but it shouldn't punish the killers who could get 2+ downs.
What is the counterplay for killers dealing with an SWF squad who uses an oak offering, and tries to blind you with 2+ flashlights, sabo hooks and body blocks? There is none, you're most likely not getting that hook and not going make it to a scourage hook on a big map for certainty.
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You might be right about the Corrupt nerf and Botany buff going too far, but let's wait and see on those. As for Saboteur, the buff it received was minor at best and was a fantastic way to implement a counter to scourge hooks, several of which are getting buffed, so you are definitely wrong there.
There are tons of larger fish to fry than any of these three perk changes anyhow.
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I have mix opinions about the 1st, as I think corrupt intervention is good. Would be more better if instead reduced the timer by 45 or 60 seconds per Downed teammates, instead of removing it completely.
2nd problem isn't a problem as it is good change, and adds bit of counterplay to Scourge Hooks; and that is one less Survivor or even more doing Generators.
3rd Problem. 100% agreed; since Med-kits are very strong; if not the best Survivor item in the game; add that and Boon: CoH (not other boons, just CoH) you can stack healing bonuses and make Survivors very beefy and can tank alot of hits.
I do not like Self Care nerf, as it was from mediocre to now the worse Healing Perk that no body will ever run anymore. Meanwhile, CoH is buffed Self-Care on steroids; with the ability to Self-Care and stack it with medkits and new improved Botany knowledge. It like the Devs forgotten all about the insane strength of Pre Launch- Boon CoH. One you can bring alone, for your entire team!
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Let's make this perfectly clear. The goal of this update is to increase the value of subpar perks and reduce the value of perks that offer too much value. Corrupt was not some mid-tier perk, it gives way too much value to killer. Killers got many many base kit buffs. It stands to reason that these changes for killer have to come with the cost of reducing the value of the best perks that they can run.
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that is a fair point, killers did get a lot of love but I am still not a fan of being punished when you successfully get value from a perk you running.
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Corrupt was dumb change.
Sabo is just naturally annoying
And botany is just like why?
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Think of it this way.
If you got a down in early game, Corrupt already did it's job. You got the value (those 3 gens weren't progressed while you were chasing someone).
My problem with Botany change is that makes Desperate Measures even more obsolete in a way. Faster unhook really doesn't warrant using it over Botany. Same with Autodidact.
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If i see a legion with corrupt I'll eat the mend bleedout
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The buff to Botany might be a bit much, but the changes to Saboteur and Corrupt Intervention are completely fine. If you get a down during Corrupt Intervention, chances are, the perk already did good work for you. The nerf is good.
Saboteur letting survivors see Scourge Hooks is also just a nice change, it's certainly not an overpowered perk, not even close.
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I personally think Corrupt nerf was fine and reasonable. I kind of wish it had just become basekit then with this nerf added to it, so killers get some help early game by default instead of increasing generator times.
Corrupt, as the devs said in the post, is mainly to help killers that need some extra time to set up (Trapper/Hag) and it still achieves that, while also helping other killers protect 3 generators while in their first chase. Still a strong perk, but just tuned down a bit to not make it too oppresive with all the small buffs that killer get.
Regarding Sabo and Botany, I don't really care about either.
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It's not punishment, it's acknowledging that you no longer need the perk. Think about it in the same context as Decisive Strike and (soon to be) Off the Record deactivating when a survivor performs a 'conspicuous action' - they don't need either perk effect anymore if they start behaving productively.
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Corrupt Intervention ending earlier isn't much of a swan song, although I wish it had a different direction - it is more than fair to have it end early given its evident potency.
Saboteur is far from a strong perk, and this tiny little update will not pull it out of the quagmire of mediocre perks. This perk should not be removed from the game, it should be worked to make sabatoging hooks far more rewarding.
Botany Knowledge is broken, though. A 7% buff would still be profound given the nature of the meta. Making the perk 50% more effective than previously is insanity. There will be backlash from this - either directly form the community, or indirectly with very unhealthy gameplay rising in the trials.
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it seems u looking at saboteur perk only which is fine but when combined with oak offerings, body blocking and going for blinds it's a huge problem, we all know the bully SWF squads do this and this perk is part of it, why it needs to be removed completely.
never get me to agree on corrupt deactivating not being a punishment for getting value, it's like another perk deactivating when you get value.
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I have over 1,600 hours in the game and I've never had much difficulty when encountering the Saboteur perk. Sabo builds simply are not that effective - and such a change does not greatly increase its potency in the least. We may have to agree to disagree on that.
I agree with you ultimately - I don't like it when perks have a built in self-destruct. It is an unfun and purely negative Band-Aid approach to balance the developers are moving towards, which is concerning. That being said, I think that Corrupt is powerful enough that this will not matter much. Its potential value remains untouched, and its minimal value is still strong enough to warrant the perk slot. I wish it was a different direction, but it's a reassuring thing to know the perk will be far from dead.
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Corrupt: killers who really need it are Myers, Trapper, Hag etc. They still profit from it. Only killers who get fast kills anyway like Blight or Nurse won't profit as much from it anymore.
Sabo: the perk has a cooldown. And even with breakout and other Sabo stuff, you can still slug and capitalize on their altruism.
Botany: keep the 50% but only while healing others without a medkit/perk. No stacking with CoH, DM, Self Care or a medkit.
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yeah but let's be real, there are some players like you with the experience to deal with it, but imagine new killers dealing with saboteur, body blocking, blind save attempts and oak offerings increasing distance. We want people to be motivated to play killer and stay motivated, this doesn't help with that at all. Hense, why I feel something needs to be done and removing the saboteur altogether is what I think should be done.
also, there are only 4 scourage hooks on the map and on large maps, you can get bad spawns, therefore barely ever getting to one. saboteur is now like a warning system for an SWF on what area of the map to loop because there are no scourage hooks there.
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I see your point - but
A.) Bodyblock/Sabo builds are never pervasive to newer players - who are matched against other newer players. New survivors lack the situational awareness, the boldness, and/or the timing to pull off successful sabos. Oaks don't do much, either - and you won't see SWF lobbies using multiple in concert in low MMR lobbies. While I agree that low MMR killer are affected the most by a good sabo - I must disagree that Oaks or Sabos are particularly effective at any rate.
B.) If you want to help motivate killers, don't worry about the sabo game - focus on poor balance dynamics surrounding Endurance and healing. Sabo has been in the game since launch and the system has been largely untouched for the past few years - but the killer player rate took a nose dive after Boon: Circle Of Healing and the new MRR based SBMM. Harder match-ups mixed with powerful healing has been statistically the greatest deterrence for killer players in the short run - and in the long run, the major contributing factor to unfun killer gameplay is the ease of survivor objectives, which is being addressed. In no way does allowing a solitary perk to reveal the nature of hooks effect the longevity of killer players or their long-term enjoyment of the game.
C.) Removing a tertiary aspect of the game does not fix primary issues. In essence, systems should be reworked - but never removed outright. Especially if the spirit of such an action is motivated by external factors, and not - by merit - any issue with the system itself.
D.) This aura revealing status will only be shown to survivors when their allies are carried, so they do not instantly gain any particular information in the foremost moments of the match. Besides, the involvement of Scourge Hooks has been assumed since its introduction - especially since the domination of Pain Resonance in the meta.
E.) It's seldom that hook spawns are so egregiously horrendous as to become useless - especially when, as a killer, one can choose the flow of the game and coral survivors towards hooks. While there certainly are 'dead hooks' in matches, it is never likely that circumstances cause all 4 hooks to be placed so poorly... while also lending a hand to a match where forcing survivors towards them is impossible.
F.) Bringing this perk to feed information to the team to find weak spots in these rare circumstances can work slightly - but not totally. If survivors choose to avoid an area where there's a hook, they will likely forfeit pressure in a concentrated area - resulting in a deadly 3 gen situation - which makes it a tradeoff on paper. In practice, though, the outcome is far more exciting. I can count on two hands how many times I've seen this perk in play up in the meta MMR - the prospect of someone swapping out CoH, DS, DH, BT, or.. really.. any perk to bring this one is an interesting addition to the game.
G.) If the greatest point is that, if a survivor brings this perk with a rare hook spawn and happens to be SWF and correctly relays the information and times their chases right with the possibility of not being corralled with the chance of fighting through objectives and might be able to foil a hook at certain key points in the match if they execute their plan without issue . . . then I'd say it's fair enough. There's enough face-camping and Styptic body-blocking that is blatant and without counter, drawing issue with such an outspokenly rare, situational, and pervasively precarious situation is needless.
H.) If each and every survivor perk was put into its absolutely and fundamentally most ideal situation like this, all survivor perks would be broken. "If someone uses Breakout and there are no hooks nearby - and they coordinated with their friend to be downed in a hook dead zone - it would be impossible to get a hook! Breakout should be removed!" But how often does that happen? How often do people take Breakout for such a benefit? And in those extremely rare occasions where it is attempted, how often does it backfire? The fulcrum of balance is not only in the rarity of the exchange, but its propensity to be countered by misplays and clever counterplay.
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