solution to camping that keeps both sides happy (hopefully)

KingB

@Wolf74 I don't have a problem with incentivizing leaving the hook. What would you call it? It's not punishing the killer. It's getting the game over /killing the hooked survivor quicker. I'm fine with the debuff, but people are still gonna camp. I don't have a problem with the mechanics of camping, it just isn't fun for either side. 

TreblucFayle

@Avariku said:

if they aren't DC'ing or suiciding on hook then they are keeping the killer busy so their team doesn't get massacred by a camper.

they're taking one for the team... seems like it's doing something to me. 

They didn't choose to be put on the hook. And the killer is only being "kept busy" if THEY choose to stay. The survivor on the hook is doing nothing and should not be rewarded for it.

Avariku

TreblucFayle said:

@Avariku said:

if they aren't DC'ing or suiciding on hook then they are keeping the killer busy so their team doesn't get massacred by a camper.

they're taking one for the team... seems like it's doing something to me. 

They didn't choose to be put on the hook. And the killer is only being "kept busy" if THEY choose to stay. The survivor on the hook is doing nothing and should not be rewarded for it.

so any survivor who gets camped should just go ahead and DC instead of wasting their time in a match where they won't get any BP OR any game time? 

this would only add to the team being screwed over and the camping killer being rewarded even further. 

Or should the hooked survivor just give up their freetime for no reason?

The_Crusader

They need to do something extreme because it has made the game completely unplayable in solo. At least for me.

Someone makes one mistake and that's it. They're on the hook and the killer just roams around the hook area. If anyone tries to pull them off then they quickly get tunneled down before they even have a chance to get away.

It's so mean-spirited and toxic. It absolutely ruins the game imo.

I know camping has been a problem in gamss for decades but I've never seen any game where it's as prevalent as it is in DBD. Plus in Call of Duty you can just turn around and shoot the camper. If you're camoed in DBD then outside of SWF with Borrowed Time you're pretty much screwed.

I won't be touching survivor anymore outside of SWF. So good job to those killers who cry about SWF yet play in such a way that survivors feel they need to play SWF.

Theluckyboi

why can´t you people understand camping is a necessary evil? just do gens while the killer is enjoying the view, skilled survivors can easily do almost all the gens while the killer is there, is it really that hard?

The_Crusader

Master said:

@MisterCremaster said:
To be clear, the> @Attackfrog said:

It's not an entire wasted game for the person hooked.

It's two minutes.

Then they jump into the next game.

Except if you are in a SWF group and need to wait for them to finish, and queue times can be stupid long. Hopefully that changes. Its also a waste of any offerings or items you brought.

If you are in a SWF, your mates can pop all gens while you are on hook and easily finish the game. Whats the deal?

Just to put some numbers.
A gen takes 80 seconds to complete, which means that during your 120 sec hook duration your mates can easily knock out 3 gens. Together with the 40 remaining seconds and the work done before you have hooked, this should be a free escape already.

You probably dont even have the time for a quick WC break till your mates are done

Everybody says this like it's a solution. It's not. It gets 3 people out of that situation but it doesn't tackle the bigger problem.

See when it comes down to that game after game..

- The person being hooked loses out. Depip and no points.

- The 3 gen rushers get no points due to no altruism and no evader

- It's not very fun holding M1 on a gen unchallenged.

KingB

@Theluckyboi I never said anything is wrong with the mechanics. It's a perfectly legitimate way to secure a kill. However, it is boring. It's not fun for either side (unless the survivor is toxic). I'm simply saying we should speed things up so it isn't so boring.

DarkWo1f997

The only killer that camps, is either very new, or extremely stressed out. I’m going to give you a little experiment. 

The next time a killer is camping, have the rest of your group go to the hook, the killer will turtle at first, but if he gets a successful hit, HE WILL CHASE THAT SURVIVOR. 

If you ease up on the killer, he stops camping. 

A lot of people do not realize how unhealthy that level of stress is and how terrible it is to endure. 

“But DarkWo1f, I shouldn’t have to do cater to someone.” You’re not, dummy. You know what causes a killer’s stress? The thought of losing to a bunch of T-bagging, taunting, and trash talking survivors.

 YOU are intimidating to most killers, it might not be intentionall, but the P3 Claudette you’re playing as also belonged to a toxic survivor with nothing but bad intentions in mind and the brain sees Claudette’s from that moment on, as an unpleasant presence (if you can even manage to see her that is)

and it’s really just not fun to be made fun of. Not letting it get under your skin isn’t the same as anticipating disrespectful and belittling post match chat. It’s instinctive and it kills morale. 

Its a borderline panic attack, your hands will shake, your breath will rattle, it’s too much to handle for a lot of people and if survivors would just walk up to and high five the killer, he will chase the next survivor. 

I really wish everyone would look from the other person’s point of view. If the camper in question is rapidly looking around, possibly missing some or almost all of his swings, and patrolling an extremely tight area, he is stressed out.

Where as a troll often holds still and waits. Sometimes even just staring at the victim until they die. 

There is body language that you can read through camera movement and behavior. 


EDIT: Same goes for survivors, if I down them twice before a gen is completed, I leave them to be revived and seek a new target. Stress can also be read through early pallet drops, running around the perimeter of the map, and staying away from everyone else on the team.  

The community needs to better itself. And the only way to do this is to reward the kind gestures we are given by the opposing force. It makes a huge difference guys. 

The_Crusader

@DarkWo1f997

I tried that earlier. Killer was camping someone. Just circling around and not leaving.

I baited him into chasing me. I go down due to a laggy hit and you know what he does? He then camps me.

And nobody was taking a hit for me.

So yeah....not worth feeding them because then they'll expect all their meals for free if you know what I mean.

DarkWo1f997

The_Crusader said:

@DarkWo1f997

I tried that earlier. Killer was camping someone. Just circling around and not leaving.

I baited him into chasing me. I go down due to a laggy hit and you know what he does? He then camps me.

And nobody was taking a hit for me.

So yeah....not worth feeding them because then they'll expect all their meals for free if you know what I mean.

It’s a comfort thing. If it happens often, playstyles will change to try and seek targets. It works on a majority but it would have to be in a coordinated group to make it work.

That one lone survivor being bait makes us clench our buttcheeks, something is fishy, and it looks to many like you are only bait that can get away itself. 

Im sorry that happened, but when playing solo, I think it’s best to understand that you need to look out for number 1, if you see a survivor show you generosity while solo queue, what I do is I make sure to save THEM, as the match progresses, white list those that don’t do anything selfish, and abandon those who do. 

DarkWo1f997

@The_Crusader the biggest mistake survivors still make to this day, is completing a gen while someone is hooked, I promise you that any time a gen is popped while someone is hooked, the incentive to stay only grows. The smart thing to do is stay off the gens, and make yourselves seen from a distance by the killer. 


The trick that works works for me every time, is to stay about 32 meters from the killer, and just walk without making eye contact, make sure your character doesn’t turn their head, pretend you don’t see him and if you do it convincingly enough, the killer sees that as a free hit and will feel comfortable leaving that hook. 

If he starts walking towards you, do not walk away until he’s closer to you than the hook, crouch behind something facing away from him, and when the TR music kicks in, you GTFO there. 

There are are so many little clever things you can do and some of them help both sides in the nerves department. 

M2Fream

Nickenzie said:

PhantomMask20763 said:

I feel like the killer should be rewarded for leaving though, something to entice the players to leave like extra bps

I was thinking more on the lines of the survivor getting bonus Lightbringer points when other survivors complete generators while you are on the hook. That way, you'll still have a great chance to pip (If your teammates do generators) while the killer gets his sacrifice.

Why would a survivor who got caught and did no gens deserve light bringer emblem points?
Killers lose emblem points for camping now, so why should survivors gain emblem points for getting caught?

DocOctober

@KingB said:
@DocOctober are you saying camping is fun?

No, I'm saying that your solution doesn't regard the Killer's fun. Punishing the Killer for camping without giving them an incentive for not camping doesn't make non-camping fun to them.

DocOctober

@DarkWo1f997 said:
@The_Crusader the biggest mistake survivors still make to this day, is completing a gen while someone is hooked, I promise you that any time a gen is popped while someone is hooked, the incentive to stay only grows. The smart thing to do is stay off the gens, and make yourselves seen from a distance by the killer. 

The trick that works works for me every time, is to stay about 32 meters from the killer, and just walk without making eye contact, make sure your character doesn’t turn their head, pretend you don’t see him and if you do it convincingly enough, the killer sees that as a free hit and will feel comfortable leaving that hook. 

If he starts walking towards you, do not walk away until he’s closer to you than the hook, crouch behind something facing away from him, and when the TR music kicks in, you GTFO there. 

There are are so many little clever things you can do and some of them help both sides in the nerves department. 

You're expecting way too much thinking from the average Survivor main.

Wolf74

@DarkWo1f997 said:
@The_Crusader the biggest mistake survivors still make to this day, is completing a gen while someone is hooked, I promise you that any time a gen is popped while someone is hooked, the incentive to stay only grows. The smart thing to do is stay off the gens, and make yourselves seen from a distance by the killer. 

The trick that works works for me every time, is to stay about 32 meters from the killer, and just walk without making eye contact, make sure your character doesn’t turn their head, pretend you don’t see him and if you do it convincingly enough, the killer sees that as a free hit and will feel comfortable leaving that hook. 

If he starts walking towards you, do not walk away until he’s closer to you than the hook, crouch behind something facing away from him, and when the TR music kicks in, you GTFO there. 

There are are so many little clever things you can do and some of them help both sides in the nerves department. 

What you are describing is a "good bait" to lure the camper from the hook.
But most survivor do really bad baits and get mad because the killer doesn't fall for it.

The_Crusader

@DocOctober Can we stop with the insults please? Things have chilled out now. Lets not start it all up again.

@Wolf74
Yes some survivors do bad baits. Like running into extremely secure areas which the killer isn't going to fall for.

However some killers flat out refuse to leave the hook. Or some only leave if you give them a guarenteed new hook. At which point they then camp the new guy. You can't keep feeding a camping killer new hooks.

I don't see why it's on survivors to feed some lazy troll new hooks to get them to move.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
@DocOctober Can we stop with the insults please? Things have chilled out now. Lets not start it all up again.

@Wolf74
Yes some survivors do bad baits. Like running into extremely secure areas which the killer isn't going to fall for.

However some killers flat out refuse to leave the hook. Or some only leave if you give them a guarenteed new hook. At which point they then camp the new guy. You can't keep feeding a camping killer new hooks.

I don't see why it's on survivors to feed some lazy troll new hooks to get them to move.

You're new, so I'm gonna explain how camping started.
Back when DbD was released, Survivors knew not to rescue against a camper. If someone was being camped, they signaled it by faking self-unhooks, and everyone else stayed away, working on generators.
As Survivors became cocky, they tried to force the unhooks, even if the Killer was right there.
Killers, in turn, learned that Survivors would stop all generator progress if even one of them was hooked, which bought them some much-needed time and tilted the game in their favor. So, Killers started to camp more and more, and Survivors just kept rewarding it by stopping generator progress.
Perks were created as a band-aid solution at the Survivors' behest, ranging from basic stuff like Kindred to OP stuff like Borrowed Time (at release, anyway).

Fast-forward to now, camping is rewarded 9 times out of 10, and Survivors have become so entitled that they think they should be able to unhook regardless of the Killer's presence; i.e.: that the Killer's presence should be inconsequential to what they want to do. They call them "trolls", "scum", "#########", and every other name under the sun, to try to bully and shame Killers into what they call "playing fair" (which is just code for "letting Survivors do what they want to do").

To stop camping, all Survivors on all platforms would need to stop feeding campers for a prolonged period of time. They'd need to repair generators and leave, just as they once knew to do. Survivors created the camping problem, and every hook rusher, every hook farmer, every hook vulture, they all help perpetuate it. Because Survivors feel entitled to unhook every single time, they make camping worthwhile for the Killer, and because camping is worthwhile for the Killer, Killers do it.
Survivors hold the key to getting rid of camping, but they're unwilling to use it. They'd rather blame the Killers who learned that Survivors will almost always reward camping rather than their own attitudes that led to the problem in the first place.

Believe me, besides actual trolls who camp just to trigger Survivors, camping is just as unfun for the Killers as it is for the Survivors.

twistedmonkey

The problem with this is survivors can and will abuse it as they did with the PTB test of old when they tested the hook not regressing, its probably been said before but I cant be bothered to go through all the posts sorry.

If someone refuses to leave the hook and there is no visible sign of anyone being around you just have to face facts that they will not leave, there is nothing you can do and by not doing gens and getting out you are rewarding them, if you see this happening get out of dodge asap, do gens and forget the hooked person, the person hooked should stay there wasting time, at the most they should get 2 kills and more than likely less than 10k points, it is punishable by the action of the survivors, by not doing this you reward it, yes it sucks for the person on the hook but by rewarding the killer there is no reason for them to change tactics.

Wolf74

@The_Crusader said:

@Wolf74
Yes some survivors do bad baits. Like running into extremely secure areas which the killer isn't going to fall for.

However some killers flat out refuse to leave the hook. Or some only leave if you give them a guarenteed new hook. At which point they then camp the new guy. You can't keep feeding a camping killer new hooks.

I don't see why it's on survivors to feed some lazy troll new hooks to get them to move.

If you "feed the camper" you are doing the baits wrong.
Sometimes you need to take a hit to get a rescue, but that's why the unhook reward is so high.
And trading hooks is still beneficial to the team, because spread out damage among the team means more time with 4 survivor active.

Orion

@Orion said:
To stop camping, all Survivors on all platforms would need to stop feeding campers for a prolonged period of time.

Adding to this: if Survivors wanted to permanently stop camping, they would need to stop rewarding it for the rest of DbD's lifetime. That means no more hook rushing, no more following Killers to the hook, no more obvious baits, etc., forever.

The_Crusader

Wolf74 said:

@The_Crusader said:

@Wolf74
Yes some survivors do bad baits. Like running into extremely secure areas which the killer isn't going to fall for.

However some killers flat out refuse to leave the hook. Or some only leave if you give them a guarenteed new hook. At which point they then camp the new guy. You can't keep feeding a camping killer new hooks.

I don't see why it's on survivors to feed some lazy troll new hooks to get them to move.

If you "feed the camper" you are doing the baits wrong.
Sometimes you need to take a hit to get a rescue, but that's why the unhook reward is so high.
And trading hooks is still beneficial to the team, because spread out damage among the team means more time with 4 survivor active.

It's never works as simple as you make it sound because there's little co-ordination. Not with randoms anyway 

With SWF however? It's easy.

So again we end up where it's just better off to play SWF.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
It's never works as simple as you make it sound because there's little co-ordination. Not with randoms anyway 

With SWF however? It's easy.

So again we end up where it's just better off to play SWF.

So take perks that help with coordination. Kindred, Bond, Empathy.

Wolf74

@Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
It's never works as simple as you make it sound because there's little co-ordination. Not with randoms anyway 

With SWF however? It's easy.

So again we end up where it's just better off to play SWF.

So take perks that help with coordination. Kindred, Bond, Empathy.

But they have no room for those "inferior" perks in their full meta builds (SC,SB, DS, BT).
And Kindred is a "garbage perk", because 2 min aura read on the killer is crap and 4 seconds aura read on survivor is OP, you know?

The_Crusader

Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
It's never works as simple as you make it sound because there's little co-ordination. Not with randoms anyway 

With SWF however? It's easy.

So again we end up where it's just better off to play SWF.

So take perks that help with coordination. Kindred, Bond, Empathy.

I do take Bond.

But me taking those 3 perks doesn't mean the others will. Like I said I baited a camper yesterday so they could get the unhook, but they weren't able to do it for me.

Theres also the fact that I have to use multiple perk slots for those. SWF don't so they can load up on their meta perks which again leads to the game being nowhere near as good or fun for solo survivors.

Orion

@Wolf74 said:

@Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
It's never works as simple as you make it sound because there's little co-ordination. Not with randoms anyway 

With SWF however? It's easy.

So again we end up where it's just better off to play SWF.

So take perks that help with coordination. Kindred, Bond, Empathy.

But they have no room for those "inferior" perks in their full meta builds (SC,SB, DS, BT).
And Kindred is a "garbage perk", because 2 min aura read on the killer is crap and 4 seconds aura read on survivor is OP, you know?

Yeah, I get it. Solo Survivors want the same coordination as borderline wallhack SWF, but they don't want to have to sacrifice any perk slots for it.

The_Crusader

Orion said:

@Wolf74 said:

@Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
It's never works as simple as you make it sound because there's little co-ordination. Not with randoms anyway 

With SWF however? It's easy.

So again we end up where it's just better off to play SWF.

So take perks that help with coordination. Kindred, Bond, Empathy.

But they have no room for those "inferior" perks in their full meta builds (SC,SB, DS, BT).
And Kindred is a "garbage perk", because 2 min aura read on the killer is crap and 4 seconds aura read on survivor is OP, you know?

Yeah, I get it. Solo Survivors want the same coordination as borderline wallhack SWF, but they don't want to have to sacrifice any perk slots for it.

Why should we? It puts as at a massive disadvantage. Helps out the crappy camping killers too. Easier to just play SWF.

Besides how many times do killers cry and then refuse to take perks they're recommended?

And for the record, Kindred barely helps some games. Weak survivors are going to be weak survivors regardless. Because theres no overrall plan, no co-ordination.

The_Crusader

Wolf74 said:

@Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
It's never works as simple as you make it sound because there's little co-ordination. Not with randoms anyway 

With SWF however? It's easy.

So again we end up where it's just better off to play SWF.

So take perks that help with coordination. Kindred, Bond, Empathy.

But they have no room for those "inferior" perks in their full meta builds (SC,SB, DS, BT).
And Kindred is a "garbage perk", because 2 min aura read on the killer is crap and 4 seconds aura read on survivor is OP, you know?

How many times do you complain that SWF is unbalanced? Yet here you are taking it out on solo survivors.

I don't bring meta builds actually. Couldn't care less about SB or DS. I like how you act like BT is a bad thing when it's one of the best things to have against camping. I only bring that if I get multiple camping killers in a row. So it's a reaction to how killers play.

Want us to stop bringing BT? Stop camping.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
Want us to stop bringing BT? Stop camping.

BT activates even if the Killer isn't camping. I also see you ignored my history lesson.

Wolf74

@The_Crusader said:

Why should we? It puts as at a massive disadvantage. Helps out the crappy camping killers too. Easier to just play SWF.

Besides how many times do killers cry and then refuse to take perks they're recommended?

And for the record, Kindred barely helps some games. Weak survivors are going to be weak survivors regardless. Because theres no overrall plan, no co-ordination.

So we can agree on SWF with voice com is worth at least 3 perk slots for free, right?
I think we should keep that in mind as a baseline from now on, ok?

And on "recommended perks" for killer, most of these recommendations are to solve problems that survivor create without taking any perks at all, like looping, gen rush, bodyblocking or items.
So every killer is "recommended" to sue Ruin, FD and a combination of BS/En/SF/Bamboozle and either Agi or IG, all at the same time.
Not to mention that of course EVERY killer is using BBQ, NC, Whispers and Sloppy Butcher.

RSB

"Both sides happy"

And since killers are irrelevant subhumans, their fun is not important. If survivors are happy, 100% of important playerbase are happy.

VERI, VERI GUT

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
Why should we? It puts as at a massive disadvantage. Helps out the crappy camping killers too. Easier to just play SWF.

Besides how many times do killers cry and then refuse to take perks they're recommended?

And for the record, Kindred barely helps some games. Weak survivors are going to be weak survivors regardless. Because theres no overrall plan, no co-ordination.

Aura reading puts you at a massive disadvantage? Are we talking about the same thing here?

Wolf74

@The_Crusader said:

Want us to stop bringing BT? Stop camping.

So we are back to beating dead horses with blatantly false memes?

The_Crusader

@Orion In terms of escaping the killer yes.

As I said I bring Bond anyway. It's great for me but other survivors don't bring these therefore there's still no co-ordination. Again Kindred doesn't always work because there's no communication.

@Wolf74

It's not a "false meme" at all. I have BT unlocked but I only bring it if I get game after game of camping killers. Obviously it makes sense to bring perks that will counter how the killer is playing.

So it's definitely true for me. Can't speak for everyone but I know others like me bring it purely in reaction to how killers play.

DocOctober

@The_Crusader said:
Besides how many times do killers cry and then refuse to take perks they're recommended?

Simple answer:

Survivor mains tend to be extremely ignorant about Killer Perks and in pretty much every single instance of a Survivor main suggesting a Killer to take Perk A to counter Perk/Mechanic B, it doesn't actually work as a counter if we go by the official definition of said word and not made-up ones.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
@Orion In terms of escaping the killer yes.

As I said I bring Bond anyway. It's great for me but other survivors don't bring these therefore there's still no co-ordination. Again Kindred doesn't always work because there's no communication.

You have the pre-game chat that you can use to coordinate perks, offerings, etc.. There are already tools for coordination, but Survivors refuse to use them.

As for BT, here's what you think is happening:
"I totally countered that camper because I unhooked the other guy!"
Here's what's actually happening, from the Killer's perspective:
"Wow, BT is annoying, but at least it guarantees that half the Survivors weren't working on generators. I'm gonna camp again next trial."

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. I've already told you the history of camping. It's up to you to listen or ignore it.

Wolf74

BT will CAUSE camping instead of "countering" it.

The_Crusader

Obviously BT is only used as a last resort. I've said before its stupid when people rush straight in with it.

I can see we're going around in circles again though. You lot defending camping as always and me saying it's bad.

Just remember that there are a fair few people who don't find solo survivor fun anymore and now only want to play SWF, or just play killer.

Remember that when you're moaning about how lobby after lobby is all SWF.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
Obviously BT is only used as a last resort. I've said before its stupid when people rush straight in with it.

I can see we're going around in circles again though. You lot defending camping as always and me saying it's bad.

Just remember that there are a fair few people who don't find solo survivor fun anymore and now only want to play SWF, or just play killer.

Remember that when you're moaning about how lobby after lobby is all SWF.

Do you just define anything that isn't complete revulsion, opposition, and hatred as "support"?
I pointed out how camping got started and what Survivors - as a group - can do to stop it. Others pointed out how camping can be stopped as well. Not one comment that I saw was saying "Everyone should camp" or anything along those lines.

The_Crusader

Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
Obviously BT is only used as a last resort. I've said before its stupid when people rush straight in with it.

I can see we're going around in circles again though. You lot defending camping as always and me saying it's bad.

Just remember that there are a fair few people who don't find solo survivor fun anymore and now only want to play SWF, or just play killer.

Remember that when you're moaning about how lobby after lobby is all SWF.

Do you just define anything that isn't complete revulsion, opposition, and hatred as "support"?
I pointed out how camping got started and what Survivors - as a group - can do to stop it. Others pointed out how camping can be stopped as well. Not one comment that I saw was saying "Everyone should camp" or anything along those lines.

Fair enough but other day it was a different tune. I thought you had more your stances on it pretty clear.

Wolf74

@The_Crusader
We just tell you that camping is a valid, legal tactic, that is rewarded and encouraged by the SURVIVOR.
I never said anywhere that I personally like to camp or do it all the time.
But I refuse to take any mechanic that would deny me to do so if I choose so, because I see a reason to do so or any tactical advantage from doing it.
I want to have the OPTION to do it, when I see it necessary.
You on the other hand want to "remove" camping or "punish" killer for doing it, no matter why they do it.
Because ingame you have no real measurement method to evaluate if it was "reasonable" or not, still it is subjective if it was.
And survivor often call camping if it was actually not.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
Fair enough but other day it was a different tune. I thought you had more your stances on it pretty clear.

My stance is the following:

• Camping is a legitimate tactic.
• Camping is boring for both the camper and the camped.
• Game mechanics should not punish Killers for camping.

Now here are a few facts:

• Camping is a Survivor-created problem with a Survivor-side solution.
• Camping will never be completely eliminated.
• Camping can be the best thing to do sometimes.
• Survivors make camping pay off more often than not.
• Camping puts all the power in the Survivors' hands, potentially making it one of the worst strategies for a Killer, second only to standing still the entire trial.
• Camping has counters.

The_Crusader

Heres my thoughts...

- It ruins the game
- It hurts solo more than SWF

Compromise with killers to have changes made to the game that nerf camping, and in a compromise we nerf SWF.

I've often seen this idea flaoted around that the gane goes...

SWF > Killer >> Solo survivors.

I think there's a fair amount of truth to that.

KingB

@DocOctober it's not directly punishing the killer. If a killer hard camps I doubt they planned on getting more than 1 kill. I'm trying to provide a way to speed up the process for both sides. Camping isn't fun for either side. This is just an idea. There is a middle ground and I play both sides I'm just trying to find it.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
Heres my thoughts...

• It ruins the game
• It hurts solo more than SWF

Compromise with killers to have changes made to the game that nerf camping, and in a compromise we nerf SWF.

I've often seen this idea flaoted around that the gane goes...

SWF > Killer >> Solo survivors.

I think there's a fair amount of truth to that.

Camping doesn't need nerfs. If you want Killers to stop camping, you've got two choices:

• Stop rewarding camping (which Survivors don't want to do because they feel entitled to save even if the Killer is right there).
• Reward Killers for leaving the hook as a base mechanic (which they also don't want to do, because they think Killers are dogs or circus animals that should be trained by beating them until they do what you want).

Orion

@KingB said:
@DocOctober it's not directly punishing the killer. If a killer hard camps I doubt they planned on getting more than 1 kill. I'm trying to provide a way to speed up the process for both sides. Camping isn't fun for either side. This is just an idea. There is a middle ground and I play both sides I'm just trying to find it.

Camping already takes more time than you need to repair every generator on the map and leave. It takes something like 120 seconds for the Survivor to die, and only 80 seconds (max) to complete a generator. Assuming 50% progression on 3 generators and 25% on a fourth by the time one of them is hooked, this means that Survivors have enough time to repair every generator, open the door, and leave.

Orion

@Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
Heres my thoughts...

• It ruins the game
• It hurts solo more than SWF

Compromise with killers to have changes made to the game that nerf camping, and in a compromise we nerf SWF.

I've often seen this idea flaoted around that the gane goes...

SWF > Killer >> Solo survivors.

I think there's a fair amount of truth to that.

Camping doesn't need nerfs. If you want Killers to stop camping, you've got two choices:

• Stop rewarding camping (which Survivors don't want to do because they feel entitled to save even if the Killer is right there).
• Reward Killers for leaving the hook as a base mechanic (which they also don't want to do, because they think Killers are dogs or circus animals that should be trained by beating them until they do what you want).

To emphasize: punishment does not work, and Survivors have already proved as much.
Take, for example, the penalty for hook rushing. Survivors get caught, resulting in a snowball for the Killer. Yet they keep doing it, over and over, despite the obvious punishment. If you think punishment works, then explain why Survivors throw themselves at Killers despite the punishment they receive.

The_Crusader

Orion said:

@Orion said:

@The_Crusader said:
Heres my thoughts...

• It ruins the game
• It hurts solo more than SWF

Compromise with killers to have changes made to the game that nerf camping, and in a compromise we nerf SWF.

I've often seen this idea flaoted around that the gane goes...

SWF > Killer >> Solo survivors.

I think there's a fair amount of truth to that.

Camping doesn't need nerfs. If you want Killers to stop camping, you've got two choices:

• Stop rewarding camping (which Survivors don't want to do because they feel entitled to save even if the Killer is right there).
• Reward Killers for leaving the hook as a base mechanic (which they also don't want to do, because they think Killers are dogs or circus animals that should be trained by beating them until they do what you want).

To emphasize: punishment does not work, and Survivors have already proved as much.
Take, for example, the penalty for hook rushing. Survivors get caught, resulting in a snowball for the Killer. Yet they keep doing it, over and over, despite the obvious punishment. If you think punishment works, then explain why Survivors throw themselves at Killers despite the punishment they receive.

Yes sometimes it is the survivors fault too. Those who just want to farm their WGLF stacks, those who rush because they don't wany anyone else getting the points, and those who are just out to troll.

But that leaves us again in the situation where its best to just avoid solo altogether and only play SWF.

Orion

@The_Crusader said:
Yes sometimes it is the survivors fault too. Those who just want to farm their WGLF stacks, those who rush because they don't wany anyone else getting the points, and those who are just out to troll.

But that leaves us again in the situation where its best to just avoid solo altogether and only play SWF.

No, not just "sometimes". Again, read the history of camping.

Playing SWF just avoids dealing with the issue. It's like the invulnerability after being unhooked. Doesn't do anything to fix the cause of the problem (hook vultures, as I like to call them), and instead punishes an unrelated third party (the Killer).

dannyfrog87

@KingB said:
No, I'm not complaining about killers camping. It's a legit strategy and I'm not saying it should be removed or anything. But it is unfun as a survivor. What I suggest is a perk/base game mechanic/kindred buff that does this:

"When killer is within 16m, the auras of 1/2/3 random gems are revealed. All survivors complete gens 15%/15%/20% faster until unhooked or dead."

Edit 1: "if a survivor is within 16m the perk is disabled."

This way survivors can punish camping effectively while killers can secure the kill. The numbers can be tweaked I just thought this was a good premise. And the survivor can suicide on the hook quicker without screwing the other 3 so bad. 

Edit 2: with this introduction the chaser penalty should be removed.

this is the most stupid post i have read. yeah repair gens faster because they are not easy enough to do as it is. this totally unbalances the scales. what a stupid idea lol .....

fedup

@GodDamn_Angela said:
Camping is already heavily discouraged by in-game mechanics and losing Chaser score. The only time Camping is a "legit strategy" is when the Killer KNOWS a survivor, or three, are nearby waiting to unhook. Otherwise they are just wasting time and giving the Survivors free rein to do Gens without any worries.

Also who are the Gens revealed to, the hooked player? Your perk idea is a little confusing and I feel it would be too annoying and unfair to implement something this extreme as a base mechanic.

they usually are not wasting time doing that, as you say, cause survivors level is lower every day and they just run into it without shame one after another