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Gen speed is ridiculous
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Other streamers who tried the Afk 30 second challenge got much more robust survivors. Otz had noobs in at least 7 of his games that threw the game very hard. He also forgot to AFK two of the games and didn't bother to replay them. In one of those games he moved on top of a gen being worked on and then went AFK. In another game he was chasing a survivor who was in a corner and then went AFK. That survivor basically didn't have 30 seconds of AFK time - throwing the experiment.
He completed an artist 50 kill streak by getting the last ~20 games during a day when the MMR was turned off. That's not very honest if you ask me.
Gen speeds are only going to get better if you are not using gen defense perks. The only way you can pull that off is by playing Nurse/Blight with very strong addons and other meta perks to speed up chases (starstruck for nurse) or delay the end game with perks like Remember me/No way out.
"That video just proves that gen speeds are trivial"
I think you missed the point. What is the point in trying to defend generators if you lose 4/5 in 2:22? That's just stupid. The video shows the survivor objective is way too fast. If the other three survivors had just left it would have been an easy escape.
If it was just accepted that three survivors would leave the fourth to die then escape rates would soar to new heights.
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MMR being turned off is pure fan speculation, behaviour has never stated that mmr is turned on or off at any times.
''I think you missed the point. What is the point in trying to defend generators if you lose 4/5 in 2:22? That's just stupid''
Actually that's the point, the video just shows what happens when you don't patrol generators, you get rushed. He never defended generators in the first place, he proxy camped the first hooked survivor (he only briefly chased another survivor that was on a nearby structure and then returned to the hook) allowing the other survivors to do the remaining gens without being interrupted, had he chased survivors from gens they wouldn't have been that fast.
Also they had prove thyself (probably a SWF squad, you will rarely see that level of coordination and effectiveness on a solo queue match, by the looks of it other survivors didnt even bother going to rescue the hooked survivor until the end when gens were already completed, that tells us that they were on comms and knew that the hooked survivor was being camped thus they didnt bother to go save him and decided to focus on gens first) basically if he had spent more time looking for the 2 survivors who were doing gens instead of just camping his first hook the game would have been different, plus no gen defense perks, truetalent is not a good reference to make your point, he's not that good at killer, ironically I have seen him play as survivor and he is better at survivor than killer LOL.
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on0 -
You know that "high MMR sweaty SWFs" are just the excuse tru3 is using? Because he is one of the people who are really not able to reflect their own mistakes. He rarely has the thought that he did not play good.
(He will also probably never be great with any Killer, because he plays all of them AND does Viewer Builds, and sometimes those are just bad (like this Clown-Build he is using in the video)).
In fact, tru3 is one of the reasons why I would find it funny to see MMR. I am usually against it, but this dude is claiming that he is high MMR all the time, and it would be funny to see him at around an average level.
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The game did not end in 3 minutes. The game took longer and ended in a 4K.
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and swf can still complete gens and open gates in less than 5 mins lol.
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This has nothing to do with the video. It is a skill issue if the game ends in 3 minutes because the Killer dominates, but it is a game issue if the game ends in 5 minutes because all Gens are completed.
Post edited by Rizzo on6 -
While I did see this match in action, something that a lot of people fail to realize is that survivors literally spawn in right next to their one and only objective. It's like the killer spawning right next to a survivor. BHVR needs to stop having survivors spawn right next to generators. Yes, generator speeds are a tad too fast (a fact acknowledged even by BHVR themselves), but when you have survivors spawning on top of their objectives with perks and items that also increase generator speeds, it's no wonder that matches can go that quickly.
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Yeah there completely different. Killer have no way to counter a coordinated gen rusher. Perks are just a bandaid for killers and most average casual killers don’t have unlimited blood points to have tier 3 meta perks.
if the killer ends the game in 3 mins because survivors are potato is really nothing to complain about. It is what it is, just a skill issue on you and your team. Survivors have way more ways to stop a killer for killing them .
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"Killer have no way to counter a coordinated gen rusher. Perks are just a bandaid for killers"
When one side can finish 4/5 of their objective in under 3 minutes it forces the other side to try and do the same. That means tunneling. Against a SWF it's just gross how quickly you can finish all 5 generators (Coconut lost them in 2:43 in a recent match).
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I mean you have to cosmically screw up as survivor to get 4ked in 3 minutes while messing up one chase will lose you the game as killer
Post edited by Rizzo on5 -
Almost everyone agrees that Clown is weak. Almost everyone agrees that Mother's Dwelling is survivor sided.
Plus True decided to camp and it didn't pay off because the other survivors simply decided to do gens.
And gen times are being increased, alongside a bunch of other killer buffs.
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You didn't even take the map into consideration, which is known to be very survivor sided, as it's the biggest map in the game, making patrolling, especially for killers like Clown, very hard.
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I feel like the more Killer explains, the more flaws in their word...
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Because he found the first Survivor in ~15 seconds and he could have reached any of the gens that popped after the hook except the house one which he should have ignored instead of trying to reach it (this was a massive mistake), it took 60 seconds after hooking Meg for 3º and 4º gen to pop (Meg gets hooked at 1:25 and they pop at 2:24 and 2:26) which means they were at 20% completion.
Mothers Dwelling is indeed a good map for Survivor against low mobility Killers, Ive said so several times in threads where people ask "whats the biggest issue in DBD?" but in this case wasnt that determinant, he found the first Survivor in a relatively decent amount of time and had roughly 60 seconds to pressure the other gens but he didnt because he decided to camp which allowed the 2 guys working on gens to finish them unconcerned, as I said Killer mains always parrot "If they camp just do gens!!" and thats what these 3 people did not that it mattered because they all died anyway...
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The survivors were in control of that match for its entirety due to their efficiency. Even if he left the hook and pressured with that meme indoor map build they still would have been able to get all the gens done nearly as quick, clown can't pressure 4 survivors at once. If ones on a hook and ones trying to unhook or being chased, there are still 2 on gens. That said, their greed 100% caused the 4k, which is why a lot of people don't like using kills as a metric for how the match went. Games like this completely pollute the data, and many SWFs die by being overly altruistic instead of because they got outplayed the whole match.
He's discussed this a lot, but he feels that killers have less time/chances to adapt to survivor playstyles than vice versa. Its harder to go for hooks and then switch to lame tactics if you're falling behind, because survivor agency in matches is front loaded. Their efficiency and strength is highest at the start of the match, and shifts toward favoring the killer with each interaction (downs/hooks/pallets used/doors kicked/etc.) When he's using user submitted builds he generally tries to adapt them to win since people are literally paying him to do so.
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If you see his matches, he has been proxy camping and tunneling a lot for the 4ks. Not a very fun playstyle now is it?
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No, they were in control because of his camping, Clown cant pressure 3 people at once if he is camping a hook, I dont think anyone can. If we are going to talk hypothetical scenarios we can argue we dont know how good the rest were, what if the other 2 were bad enough to get downed very quickly? what if he managed to get 2 downs when there was 1 gen left? what if? Ive won games where I was at 1 gen left, with 0 hooks and ended them with 11 hooks and 1 gen left.
He may be right Killers have less time to adapt but this whole thread is about gens going fast with this clip as proof which is not a valid one because it was a case of hard camping, what does the OP want? camp for 2 full hook stages and still have 4 gens left at 0% each? Either he camps and secures a kill or he leaves hook, risks a rescue and pressures the gens so they dont go as fast.
Sorry but you cant have your cake and eat it too.
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Yes because now suddenly killers care about survivors fun or something lmao.
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Acting as if he didn't lose the match is extremely disingenuous. The survivors threw the game in order to try and get some fun out of an otherwise dull match, or because they felt bad about feeling the poor camped survivor behind. True would have lost the game had it been a more goal-oriented group of people.
The issue is, even if he didn't camp, I don't see the match going much differently. A detail I don't see mentioned is that while his pressure was suboptimal, it wasn't null. There were only two survivors working on gens since Dwight was just wasting time. In the time it would have taken True to go and attempt to disrupt the remaning two people, Dwight would have unhooked the Meg and not much would have changed, he'd still have at least two people working on gens. Given the size of the map and the communication the survivors had, there'd be little way for Clown to exhert any area of pressure.
The thing is, talking about "gen speeds" is not really that useful in itself, because repair speeds may be the same on Coal Tower and Mother's Dwelling from a purely mathematical standpoint, but that doesn't matter when it takes twice times as long to reach a gen on the latter than it does on the former. No amount of generator charges that feels fair on Mother's Dwelling is going to be also fair on other maps, because the problem isn't the gens, it's the design of the map itself.
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"That said, their greed 100% caused the 4k, which is why a lot of people don't like using kills as a metric for how the match went. Games like this completely pollute the data, and many SWFs die by being overly altruistic instead of because they got outplayed the whole match."
This is what any rational minded person will see when they watch this video. The survivors died as a result of misplays and Hubris. I doubt very many people if they had played this match and had it go exactly the same way would have had fun ( 1 chase, camp, tunnel, pressure, game over).
"Acting as if he didn't lose the match is extremely disingenuous. The survivors threw the game in order to try and get some fun out of an otherwise dull match, or because they felt bad about feeling the poor camped survivor behind. True would have lost the game had it been a more goal-oriented group of people."
The way you begin this argument is disingenuous. The three survivors not on a hook could have left and escaped with their points. That's a "tournament win attitude" that a lot of SWF people play by. If as True suggests we start looking at when hooks happen it will show that most of the "action" happens after the survivor objective is usually complete. This makes for one sided gameplay for the survivors.
"even if he didn't camp, I don't see the match going much differently"
Clown without the pinky finger is weak and that map is complete garbage for any killer to play besides Nurse/Blight. I think you're right and that's why he camped to go for an expected "safety" of potentially two kills.
"The thing is, talking about "gen speeds" is not really that useful in itself, because repair speeds may be the same on Coal Tower map and Mother's Dwelling from a purely mathematical standpoint, but that doesn't matter when it takes twice times as long to reach a gen on the latter than it does on the former. No amount of generator charges that feels fair on Mother's Dwelling is going to be also fair on other maps, because the problem isn't the gens, it's the design."
Repair speeds on Coal Tower and Mother's Dwelling are extremely different. Know why? If you try to shift+w on Coal Tower you have a very high chance of running into someone on a generator in about 15 seconds. The same thing won't happen on Mother's Dwelling in most cases until you've been running for about 60 seconds due to the size difference. A map like Coal Tower has a chance to be fair to all killers because you can potentially pressure two people during one chase. All the old maps used to work like this but were eventually resized so it just stopped happening.
The funny thing about Mother's Dwelling is that it makes the faster killers better because they can zoom around the map and survivors have to "walk" by comparison. Hooking someone in a far corner on a large map takes a large portion of the hook timer just to get close. The only thing that might make large maps fair would be to reduce the pallet counts for large maps. Maps larger than Coal Tower could have fewer tiles and more dead zones so that you have far fewer pallets per map surface area. That could potentially be an interesting way to make large maps fair to all killers.
The game is an outlier in that it is a small map but has 25 pallets. If we changed 80% of those pallets to be unsafe (translation : fair pallets that can be mindgamed - in other words throwing the pallet does not create a "mini infinite" that the killer has to break to resume chase) then it would be a much more fair map to all killers.
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The way you begin this argument is disingenuous. The three survivors not on a hook could have left and escaped with their points. That's a "tournament win attitude" that a lot of SWF people play by. If as True suggests we start looking at when hooks happen it will show that most of the "action" happens after the survivor objective is usually complete. This makes for one sided gameplay for the survivors.
I'm not sure what you mean. It seems we agree to some extent? Most of the action happened after the gens were completed because the survivors decided to not just leave the game and have some interaction instead. This isn't a situation where survivors try to turn a 2k into a 1k and get punished for it, it's just them being overly altruistic towards their friend because both them and True knew the game was, for all intents and purposes, over. It's the same thing when killers chase a survivor, down them, and then still carry them to the hatch. It means "I won, you lost, we both know it, so there's no point in not giving you five thousand bloodpoints."
Repair speeds on Coal Tower and Mother's Dwelling are extremely different. Know why? If you try to shift+w on Coal Tower you have a very high chance of running into someone on a generator in about 15 seconds. The same thing won't happen on Mother's Dwelling in most cases until you've been running for about 60 seconds due to the size difference. A map like Coal Tower has a chance to be fair to all killers because you can potentially pressure two people during one chase. All the old maps used to work like this but were eventually resized so it just stopped happening.
That's my point. Even though the gen speeds may be mathematically the same, in the sense that a survivor that spends one second on a generator will always complete one charge, the effective gen speeds are different because of the way the map is designed. It's nice that you found an additional way in which this is true but, again, we're not disagreeing.
The funny thing about Mother's Dwelling is that it makes the faster killers better because they can zoom around the map and survivors have to "walk" by comparison. Hooking someone in a far corner on a large map takes a large portion of the hook timer just to get close. The only thing that might make large maps fair would be to reduce the pallet counts for large maps. Maps larger than Coal Tower could have fewer tiles and more dead zones so that you have far fewer pallets per map surface area. That could potentially be an interesting way to make large maps fair to all killers.
I don't doubt this would make the map more bearable, but I'd prefer if they just gave up on making huge maps. A gigantic map with no pallets may be less stacked against the killer, but who would want to play on that? It would just more of a press-shift-and-w simulator. All the fun gameplay happens at loops and pallets. I'd rather have maps that have a decent amount of pallets but that are also small enough that throwing them down is something of a commitment from the survivor's part, and you can't just prethrow every single pallet and still complete five gens with more to spare.
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Glad to know we are mostly in agreement- but at first I totally read that a different way.
I have been asking for a long time for all DBD maps to be 9000m² or smaller.
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Those meta level jokes, bruh.
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I think the real issue maps and spawn locations. I recently started running lethal pursuer and started to notice it.
There are times on massive maps I will have all the survivors all spawn in different parts of the maps nowhere near one another.
As soon as this happens I just think "well no matter what I do I am about to get instant 3 gen." Cause my only option is to b line it to one of them but by the time I get to them and chase / down them the other three people have all done or just finish their gens. At that point what do you do? You have 1 maybe 2 hooks are 3 gens down and now have to balance chases while also trying to push them off gens.
99% of the time when this does happen I just give up on gens because most of the survivors then get cocky and as long as I can down one person in the end game I can get 1 or 2 kills with them being stupid and just charging in over and over trying to get the heals and unhooks.
However, sometimes I get a massive map and spawn in and see this
Those matches are nowhere near as stressful because I can run up scatter them and chase one person down while the other three are then making their way to new gens. It is honestly getting to the point where after messing with the plague I might perma run corrupt intervention from now on just to stop this from happening.
Here is another example of it happening were the same thing happened to this guy with 3 survivors all spawning on the other side of the map next to a gen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYeDaDe3GkQ&ab_channel=DaddyF1lth
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It's funny that the Shroud of Binding is the highest tier shroud available to survivors but also the worst one. I don't really play SWF but even in Prove squads I'd expect you'd rather use Union.
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Even losing 2-3 gens after one normal length chase against a good survivor is a really bad feeling. At that point you will have serious issues getting control of the match, for no fault of your own, which results in a hgher likelyhood of camping and tunneling if you want to win.
Arguably, the first gens are also the easiest, and depending on the survivors skill, your own, the map, the killer you play, it's not hard to get pressure rolling and turn it around. It happens a lot, actually. Of course, that scenario isn't going to happen if every survivor can loop as well as the first. Sometimes you're just going to lose, like in any game.
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Clown with a meme build, on the biggest map in the game. Proxy camping is the only way to deal with this situation. If you think he could have gone for multiple chases and hooks, you don't play killer in high MMR. Did they feed him after all gens were done? Ofc, but that's not the topic.
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