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Perks being disabled in endgame is not a good trend.
It just makes it harder to get value from your perks and punishes survivors for getting to endgame so baby killers can have an easier time tunneling someone out. Why not disable every survivor perk during endgame? Hell let's disable exhaustion perks too.
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Tunnelling is a fairly meaningless term once 5 gens have been done.
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No they disabled them at end game because too many survivors were using them for a free escape because Killers couldn't regain the chase before they reached a 99 gate or other survivors would bodyblock once and they would lose them
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Agreed. If anything killers should be the ones penalised in endgame. They lost, they shouldn't be getting the go ahead to facecamp and tunnel with absolutely nothing that can stop them, completely wasting that survivor's match. But hey they'll probably do it anyway
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You do realize that's when tunneling and camping is ok because there isn't any other goal for the killer but kill right....
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I tend to agree with you, but I'm not sure that this is the general consensus. I think ds should deactivate in endgame because if you get downed that's on you, but I don't think off the record should deactivate.
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End game is still part of the game, no one has lost until the game is over or they're eliminated. Or should we count any survivor who's in the dying state as 'lost' and just eliminate them immediately without any hooks?
The problem with certain perks at end game, is that they put a killer in a lose-lose situation.
If a survivor has gotten themselves downed at any point, then the killer has earned that down and has the capacity to attempt a hook, regardless of when this occurs in the game.
The problem with DS at endgame is that a killer could down a survivor within range of an exit gate (could be as much as 30 meters which is huge), but if they have DS, then they are untouchable. Killer is damned if they do, damned if they don't. They can't pick them up, because the guarantees an escape, and they can't slug them, because they can just crawl out.
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Okay then i hope neither of you has a problem with tunneling and camping because going for 12 hooks evenly spread and finishing before 5 gens are popped is delusional in an equal matchup.
Either you get less camping and tunneling but we get no hard 2nd chance perks during the unavoidable endgame or you keep your perks and don't complain when killer force them prior to end game.
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I understand that in some situations it was just loose. But now its the other way around and most survivors cant do much in endgame. It should be equal for both sides to kill/escape.
And i think its quite unfair to have a perk completly disabled, just because you didnt need to use it.
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If we actually got less camping/tunneling in exchange for the removal of the "2nd chance perks", it would be a decent trade. That is not the case though.
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I know bhvr is not known for doing things in a timely correct manner but when they take out more and more of the incentives to camp/tunnel then they can make it less appealing or even straight up punish it.
Turning off perks like DS or otr only punishes the one survivor that might be hooked during eg while the rest still can escape and just have to keep their altruism in check.
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Survivor punished. Even doing all the generators and opening the gates. So ridiculous
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- Go for unhooker
- Hook far from exit and slug
- Don’t get to endgame
There three counters that aren’t killer dependent. Individual killers may have even more counters to DS and OTR. But complaining about losing kills because of DS is like 2 survivors dying at 5 gens and then blaming it on Barbecue and Chili. If survivors did 450 seconds worth of gene they should have an advantage.
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"End game is still part of the game, no one has lost until the game is over or they're eliminated. Or should we count any survivor who's in the dying state as 'lost' and just eliminate them immediately without any hooks?"
In all honesty this probably explains the mindset behind the "one- down wuss" types of D/Cs.
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Survivors seem to think that they won by completing all the generators and they're entitled to the escape just by powering the gates. The game isn't over until you leave.
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Killers seem to think they deserve a kill by hooking someone once in end game and they’re entitled to a kill just by hooking someone once in end game. The game isn’t over until the third hook.
it’s always the nurse profile pics huh
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So, it's a problem that sometimes a survivor can't do much during EGC in the same way that it's been a problem for killers to secure a kill during EGC for quite some time? I'm going to assume that you were here complaining about how unfair it was for killers on the other side of the coin too then, right? I mean, you must have, because "It should be equal for both sides to kill/escape", right?
Of course not. You didn't care previously when it was unfair for the side you were playing against, but now that you have to face a similar scenario, it's unfair. Shocking.
"It should be equal for both sides to kill/escape, but, there should also be a reasonable bias for the role I'm playing" - seems a pretty fitting quote in regards to a lot of complaints I've been seeing recently.
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There’s nothing wrong with some perks turning off in the last couple minutes of play, it’s just the flip side of perks like Corrupt Intervention and Ruin turning off after the first couple minutes of play.
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When the 5th gen pops the killer is obliged to stand in a corner for 30 seconds to give the survivors time to prepare before reporting to the exit gate for BM
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This is a pretty keen insight. It should be telling that the killer role now has perks that are designed to deactivate after the early game, and that the survivor role now has perks that are designed to deactivate upon entering the lategame.
Killers typically snowball into success - by the end of a match with palettes crumbled and hook states applied, they should be considered a serious threat.
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Oh look, its us vs them.
I honestly dont use DS anyway and off the record. Also its just for discussing and i answer in thread. Also i'm not on every thread on this forum. Dont know where you come from with your "point".
Sad that you need to be unfriendly in a discussion like that.
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I'm fine with DS and parts of OTR being disabled at endgame. I don't think you should be given a guaranteed escape, but I think the secondary effects of OTR (the aura reading and noise reduction) are perfectly fine at EGC.
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Well, this is an asymmetrical "competitive" game so it's very much "us vs them" really, isn't it?
The problem with a lot of people complaining at the moment (you included) is that you lack perspective and you show your own biases within your comments, apparently (judging by your "us vs them" comment) without realising how "us vs them" and one-sided your comment even is in the first place.
For years people have been complaining about DS during EGC as there was nothing a killer could do in that particular situation. The responses? "don't tunnel", "you were outplayed", "get good", "if survivors did all 5 gens they deserve to leave" etc,.
Whether or not you personally use those perks, they've been altered for what? a day? And already there are countless complaints, people saying they're going to quit the game, people screaming that this will be the death of DBD and all sorts of nonsense.
One day and already it's unfair to this degree.
Yes, this is a discussion, you replied and then I replied to you. I'm not sure what relevance you not being on every thread has here. I'm going to go ahead and assume there's a slight language barrier.
While I'm not really here to make friends, my comment wasn't intended to be "unfriendly". I don't feel as though I've been particularly rude or "unfriendly" here at all.
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Killers may as well go afk after the exit gates are powered with some of these perks. They make it impossible to kill anyone. These are good changes.
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DS and OTR are disabled in endgame because they were free escapes with nothing the killer could’ve done about it. DS should go back to a 5 second stun, but the endgame nerf was completely justified.
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Agreed. If anything killers should be the ones penalised in endgame. They lost...
Getting to end-game doesn't mean the Killer lost, there even are builds based on the end-game. By the same logic, Survivors should just die once the Killer gets 7 Hooks
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The survivor's not dead until the entity grabs them. Feel free to come for the rescue if you think they don't deserve the kill.
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Tunnelling implies the Killer is trying to get someone out as early possible
It's not early if it's endgame lol
Endgame being scary and tough is what makes it fun to try, BT (The perk) still works in endgame
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Game isn't over until everyone has escaped or is dead. Baby survivors aren't entitled to a guaranteed escape just because they finished 5 gens.
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I agree something should change.
I ran a killer for 5 gens yesterday, got to end game, and was promptly downed with NOED. (Shocker it hasn't changed). I was hooked, and face camped while being repeatedly smacked on hook, because the killer chose to massively overcommit to me -- How is that my fault? My teammates cleanse NOED right before I go to 2nd hook. I get unhooked, the killer waits out the 5 seconds of built in BT, and downs me, then insta picks me up, rehooks me, and continues beating me on hook. I get unhooked again, and my team tries to take hits, but it's pointless. I get downed again. I then get slugged for the entirety of my bleed out bar once the killer forces everyone out.
Just why.
How is this a good experience?
In my personal opinion, I understand having the full length of OTR active in end game would feel a bit unfair.
👉️Why not let OTR function the way it normally does, but once exit gates are powered, it has it's duration changed to the length of Borrowed Time. This would let us still get value out of a perk that we brought, and be FAIR.
That whole situation could have been avoided if one of my random teammates had Borrowed Time, but we were told this update would fix camping / tunneling, etc so nobody is bringing it anymore. I feel BT is required more than ever, so the perk I can never take off is still in my perk slot forever. Off The Record is almost useless, but having a self given BT during end game feels fair, and if any of my teammates had BT, I would have easily made the exit gate.
I deserved that escape, and the killer did not deserve the kill, but nothing in place truly stops that. I don't care about surviving normally, and I don't feel I deserve to live if gens get finished, but that killer chose to over commit to me, and lose the game, they should have actually lost it.
Every match I had yesterday someone was hard tunneled out while the killer ran 3-4 slow downs with NOED. If you get to end game with the current killer slow downs + buffs, you deserve borrowed time, because holy heck is it painfully hard to get to end game in solo queue right now. I played 6 hours yesterday. 6 hours of constant BM like children are playing the game, and having to always watch a teammate no matter how many hits I try to take get tunneled out immediately.
Why would killers just STOP running 4 slow downs + tunneling/camping when it still makes for a massively easier game? They never will unless there incentive + benefit for not doing those things. How was this not obvious before this patch went live?
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This is a great example of two problems with DBD's design.
First is that survivors don't really care about other survivors. Not from a player standpoint, but from a reward one. If you die and the rest of your team makes it out, what do you get? Nothing. The only way you are getting that sweet survival points is through escaping. A good idea for a fix is to reward players a fraction of points from their teammates actions when they are in chase or the killer is camping them.
On the other hand, this runs into the classic issue of this game being a 1v4, not a 1v1. DS was a plague in endgame because the only way to negate it is to get rid of it earlier in the match. Or in other words, tunnel that person. A similar issue happens with OTR, where survivors could use the speed boost from the hit to be safe with no real counter play by the killer.
That is the main reason why it got changed, NO SURVIVOR PERK SHOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE BY THE KILLER. No matter what the perk is, killers should have some way to negate its effects with a reasonable cost. If someone has sprint burst, trick them into wasting it. If someone has BT, go after the unhooker. Survivor perks should be impactful, but never guarantee an escape.
Another thing to mention is the misconception that the game is over once the generators are done, which is not true. The endgame is supposed to be the most dramatic part of the match, with survivor rushing to get the gates open while killers have nothing to lose.
I honestly just think they need to make having your teammates survivor give you, the poor survivor who looped the killer for 5 gens and was left behind, something tangible.
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Like I said, I know just because the gens are finished, it doesn't mean we won the game. However, I agree with you. If I at least got a large chunk of points in other categories, because I ran the killer for 5 gens, I'd feel okay with it, you know? It's like, I get zero escape there, because my teammates don't bring BT anymore, and I get slugged for bleed out, it feels horrible. I feel like I have to perma run BT again, and that is so frustrating for an update that was supposed to resolve this. I just want to run silly / fun builds, but like you said, there is no assumption my teammates will bring anything to protect me, and having OTR solves nothing. So at least getting some sort of decent reward would help.
Unfortunately, they did say that the solo queue updates aren't even on the menu this year. That's painful.
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Disagree. I actually think that perks being dusabled in end game is fine. They had no problem making perks that dusable after a set period at the start of the game (Lethal Pursuer, Corrupt Intervention), and oerks that permanently shut off after set conditions (Lucky Break). So I see no issue with keeping in trend with these types of perks by having some deactivated in the end game. In the case of OTR and DS, it's needed, lest players get free escapes for no reason.
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"I honestly just think they need to make having your teammates survivor give you, the poor survivor who looped the killer for 5 gens and was left behind, something tangible."
Well, they already got evader points, the generator "killer diversion" points, and such. All they lost was the survival points.
I think that survivors who have somebody facecamping them should get generator diversion points as well.
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Perks being disabled by the killer actually killing (or just downing) someone is also not a great trend.
What both of these sort of effects do is punish one side for doing well. The big difference is that survivor perks in the end game make it impossible for the killer to pose any threat at all if they stay on. Killer perks turning off in the early game simply stop the killer from building up any kind of momentum - it's still entirely possible for survivors to come back from it and win.
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