General Discussions
General Discussions
DS doesn't need a skill-check anymore and should trigger after both unhooks
Considering its upcoming nerfs, the skill check should be removed nor should it work once.
Being nerfed to a 3-second stun (why?) and being unavailable endgame (I can understand this) should at least give DS fair QOL in return.
The skill check is outdated. It's probably my bias as a console player since the skill-check is not consistent with us. Frames are jittery and I might as well replace DS with the new Off The Record.
The 3-second stun is SO questionable and since DS won't trigger late-game, why can't it trigger after both unhooks now?
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Or just revert it to 5s and not make either of those unnecessary changes.
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Yeah I don't think BHVR wants to but either way, why would those changes be unnecessary? I already gave reasons for those ideas.
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Just revert to 5 seconds and call it a day. Literally no reason to nerf that part of it
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The skill check exists because it is not meant to be guaranteed. You are intended to have the ability to mess up and miss, and thus not get it.
It is once per game, because it is not meant to stop or counter tunneling. It is meant to be a one-time disincentive to discourage reckless tunneling. Against good survivors, it will be punished hard already, as you have just lost your down and must do an entirely new chase to get them again. In which time the survivors will crank out gens against you. And the time you spent chasing for the down up till now will have been rendered mostly useless. It does not need a buff.
It does not work in endgame because expecting the killer to not tunnel in endgame is nonsensical.
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5 seconds was only added because Enduring affected it. They did say that they would revert it should they remove that ability of Enduring. They did the latter, but broke the promise on the former. Now they finally came through.
@OP Absolutely not. DS is and always has been a plague to this game. If a majority of my fellow survivor players lament that Nurse is a mistake, I say DS is a mistake.
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I already advocated for the removal of the skill check since the last nerf, and now with the upcoming changes it truly is time for it to go. It would just be a QOL change for most of us anyways, but would still be a buff for the newer players.
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It's outclassed by Off The Record so just remove the skill check because as I already said, it's not reliable for SOME players and no it's not a skill issue before you assume. If the game won't let me use it then killers will just moan when other perks get used more.
BHVR just buffed killers and nerfed the DS stun. I understand it not being available end-game but the perk is now way too niche. My proposal is based on BHVR's new intentions for the perk. If they want to nerf the stun and reduce its availability thus making it less appealing, then give it the QOL it should have.
If you think DS is a plague to the game considering all of the nerfs it has received, idk what to tell you buddy.
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QoL is different from an outright buff like making it usable a second time. QoL would be making the skillcheck appear later on the turn so early lag spike doesn't make you miss. I'm fine with skillchecks on it being removed personally, despite it being unnecessary. I do not support it being usable twice, because that goes against the entire point. You are not meant to have a counter.
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ok but why is it not meant to be guaranteed...? and why do you think it working for both hook states would make it stop tunneling...? the way it is now, it kind of encourages tunneling once you've been hit by it because now you know whoever used it wont have it again.
I agree with OP. let's make ds actual anti tunnel while removing the skill check. If you're being tunneled, your anti tunnel perk should help with that.
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Difference between nurse and DS is that one was actually reworked into a good state. Nurse was nerfed a lot but they never fixed the core issue she has
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It doesn't disincentivize killers from reckless tunneling. If I hit the killer with it, they'll know that I don't have it thus INCENTIVIZING tunneling.
This doesn't help with the 3-sec stun nerf. Mind you, players were already asking for it to work twice even when it was 5 seconds.
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Right! The skill check stayed long enough so it can go now. Bye bye!
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I think that's more than fair given the 3 sec nerf and EGC disable
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No.
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This is a good point. If I get 59 second DSed or someone BT bodyblocks me into DS, they're getting hard facecamped and tunneled out next hook
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It is not, nor was ever intended to be anti-tunnel. That is literally why it only works once. Undoing a down + entire chase is absurdly powerful.
Eating the DS in the first place means you wasted the entire chase that you now have to redo. Against good survivors, that is an extremely big risk a killer cannot afford to take recklessly, which is why slugging is another strategy used to deal with that so someone has to come pick them up while you chase someone else. This is what discouraging reckless tunneling is. A killer cannot just randomly choose to eat it without getting punished hard if the survivors are playing well. Survivors not playing well enough to take advantage of it does not make the perk weak. Yes, knowing the survivor no longer has it means they can tunnel them. Which still requires eating it in the first place, which doing is extremely risky against good survivors.
DS working twice would be beyond busted.
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Then killers shouldn't be eating DS so carelessly. It's not like survivors that got unhooked will start doing anything productive for the team until that timer wears off. Why waste time hunting someone who won't provide progress for the team? Don't shoot yourself in the foot now.
If DS worked twice then it's the killer's fault for being stabbed AGAIN by the same person. They already got a warning the first time so if they insist on tunneling, that killer deserved it. Hell, even OhTofu a killer main suggested the same thing and I'm not one to shove well-known content creators' words down my throat.
The stun got nerfed, it cant be used endgame, and killers got a load of general improvements to help them... this patch speaks for itself.
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I disagree with the skill check part but I'm not against the second part.
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yeah it is powerful, that's why the conditions for it are so strict, and easily avoidable in every game. that's why I believe it wouldnt be broken in the slightest.
devs themselves have said ds discourages tunneling, and I think it does the complete the opposite once used. making it work on both hook states is perfect for fixing that.
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There's no reason it should have a skillcheck. The players missing the skillcheck are the ones that need it the most - the ones lagging or... inexperienced players.
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Oh dang. The first sentence was spot on, didn’t like where the second went though. DS has arguably never been in a good state. Certainly won’t be after these nerfs!
The other thing you mentioned is BHVR’s masterpiece (chef’s kiss).
Edit: typo.
Post edited by GoshJosh on2 -
Exactly. As if this game had enough skill checks already.
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^ This.
I'm on Switch. Running DS isn't even an option. (I mean, technically it's an option, because I made the mistake of unlocking the teachable thinking I could use it to help with being tunneled out. Silly me. All DS has done is waste a stupid amount of BP in Bloodwebs as I'm forced to buy it. I'd like my BP back, please.) There is no reason for a tiny skill check. A quicktime event that requires swiftly pressing a button but without frame-precision timing would be fine. A large Autodidact-like skill check would be okay, too; no worries, killers, Switch players would still miss it sometimes given the performance problems, but at least we'd have a chance at hitting it. A reasonable chance is what we want.
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I have a friend who plays on the switch and I've heard that the performance isn't smooth. She'll sometimes complain about regular skill checks bc her frames drop really hard. I don't even want to imagine trying to land DS on the switch.
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The point was to nerf it not buff it so it’s not meta anymore.
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Skill checks are client sided. They are not affected by lag.
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I would be down to have auto-DS after every unhook. Would make it a true anti tunnel perk.
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Frame drops, low framerate, inconsistent frametime and input lag. Very far from smooth. Multiple times a day I find myself yelling "I hit that!" because the game decided I failed a normal skill check that damn well should've been successful. No amount of practice or skill can best the performance problems.
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I really don't see how removing the skill check from DS would be problematic. It would still need a button press so you can control when to use it.
If people really are so against this then just make the skill check zone bigger.
I play on pc and hit it just fine but I feel bad for console players who seem to have problems with hitting it consistently.
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Interesting to see some people in this thread who are against all of these suggested changes to DS. Even after the stun nerf, endgame collapse nerf, and we all know it disables after doing, well, anything but running. Almost seems like they rely on tunnelling every game to get kills... Funny that.
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These suggestions are changes the perk needed for a while now. Yeah it got nerfed, but it REALLY needs these suggestions if it wants a chance to not be in the dumpster pile.
The devs said that they know the issue of tunneling yet they decided to nerf one of the best "remedies" to the issue.
Ever since the conditions nerf to it a while back, DS after every unhook should've been considered. Now it's more necessary than ever.
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They didn't Nerf the stun they reverted it back to what it was before enduring was fixed. DS always had a 3 sec stun before enduring was buggedand OtR is rumored to work on first unhook only
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I can't wait to run Knock Out all the time.
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Sigh. Survivors really can't have nice things against unfun/scummy playstyles, can they?
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It makes sense because why would they reduce DS not to work in endgame but make OTR so powerful and be used multiple times?
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I agree with the skillcheck it's not needed for a 3 seconds stun, it's only 1 more second than a pallet stun if I'm not mistaken it's really weak. But it should probably only work once, 2 times might be OP if you stack it with OTR ?
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Yeah, Dont forget -> After DS, killer must bring you a Caipirinha, the newspaper and open the exit gates xD
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If a survivor is using two perk slots against tunneling and the killer insists on going through with it, then it's fair enough.
Also if the killer is stunned once, they should know that the survivor has DS. Using the first stun as a warning assuming the perk can be used twice.
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I don't see how it would be problematic either. I'm assuming killer mains want the chance of people missing the skillcheck a thing to make the perk weaker as if the perk wasn't beaten up already.
Exactly. I have no idea why these suggestions would be seen as unnecessary. It's baffling considering its current state rn and WHY people run it.
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Nice joke bro!!
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Playing for 12 hooks it's ridiculous and you just can do it unless you're a good nurse or survivors are just bad. If you play with imaginary survivor rules they have all the time in the world to genrush and leave... And don't forget to tbag at the door :)
This can be obvious for a lot of people but you clearly don't play killer that much
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Idc about removing the skillcheck but giving control to the survivor on when to use it is a horrible idea, as you can basically fake not having ds, make the killer carry you to a hook and last second use it wasting way more than even the 5 seconds it has now.
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The skill check exists because it is not meant to be guaranteed. You are intended to have the ability to mess up and miss, and thus not get it.
That may be the intention, but an intention is not a justification. You can intentionally make a bad decision, but that doesn't make it -not- a bad decision. An additional hindrance here is that there can be errors that are outside the player's control that cause this extremely conditional perk to inadvertently shut down. I think I've seen multiple complaints about DS being unfairly harder to use on Console due to framedrops and lagspikes.
I do think the skill check should stay, but it should be changed to 100% of the skill check bar, so that it essentially becomes unmissable. The reason it should stay is so that the survivor has a clear visual indicator of the time they have to use the perk, before it becomes inaccessible until they're next picked up.
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I have 4k hours in DBD, and i'd probably say 1k of those hours on killer. I've played a fair amount and i never play for 4 kills because i find it boring and pointless to play like a sweaty nerd just to get 4 kills, which means nothing in the grand scheme of things. I get way more bloodpoints, and have more fun (and so do the survivors) when i try to go for as many hooks as possible while securing at least 2 kills. When i play like this i get at least 2 kills every match when playing with my mains (Hag, Pyramidhead, and spirit.) Thats not to say i don't get 4k very often, because i do, but i don't expect it every match like some of you killer mains do.
Killer mains purposely go out of their way to tunnel one survivor early game to force a 3 v 1. Which is very smart if you are desperate for a 4k because an early 3v1 scenario obviously ensures that. But for me, its really not worth doing. If i wanted to get 4ks every match, then sure, yes, but i don't care about it because it means jack #########. Imagine playing a game where everyone can have fun.
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Wasn't a joke, but go ahead.
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I don't know why I barely got to read this, but I agree. There are extra hindrances that just make the perk not convenient for some players just like you already mentioned.
I wouldn't mind the skill check being 100% of the bar either. I guess that's another way of circumventing its skill check issue for inexperienced players or those on console. It would just make the perk a lot more convenient considering its upcoming nerfs.
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I can second this now that it's fair
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Because a lil bit of chance keeps things interesting.
Don't forget there is a balance between mechanical application and thematic gameplay.
I brought DS so I have an auto escape if caught again makes less sense thematic game wise than an, I got caught again but have a chance to escape.
As much as the PVP comp power gamers want this to be a purely mechanical affair its still a survival horror and things should fit accordingly, which a skill check on DS does.
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Remove the skill check? Sure!
Activate 2 times in a match? No!
If anything, it would probably just make the killer hard camp you on second hook if they saw you use it after the first hook.
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As a console player I agree the frame is bad but everyone forgets that DS use to be 3 seconds however it was made longer to counter enduring. Enduring then was changed to only work with pallets leaving the 5 second stun for years. The devs are just returning DS to the orginal timer. Also no you shouldn't get two free escapes. 1 is enough, do what you can with that. You are going to get a free borrowed time and many people will still run the orginal perk for even a longer duration so you can most certainly get to a safe zone.
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