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New survivor exploit has officially countered Legion to exinction.

DarkWo1f997
DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
edited December 2018 in General Discussions
If you’re being chased by the legion during a frenzy, he hits you, and starts looking for his next victim, you can mend immediately after he turns his attention away from you and completely negate his only somewhat useful power. I’m not saying it should guarantee a down, but they mend the status effect away way too quickly after it’s applied. It doesn’t provide a sense of danger and urgency to survivors.

They just sorta go,”Lol I’m “”bleeding out”” Lit lmao.”

Unless you hit someone twice in fury, their bar will not even reach 50% before they fix it. It doesn’t apply enough pressure. 

This leads Legion players to tunnel aggressively because it’s not worth it to seek new targets.  When the survivor mends successfully immediately after the Legion is looking for another target, some tend to turn around and look for the survivor they just broke away from to finish them off, giving the other two survivors that the killer did not manage to find during frenzy, a lot of time to do gens. 

- Legion needs to be able to see survivors blood bubbles map wide upon frenzy hit
- while mending, the timer should only slow down by 25% or 50% instead of stopping it entirely. 
- Increase base movement speed to the default killer speed instead of that of a sleepy turtle, this way the power is not needed to navigate the map AT ALL TIMES. 
- IF you aren’t going to change the base movement speed, increase fury’s regeneration rate significantly to compensate for this and make Legion effectively a reliable burst killer. 


If none of these changes seem reasonable to you, then:

- remove his terror radius entirely while not in frenzy. 

- only remove scratch marks of survivors upon being struck during a frenzy


- allow enduring to reduce the frenzy fatigue state duration. 
Post edited by DarkWo1f997 on
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Comments

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669

    hmm...
    his power kinda reminds me of freddy...

    GOOD NEWS!
    there is some indirect killer buffs incoming!
    everyone, besides freddy, will move one place up in the killer ranking!
    ISNT THIS GREAT?
    :D

  • Crow
    Crow Member Posts: 113

    At this point I don't expect the killer to be buff. They just going to assume that the fun is in injuring survivors and that's it.

  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    @Barron your posts reek of survivor bias, and lack of knowledge of multiple subjects at hand, and you insult the community by calling them, “pseudo-intellectuals”. My posts are varied and fight for both sides. I even criticized how being hooked makes survivors impatient and suicide on hook as well as more hostile to the killer because of how boring a major part of the game is, and how frustrating it is to have to endure it. 

    I’ve kindly reccomended that the struggle phase needs to be a button hold because it is not enjoyable to mash a button for a chance to stay in the match. 

    However it looks like you don’t really have the best attitude when it comes to this community. Labeling players with insults and angrily writing off anyone that feels killers are weak, is definitely bias if I’ve ever seen it. Your bias claim is false. 

    You're such a heavy weight fighting for both sides. lol "I think you shouldn't have to jam a button" lollol As if that truly affects the balance of the game in any meaningful way or shows that you aren't biased. That's just a common sense QOL change.

    If it was common sense, why didn’t you make a post about it? Don’t forget what I said about making hooks less boring. That’s pretty important,

     I’ve proposed a boil over change that allows survivors to grab onto objects while wiggling to briefly stop the killer and increase their chances of escape, meaning the killer needs to pay attention to their pathing while moving. Something I would like to keep me engaged while playing killer. And something that makes struggling as a survivor, not useless. 
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    Crow said:

    At this point I don't expect the killer to be buff. They just going to assume that the fun is in injuring survivors and that's it.

    They don’t need to buff him, just fix his over-counterability. 
  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Or just allow his power to have exposed from iron maiden and noed
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    redsopine01 said:
    Or just allow his power to have exposed from iron maiden and noed
    WOAAAHHH NO NO NO NO too much! Too much! That wouldn’t be fun or fair. His deep wounds pressure is the only thing that I think definitively needs changing ASAP. 
  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068
    edited December 2018

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    redsopine01 said:

    Or just allow his power to have exposed from iron maiden and noed

    WOAAAHHH NO NO NO NO too much! Too much! That wouldn’t be fun or fair. His deep wounds pressure is the only thing that I think definitively needs changing ASAP. 

    I would think that once out of the chase his timer could tick down the further away he is from the victim, so if for instance he loses them. At the start of an internal 5 sec timer he doesn't re-aquire them then the timer ticks down at an ever increasing rate.

    So .5 ticks per second then increasing steadily like BT timer to being depleted at 15 seconds and the only cure is Mending. To keep people from just losing him and Mending for 1 second the pause on the timer will have a decay effect that stacks.

    The more you pause the mend similar to the old SC at a pallet pause routine the faster the progress you made will decay back to zero. This would put pressure on people to stop and mend completely.

    One thing you could also add to it's effect is to make it so you can't repair gens similar to how you can't do so in Madness Tier III.

    @MandyTalk @Peanits Thoughts on this?

    Post edited by powerbats on
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    powerbats said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    redsopine01 said:

    Or just allow his power to have exposed from iron maiden and noed

    WOAAAHHH NO NO NO NO too much! Too much! That wouldn’t be fun or fair. His deep wounds pressure is the only thing that I think definitively needs changing ASAP. 

    I would think that once out of the chase his timer could tick down the further away he is from the victim, so if for instance he loses them. At the start of an internal 5 sec timer he doesn't re-aquire them then the timer ticks down at an ever increasing rate.

    So .5 ticks per second then increasing steadily like BT timer to being depleted at 15 seconds and the only cure is Mending. To keep people from just losing him and Mending for 1 second the pause on the timer will have a decay effect that stacks.

    The more you pause the mend similar to the old SC at a pallet pause routine the faster the progress you made will decay back to zero. This would put pressure on people to stop and mend completely.

    One thing you could also add to it's effect is to make it so you can't repair gens similar to how you can't do so in Madness Tier III.

    That’s a really interesting way to counter players that might tunnel regardless, rewarding those that break away from a chase after a successful strike. This is a really good suggestion, bats. 
  • Cardgrey
    Cardgrey Member Posts: 1,454
    edited December 2018
    I don't get why people are so upset... Just don't play him if no one plays him then fun or viability won't matter.
    I'll stick to my predator style killer ty
  • PhantomMask20763
    PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 5,176
    I dont think legion himself is bad I think it's the deep wound effect that makes him feel weak. Deep wounds simply needs to be more threatening. Right now it's more of a "oh no the killer hit me with his power, oh well time to just stand here for 10 seconds and hold a button, yay all better now!!!" Currently a rbt is more threatening than deep wounds simply because it can actually kill you if the timer is ticking and you don't get it off in time. Deep wounds should go down in a chase to encourage the survivor to escape but to compensate for this the timer should be increased by a bit. It should also only take 3 hits to down someone affected by the deep wound effect because it honestly takes too long to get the job done with legion right now. That's really the only thing I can think of right now, his speed shouldn't be buffed though because then he'll just be another M1 killer, I like it when the killer has to rely on its power, like nurse or huntress for example. It's nice to see the killers power shine in all its glory not like leatherface who rarely gets to actually use his power 
  • BigBubs
    BigBubs Member Posts: 1,131
    edited December 2018

    @Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    Blueberry said:

    Sounds reasonable and makes sense to me. Survivors needs a reason to heal against him, otherwise they all just stay injured and make him look stupid.

    I think making him a burst killer would be really fun and unique, but he feels like a gimmick right now and when the illusion of your power making a difference shatters, he just loses his appeal. He does basically nothing. 

    Yea, but would it be fun to play against. You realize people need to have fun to play a game and to continue to play it, right?

    We have nurse already.
    At least we will have a variety.

  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    thesuicidefox said:

    Technically speaking, if you start Mending the moment he goes for someone else, you are still wasting time you could be using to heal or do gens (if it were any other killer for example). I think that's the point of his power, to force survivors to Mend constantly so they have less time to do gens or heal. TrueTalent had a solid build for Legion with Thanatophobia and M&A. He would focus on trying to inflict Deep Wounds on multiple survivors each time he used his power to slow them down, and M&A made his TR really big in Frenzy so that he can see everyone.

    His power isn't mean to down you. It's meant to make you waste time, or as a means of keeping pressure on your during a chase.

    That said, they do need to make a few tweaks to Deep Wounds/Mend and Legion to make him better. But what the OP describes is exactly what the killer wants you to do... spend time Mending instead of doing other stuff.

    That’s the thing fox, and im
    glad you pointed this out. Wasting time in a match simply drags it out, it doesn’t help the killer at all, why would I hit someone in frenzy when simply two hitting normally for a down is much more beneficial? I see what they are trying to do here, it shouldn’t gaurantee a down, but they should definitely make it to where it makes them weaker over time. Wearing down survivors would be fun for this killer, and finally add another layer of gameplay to the now slightly tiresome “two hit” chases. 

    It would be more fun if every time the deep
    wounds effect was applied, it was more severed and would bleed quicker. Or at least reduce the bar to a minimum of 50%, with each deep wound hit from a healthy state reducing its max health by 10%. Resulting in needing to have the effect applied five times to really feel the impact. Stops Tunneling. Seems like a
    lot of fun. 
  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @DarkWo1f997 said:

    That’s a really interesting way to counter players that might tunnel regardless, rewarding those that break away from a chase after a successful strike. This is a really good suggestion, bats. 

    Thanks I think it works well for both sides without breaking anything one way or the other and doesn't require massive reworking him. Then running into the exact same problems of underwhelming or op again and going through same issues again.

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,223

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    That’s the thing fox, and im
    glad you pointed this out. Wasting time in a match simply drags it out, it doesn’t help the killer at all, why would I hit someone in frenzy when simply two hitting normally for a down is much more beneficial? I see what they are trying to do here, it shouldn’t gaurantee a down, but they should definitely make it to where it makes them weaker over time. Wearing down survivors would be fun for this killer, and finally add another layer of gameplay to the now slightly tiresome “two hit” chases. 

    It would be more fun if every time the deep wounds effect was applied, it was more severed and would bleed quicker. Or at least reduce the bar to a minimum of 50%, with each deep wound hit from a healthy state reducing its max health by 10%. Resulting in needing to have the effect applied five times to really feel the impact. Stops Tunneling. Seems like a lot of fun. 

    If it means someone loses time on a hook or a gen regresses more than is has an affect on the game. If I'm sitting there Mending instead of healing or doing a gen while you chase, that's just extra time for the killer. If you catch the guy when I stop Mending it's still worth the time loss. If survivors aren't doing their objectives then you benefit as killer.

    You have to look at it like: Should I chase and two hit this ONE LONE survivor, or should I get a hit on 3 survivors and have a (potentially) longer chase on one of them? I would take the latter because that's 3 survivors not doing gens. If it takes me an extra 15 seconds to end the chase because of my speed/power, it's still a net gain for me since no gens are being done.

  • Malakir
    Malakir Member Posts: 799
    Crow said:

    At this point I don't expect the killer to be buff. They just going to assume that the fun is in injuring survivors and that's it.

    yeah that's what they stated
    "Its meant to be fun, if you wanna play competitively play billy or nurse"
    Something like that in the dev stream. Too bad the concept of fun is very subjective and they assume their meaning of fun is injured people left and right and let everyone escape

    Which might even be fine if the emblem system wasn't broken, nobody played this in a competitive way, there wasn't a rank system, you ain't called killer but entertainer 

    Some people just liked to kill everybody others like to chase or being chased. Other likes to play immersed etc etc

    Say, this is the way is more fun for us = fun for everybody, is wrong. I really got triggered when they stated that on the dev stream. A game should be balanced to make everybody play as they wish to have their fun in their terms, not imposing it.

  • KiraElijah
    KiraElijah Member Posts: 1,187
    DarkWo1f997 said:
    Barron said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    Blueberry said:

    Sounds reasonable and makes sense to me. Survivors needs a reason to heal against him, otherwise they all just stay injured and make him look stupid.

    I think making him a burst killer would be really fun and unique, but he feels like a gimmick right now and when the illusion of your power making a difference shatters, he just loses his appeal. He does basically nothing. 

    Yea, but would it be fun to play against. You realize people need to have fun to play a game and to continue to play it, right?

    With the changes he sounds pretty fun to play against to me.

    I read your posts. One of the most biased individuals on these forums. I most certainly don't respect your opinion or what you would consider "fun".

    Me? Biased? I play both sides evenly. I have a meg avatar FFS. You go ahead and play Legion and tell me how much fun you’re having. As a matter of fact, play anyone that isn’t billy, nurse, or, Myers and tell me what a blast it is to play killer. 

    Dont even try to pretend that killer isnt more stressful than survivor. If I was biased, I would want Legion to have no secondary Frenzy hit cooldown, and an ability reset upon hitting the same target. 

    Survivors got some stupidly overpowered buffs with the new changes and I think you label someone that wants a killer improved as “bias” because you don’t like the idea of actually having to try against a killer. 

    EDIT: you don’t even acknowledge the new borrowed time problem or the stupid powerful new meta perk deck we just got for survivors. You are blind to balance issues on the survivor’s side and fail to see why these change suggestions are the way they are. 
    Endgame Wraith is fun
  • Visionmaker
    Visionmaker Member Posts: 2,051
    "New" "exploit" "countered to extinction"
    So survivors give themselves permanent exposed and now Legion is dead (because M1 on 110 is apparently impossible).
    Lol good bait
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    edited December 2018
    Visionmaker said:
    "New" "exploit" "countered to extinction"
    So survivors give themselves permanent exposed and now Legion is dead (because M1 on 110 is apparently impossible).
    Lol good bait
    Don’t even bother to read the post. Just like hag, you don’t use your ######### eyes. 

    “Permanent exposed” hey pal, you just blow in from stupid town? 
    Post edited by DarkWo1f997 on
  • Watery
    Watery Member Posts: 1,167
    This is some real tea. 
  • Speshul_Kitten
    Speshul_Kitten Member Posts: 1,861
    Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    Blueberry said:

    Sounds reasonable and makes sense to me. Survivors needs a reason to heal against him, otherwise they all just stay injured and make him look stupid.

    I think making him a burst killer would be really fun and unique, but he feels like a gimmick right now and when the illusion of your power making a difference shatters, he just loses his appeal. He does basically nothing. 

    Yea, but would it be fun to play against. You realize people need to have fun to play a game and to continue to play it, right?

    With the changes he sounds pretty fun to play against to me.

    I read your posts. One of the most biased individuals on these forums. I most certainly don't respect your opinion or what you would consider "fun".

    I find that quite ironic since you were the one that asked me a question.

    Regardless, I am not biased at all, I play both sides at rank 1 regularly. However, I doubt you could say the same.

    Look who it is accusing people of not playing both sides. Sounds like you need to get put in your place again 🤨
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    AlexAnarchy said:

    @Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    If you’re being chased by the legion during a frenzy, he hits you, and starts looking for his next victim, you can mend immediately after he turns his attention away from you and completely negate his only somewhat useful power. 

    This leads Legion players to tunnel aggressively because it’s not worth it to seek new targets.  When the survivor mends successfully immediately after the Legion is looking for another target, some tend to turn around and look for the survivor they just broke away from to finish them off, giving the other two survivors that the killer did not manage to find during frenzy, a lot of time to do gens. 

    • Legion needs to be able to see survivors blood bubbles map wide upon frenzy hit
    • while mending, the timer should only slow down by 25% or 50% instead of stopping it entirely. 
    • Increase base movement speed to the default killer speed instead of that of a sleepy turtle, this way the power is not needed to navigate the map AT ALL TIMES. 
    • IF you aren’t going to change the base movement speed, increase fury’s regeneration rate significantly to compensate for this and make Legion effectively a reliable burst killer. 

    If none of these changes seem reasonable to you, then:

    • remove his terror radius entirely while not in frenzy. 

    • only remove scratch marks of survivors upon being struck during a frenzy

    • allow enduring to reduce the frenzy fatigue state duration. 

    So then you want a map wide BBQ and Chile aura reading perk upon hitting someone? So this means that stealth plays (Remember, stealth is the holy eucharist of 200IQ on these forums) are able to be countered every time someone is hit.

    You also want it so mending continuously decreases? So then if you are hit and left, and you start mending at 15-20 percent, you are still going to go down into the dying state. So it's essentially a killer that is faster than survivors in every way that then has an increased likelihood of just insta-downing you? Yea, no thanks.

    This was one of the worst killers they could've released. Either he's not good enough for 4k fantasies or he becomes every sweaty killer-mains wet dream and completely obliterates everyone in the game.

    Only thing I could get behind is the increased movement speed to 115.

    I'm starting to pick up that this person is a legion triggered survivor main...

    I think you’re crazy. I mean, there would have to be a lot of hypocrisy on his part to-



    Oh...



  • HellDescent
    HellDescent Member Posts: 4,883

    It's not an exploit. It's a poor design by the devs. While admitting that Freddy is weak and needs a buff, and then they release even weaker killer, justifying it by saying that not every killer should be viable.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,590

    @Speshul_Kitten said:
    Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:

    Blueberry said:

    Sounds reasonable and makes sense to me. Survivors needs a reason to heal against him, otherwise they all just stay injured and make him look stupid.

    I think making him a burst killer would be really fun and unique, but he feels like a gimmick right now and when the illusion of your power making a difference shatters, he just loses his appeal. He does basically nothing. 

    Yea, but would it be fun to play against. You realize people need to have fun to play a game and to continue to play it, right?

    With the changes he sounds pretty fun to play against to me.

    I read your posts. One of the most biased individuals on these forums. I most certainly don't respect your opinion or what you would consider "fun".

    I find that quite ironic since you were the one that asked me a question.

    Regardless, I am not biased at all, I play both sides at rank 1 regularly. However, I doubt you could say the same.

    Look who it is accusing people of not playing both sides. Sounds like you need to get put in your place again 🤨

    Oh you mean I need to put you in time out again?

    You already got taught a lesson that you didn't learn last time, let's not embarrass yourself more

  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    Ya’ll better quit arguing. Don’t want my thread closed because no one seems to be able to communicate without starting a wildfire. 
  • ShrimpTwiggs
    ShrimpTwiggs Member Posts: 1,181

    @Barron @DarkWo1f997

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,850

    Doing what the game intends or allows isn't an exploit. If someone used 3rd party software to allow them to instantly mend, that would be an exploit.

  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    DarkWo1f997 said:
    redsopine01 said:
    Or just allow his power to have exposed from iron maiden and noed
    WOAAAHHH NO NO NO NO too much! Too much! That wouldn’t be fun or fair. His deep wounds pressure is the only thing that I think definitively needs changing ASAP. 
    Lol this would change it 1 you need to hit all4 first 2 they must all either be wounded or in d's for it to work easily counters and create normal gp
  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @DarkWo1f997 said:

    I think you’re crazy. I mean, there would have to be a lot of hypocrisy on his part to-

    Oh...

    That was hawt and i had to give it an awesome, I just wish I could've given more awesomes for that.

  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Dreamnomad said:

    Doing what the game intends or allows isn't an exploit. If someone used 3rd party software to allow them to instantly mend, that would be an exploit.

    Unless they got a med kit and used it to heal others and used when they needed making it look like they had a Insta but doesn't but only shows at end game
  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Speshul_Kitten said:
    Blueberry said:

    @Speshul_Kitten said:
    Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:

    Blueberry said:

    Sounds reasonable and makes sense to me. Survivors needs a reason to heal against him, otherwise they all just stay injured and make him look stupid.

    I think making him a burst killer would be really fun and unique, but he feels like a gimmick right now and when the illusion of your power making a difference shatters, he just loses his appeal. He does basically nothing. 

    Yea, but would it be fun to play against. You realize people need to have fun to play a game and to continue to play it, right?

    With the changes he sounds pretty fun to play against to me.

    I read your posts. One of the most biased individuals on these forums. I most certainly don't respect your opinion or what you would consider "fun".

    I find that quite ironic since you were the one that asked me a question.

    Regardless, I am not biased at all, I play both sides at rank 1 regularly. However, I doubt you could say the same.

    Look who it is accusing people of not playing both sides. Sounds like you need to get put in your place again 🤨

    Oh you mean I need to put you in time out again?

    You already got taught a lesson that you didn't learn last time, let's not embarrass yourself more

    @Blueberry: I’ll just pretend to play both sides and diss people who have an opinion against killers, then I’ll make them show they play both sides to get away with it, since they won’t do it anyway.

    forum member: shows proof they play both sides

    @Blueberry :



    Grins look up redsopine1's live dbd game (I pay both and constantly live stream games just have 3 typo f13 games with dbd on them but I got proof there for you more killer but now doing more survivor to balance it out)
  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,614

    On a side note: Is this confirmed an exploit? Or was this an exaggeration to lure in readers?

  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Boss said:

    On a side note: Is this confirmed an exploit? Or was this an exaggeration to lure in readers?

    Currently it's the new ptb gimmick against the legion were he can't kill you with his power and if your hit twice it's a double stun so they never heal and stand right behind him mending as he looks for others
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    HellDescent said:

    It's not an exploit. It's a poor design by the devs. While admitting that Freddy is weak and needs a buff, and then they release even weaker killer, justifying it by saying that not every killer should be viable.

    An exploit doesn’t have to be a glitch, it can be players who take advantage of things they shouldn’t. In this case, possibly maybe bad game design, but I have to play him for myself to get a feel for where he is at. 

    I take the community feedback with a grain of sand, everyone had been saying pig is a mid tier killer, and I got her to rank 1 within just about two days. I was still brand new to the game as well then. As in 9 days into playing (not game time) by the time my pig was rank 1. 
  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,693

    @RSB said:

    @Barron said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @Barron said:

    @DarkWo1f997 said:
    Blueberry said:

    Sounds reasonable and makes sense to me. Survivors needs a reason to heal against him, otherwise they all just stay injured and make him look stupid.

    I think making him a burst killer would be really fun and unique, but he feels like a gimmick right now and when the illusion of your power making a difference shatters, he just loses his appeal. He does basically nothing. 

    Yea, but would it be fun to play against. You realize people need to have fun to play a game and to continue to play it, right?

    With the changes he sounds pretty fun to play against to me.

    I read your posts. One of the most biased individuals on these forums. I most certainly don't respect your opinion or what you would consider "fun".

    Says who? You?

    The first defender of all biased survivors and imbalance in this game? Give me a break, if you think someone here takes you seriously, then it is just hilarious.

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,614

    @redsopine01 said:
    Boss said:

    On a side note: Is this confirmed an exploit? Or was this an exaggeration to lure in readers?

    Currently it's the new ptb gimmick against the legion were he can't kill you with his power and if your hit twice it's a double stun so they never heal and stand right behind him mending as he looks for others

    Hmm, sounds more like the devs just didn't think it through.