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Could we please rework the challenges which basically read 'Throw the game'? Especially on survivor
You know the ones I'm talking about. Even in the dev comments during the event there was a comment about the 4 pallet stuns in one trial. These are not challenges. They are basically 'throw the game until you do x'.
If you want people to go out of their comfort zone and run certain perks or encourage different playstyles fine. Force them to use certain perks and escape but when you do the following it's basically throwing the game. Such challenges include but are not limited to...
- Cleanse totems. There is literally no reason to do this ever. No, not even for countering NoED because if you get 4, doesn't matter, noed still activates and now you don't know where it is (though that changes soon but all the more reason to not bother with totems). Inner Healing is an alright perk but it makes someone with a boon perk very sad. This challenge in many cases is throwing the game.
- Stun the killer with pallets. The fact the best way to do this one is to let the killer hit you and then stun them is throwing the game. If you try and stun them without it, it's dependent entirely on them 'falling' for it. Bonus points for ones that require you to stun the killer multiple times within the same trial.
- Drop pallets while in chase. While this can be helpful, many do it without strategy just to complete the challenge.
- Sniff the killers butt for x amount of time/be within 10 meters without being seen. Again literally no reason to do this.
- Complete 3/4 generators in one trial. Not strictly throwing but it leads to suboptimal gameplay if you are focused on finishing generators rather then playing optimally.
- Unlock chests. Very rarely is this helpful. At least these aren't normally attached to 'do this x amount of times in one trial' unlike most of these.
- Unhook a survivor who unhooked you earlier in the trial. More likely to occur through natural gameplay but because the order matters it encourages you to basically get hooked and hope THAT person gets hooked without someone else rescuing them.
Sure some of the challenges are boring but I think most people would take boring over asinine and throwing the game, especially when it means ruining the game for others. Save the really difficult things for achievements. Make challenges more general and less about throwing the game.
Edit: I should have clarified that I mostly refer to challenges which say 'do this in one trial'. Some of these are okay, especially if a thing you only need to do once but others not so much.
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These are supposed to be challenges. None of these things are impossible to do via normal gameplay. If you want to throw a game to guarantee you get it done instantly that's on you.
There are numerous scenarios in which you may stun a killer with a pallet, or drop a pallet in a chase, and have it be entirely a benefit to you.
Even hiding within 10m of the killer is a viable tactic, if you're lining up for a stealthy hook rescue.
The only one that's really problematic is the "Unhook a survivor who unhooked you earlier in the trial" one, and even that can happen naturally, eventually.
It's one of the saddest things about the community that there are players who think "there's never any point in cleansing totems or opening chests".
You don't like repairing gens, you don't like doing secondary objectives, you don't like using pallets in any way, It sounds like you'd prefer it if every challenge was just "click your flashlight 500 times in one match".
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Maybe I didn’t explain properly. Most of these are when you have to do it in one trial. The only one I take real issue with that isn’t one trial is totems. Chests are alright and do have some purpose because you can get stuff but totems do not and in some cases doing them is worse then useless. It actually harms your team. I agree it’s sad but it’s also true. Blame the game for that one.
Pallet stunning several times is fair enough across a number of games is fine but there’s several challenges that require you to stun the killer 2 or even 4 times in one trial.
Sure doing the 10m thing to rescue is viable but some require it for 60 seconds in one trial. There is no world where that is NOT throwing the game.
Do not straw man me though. Gens are obviously the main objective but when in one game you must do 3 or 4 of them, that’s silly. I’m okay with pallet stuns or anything other then totems honestly but don’t force me to do it x times in one game. Games don’t always work out like that and trying to force it is throwing,
I also never use a flashlight. What I want challenges to be is less focused on doing asinine objectives in one trial and more worked on over multiple games. Most of them do this but I guess I’m doing the older ones and that just got annoying because I kept facing killers who it’s unwise to pallet stun and I had to do it twice in one game and there’s one which requires it 4 times. Yeah two it’s not a tall order but it’s one completely out of my control unless I stand under a pallet, let myself get hit and stun them and then I feel bad I’m not playing the game properly.
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I certainly agree that there are some problematic challenges, but the only one of these that fits the bill is the last one. Maybe you mean specifically the variants of all of these where you have to do it all in one trial, which can be troublesome depending on which one it is, but even then not all of these are bad.
There's tons of reasons to cleanse totems and chests can be very useful- these challenges especially are actually healthy for the game, encouraging players to maybe try different perk builds to complete them. Maybe you'd never run Small Game or Plunderer's Instinct normally, but with these challenges to complete, maybe you'll give them another look...
Dropping pallets - even a set amount in one trial - just is normal gameplay. Players just throwing pallets to tick up progress as quickly as possible is a player issue, not a challenge issue.
There are some awful challenge designs in the tomes, the Blood Debt one especially, but these are the good ones you're listing up here.
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The problem with DBD challenges if the fact you can only do one at any given time. This means that you effectively forced to focus on that challenge until completed, which is bad design because many of the challenges are very specific will rarely come across naturally. Challenges like "drop 30 pallets." Playing normal DBD that's maybe 6-7 matches. Pretty easy but with so many challenges and some being legitimately tricky you will want to get through the grind challenges as fast as possible, so you throw pallets early, get the killers attention (ect). shortening it to maybe 2-3 matches These things can end up throwing a match and is very unfair for the other players.
The worst example ae challenges that involving hook saves. There are only ever a maximum of 6 unhooks available per match. Its simply not enough for those challenges to exist and so people resort to farming with BT. Or worse the break 20 totem challenges. With 5 totems per match, a minimum 4 match challenge, even longer if your teammates come across any totems at all.
challenges are great and can be really fun, but if they ever reach a point that other players are being negatively affected people attempting these challenges, then they are not well designed and need to be reworked.
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Yes. I really should have specified. Only the ones that specify 'Must be done in one trial'. I would much rather do a challenge that required me to stun the killer 10 times then one that says I must do it twice in one game.
Totems are the only ones im iffy on regardless because they are just useless. I did put chests there but eh, whatever I get they can be fun and I don't particularly hate those ones but sometimes I hear people yell at others for doing chests and I'm thinking 'could be a reason'.
Still a lot of people yell at other players for throwing the game when in reality they are just doing a challenge.
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I have no problems in throwing games for challenges.
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They're not useless at all. Inner Healing, Clairvoyance, Overzealous, and a few others all proc from cleansing dull totems; rather than being a pure time waster, totem-cleansing challenges are an encouragement to try looking at what tools you have available to make cleansing totems worth it.
Or, y'know, to counter NOED. After the upcoming change it'll actually be a decent tactic for doing that, though it isn't right now.
"Must be done in one trial" is definitely a caveat that gets used a little too liberally, but almost everything listed in the original post is fine for that at least some of the time. The only problematic one is the unhooking one, that one is really unfortunate-- even getting unhooks in general is a nasty one for doing "in one trial" since there's a strictly finite number of unhooks to get, possibly none if the killer is super unlucky.
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I mention both points in the initial post. With the exception of Clairvoyance, there's better options over those two things. If they want you to run certain perks just say that. Also it only counters Noed if you get all 5. Get 4 or less and Noed still activates and now you don't know where it is. You are better leaving them and not wasting time and coming back later to find the totems you know about once you know NoED is in play. Of course a moot point now.
Today's usual forum apathy I see. Well I actually care about other people I play with and don't want to ruin the game for them.
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It doesn't matter if they're the best options, it matters that they give you some kind of value. Rather than a challenge that forces you to specifically run one of those perks, a challenge that encourages (but does not require) running one or more is a much more elegant design. If you don't care about experimentation and just want to run the strongest stuff, you aren't locked out of the challenge, it's just more of a time-waster. More player choice, better design, at least imo.
Yes, right now it's a bad strat. With the upcoming change, it'll be a much more reliable one.
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God you must be a hella "fun" teammate to have around, omg. I'd dodge a lobby with you if I knew you were there.
Most of those challenges aren't even a tiniest problem, they can be done as a part of normal gameplay. You don't need to rush challenges that are not specified to be done in one trial, so cleansing totems or opening chests shouldn't even be there, just have them active in background and play games normally, they'll complete themselves eventually.
If you want to address "unnecessary" challenges, you should look at glyphs. Especially that people actually throw games for them. Yeah, they're fun side objective, but in some of them people will die to just do them.
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Man I'd delete this thread if I could now because of this one misunderstanding which I've clarified both in the edit and in several replies. It's the one trial part I have a problem with. Chests I should have removed but I more think that some people yell at team mates or complain here about others doing chests and say they are throwing the game when they are just doing challenges.
I care about my team mates and even if they do something silly I assume trials and leave it at that. Others on this place flame to death.
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