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I still think map gameplay design to this day is Dead by daylight #1 issue
Not Nurse or any other killer
Not SWF or survivor in general
Not perks, addons, or items
Its the maps:
Some are too strong for certain killers, Some are too strong for survivors, some are way too big some have too many pallets, others only have 3 pallets while the rest of the map is a complete dead zone, and so on....
Let's make up a pretty common scenarios we all probably dealt with at one point:
Imagine you wanna play some pretty basic killer like the Demogorgon, you join a lobby against some average team.
they probably gonna use some standard perks, someone maybe brings a item, 2 maybe even are a duo SWF. It seems chill.
You load in, and there it is..... You got the Gideon meat plant, and despite it number of changes it gone thru over the years, it still is a pretty miserable map.
You find a survivor early into the match, in the CCTV room with 2 ridiculous strong pallets.
You spent a good amount of time on this survivor but make barely any progress in the chase, what do you do, Switch target? But how could that help, you might get lucky and catch someone off guard, sure you injure them, but they will still have 6 safe pallets to work with back to back, and by the time you downed them 3 gens could have already popped
The match was already over before it started, at best you can down someone, camp them, and maybe get hook grabs or trades.
If only you played someone like Nurse, hell maybe Pyramid head or Artist, the game would definitely be different, but instead, u play an M1 killer and your power simply end up being used to destroy pallets after pallets until all gens pops and its gg.
Of course, you probably won a match before on a weak killer on a pretty bad map, but was it really cause you performed well, or cause the opposite side didn't was a pretty below-average team?
Here are some other short examples:
Bloodlodge as Ghostface? Enjoy being revealed nonstop
Lerys as Huntress? What you gonna do, chase them as 110% and throw a hatchet toward walls?
Play survivor on midwhich but the killer is a Nurse? She can straight up go from 1 part of the map to the other with only 2 blinks,
And then you have good old RPD. A fun experience for the whole family to enjoy!
I just wish BHVR would have stuck to a more simple formula in terms of map design, You can make maps look amazing visually and still design them well balanced-wise.
Imagine if all maps were maybe balanced like wrecked Yard or coal tower. You have a nice small building, a decent amount of areas to break line of sight as well a decent amount of area WITH line of sight.
Loops are well spread out, Gen is fairly spread out as well. No killers will have too much power or feel too weak, loops are chained but still interactive and have mind games potential for both sides, there is a good amount of cover for stealth killers (and survivors) to use for their advantage, and it doesn't take ages to walk from point A to point B when you as a killer have to pop the generator, or you as a survivor have to rescue a teammate from the hook, it's medium-sized, it's nice, it's simple and it's balanced!
TLDR: Too many maps have a lot of flaws in different ways, depending on who you play as, what role you play, or who you play against the map itself can dictate how the overall game will play out. my solution would be to balance maps and take a good look in what each map's main issue is
Comments
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To me the most fundamental issue with DbD is it is designed around midmatch player elimination. That is generally problematic because nobody likes being booted from a game while their friends keep playing. If they were making a sequel, I’d say they should make it so the killer gains a Ritual token whenever they hook a survivor or for every 60 seconds a dying or hooked survivor isn’t rescued, and then the killer wins if they collect 8-12 tokens. That would conpletely addred all the gripes about tunneling and camping. For instance, there’s no incentive to stay near a hook, you’re better off immediately going and finding other survivors to hook them some more. And there’s no incentive to ”tunnel” and hook a survivor two or three times in a row over a different survivor, hooking two people once is just as good in this set up as hooking one person twice. Not to mention with all four survivors potentially active the whole match there’s less of a huge momentum change when someone dies.
Would I miss Moris? Sure. But honestly I think that would be worth the benefits in a sequel.
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I think the core idea is that maps should have their strengths and weaknesses. Some stronger for survivors, some for killers. The opposite is also true ie Huntress on indoor maps vs Huntress on Autohaven maps.
You could look even deeper than map size, you could look at the randomness of maps and how some layouts are completely broken to the point of hopelessness if you aren't anti-loop, which is something that higher MMR survivors will use to their advantage and why M1 killers aren't exactly popular or seen in those areas. Obviously it would be easier to balance the game if maps were more similar in size and things were more static, but there's already so much variation that making them smaller will also affect balance quite a lot.
The main factor in all of this is time. How do all the small things affect the game as a whole? Toolboxes, map size, survivor spawn locations, a lot of things are overlooked. Of course adjusting map size means slow killer become stronger, and slow killers like Huntress would become very powerful, or higher tier killers like Nurse, and anti-loop killers. So, you see, it's more complicated
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Pretty much, if you play Hag she's only good on Midwich.
9/10 maps are awful.
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Who cares for maps as long as something like camping and tunnel is an issue? Gameflaws need to be adressed first, everything else comes afterwards.
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Yeah well good luck with that broseph
Why do you think people feel the need to camp or tunnel?
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Camping and tunneling will always be a thing, devs already stated they won't make those strats impossible entirely, they will simply discourage it.
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Do you not grasp that on certain maps where a low/no mobility killer is losing on a massive map might turn to camping to put pressure on survivors? Map balance will alway be an issue when it comes to camping or even tunneling.
A ghost face on the snow map (forgot the name) isnt going to be that effective trying to hide behind snow banks for stealth. So they may turn to camping or just proxy camping when they finally get a hook.
And anyone who has played RPD for more than 5 minutes knows that if you leave a hook on RPD, you might never see that survivor ever again.
Map balance affect game behaviour.
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Good job you read the thread, oh wait.
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They buffed those issues. Pretty good job so far.
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Tunneling and camping is not reasonable. People do it cause its possible, the easiest "play", and gives a guarantee to kills. And it annoys players. Its not an issue of any other game designs. Thise players dont care what killer or what map. That's why it's a flaw and needs to be fixed first. Unless the basic game mechanics are flawed like this, changing anything else is just bad development. You see that with this patch. It just gets way worse for everyone caused by the chain reaction those flaws create.
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A lot of the map issues come about from out of control RNG on tile spawns. It does bring variety to the maps, but the RNG needs more oversight. There are so many busted RNG combinations that lead to nearly automatic losses if the survivors are good. You can't have a long wall jungle gym-safe pallet-shack window spawn on Eyrie of Crows. That just can't be a thing. I wish I had taken a screenshot when I saw it because half the killer roster wasn't getting a down at that set up against a high MMR survivor.
Father Campbell's is another example. You can't have the chapel god window spawn facing an L/T set up. That just can't happen in high MMR play. It's completely broken in the hands of a good survivor. You need to pay attention to these things because it's a huge balance issue.
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Take your own advice. And think about it before next time pls.
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I agree with map balance, but for different reasons. The reasons you listed are more pros for map variety. The issue lies with some maps having multiple pallets that have no counterplay to them, pallets where you are forced to break the pallet and cannot mindgame anything about ir, regardless the killer you play (Ignoring obvious outliers here haha)
Edited: Then on top of that, being able to chain those tiles, pallets, together with other loops to save the god pallet.
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If the maps were designed better killers wouldn't feel the need to tunnel and camp.
Midwich is a nicely sized map and it flows and there isn't really a need to camp.
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It's not a reason of cause and effect. How often needs this to be explained?
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Bruh, if people are going to do that, they are going to do it, map balance be damned.
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######### thank you. If it doesnt have a million pallets I actually get a 4k most times but that ######### changes quickly when I get meat plant with god pallets every corner
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maps needs to be tweaked often and tweaked quickly because that is biggest factor for matches, it's taking too long for each changes.
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Agreed. Map rng is the №1 of the outcome in the match.
(PSICHE! From nurse and hag mains)
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Regardless of your personal opinion on camping, when other game balances make killers who wouldn't normally camp start camping, it legitimises those who use it to win without thought.
Yes, there will always be people who camp for ab easy kill or two. But how do you fix that? You can't stop them from doing it. Base kit kindred won't stop them, pausing the hook timer will be absurd by clever players. No matter how you look at it, it will happen.
What I'm m trying to say is that by ensuring that a killer doesn't feel they have to camp, it will lessen it. It will never go away and someone who is determined will do it regardless. Being facecamping my insidious bubba is obviously a death. Being camped by ghost face in my example is due to map issues. But when you're on the hook, it feels the same. It's not the same root cause. One is because they can, the other is because they feel they have to. Camping does not exist in vacuum. It is caused by those who don't care, of those who are losing and want to give some pressure to a losing game.
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Nah, it's not just about maps. If you fix maps Nurse would still be broken just because she ignores everything.
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You seriously think people would stop camping and tunneling if maps or whatever were better. Literally as long as it works and gets people kills, killers will camp and tunnel no matter what. You could literally have the most balanced map in the world against a squad of nothing but solo players each having no perks or items and people would still camp and tunnel.
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imo some maps are bad for some killers and thats fine. I have no problem with huntress being worse on indoor maps.
Some maps though, like Gideon meat plant and the like, are pretty horrible for killers overall (unless you are nurse lmao)
so i agree, I think some maps needs gameplay adjustments
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And? Devs clearly do not balance the whole game around Nurse, so I fail to see how these 2 are even remotely related.
Balance the maps, balance the game, then balance the rest from there, Nurse is not needed to be a top priority of changes especially as she is an unbalanced thing in an unbalanced game, balance the game, then balance her.
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No she doesn't.
Wish survivors would stop using this excuse now.
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as a nurse main, she literally does.
Don't use it as an excuse. She ignores windows, pallets, loops, different floors and heights, proxymity needed to call it camping, DS, travel times and even the exit gates.
Nurse does not play dead by daylight, she plays the nurse game. Completely different playstyle, completely different "counter", completely different usage of perks (suddenly aura reading and exposed will just lose you the game instead of down you).
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Lmao okay Mr private profile, keep writing that you're a nurse main all you want, no she doesn't.
If a survivor knows what they are doing they can force nurse to get stuck at windows with her auto aim, same with pallets.
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