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Hatch Design Concept

Auksinis
Auksinis Member Posts: 6
in Feedback and Suggestions

So, I definitely noticed people were unsatisfied with the requirements for the hatch, most notably the standoff, and I have an idea that should remove the need for a standoff with minimal effect on the rest of the game.

-Killers can no longer grab survivors from the hatch animation.
-Survivors cannot interact with the hatch for a short period of time after being hit equal to an amount of time longer than the killer's successful hit cooldown.

Under these conditions, the winner would be whoever acted first, rather than last. Much should go unchanged, except players would feel more rewarded for active initiative, and there would no longer be a standoff for victory.

Comments

  • JanTheMan
    JanTheMan Member Posts: 495
    edited December 2018

    Still doesn't fix the issue where the survivor can camp the hatch and wait for the last survivor to be sacrificed, until it opens... The killer has no power over the situation unless they slug, which is looked down upon.

  • Auksinis
    Auksinis Member Posts: 6
    edited December 2018

    @JanTheMan said:
    Still doesn't fix the issue where the survivor can camp the hatch and wait for the last survivor to be sacrificed, until it opens... The killer has no power over the situation unless the slug, with is looked down upon.

    True, but at that point the survivor has found the hatch first. My idea was meant to counter hatch standoff and the concept of how taking action causes your opponent to win, which is unsatisfying. My idea is NOT intended to prevent all scenarios where the survivor can win via hatch, because I don't think it needs to be. However, thank you for your feedback.

  • JanTheMan
    JanTheMan Member Posts: 495
    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:
    Still doesn't fix the issue where the survivor can camp the hatch and wait for the last survivor to be sacrificed, until it opens... The killer has no power over the situation unless the slug, with is looked down upon.

    True, but at that point the survivor has found the hatch first. My idea was meant to counter hatch standoff and the concept of how taking action causes your opponent to win, which is unsatisfying. My idea is NOT intended to prevent all scenarios where the survivor can win via hatch, because I don't think it needs to be. However, thank you for your feedback.

    Yeah, your idea is a nice hot fix. Doesn't address the bigger issue however.
  • Auksinis
    Auksinis Member Posts: 6

    @JanTheMan said:
    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:

    Still doesn't fix the issue where the survivor can camp the hatch and wait for the last survivor to be sacrificed, until it opens... The killer has no power over the situation unless the slug, with is looked down upon.

    True, but at that point the survivor has found the hatch first. My idea was meant to counter hatch standoff and the concept of how taking action causes your opponent to win, which is unsatisfying. My idea is NOT intended to prevent all scenarios where the survivor can win via hatch, because I don't think it needs to be. However, thank you for your feedback.

    Yeah, your idea is a nice hot fix. Doesn't address the bigger issue however.

    I believe it does, but that seems to be a difference on what we believe the big issue is. Would you mind telling me what you believe the big issue with the hatch is, so that I may understand where we differ in opinion?

  • JanTheMan
    JanTheMan Member Posts: 495
    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:
    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:

    Still doesn't fix the issue where the survivor can camp the hatch and wait for the last survivor to be sacrificed, until it opens... The killer has no power over the situation unless the slug, with is looked down upon.

    True, but at that point the survivor has found the hatch first. My idea was meant to counter hatch standoff and the concept of how taking action causes your opponent to win, which is unsatisfying. My idea is NOT intended to prevent all scenarios where the survivor can win via hatch, because I don't think it needs to be. However, thank you for your feedback.

    Yeah, your idea is a nice hot fix. Doesn't address the bigger issue however.

    I believe it does, but that seems to be a difference on what we believe the big issue is. Would you mind telling me what you believe the big issue with the hatch is, so that I may understand where we differ in opinion?

    As of now the only way a killer a guarantee a 4k is by slugging the second to last survivor (I don't think this was indented) and of course this isn't fun either. A new hatch system would prevent this issue.
  • Auksinis
    Auksinis Member Posts: 6

    @JanTheMan said:
    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:

    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:

Still doesn't fix the issue where the survivor can camp the hatch and wait for the last survivor to be sacrificed, until it opens... The killer has no power over the situation unless the slug, with is looked down upon.



True, but at that point the survivor has found the hatch first. My idea was meant to counter hatch standoff and the concept of how taking action causes your opponent to win, which is unsatisfying. My idea is NOT intended to prevent all scenarios where the survivor can win via hatch, because I don't think it needs to be. However, thank you for your feedback.

    Yeah, your idea is a nice hot fix. Doesn't address the bigger issue however.

    I believe it does, but that seems to be a difference on what we believe the big issue is. Would you mind telling me what you believe the big issue with the hatch is, so that I may understand where we differ in opinion?

    As of now the only way a killer a guarantee a 4k is by slugging the second to last survivor (I don't think this was indented) and of course this isn't fun either. A new hatch system would prevent this issue.

    Ok, so if I'm getting this right, you believe the big issue with hatch is that killers counter it by slugging a different survivor, and the lack of fun for that slugged survivor is the big issue that needs fixed? I want to make sure this is accurate before continuing my point.

  • JanTheMan
    JanTheMan Member Posts: 495
    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:
    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:

    Auksinis said:

    @JanTheMan said:

Still doesn't fix the issue where the survivor can camp the hatch and wait for the last survivor to be sacrificed, until it opens... The killer has no power over the situation unless the slug, with is looked down upon.



True, but at that point the survivor has found the hatch first. My idea was meant to counter hatch standoff and the concept of how taking action causes your opponent to win, which is unsatisfying. My idea is NOT intended to prevent all scenarios where the survivor can win via hatch, because I don't think it needs to be. However, thank you for your feedback.

    Yeah, your idea is a nice hot fix. Doesn't address the bigger issue however.

    I believe it does, but that seems to be a difference on what we believe the big issue is. Would you mind telling me what you believe the big issue with the hatch is, so that I may understand where we differ in opinion?

    As of now the only way a killer a guarantee a 4k is by slugging the second to last survivor (I don't think this was indented) and of course this isn't fun either. A new hatch system would prevent this issue.

    Ok, so if I'm getting this right, you believe the big issue with hatch is that killers counter it by slugging a different survivor, and the lack of fun for that slugged survivor is the big issue that needs fixed? I want to make sure this is accurate before continuing my point.

    Yes, I agree.
  • Auksinis
    Auksinis Member Posts: 6

    Ok, so I still disagree with that being the big problem with hatch and I will explain why.

    Slugging is a concept that killers use for several situations, many of which don't even involve the hatch, and whether it does or not it is still unfun for the slugged survivor. Now, for slugging itself, there are already a few counters, such as No Mither (yes, I understand nobody wants to run it, but technically it is a counter to slugging) and Unbreakable, options which I would highly suggest to any survivor who has issues with slugging.

    A far as hatch based slugging goes, there are actually strategy options that can be utilized based on the killers choices. If the survivors play smart into strategy, the slug can move away from the hatch if possible (possibility is due to knowledge of hatch location), and the killer is faced with a choice, guard the slug or find the hatch/other survivor. Based on his choice, the survivor has options, such as heal the slug/work on a gen close to the hatch, respectively.

    Yes, the killer can just guard the slug without hooking them, but the killer gets nowhere, and this is borderline griefing at this point. I can see where many people can see this as frustrating, but ultimately, I believe this is a general slugging issue, and is not the real issue with the hatch, and therefore should not be the basis for any fix for the hatch.

  • TragicSolitude
    TragicSolitude Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 7,347

    @Auksinis said:
    So, I definitely noticed people were unsatisfied with the requirements for the hatch, most notably the standoff, and I have an idea that should remove the need for a standoff with minimal effect on the rest of the game.

    -Killers can no longer grab survivors from the hatch animation.
    -Survivors cannot interact with the hatch for a short period of time after being hit equal to an amount of time longer than the killer's successful hit cooldown.

    Under these conditions, the winner would be whoever acted first, rather than last. Much should go unchanged, except players would feel more rewarded for active initiative, and there would no longer be a standoff for victory.

    I agree with the second suggestion. I mentioned in a different thread that something like that should be done. (A second after a survivor is hit, the entity blocks off the hatch for a few seconds. This way, if they're hit mid-jump, they still escape, but they can't escape if they're hit before they start the jump.)

    I'm not sure about taking away the killer's ability to grab a survivor, though. I don't think a survivor should ever feel safe until they've actually escaped.

  • vVNootnootVv
    vVNootnootVv Member Posts: 34

    Right now, if both the survivor and killer know where the hatch is, the survivor will ALWAYS win, unless he is stupid. The hatch mechanic is fine if you are a survivor, but very frustrating for killers. The only way for killers to kill every survivor is to: 1) prevent the survivors from repairing more than 1 generator (which is impossible or 2) leave the second-last survivor on the ground and hunt the last survivor.

    What I am trying to say is that the hatch mechanic should be adapted so that it is possible for killers to kill the last survivor too and that it is still possible for the last survivor to escape with the hatch

  • Auksinis
    Auksinis Member Posts: 6

    @TragicSolitude said:

    @Auksinis said:
    So, I definitely noticed people were unsatisfied with the requirements for the hatch, most notably the standoff, and I have an idea that should remove the need for a standoff with minimal effect on the rest of the game.

    -Killers can no longer grab survivors from the hatch animation.
    -Survivors cannot interact with the hatch for a short period of time after being hit equal to an amount of time longer than the killer's successful hit cooldown.

    Under these conditions, the winner would be whoever acted first, rather than last. Much should go unchanged, except players would feel more rewarded for active initiative, and there would no longer be a standoff for victory.

    I agree with the second suggestion. I mentioned in a different thread that something like that should be done. (A second after a survivor is hit, the entity blocks off the hatch for a few seconds. This way, if they're hit mid-jump, they still escape, but they can't escape if they're hit before they start the jump.)

    I'm not sure about taking away the killer's ability to grab a survivor, though. I don't think a survivor should ever feel safe until they've actually escaped.

    I believe both are necessary for proper balancing. With the second feature, the killer gains advantage by taking initiative, but then we will see issue with survivors not being able to capitalize on the hatch by utilizing the initiative, thus, I include the first feature to ensure both sides win by being the first to act. While I understand your reasoning, I believe that statistics will show that if we only implement from this is the second half, then the hatch will be unreliable for it's currently intended purpose.

    @vVNootnootVv said:
    Right now, if both the survivor and killer know where the hatch is, the survivor will ALWAYS win, unless he is stupid. The hatch mechanic is fine if you are a survivor, but very frustrating for killers. The only way for killers to kill every survivor is to: 1) prevent the survivors from repairing more than 1 generator (which is impossible or 2) leave the second-last survivor on the ground and hunt the last survivor.

    What I am trying to say is that the hatch mechanic should be adapted so that it is possible for killers to kill the last survivor too and that it is still possible for the last survivor to escape with the hatch

    This is the precise reason I suggest these exact changes, that way the one who holds the power over the hatch is the one who makes the first action.