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D Strike and Noed.

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Comments

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
    will_i_am_14_85 said:

    Cleanse the F'ing Totems! Seriously, there is no need to complain about NOED when you can completely render the perk useless through normal gameplay.

    DS is a 'get out of jail free' card, with rewards survivors and punishes killers

    That's not exactly fair, there have been times where I'm the only survivor cleansing totems. When you're the only survivor doing the job of 3 other survivors then things can get pretty difficult.
  • Victory
    Victory Member Posts: 166

    I find it amusing that DS is still on the superficial for killers to whine about. I made a list of 20 ways to help deal with/completely ruin the perk. Decisive Strike Counters
    1. Dribble
    2. High floor drop (causing survivors to take the drop down recovery)
    3. body block them into an enclosed corner
    4. Enduring
    5. Literally just taking the DS early on in the match
    6. Unnerving
    7. Doctor
    8. Swing (Sometimes it causes the ds to not work, most likely a bug, but it is there)
    9. Shaking your head
    10. Slugging
    11. Clown gas before pick up
    12. Forcing survivors to ds you into trap on trapper
    13. Bamboozle
    14. Nurse
    15. Mori
    16. Iron Grasp to an extent
    17. Mad Grit
    18. Agitation
    19. Huntress' Lullaby
    20. Rancor
    I know, killers really hate having to optimize in order to counter a perk, but a perk should counter a perk. If a perk is your issue, why don't you have to use a perk that counters it? The logic that ive seen in this thread that "I shouldn't have to bring a perk to counter a perk" I've seen people saying makes no sense and very flawed logic, it makes me think if this is the 1st online competitive game you guys have played. Even certain killers ruin the perk, and if a survivor lands an unerving shaky skillcheck with lullaby? They 100% earn to get out then. Lets talk about noed, 1. 10s to cleanse each totem, 5 totems, thats 50 seconds total which evens out to be 12.5s of extra time for the killer alone, not counting the TIME it takes to run around and find a totem to cleanse it, etc, etc. NOED is a very stupid-strong perk that killers just put on and get use from the start of the game, there is no counterplay to noed like people insist, its a free win, really, it is.

  • Madjura
    Madjura Member Posts: 2,442

    @Victory said:
    I find it amusing that DS is still on the superficial for killers to whine about. I made a list of 20 ways to help deal with/completely ruin the perk. Decisive Strike Counters
    [redacted due to size]

    1, 2, 3 are situational and don't work in a lot of situations

    4 (Enduring) helps a little bit but it's not good enough to be run in every build, even if you knew every survivor always had DS

    5 Is wrong on so many levels. You can't guarantee that you will find the obsession early. Waiting out the wiggle timer on non-obsession survivors early to make them use DS is so much worse than hooking them. You can't force survivors to use DS, they can choose to save it for later.

    6 Crap perk, doesn't work as often as it should, even if every survivor always had DS it would still be trash

    7, 11, 12, 14 is again just a terrible suggestion. You shouldn't have to play a specific killer just to deal with a single perk. And none of the killers listed can even deal with DS in a signifcant enough way.

    8 Timing is extremely precise, doesn't work the vast majority of the time.

    9 Doesn't work

    10 Terrible strategy unless you run specific builds, even then a terrible strategy.

    13 No

    15 Limited resource, you still have to hook survivors at least once

    16, 17, 18, 19, 20 I guess you ran out of ideas around number 8. Here you are listing terrible perks that if you try really, really hard you can find a way to argue that they counter DS. They are still dreadful perks though and again, even if every survivor always had DS they would still be terrible (mostly because they don't counter DS at all).

    there is no counterplay to noed like people insist, its a free win, really, it is.

    You made a list of 20 things of which the vast majority aren't counters to DS and the few that are are so situational that they almost never work. And then you claim that NOED, which can be countered in every single game, by every single survivor, always, without the use of an item or a perk has no counter? Really?

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    Victory said:

    I find it amusing that DS is still on the superficial for killers to whine about. I made a list of 20 ways to help deal with/completely ruin the perk. Decisive Strike Counters
    1. Dribble
    2. High floor drop (causing survivors to take the drop down recovery)
    3. body block them into an enclosed corner
    4. Enduring
    5. Literally just taking the DS early on in the match
    6. Unnerving
    7. Doctor
    8. Swing (Sometimes it causes the ds to not work, most likely a bug, but it is there)
    9. Shaking your head
    10. Slugging
    11. Clown gas before pick up
    12. Forcing survivors to ds you into trap on trapper
    13. Bamboozle
    14. Nurse
    15. Mori
    16. Iron Grasp to an extent
    17. Mad Grit
    18. Agitation
    19. Huntress' Lullaby
    20. Rancor
    I know, killers really hate having to optimize in order to counter a perk, but a perk should counter a perk. If a perk is your issue, why don't you have to use a perk that counters it? The logic that ive seen in this thread that "I shouldn't have to bring a perk to counter a perk" I've seen people saying makes no sense and very flawed logic, it makes me think if this is the 1st online competitive game you guys have played. Even certain killers ruin the perk, and if a survivor lands an unerving shaky skillcheck with lullaby? They 100% earn to get out then. Lets talk about noed, 1. 10s to cleanse each totem, 5 totems, thats 50 seconds total which evens out to be 12.5s of extra time for the killer alone, not counting the TIME it takes to run around and find a totem to cleanse it, etc, etc. NOED is a very stupid-strong perk that killers just put on and get use from the start of the game, there is no counterplay to noed like people insist, its a free win, really, it is.

    Lmao at this list of counters.

    Some of them like high drops and bamboozle are so damn situational that it's ridiculous you would even list them. How often does the survivor go down right in the perfect location? If you don't have Enduring drops dont even work, they can still get away, and this isn't even taking into account balanced landing.

    Nurse/clown....yeah great news for the other 12 killers in the game. "Just stick with 2 killers guyz!!". Clowns bottles dont even work against it without Enduring fyi.

    Mori? Yup I'll be sure to bring one of those every single game

    Rancor? Worthless perk. Most killers try to win before the gens are done. Good luck actually finding the obsession once the fens are done though, considering you get a ping of 4 survivor locations while they get a full aura read. The obsession goes full stealth at this point. Apparantantly Rancor needed the aura read as a negative to balance it....god knows why every perk needs a counter or downside EXCEPT for decisive strike. One of the nost powerful perks in the game and no downside. Even Deliverance has a broken effect and it's nowhere near as powerful as DS.

    Huntress lullaby? Totem perk, worthless.

    Mad grit? Ok now I know you're trolling

    Shaking your head? We've all tried it, doesn't work against most survivors. I mean this is how pathetic the situation is, we're reduced to spinning our mouse and hoping and wishing the guy on the other end fails a skill check. ######### garbage game design.

    Eating it early? Yeah dont bother trying to put pressure on surviors, just throw the game to take care of Mr D-strike.


    The only ways to reliably deal with it are dribbling, which wastes time, gives other survivors a chance to interrupt with a flashlight, bodyblock or instaheal, and is dependent on there being a hook within a very short range.

    The only other way is taking Enduring and throwing them down the basement stairs or something, which again is extremely situational.

    Its easily one of the single most powerful perks in the entire game given the damage it can cause to the other side yet has absolutely no downside. It's broken beyond belief. A team with 4 of them is basically the equivalent to a killer taking an ebony mori.
  • Cardgrey
    Cardgrey Member Posts: 1,454

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @will_i_am_14_85 said:
    Cleanse the F'ing Totems! Seriously, there is no need to complain about NOED when you can completely render the perk useless through normal gameplay.

    DS is a 'get out of jail free' card, with rewards survivors and punishes killers

    Use Ruin and NOED. Tunnel and camp the first survivor while the others do gens. It is impossible for 3 survivors to do 5 gens and 5 totems before the guy dies. When NOED procs find another one. One shot them and camp. You just pipped without doing a damn thing worth pipping. And the survivors have no options but to 1) gen rush or 2) attempt a save. Both cases you win. Stop saying to cleanse totems when it's mathematically impossible with 3 survivors. If the others go do totems they won't be doing gens, which means the killer will have a chance to catch and camp another person before end game. Basically if they DO NOT gen rush they all die.

    Umm u should be doing gens regardless. More often then not it takes me around 20 or so seconds to find someone.. I personally don’t use noed I feel it’s too weak to deserve a slot.(it assumes your getting 5 gens done lol)
    My wraiths build is nurses, discordance, ruin, iron grasp and I end up with around 3 kills some times 2 or 4 but normally 3. Point being u should always rush....
    Also if people would work thou gens instead of wandering around looking for ruin would go faster. If u see a totem break it not hard.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @Tsulan said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    Adrenaline doesn't have a totem. But yeah it pretty much is. I would nerf the sprint burst to 3 seconds rather then 5 and that's all the nerfs it needs to be honest.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    Tsulan said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 
    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @The_Crusader said:
    Tsulan said:


    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

    Remove the health buff and keep the sprint burst you get then?

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    @The_Crusader said:
    Tsulan said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 
    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.
    If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.
    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.
  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    Tsulan said:


    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

    Remove the health buff and keep the sprint burst you get then?

    That would work yes. Hell you could probs buff it to 5 seconds if needed.

    If DS and Adrenaline go I feel Noed should go too. If noed goes then ds and adrenaline need to go. All 3 support each other lol

    But for me DS is the worst, by a wide margin.
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @The_Crusader said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    Tsulan said:

    Poweas said:

@The_Crusader said:

I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.



Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.



Mhh... now that I think about it...

    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

    Remove the health buff and keep the sprint burst you get then?

    That would work yes. Hell you could probs buff it to 5 seconds if needed.

    If DS and Adrenaline go I feel Noed should go too. If noed goes then ds and adrenaline need to go. All 3 support each other lol

    But for me DS is the worst, by a wide margin.

    Yeah me too. But I will not lie and say that I find NOED fair as survivor or that I find Adrenaline fair as killer. Since I just play Billy now because the other killers except Clown and Bubba feel too easy (no offense to Spirit she's difficult but not playable atm because of scratch marks being bugged) I need to git gud with looping and when people get an adrenaline on me, I cri everytim lol.

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    Tsulan said:

    Poweas said:

@The_Crusader said:

I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.



Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.



Mhh... now that I think about it...

    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

    Remove the health buff and keep the sprint burst you get then?

    That would work yes. Hell you could probs buff it to 5 seconds if needed.

    If DS and Adrenaline go I feel Noed should go too. If noed goes then ds and adrenaline need to go. All 3 support each other lol

    But for me DS is the worst, by a wide margin.

    Yeah me too. But I will not lie and say that I find NOED fair as survivor or that I find Adrenaline fair as killer. Since I just play Billy now because the other killers except Clown and Bubba feel too easy (no offense to Spirit she's difficult but not playable atm because of scratch marks being bugged) I need to git gud with looping and when people get an adrenaline on me, I cri everytim lol.

    The thing that bugs me about NOED is how it enables campers.

    I'd rather have it only activate if the killer has moved x metres and been in a chase for a certsin amount of time.

    This way at least itnwould reward noob players who made an effort but got looped all game by a deranked experienced survivor, but it wouldnt activate for those who just sat next to a hook until 1 survivor was dead.
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @The_Crusader said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

Tsulan said:

    Poweas said: @The_Crusader said: I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't. Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time. Mhh... now that I think about it...

    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter. If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out. Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.



Remove the health buff and keep the sprint burst you get then?



That would work yes. Hell you could probs buff it to 5 seconds if needed.

If DS and Adrenaline go I feel Noed should go too. If noed goes then ds and adrenaline need to go. All 3 support each other lol

    But for me DS is the worst, by a wide margin.

    Yeah me too. But I will not lie and say that I find NOED fair as survivor or that I find Adrenaline fair as killer. Since I just play Billy now because the other killers except Clown and Bubba feel too easy (no offense to Spirit she's difficult but not playable atm because of scratch marks being bugged) I need to git gud with looping and when people get an adrenaline on me, I cri everytim lol.

    The thing that bugs me about NOED is how it enables campers.

    I'd rather have it only activate if the killer has moved x metres and been in a chase for a certsin amount of time.

    This way at least itnwould reward noob players who made an effort but got looped all game by a deranked experienced survivor, but it wouldnt activate for those who just sat next to a hook until 1 survivor was dead.

    That would probably be an amazing idea actually. Because some killers get looped for ages. Take my billy for example ;)

  • Demonsouls1993
    Demonsouls1993 Member Posts: 261
    Just delete both out of the game
  • Victory
    Victory Member Posts: 166

    @The_Crusader said:
    Victory said:

    I find it amusing that DS is still on the superficial for killers to whine about. I made a list of 20 ways to help deal with/completely ruin the perk. Decisive Strike Counters

    1. Dribble

    2. High floor drop (causing survivors to take the drop down recovery)

    3. body block them into an enclosed corner

    4. Enduring

    5. Literally just taking the DS early on in the match

    6. Unnerving

    7. Doctor

    8. Swing (Sometimes it causes the ds to not work, most likely a bug, but it is there)

    9. Shaking your head

    10. Slugging

    11. Clown gas before pick up

    12. Forcing survivors to ds you into trap on trapper

    13. Bamboozle

    14. Nurse

    15. Mori

    16. Iron Grasp to an extent

    17. Mad Grit

    18. Agitation

    19. Huntress' Lullaby

    20. Rancor

    I know, killers really hate having to optimize in order to counter a perk, but a perk should counter a perk. If a perk is your issue, why don't you have to use a perk that counters it? The logic that ive seen in this thread that "I shouldn't have to bring a perk to counter a perk" I've seen people saying makes no sense and very flawed logic, it makes me think if this is the 1st online competitive game you guys have played. Even certain killers ruin the perk, and if a survivor lands an unerving shaky skillcheck with lullaby? They 100% earn to get out then. Lets talk about noed, 1. 10s to cleanse each totem, 5 totems, thats 50 seconds total which evens out to be 12.5s of extra time for the killer alone, not counting the TIME it takes to run around and find a totem to cleanse it, etc, etc. NOED is a very stupid-strong perk that killers just put on and get use from the start of the game, there is no counterplay to noed like people insist, its a free win, really, it is.

    Lmao at this list of counters.

    Some of them like high drops and bamboozle are so damn situational that it's ridiculous you would even list them. How often does the survivor go down right in the perfect location? If you don't have Enduring drops dont even work, they can still get away, and this isn't even taking into account balanced landing.

    Nurse/clown....yeah great news for the other 12 killers in the game. "Just stick with 2 killers guyz!!". Clowns bottles dont even work against it without Enduring fyi.

    Mori? Yup I'll be sure to bring one of those every single game

    Rancor? Worthless perk. Most killers try to win before the gens are done. Good luck actually finding the obsession once the fens are done though, considering you get a ping of 4 survivor locations while they get a full aura read. The obsession goes full stealth at this point. Apparantantly Rancor needed the aura read as a negative to balance it....god knows why every perk needs a counter or downside EXCEPT for decisive strike. One of the nost powerful perks in the game and no downside. Even Deliverance has a broken effect and it's nowhere near as powerful as DS.

    Huntress lullaby? Totem perk, worthless.

    Mad grit? Ok now I know you're trolling

    Shaking your head? We've all tried it, doesn't work against most survivors. I mean this is how pathetic the situation is, we're reduced to spinning our mouse and hoping and wishing the guy on the other end fails a skill check. [BAD WORD] garbage game design.

    Eating it early? Yeah dont bother trying to put pressure on surviors, just throw the game to take care of Mr D-strike.

    The only ways to reliably deal with it are dribbling, which wastes time, gives other survivors a chance to interrupt with a flashlight, bodyblock or instaheal, and is dependent on there being a hook within a very short range.

    The only other way is taking Enduring and throwing them down the basement stairs or something, which again is extremely situational.

    Its easily one of the single most powerful perks in the entire game given the damage it can cause to the other side yet has absolutely no downside. It's broken beyond belief. A team with 4 of them is basically the equivalent to a killer taking an ebony mori.

    HA! I've hoped you'd respond to this. Lets see, mad grit actually counters all the latter DS's you'll have to go through, same with IG/AG. Totem perks are SITUATIONAL, not worthless. Also, I mentioned the killers because a lot of the people who seem to legit whine about DS all the time seem to not care enough to actively counter it and isntead want to whine, I play literally all killers except doctor and clown funny enough, and DS has never been my problem because enduring makes it so worthless. Same goes to mori, all you ever do is whine instead of solve, so I gave people who aren't problem solvers a list of ways to deal with this "crutch"." Lmao" at your poor attempts to problem solve and rather come to the forums and whine about everything in this game. Next thing Im going to see you post is that survivors can run and thats "OP". Sorry you have to work for kills instead of being handed kills like food, please play survivor as well instead of whining all the time. Winter party starters ARE SO OP!!!!!!!!! REEEEE! insert entitled survivor main comment here.

  • Grim
    Grim Member Posts: 250
    edited January 2019

    Another day, another NOED/DS thread.

    NOED is fine and can be completely nullified before the killer can even use it. Whole perk slot for nothing. It's not rocket science to cleanse all the totems lol. And what's more, is that the survivors control when it might even activate.

    DS is also fine because DS is not the issue. It's the underlying problem it makes worse. And that is time. Killers simply don't have enough time if survivors know how to do gens efficiently. Factor in DS and that's even more time wasted. If killers had more time to chase and down survivors, a 2nd-chance perk as strong as DS wouldn't be as big a deal.

  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @Grim said:
    Another day, another NOED/DS thread.

    NOED is fine and can be completely nullified before the killer can even use it. Whole perk slot for nothing. It's not rocket science to cleanse all the totems lol. And what's more, is that the survivors control when it might even activate.

    DS is also fine because DS is not the issue. It's the underlying problem it makes worse. And that is time. Killers simply don't have enough time if survivors know how to do gens efficiently. Factor in DS and that's even more time wasted. If killers had more time to chase and down survivors, a 2nd-chance perk as strong as DS wouldn't be as big a deal.

    Nah, they're both cancer and need to be gone.

  • Well_Placed_HexTotem
    Well_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 824
    I don’t get why people say both perks reward “bad” gameplay. It’s not easy to go an entire match without being seen, and once you’re seen by a killer, unless they’re doodoo, they’re going to catch you. The only question is how long before they catch you. And this can come down to RNG. If you don’t have any pallets or vaults at your disposal, it’s hard to lose a killer or extend a chase. So going down is not always “bad gameplay”.

    The problem with dstrike, is again, depending on RNG, it can completely change a match and the killer has zero counter to it, aside from simply slugging the obsession, which is not optimal. Plenty of maps give the survivors enough safe pallets and junctions to loop a killer for an easy 2 gens, sometimes more. So you can finally get this survivor down after a 2-3 gen chase and you can either try to hook that survivor to actually be rewarded for that extremely long chase, or you can just slug them and get nothing. Of course, trying to hook them opens you up to dstrike, which just extends a chase that already took way too long. Add even more time if they’re running an exhaustion perk as well, which many dstrike users do. It’s a broken perk because as the game is currently designed it gives one side way too large of an advantage. But it doesn’t just reward “bad play”. It’s used by tons of great survivors to run killers for most of the match. That’s broken gameplay, but not “bad”.

    NOED also doesn’t reward killers for bad play. End game builds do exist. You can run a terrific end game perk that requires all of the gens to be done and still be a good killer. You’re simply preying on the survivors mentality of rushing the gens. Furthermore, you’re sacrificing a perk slot for the chance at that perk activating. A lot of people complain that NOED rewards killers who couldn’t stop the gens from being done... well maybe if they took NOED out and put on BS or Enduring or Pop or something else they’d have stopped the gens? 

    But the counter to NOED is so mind numbingly simple... cleanse totems brehs.
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
    I don’t get why people say both perks reward “bad” gameplay. It’s not easy to go an entire match without being seen, and once you’re seen by a killer, unless they’re doodoo, they’re going to catch you. The only question is how long before they catch you. And this can come down to RNG. If you don’t have any pallets or vaults at your disposal, it’s hard to lose a killer or extend a chase. So going down is not always “bad gameplay”.

    The problem with dstrike, is again, depending on RNG, it can completely change a match and the killer has zero counter to it, aside from simply slugging the obsession, which is not optimal. Plenty of maps give the survivors enough safe pallets and junctions to loop a killer for an easy 2 gens, sometimes more. So you can finally get this survivor down after a 2-3 gen chase and you can either try to hook that survivor to actually be rewarded for that extremely long chase, or you can just slug them and get nothing. Of course, trying to hook them opens you up to dstrike, which just extends a chase that already took way too long. Add even more time if they’re running an exhaustion perk as well, which many dstrike users do. It’s a broken perk because as the game is currently designed it gives one side way too large of an advantage. But it doesn’t just reward “bad play”. It’s used by tons of great survivors to run killers for most of the match. That’s broken gameplay, but not “bad”.

    NOED also doesn’t reward killers for bad play. End game builds do exist. You can run a terrific end game perk that requires all of the gens to be done and still be a good killer. You’re simply preying on the survivors mentality of rushing the gens. Furthermore, you’re sacrificing a perk slot for the chance at that perk activating. A lot of people complain that NOED rewards killers who couldn’t stop the gens from being done... well maybe if they took NOED out and put on BS or Enduring or Pop or something else they’d have stopped the gens? 

    But the counter to NOED is so mind numbingly simple... cleanse totems brehs.

    PGTW slows down the game, brutal strength and enduring does nothing to slow down the game. I'm trying to suggest reworks for these perks that will make them less hated. I don't care about their counters. I just want a way to balance them so they're not overpowered.

  • M2Fream
    M2Fream Member Posts: 288
    Vietfox said:
    @The_Crusader said:
    Tsulan said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 
    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.
    If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.
    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.
    If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @M2Fream said:
    Vietfox said:


    @The_Crusader said:


    Tsulan said:


    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

    If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.
    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.

    If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?

    Honestly, yes the killer is to blame. They have so much perks to delay the game and one of them is a free perk (sloppy butcher) so if they let survivors get to end game without managing to 4 man then they are to blame since every killer can stall a game for long enough to 4 man.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    edited January 2019
    M2Fream said:
    Vietfox said:
    @The_Crusader said:
    Tsulan said:
    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 
    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.
    If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.
    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.
    If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?
    @M2Fream
    Was about to reply you but i see @Poweas was faster than me.
    If there are 1 or 2 survivors alive by the end of the match then fine, killer did something at least, but if there are 4 alive that means killer did a really bad job, that's why i say i blame the killer.
  • M2Fream
    M2Fream Member Posts: 288
    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:
    Vietfox said:


    @The_Crusader said:


    Tsulan said:


    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

    If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.
    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.

    If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?

    Honestly, yes the killer is to blame. They have so much perks to delay the game and one of them is a free perk (sloppy butcher) so if they let survivors get to end game without managing to 4 men then they are to blame since every killer can stall a game for long enough to 4 men.

    Oh, they can? Tell me that the 4 ft hag can hobble around at 110% speed and protect her game stalling perks.
    Ruin? Gone in 30s
    Huntress Lullaby? Gone in 30s
    TOTH: Gone in 30s

    Meanwhile, survivors have ACTUALL tools to slow down the killer.
    Pallets
    DS
    SB
    DH
    BL
    Near Infinite Windows
    Sabotage hooks
    Bodyblocking
    Flashlight saves
    Instamedkit saves
    Pallet saves
  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    M2Fream said:
    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:
    Vietfox said:


    @The_Crusader said:


    Tsulan said:


    Poweas said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.

    Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.

    Mhh... now that I think about it...
    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

    I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

    If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

    Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

    I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

    If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.
    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.

    If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?

    Honestly, yes the killer is to blame. They have so much perks to delay the game and one of them is a free perk (sloppy butcher) so if they let survivors get to end game without managing to 4 men then they are to blame since every killer can stall a game for long enough to 4 men.

    Oh, they can? Tell me that the 4 ft hag can hobble around at 110% speed and protect her game stalling perks.
    Ruin? Gone in 30s
    Huntress Lullaby? Gone in 30s
    TOTH: Gone in 30s

    Meanwhile, survivors have ACTUALL tools to slow down the killer.
    Pallets
    DS
    SB
    DH
    BL
    Near Infinite Windows
    Sabotage hooks
    Bodyblocking
    Flashlight saves
    Instamedkit saves
    Pallet saves
    @M2Fream
    Are you really gonna use the hag as example? Because i main her (as i proved to you a few days ago) and survivors almost never manage to get the 5th gen (honestly i dont even remember the last time they finished all 5 gens). I get 3K AT LEAST with her because i don't bother on slugging to get 4K.
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873
    edited January 2019

    @M2Fream said:
    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:

    Vietfox said:

    @The_Crusader  said:



Tsulan said:



Poweas said:

@The_Crusader said:

I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.



Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.



Mhh... now that I think about it...

    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.

    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.

    If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?

    Honestly, yes the killer is to blame. They have so much perks to delay the game and one of them is a free perk (sloppy butcher) so if they let survivors get to end game without managing to 4 men then they are to blame since every killer can stall a game for long enough to 4 men.

    Oh, they can? Tell me that the 4 ft hag can hobble around at 110% speed and protect her game stalling perks.
    Ruin? Gone in 30s
    Huntress Lullaby? Gone in 30s
    TOTH: Gone in 30s

    Meanwhile, survivors have ACTUALL tools to slow down the killer.
    Pallets
    DS
    SB
    DH
    BL
    Near Infinite Windows
    Sabotage hooks
    Bodyblocking
    Flashlight saves
    Instamedkit saves
    Pallet saves

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. This guy is definitely new. You made me fall off my chair thats how hard I laughed. Please don't post a joke like that again I could have snapped my neck.

    Hag is the one of the few killers who can recover from having no perks. Let me tell you something sunshine, Hag is the best killer at slowing down a game because of her ability to spread pain across the map and she's also the best killer at injuring 3 people and downing 1 guy. (About 1/3 of my Hag games I can injure 3 survivors and down 1 in the space of 10 seconds because of how good my trapping placements are). You must SERIOUSLY be joking if you think she's weak. Her movespeed doesn't even matter.

    She's the 3rd best killer by a longshot. Nurse>>Billy>Hag>>>>>>>>>Spirit. That's the 4 top tier killers. The 4 who have viable bases which means they don't need perks or addons to 4 man at rank 1 and that's the 4 killers everyone knows are strong. So you are obviously new if you think Hag is weak.

    Also she can shut down Pallets,
    She counters DS with strong trap predictions,
    Sprint burst is a joke since they'll probably run into her traps,
    Dead hard won't do much since she'll catch you,
    Balanced landing is easy to shut down by trapping the dropdowns,
    Infinite windows are a piece of cake for Hag,
    If you sabo hooks, she can slug just as well as Billy and she'll let you bleed (seriously Hag players are pretty savage and let u bleed out),
    Bodyblocking is an advantage to Hag since it slows the game down,
    Flashlight saves are a piece of cake since as Hag it's extra easy to bait them out,
    Instaheal won't do much, chances are, you'll run into a good Hag's traps,
    Pallet saves are so easy to bait too since you just have to press the place a trap button and they'll think ur picking the guy up.

    I am a Hag main at rank 4 and I 4 man 4 gens all the time @Vietfox it looks like I'm not as effective as you lol. So you're kidding if you think she's weak. She has a really high skillcap (pretty much the same as Nurse) but if you learn her, sunshine, then she's a monster. Btw to 4 man 4 gens consistently is really hard in case you didn't know. I don't play Hag much but I always win. (To win for me is to get at least 3 kills. 2 kills is a draw to me)

    Honestly you gave me a good laugh but saying Hag is weak and unable to 4 man with no perks is the most funny thing I've heard from this forums in a long time.

  • XxAtomicAlfiexX
    XxAtomicAlfiexX Member Posts: 395

    noed is mostly fine and can be destroyed before its even in use. i have had a game where i had no kills before the last gen was done but then ended up with a 3k because of noed. noed didn't directly get me the last kill but it got me the ability to hook the survivor which the last one went to save, noed got broken and the 4th surv left leaving 1 dead and 2 still alive but when i caught the last one they panicked and ditched the hooked surv for the exit but i caught and killed them before they could get out. if those/that survivor(s) would have left i would only have got 1 or 2 kills, noed only helped but wasn't a main factor and only got me the second kill directly because surv 1 was inured and it got broken before i got the last one.

  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @M2Fream said:
    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:

    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:

Vietfox said:

    @The_Crusader said: Tsulan said: Poweas said: @The_Crusader said: I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't. Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time. Mhh... now that I think about it...

    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter. If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out. Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well. I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going. If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.

    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.

If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?



Honestly, yes the killer is to blame. They have so much perks to delay the game and one of them is a free perk (sloppy butcher) so if they let survivors get to end game without managing to 4 men then they are to blame since every killer can stall a game for long enough to 4 men.



Oh, they can? Tell me that the 4 ft hag can hobble around at 110% speed and protect her game stalling perks.

    Ruin? Gone in 30s

    Huntress Lullaby? Gone in 30s

    TOTH: Gone in 30s

    Meanwhile, survivors have ACTUALL tools to slow down the killer.

    Pallets

    DS

    SB

    DH

    BL

    Near Infinite Windows

    Sabotage hooks

    Bodyblocking

    Flashlight saves

    Instamedkit saves

    Pallet saves

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. This guy is definitely new. You made me fall off my chair thats how hard I laughed. Please don't post a joke like that again I could have snapped my neck.

    Hag is the one of the few killers who can recover from having no perks. Let me tell you something sunshine, Hag is the best killer at slowing down a game because of her ability to spread pain across the map and she's also the best killer at injuring 3 people and downing 1 guy. (About 1/3 of my Hag games I can injure 3 survivors and down 1 in the space of 10 seconds because of how good my trapping placements are). You must SERIOUSLY be joking if you think she's weak. Her movespeed doesn't even matter.

    She's the 3rd best killer by a longshot. Nurse>>Billy>Hag>>>>>>>>>Spirit. That's the 4 top tier killers. The 4 who have viable bases which means they don't need perks or addons to 4 man at rank 1 and that's the 4 killers everyone knows are strong. So you are obviously new if you think Hag is weak.

    Also she can shut down Pallets,

    She counters DS with strong trap predictions,

    Sprint burst is a joke since they'll probably run into her traps,

    Dead hard won't do much since she'll catch you,

    Balanced landing is easy to shut down by trapping the dropdowns,

    Infinite windows are a piece of cake for Hag,

    If you sabo hooks, she can slug just as well as Billy and she'll let you bleed (seriously Hag players are pretty savage and let u bleed out),

    Bodyblocking is an advantage to Hag since it slows the game down,

    Flashlight saves are a piece of cake since as Hag it's extra easy to bait them out,

    Instaheal won't do much, chances are, you'll run into a good Hag's traps,

    Pallet saves are so easy to bait too since you just have to press the place a trap button and they'll think ur picking the guy up.

    I am a Hag main at rank 4 and I 4 man 4 gens all the time @Vietfox it looks like I'm not as effective as you lol. So you're kidding if you think she's weak. She has a really high skillcap (pretty much the same as Nurse) but if you learn her, sunshine, then she's a monster. Btw to 4 man 4 gens consistently is really hard in case you didn't know. I don't play Hag much but I always win. (To win for me is to get at least 3 kills. 2 kills is a draw to me)

    Honestly you gave me a good laugh but saying Hag is weak and unable to 4 man with no perks is the most funny thing I've heard from this forums in a long time.

    Sorry  Sunshine  but as much as you and vietfox want to circlejerk each other about how hard you think survivors have it, it's not true. Everybody else knows that a 110% speed killer is NEVER going to be top tier. If hag is so damn good, then why isn't every other thread here saying nerf hag? Because she's not that good. I know you just want to pretend that DS and SC aren't a problem and that the game is balanced, but the majority of the community will tell you otherwise. The killer is the power roll. He shouldn't be able to be stopped by a slab of wood and a 90lbs survivor rapidly crouching and clicking a dollar tree flashlight in his face.

    Well sorry to you sunshine I never said survivors have it hard. I know killers have it harder. Hag is top tier because of obvious reasons. Spirit is top tier with 110% MS btw. And after their buffs, Legion will be top tier.

    You think self care is a problem then you're obviously new, it hurts the survivor more then the killer and it got nerfed recently. How can a teabagger stop a killer, you can still hit them.

    Also ######### is a circlejerk? I'm English so that isn't even used here explain what it means to me.

    If you can't see the strength of top tier 110% killers like Hag and Spirit then you are not an experienced player since even reasonable people like @Orion and @powerbats agree that Hag and Spirit are top tier.

    DS is a massive problem though that's the only think I'll agree with you on since the rest of your arguement is just lies.

    Nobody wants Hag nerfed in the same way there's not a lot of threads wanting Nurse or Billy nerfed, because people know that they're strong as hell but not overpowered like an instadown Legion who needed 1 hit to down you or Spirit with no cooldown.

  • Vietfox
    Vietfox Member Posts: 3,823
    edited January 2019
    M2Fream said:
    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:
    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:

    Vietfox said:

    @The_Crusader  said:



Tsulan said:



Poweas said:

@The_Crusader said:

I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't.



Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time.



Mhh... now that I think about it...

    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol

I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter.

If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out.

Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well.

I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going.

If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.

    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.

    If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?

    Honestly, yes the killer is to blame. They have so much perks to delay the game and one of them is a free perk (sloppy butcher) so if they let survivors get to end game without managing to 4 men then they are to blame since every killer can stall a game for long enough to 4 men.

    Oh, they can? Tell me that the 4 ft hag can hobble around at 110% speed and protect her game stalling perks.
    Ruin? Gone in 30s
    Huntress Lullaby? Gone in 30s
    TOTH: Gone in 30s

    Meanwhile, survivors have ACTUALL tools to slow down the killer.
    Pallets
    DS
    SB
    DH
    BL
    Near Infinite Windows
    Sabotage hooks
    Bodyblocking
    Flashlight saves
    Instamedkit saves
    Pallet saves

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. This guy is definitely new. You made me fall off my chair thats how hard I laughed. Please don't post a joke like that again I could have snapped my neck.

    Hag is the one of the few killers who can recover from having no perks. Let me tell you something sunshine, Hag is the best killer at slowing down a game because of her ability to spread pain across the map and she's also the best killer at injuring 3 people and downing 1 guy. (About 1/3 of my Hag games I can injure 3 survivors and down 1 in the space of 10 seconds because of how good my trapping placements are). You must SERIOUSLY be joking if you think she's weak. Her movespeed doesn't even matter.

    She's the 3rd best killer by a longshot. Nurse>>Billy>Hag>>>>>>>>>Spirit. That's the 4 top tier killers. The 4 who have viable bases which means they don't need perks or addons to 4 man at rank 1 and that's the 4 killers everyone knows are strong. So you are obviously new if you think Hag is weak.

    Also she can shut down Pallets,
    She counters DS with strong trap predictions,
    Sprint burst is a joke since they'll probably run into her traps,
    Dead hard won't do much since she'll catch you,
    Balanced landing is easy to shut down by trapping the dropdowns,
    Infinite windows are a piece of cake for Hag,
    If you sabo hooks, she can slug just as well as Billy and she'll let you bleed (seriously Hag players are pretty savage and let u bleed out),
    Bodyblocking is an advantage to Hag since it slows the game down,
    Flashlight saves are a piece of cake since as Hag it's extra easy to bait them out,
    Instaheal won't do much, chances are, you'll run into a good Hag's traps,
    Pallet saves are so easy to bait too since you just have to press the place a trap button and they'll think ur picking the guy up.

    I am a Hag main at rank 4 and I 4 man 4 gens all the time @Vietfox it looks like I'm not as effective as you lol. So you're kidding if you think she's weak. She has a really high skillcap (pretty much the same as Nurse) but if you learn her, sunshine, then she's a monster. Btw to 4 man 4 gens consistently is really hard in case you didn't know. I don't play Hag much but I always win. (To win for me is to get at least 3 kills. 2 kills is a draw to me)

    Honestly you gave me a good laugh but saying Hag is weak and unable to 4 man with no perks is the most funny thing I've heard from this forums in a long time.

    Sorry  Sunshine  but as much as you and vietfox want to circlejerk each other about how hard you think survivors have it, it's not true. Everybody else knows that a 110% speed killer is NEVER going to be top tier. If hag is so damn good, then why isn't every other thread here saying nerf hag? Because she's not that good. I know you just want to pretend that DS and SC aren't a problem and that the game is balanced, but the majority of the community will tell you otherwise. The killer is the power roll. He shouldn't be able to be stopped by a slab of wood and a 90lbs survivor rapidly crouching and clicking a dollar tree flashlight in his face.

    Edit: sorry you didnt snap your neck.Would have been an improvement for the community.
    @M2Fream
    If you think that the quality of a killer relies only on their speed then you don't know how to play as a killer.
    Hag is slower and i don't think i need to explain why.
    I'm curious, what are your ranks as both killer and survivor and for how long have you been playing this game? Because i'm pretty sure not a single experienced player would determine how good is a killer by their speed.
    Btw, i never said survivors have it hard, but neither do killers. (well, some do, but i've already said they should get a buff)
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @Vietfox said:
    M2Fream said:


    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:

    Poweas said:

    @M2Fream said:

Vietfox said:

    @The_Crusader said: Tsulan said: Poweas said: @The_Crusader said: I actually think NOED needs a buff. It's not fair that it can be countered when DS and Adrenaline can't. Adrenaline isn't that bad, it doesn't get in use half the time. Mhh... now that I think about it...

    Adrenaline is the survivors version of NOED. But reversed. NOED halves the amount of hit required to down a survivor. While adrenaline doubles the amount. 

    For once we agree lol I mean you could argue NOED is more powerful because its not a 1 time use like adrenaline, but the fact is if all survivors gain an instaheal end game when there is 20 seconds remaining how on earth is any killer outside of those with instadowns meant to counter that? NOED is the only counter. If the one that you're chasing gains a health boost and a speed burst it can easily buy the team the time needed to open both exit gates and then the rest can bodyblock so they make it out. Something like haunted grounds would be long gone by then. MYC useless at that time as well. I don't think Noed can go without adrenaline going. If all 4 survivors gain the instaheal from adrenaline i blame the killer, honestly.

    Noed can stay as well, i've never had any issue with that perk either.

If all 4 survivors equip a perk and collectively hold M1 for 400 seconds and that somehow heals them you blame the killer? Are you ok?



Honestly, yes the killer is to blame. They have so much perks to delay the game and one of them is a free perk (sloppy butcher) so if they let survivors get to end game without managing to 4 men then they are to blame since every killer can stall a game for long enough to 4 men.



Oh, they can? Tell me that the 4 ft hag can hobble around at 110% speed and protect her game stalling perks.

    Ruin? Gone in 30s

    Huntress Lullaby? Gone in 30s

    TOTH: Gone in 30s

    Meanwhile, survivors have ACTUALL tools to slow down the killer.

    Pallets

    DS

    SB

    DH

    BL

    Near Infinite Windows

    Sabotage hooks

    Bodyblocking

    Flashlight saves

    Instamedkit saves

    Pallet saves

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. This guy is definitely new. You made me fall off my chair thats how hard I laughed. Please don't post a joke like that again I could have snapped my neck.

    Hag is the one of the few killers who can recover from having no perks. Let me tell you something sunshine, Hag is the best killer at slowing down a game because of her ability to spread pain across the map and she's also the best killer at injuring 3 people and downing 1 guy. (About 1/3 of my Hag games I can injure 3 survivors and down 1 in the space of 10 seconds because of how good my trapping placements are). You must SERIOUSLY be joking if you think she's weak. Her movespeed doesn't even matter.

    She's the 3rd best killer by a longshot. Nurse>>Billy>Hag>>>>>>>>>Spirit. That's the 4 top tier killers. The 4 who have viable bases which means they don't need perks or addons to 4 man at rank 1 and that's the 4 killers everyone knows are strong. So you are obviously new if you think Hag is weak.

    Also she can shut down Pallets,

    She counters DS with strong trap predictions,

    Sprint burst is a joke since they'll probably run into her traps,

    Dead hard won't do much since she'll catch you,

    Balanced landing is easy to shut down by trapping the dropdowns,

    Infinite windows are a piece of cake for Hag,

    If you sabo hooks, she can slug just as well as Billy and she'll let you bleed (seriously Hag players are pretty savage and let u bleed out),

    Bodyblocking is an advantage to Hag since it slows the game down,

    Flashlight saves are a piece of cake since as Hag it's extra easy to bait them out,

    Instaheal won't do much, chances are, you'll run into a good Hag's traps,

    Pallet saves are so easy to bait too since you just have to press the place a trap button and they'll think ur picking the guy up.

    I am a Hag main at rank 4 and I 4 man 4 gens all the time @Vietfox it looks like I'm not as effective as you lol. So you're kidding if you think she's weak. She has a really high skillcap (pretty much the same as Nurse) but if you learn her, sunshine, then she's a monster. Btw to 4 man 4 gens consistently is really hard in case you didn't know. I don't play Hag much but I always win. (To win for me is to get at least 3 kills. 2 kills is a draw to me)

    Honestly you gave me a good laugh but saying Hag is weak and unable to 4 man with no perks is the most funny thing I've heard from this forums in a long time.

    Sorry  Sunshine  but as much as you and vietfox want to circlejerk each other about how hard you think survivors have it, it's not true. Everybody else knows that a 110% speed killer is NEVER going to be top tier. If hag is so damn good, then why isn't every other thread here saying nerf hag? Because she's not that good. I know you just want to pretend that DS and SC aren't a problem and that the game is balanced, but the majority of the community will tell you otherwise. The killer is the power roll. He shouldn't be able to be stopped by a slab of wood and a 90lbs survivor rapidly crouching and clicking a dollar tree flashlight in his face.

    Edit: sorry you didnt snap your neck.Would have been an improvement for the community.

    @M2Fream
    If you think that the quality of a killer relies only on their speed then you don't know how to play as a killer.
    Hag is slower and i don't think i need to explain why.
    I'm curious, what are your ranks as both killer and survivor and for how long have you been playing this game? Because i'm pretty sure not a single experienced player would determine how good is a killer by their speed.

    He's got about 100 hours by my estimation. Btw I think we triggered him he said he wants me to snap my neck lol.

  • Well_Placed_HexTotem
    Well_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 824
    Poweas said:

    @Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
    I don’t get why people say both perks reward “bad” gameplay. It’s not easy to go an entire match without being seen, and once you’re seen by a killer, unless they’re doodoo, they’re going to catch you. The only question is how long before they catch you. And this can come down to RNG. If you don’t have any pallets or vaults at your disposal, it’s hard to lose a killer or extend a chase. So going down is not always “bad gameplay”.

    The problem with dstrike, is again, depending on RNG, it can completely change a match and the killer has zero counter to it, aside from simply slugging the obsession, which is not optimal. Plenty of maps give the survivors enough safe pallets and junctions to loop a killer for an easy 2 gens, sometimes more. So you can finally get this survivor down after a 2-3 gen chase and you can either try to hook that survivor to actually be rewarded for that extremely long chase, or you can just slug them and get nothing. Of course, trying to hook them opens you up to dstrike, which just extends a chase that already took way too long. Add even more time if they’re running an exhaustion perk as well, which many dstrike users do. It’s a broken perk because as the game is currently designed it gives one side way too large of an advantage. But it doesn’t just reward “bad play”. It’s used by tons of great survivors to run killers for most of the match. That’s broken gameplay, but not “bad”.

    NOED also doesn’t reward killers for bad play. End game builds do exist. You can run a terrific end game perk that requires all of the gens to be done and still be a good killer. You’re simply preying on the survivors mentality of rushing the gens. Furthermore, you’re sacrificing a perk slot for the chance at that perk activating. A lot of people complain that NOED rewards killers who couldn’t stop the gens from being done... well maybe if they took NOED out and put on BS or Enduring or Pop or something else they’d have stopped the gens? 

    But the counter to NOED is so mind numbingly simple... cleanse totems brehs.

    PGTW slows down the game, brutal strength and enduring does nothing to slow down the game. I'm trying to suggest reworks for these perks that will make them less hated. I don't care about their counters. I just want a way to balance them so they're not overpowered.

    BS and Enduring allow you to end chases faster, putting you back on gen patrol, which can slow the game down.
  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
    Poweas said:

    @Well_Placed_HexTotem said:

    I don’t get why people say both perks reward “bad” gameplay. It’s not easy to go an entire match without being seen, and once you’re seen by a killer, unless they’re doodoo, they’re going to catch you. The only question is how long before they catch you. And this can come down to RNG. If you don’t have any pallets or vaults at your disposal, it’s hard to lose a killer or extend a chase. So going down is not always “bad gameplay”.

    The problem with dstrike, is again, depending on RNG, it can completely change a match and the killer has zero counter to it, aside from simply slugging the obsession, which is not optimal. Plenty of maps give the survivors enough safe pallets and junctions to loop a killer for an easy 2 gens, sometimes more. So you can finally get this survivor down after a 2-3 gen chase and you can either try to hook that survivor to actually be rewarded for that extremely long chase, or you can just slug them and get nothing. Of course, trying to hook them opens you up to dstrike, which just extends a chase that already took way too long. Add even more time if they’re running an exhaustion perk as well, which many dstrike users do. It’s a broken perk because as the game is currently designed it gives one side way too large of an advantage. But it doesn’t just reward “bad play”. It’s used by tons of great survivors to run killers for most of the match. That’s broken gameplay, but not “bad”.

NOED also doesn’t reward killers for bad play. End game builds do exist. You can run a terrific end game perk that requires all of the gens to be done and still be a good killer. You’re simply preying on the survivors mentality of rushing the gens. Furthermore, you’re sacrificing a perk slot for the chance at that perk activating. A lot of people complain that NOED rewards killers who couldn’t stop the gens from being done... well maybe if they took NOED out and put on BS or Enduring or Pop or something else they’d have stopped the gens? 

    But the counter to NOED is so mind numbingly simple... cleanse totems brehs.

    PGTW slows down the game, brutal strength and enduring does nothing to slow down the game. I'm trying to suggest reworks for these perks that will make them less hated. I don't care about their counters. I just want a way to balance them so they're not overpowered.

    BS and Enduring allow you to end chases faster, putting you back on gen patrol, which can slow the game down.

    Oh right forgot. Enduring does but brutal strength makes little to no difference.

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,223
    edited January 2019

    All of the slow killers are top tier (except for Legion that's debatable right now).

    Nurse - Best killer in the game. No one will every deny this.

    Hag - 3rd/4th best after Nurse and Billy. Her map pressure is probably the best in the game. She's weaker in a chase but only if the chase is in an area where she has no traps.

    Spirit - 3rd/4th best after Nurse and Billy. Tied with Hag basically. She has less map pressure but her chase game is INSANE, better than even the Nurse IMO. You have to basically guess what she's doing in phase walk. Against a good Nurse you just have to be squirrelly enough to make it harder for her to land a blink (not saying that's easy, but she's the one having to guess not you).

    Huntress - 5th best after all the other slow killers and Billy. In fact this is the only ACTUAL slow killer because she has no way to traverse the map faster. But she is the most deadly in a chase (more than Nurse/Spirit if you factor pink hatchets or aura perks) and in the basement (best basement game because she can eat through BT and down all 4 survivors while also blocking them in). Being the only killer with a projectile makes her very strong, the only reason she's not the best in the game is because she is a slow killer AND because as good as a projectile is, it doesn't beat teleporting through walls at will (Nurse).

    Legion has potential to be top/high tier but I'm not sure yet where they stand. It mostly comes down to the add-ons. Using purple add-ons Legion is super strong, but weak otherwise. I'm half-expecting a rework in the future though. I'm pretty sure some of the issues that have popped up with him the devs didn't see coming, which happens I don't fault them.

  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @thesuicidefox said:
    All of the slow killers are top tier (except for Legion that's debatable right now).

    Nurse - Best killer in the game. No one will every deny this.

    Hag - 3rd/4th best after Nurse and Billy. Her map pressure is probably the best in the game. She's weaker in a chase but only if the chase is in an area where she has no traps.

    Spirit - 3rd/4th best after Nurse and Billy. Tied with Hag basically. She has less map pressure but her chase game is INSANE, better than even the Nurse IMO. You have to basically guess what she's doing in phase walk. Against a good Nurse you just have to be squirrelly enough to make it harder for her to land a blink (not saying that's easy, but she's the one having to guess not you).

    Huntress - 5th best after all the other slow killers and Billy. In fact this is the only ACTUAL slow killer because she has no way to traverse the map faster. But she is the most deadly in a chase (more than Nurse/Spirit if you factor pink hatchets or aura perks) and in the basement (best basement game because she can eat through BT and down all 4 survivors while also blocking them in). Being the only killer with a projectile makes her very strong, the only reason she's not the best in the game is because she is a slow killer AND because as good as a projectile is, it doesn't beat teleporting through walls at will (Nurse).

    Legion has potential to be top/high tier but I'm not sure yet where they stand. It mostly comes down to the add-ons. Using purple add-ons Legion is super strong, but weak otherwise. I'm half-expecting a rework in the future though. I'm pretty sure some of the issues that have popped up with him the devs didn't see coming, which happens I don't fault them.

    Couldn't agree more. I'd put Myers above Huntress and put mid tier before Myers. Because top tier has to be more strict because back when Pig was a newish killer, she was top tier after Myers it used to be Nurse, Billy, Huntress, Myers and Pig but so many killers have got buffed and now Pig is 3rd/4th worst. That's a massive jump. It shows how people have to be a little more strict because if we were as lenient as we were back then, then pretty much every killer except Legion, Freddy and Doctor would be top tier lol.

  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    Shows how you don't need nerfs to drop down the tierlist lol.

  • Grim
    Grim Member Posts: 250
    edited January 2019

    @Poweas said:

    @Grim said:
    Another day, another NOED/DS thread.

    NOED is fine and can be completely nullified before the killer can even use it. Whole perk slot for nothing. It's not rocket science to cleanse all the totems lol. And what's more, is that the survivors control when it might even activate.

    DS is also fine because DS is not the issue. It's the underlying problem it makes worse. And that is time. Killers simply don't have enough time if survivors know how to do gens efficiently. Factor in DS and that's even more time wasted. If killers had more time to chase and down survivors, a 2nd-chance perk as strong as DS wouldn't be as big a deal.

    Nah, they're both cancer and need to be gone.

    Nah. They're certainly both annoying, but just because they're annoying doesn't mean they should go.

  • xXNurseXx
    xXNurseXx Member Posts: 261

    serious question: why do you guys complain about the perks?

    dstrike saves them like .. 10 secs (including my stunning time)? who cares i will just blink 2 more times and down them again.

    and why would i use noed its a waste of a perk slot. i never ever come in the late game anyways. i have more troubles finding the last standing survivor hiding while another one is bleeding out so the last one cant get the hatch so tell me a good reason why i should leave whispers, shadowborn, nurse calling or bbq at home while using a perk which never activates?

  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @xXNurseXx said:
    serious question: why do you guys complain about the perks?

    dstrike saves them like .. 10 secs (including my stunning time)? who cares i will just blink 2 more times and down them again.

    and why would i use noed its a waste of a perk slot. i never ever come in the late game anyways. i have more troubles finding the last standing survivor hiding while another one is bleeding out so the last one cant get the hatch so tell me a good reason why i should leave whispers, shadowborn, nurse calling or bbq at home while using a perk which never activates?

    It hurts other killers. Nurse shrugs it off.