Gen speed is ridiculous
Here's a game with no gen defense. Spoiler alert : there are 4 generators done in 2 minutes and 22 seconds.
There is one copy of the perk Prove Thyself to speed up gens (zero toolboxes).
The author raises interesting questions (which I might add were also asked in 2016 on the steam forums and never answered).
How many hooks are there on average when one generator is completed? What about two through five generators?
Can we see these statistics please?
Can you please gather data to look at when hooks happen vs when gens get completed? I suspect you will see a trend in games that shows that killers camp more often when gens are completed very quickly at the start of a game.
Comments
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I always skip to the end of these because he always 4Ks on these matches that he complains about gens being done too fast.
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Do you think you would genuinely have had fun if you were playing killer and lost 4 generators after 2:22?
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I honestly wouldn't care, some games I 4K with no gens done, some games I 4K with the exit gates open, people focus far too much on a gen being done honestly.
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3min50secs after update
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The outcome of the game in terms of kills/escapes is not a good measuring spot for how much fun you had.
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When I play dbd I don't suddenly get sad and have no fun when a survivor goes down, in turn I also don't get sad and stop having fun because a generator gets done.
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Consider two different game flow paths:
1) There are lots of chases and the generators are slow.
2) The generators are fast and there is lots of camping.
Which path sounds more fun as a survivor?
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Why do you suddenly care about survivor fun?
Whenever people talk about this killers (and survivors alike) usually say "It isn't my job to make sure your game is fun" but now you're trying to use the argument that slow gens + lots of chases is better because "survivors will have fun", on the flipside, the most complained killer is nurse, someone who is incredibly fast at chases and ends games quickly, or legion, who drags games out to be 15+ minutes sometimes. It's ridiculous, a gen pops I carry on the chase why do I care if a gen pops, now or in 5 minutes as long as I'm getting decent chases it doesn't matter to me as the match isn't over yet.
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The most commong game path is rather
3) The generators are slow and there is lots of camping
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The gen speed is not the issue, it's the lack of other objectives :) Im sure that both we as a community and the devs can figure out other objectives to slow down games but also not make it completely stale for survivors, but the question is whether the devs will be executing such changes
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How exactly are generators slow with lots of camping? Are the survivors afk? Are they hiding? If a killer camps there is zero pressure on the survivors to stop them from finishing generators.
If you watch Otz you will often see him 4k vs bad survivors and explain that he only won because he has ~9k hours of experience. This video shows exactly the same. Three of the survivors could have just left the game "marth style" (see the marth experiment if you don't follow that reference) and it would have been a 1k game. Even one of the survivors in the end game chat said the other survivors fed themselves to the killer.
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Some games you just 4K with 5gens, others with 1 gen left, this is the game my guy
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And you werent wrong...
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Is this the experiment that is over 4 years old now at this point?
Saving people is part of the game, you don't suddenly get to not count kills because "they could have escaped". If survivors argued that a killer "could have camped all game" and got one kill you would argue that doesn't matter either.
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He literally stayed on a single hook the whole match, on a killer that doesn't even have great hook defense, and got all surprised when all gens got done in 3 minutes against what is most probably a high MMR sweat team. It's not even a "I played perfectly and got ######### by the game issue", which admitedly happens a lot of the time, he played like garbage and got garbage results, just to kickstart another circlejerk that his followers won't even question for a minute.
On a side note, god those have to be the most obnoxious thumbnails I have seen in my entire life.
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I would say it's a common trend at this point but I genuinely haven't seen anyone post a Tru3 video in a long time, gens will be longer and some actions shorter next patch, I feel like posting videos like this right now are entirely pointless when the game is about to change massively.
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oh god that guy
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I can not even begin to break down how inefficient he is on killer. I don't just mean camping/tunneling. Literally everything he does wastes his own time and could be done quicker. I'm not trying to be overly critical, but take the first hook for example. Camp it or don't. But don't throw a yellow bottle, walk in the opposite direction, walk back to the gas, and then use the speed boost to walk in a tight circle patrolling nothing.
This isn't news. If you run a bad build on a bad killer and play inefficiently, gens will get done quickly.
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Ok I saw the video, lets point several things that were conviniently omited.
- First chase was a DISASTER, I can count at least 4 mistakes (one very big one) before getting the first hit.
- Of course he is going to lose 5 gens in 4 minutes (4º gen pops at 3:50, closer to 4 minutes than 3), he camped Meg at first hook with 3 gens still (technically 4 but the house gen was lost, he couldnt appply pressure to stop it being finished with Clown), camping gets countered by genrushing, which is what most Killer mains parrot in the camping complain threads, those Survivors did what they are supposed to do in a camping situation.
- He still got 4K regardless.
What this video proves is camping is actually quite strong, since the Survivors used the current counter and they still got decimated against a low tier Killer with an atrocious perk build against a player who made plenty of mistakes on his only real chase (yes, the guy is good but he isnt infalible, he makes mistakes like everyone else).
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How exactly are generators slow with lots of camping? Are the survivors afk? Are they hiding? If a killer camps there is zero pressure on the survivors to stop them from finishing generators.
Not everyone is in a 4-man swf with perfect coordination to know that the killer is camping and to do gens. Plus that leads into your “The generators are fast and there is lots of camping.” If the gens are slow why wouldn’t they camp for an easy kill. But if the gens are fast now the killer has to camp. What are survivors supposed to do?
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If you apply pressure, if they get one gen done before that happens or 3, it really doesn't matter if you get that pressure to snowball. Survivors don't always just get 3 gens in the first 3 minutes or so, sometimes they do. And its going to take gens longer to complete now so that's a plus for killers.
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Yes the generators repair themselves stupidly too fast even with anti gen rush perks.
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"Saving people is part of the game, you don't suddenly get to not count kills because "they could have escaped""
You are completely missing the point. Three of the survivors could have escaped but instead they went back to try and save the survivor. The point of mentioning the Marth experiment was because they had a rule where the team would just leave if three people could escape and one was on a hook.
Once again the point of the Marth experiment was to show that the game is incredibly survivor favored. Over and over again they proved that they could finish the gens very quickly and almost always leave with 3 or 4 players. If everyone played DBD like that then you would need the devs to implement bots.
Here is video showcasing the survivor experience. What happens? This video demonstrates how maps are too large and that Shift W is a huge problem. It shows that pallets are too close and create an environment that is too safe for good players.
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I mean its still a huge deal for the next week or so, so we should still address it as much as possible no? LOL (kidding, I agree with you)
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It´s impossible to pressure generators, I am ok if they manage to do them in 3 minutes if I felt like I had a chance to pressure.
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The game isn't about to change massively.Maps aren't getting smaller. M1 killers wont be viable. Pallet counts are not changing. The power of Shift W and pallet pre-drops will not change.
All the gen defense perks will be massacred; with that in mind gens will take less time overall. Looking just at Pop - it is easy to get about 5-6 Pops per game if you are not playing a super organized team. That means you make gens take 110 seconds longer.
If you lose 3 gens in the first chase that means those three gens take 10 seconds longer and the other two gens take 7 seconds longer each. The last time I checked 44-110 is a negative number. This is only considering a single perk being changed.
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Ah yes, I forget they gave Gens there own Personality and sentience, they are repairing Themselves way 2 quickly.
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gens are the vast majority of your objective as survivor, and the biggest determining factor of the overall matches progression, up there with kills. While Kills affect the amount of pressure potential that survivors have, gens affect the amount of pressure potential killers have. endgame hooks and kills (not even EGC, have to specify due to 99ing being a thing) DO happen, but there is an exponential dropoff on their impact on the game relative to how many gens remain, just like how many gens survivors can finish before the first (and subsequent) survivor(s) die.
Tunnelling and proxy after first gens pop extremely fast is often an adaptation that killers are forced to make. When it happens, they're basically hedging a safer bet to get at least 1 or 2 kills, regardless of fun or any other factors, just like someone getting tunnelled out will generally force the other survivors to focus on getting gens done as fast as possible. time elapsed and progress both have a massive impact on how strategies affect the game, and most importantly their necessity.
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How is this game not going through a lot of big changes? What has this past month of announcements been about then? And what exactly did you want them to do about survivors pre-dropping pallets?
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You know, I was always against AI in dead by daylight. Look at what it led to. Self-reparing gens, and I hear flashlights will also operate and blind killers on their own in an upcoming patch XD.
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Ez.
Yes. While being hooked I've seen survivors hiding in bushes, looting chests, cleansing dull totems or just running around the hook but not going for the save so the killer actually kept all 4 survivors busy by doing nothing.
Not to mention killer perks that allow keeping gens slow and camp at the same time.
For example deadlock. Whenever survivor finish one gen, the gen with most progress gets blocked for 30 seconds. Slowdown with 0 effort.
For example Pain Res + DMS. If you camp a person on a scourged hook and a survivor comes for a 1 for 1 then he gives you another Pain Res + DMS on the same scourged hook.
For example corrupt. If you down a survivor within the first 2 minutes, which happens pretty often, you can comfortably camp them within a 3gen without have to worry about the corrupted gens.
For example ruin. If you camp someone with ruin up all entire team might show up and trying to save. That means no gens are being done and the gens which had some progress are losing it.
I dont know why I have to explain such obvious things. Camping is always very efficient way to win games unless survivors are on comms.
Even swfs without comms struggle against this pretty often.
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and just like survivors can pre drop, killers can camp all game (psst, they don't though so what's your point) I bet in your last 50 matches you haven't played someone dropping pallets as hard as Spooky does in that video because most survivors enjoy trying to mind game and actually play loops, if you're just going to come up with "but look at what x COULD do every game" knowing full well 99% of matches don't go that way then it is pointless conversing with you because you're already determined to play the woe is me killer is too hard yada yada gens too fast yada yada.
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This video shows exactly the same. Three of the survivors could have just left the game "marth style" (see the marth experiment if you don't follow that
a lot of games at higher level have similar-level gen speed and most of the game for killer is played at the end game. Like generator took 3:50(4 minutes). Most of killer's kills comes from end game a lot of the time, especially for weaker killers like clown. a big part of survivor's skill is not even related to looping or doing generators. its just escaping the end game.
Here is video showcasing the survivor experience. What happens? This video demonstrates how maps are too large and that Shift W is a huge problem. It shows that pallets are too close and create an environment that is too safe for good players.
The game isn't about to change massively.Maps aren't getting smaller. M1 killers wont be viable. Pallet counts are not changing. The power of Shift W and pallet pre-drops will not change.
well they're in process of making both aspects weaker. it's only like 10% weaker, but at least its progress.
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people playing killer on 100+ 4k streaks
Lies.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Go look up Pro Vengeance on Youtube if you don't believe it.
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I just did . It ######### sucks and I was in a couple constant chases on cold wind farm (only 10 seconds each) and they cranked out each gen within first 3 min . I even got 3 hooks in total and still got destroyed .
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The Gen in the main Building on Ormond is way to Sassy, I tried to set up my blastmine and the lil turd kept pushing the grenade off himself. Got mighty annoyed with him, I think he was flirting with me tho.
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it gets slower, what.
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This guy has such a negative attitude. He makes a lot of mistakes, then wonders why generators are going so fast. Gee wonder if it might be because you aren't around them. He's good at the micro gameplay, but isn't so good with the macrogameplay. He doesn't keep track of where he's been, instead just kind of blindly patrolling areas he should know have no survivors. With the yellow bottle he goes right back to the area where he just chased Meg. Which had a gen with no progress. That's a huge timesink. With one survivor on hook, he does nothing with the other three. He could have had two survivors off gens by getting into chase with someone else, instead wastes so much of his own time he let the gens get done tbh. Nobody to blame but himself. This is not a game issue, it's a player issue.
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Tell me about it, the gen in that middle observation room on Lery's....OBSESSED with me. I had to block it on all my socials XD
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It's almost like high MMR sweaty SWFs ruin the game. It's so easy to call out what gens are almost done because the game doesn't have built in voice comms for a reason but SWFs using them which is unavoidable is fine. Because Solo Q is such a nightmare people only play SWFs these day and all the matches become sweaty gen rushes. It's almost like the survivors need a constant second objective they can't ignore.
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I got irritated at that video lmao
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Killer will still not be the power role after the patch - SWF will keep that title.
M1 killers will not be viable.
Bloodlust is still removed when breaking a pallet which means most loops are "safe".
There are too many pallets in too close proximity.
"I bet in your last 50 matches you haven't played someone dropping pallets as hard as Spooky does in that video because most survivors enjoy trying to mind game and actually play loops"
Most of the people I play against are way better than Spooky. I occasionally have people try to pre drop pallets against me as Nemesis (probably because someone told them it was a good idea). The problem there is that most "safe" loops are not safe against him. And then as soon as I get T2 a pre-drop literally only gains you about a second or two of distance.
But look at the results of predropping pallets (which we both know to be sub optimal). In every game in that video he leads the killer around for very long chases and the team wins easily. That's exactly the kind of safe looping that makes the game one sided.
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You know what for just incase I think you better block It with repressed alliance
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Lol my buddy 4ks at high MMR all the time and mains Clown with no add ons. Game is so ez for killers
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Congratulations to your 1000s post! And it's such a beauty. Magnificent!
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he was leading that shot and the survivor reacted and turned, seemed like a pretty standard play to me.
I don't really follow what you're going for with that second comment tho, he takes the piss regularly about people accusing him of tunnelling so much he just stopped trying to not tunnel and makes stupid sarcastic comments about it. "tunnelling perks" don't exist because survivor perks and mechanics like BT/DS/OTR/etc exist specifically to prevent tunneling. There are camping perks and addons though, and some killers do have abilities which make tunneling much easier (like PH.)
True doesn't always have perfect takes but this post kinda comes off as spiteful.
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That video just proves that gen speeds are trivial, you can do 5 gens in 3 minutes and the killer can still end up killing the entire team basically meaning that the killer still won the match, not only that but the player also makes a difference, OTZ is a good example, not only he has 50 win streak videos with ''X'' killer with a lot of those matches ending before all the gens are done, he also has the ''going AFK for 30 seconds at the start of the match challenge'' and he still goes on winning streaks despite the fact that that he puts himself at a massive disadvantage.
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on0 -
I swear killers be living rent free in survivors head. But who cares if games can end in 3 minutes. solo survivors still gonna complain about teammates not carrying them every game, so killer need more nerf.
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