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Game Balance Attempt
I'd appreciate if you would be critical regarding these changes. I would like to cover all angles with this list. Name something you have issue with and let me know why. If something is unclear, let me know that as well.
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Hook Change:
The Killer can no longer grab a healthy survivor unhooking, only an injured survivor can be grabbed.
New Status Effects:
Perseverance:
Upon being unhooked, gain the Perseverance status effect for 60 seconds. While this effect is active, being grabbed or picked up by the Killer will trigger an extended pickup animation of 5 seconds where the survivor will attempt to fight for dear life. Perseverance will disable when being picked up or grabbed, performing a conspicuous action, taking a protection hit, another survivor is hooked, or when the exit gates are powered.
Ties of Light:
When a survivor is hooked, all survivor actions will glow white for survivors for 4 seconds every 12 seconds (4 seconds on, 8 seconds off). The aura will turn from white to yellow based on action progress. This includes healing, totems, generators, and other channeling actions.
Conspicuous Action Change:
Added being healed to healthy to list of conspicuous actions.
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New Item Mechanic:
Relic:
The Relic will spawn within the map upon a survivor being downed. It's aura will be revealed to all and will remain for as long as a single survivor is downed or hooked. The Relic can be picked up and channeled by survivors. Upon channeling, the Relic will pause the bleed-out timer and hook progression of the current downed or hooked survivor. The Relic has a usage duration of 90 seconds and will be removed from the trial when charges are consumed.
The Relic has three potential spawning locations: where the basement did not spawn or one of two exit gates -- it will prefer the furthest location from the current downed or hooked survivor.
If the survivor drops the Relic, it will vanish and respawn so long as a single survivor is downed or hooked. While channeling the Relic, the survivor can move freely but cannot perform any actions (similar to how survivors remove crows by Artist). After channeling, the Relic is bound to that survivor and will prevent the dropping of the Relic for 10 seconds.
While channeling to halt the hook progression and bleed-out timer, the entity becomes enraged, causing all generators to give continuous skill checks (like 'Merciless Storm' without the blocking) after 5 seconds and a sound cue. If a survivor working on a generator misses a skill check, normal regression will be applied along with a loud noise notification for the killer; the continuous skill check will pause for 3 seconds after the failed check attempt.
If the Killer hits the survivor holding the Relic, all generators will be blocked for 15 seconds.
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Perks:
Killer Nerfs:
Generator repair penalties now cap at 25%. This this is to prevent the stacking of gen repairing speed debuff perks.
Current example we will use is Hex: Pentimento and max Thanatophobia, 30% and 22% respectively.
Current Math: 90 c / (1 - (0.30 + (0.30 * 0.22)) c/s = 141.96 s
New Math: 90 c / (1 - 0.25) c/s = 120 s
Eruption:
Generator regression from 10% total to 10% of current progress. Incapacitated affect from 25 s to 16 s.
Fearmonger:
Does not affect Ties of Light aura reading.
Hex: Pentimento:
Reduced Repair speed penalty to 25%.
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance:
Generator regression penalty from 15% total to 15% progress. Added if the generator with the highest progress is currently regressing, that generator regresses by 10% instead of 15%.
Thanatophobia:
Reduces the current penalty from 5.5% to 4.5%.
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Killer Buffs:
Beast of Prey:
Now also removes chase music upon reaching bloodlust.
Blood Echo:
Removed Cooldown
Claustrophobia:
Extended duration of effect from 30 seconds to 90 seconds and can only affect the last generator completed. When the exit gates are powered, the duration will be removed, and the effect will remain indefinitely around the last gen completed.
Death-bound:
Removed the 32 meters away condition.
Fire Up:
Increased stacking gains from 4% to 4.5%. Total increased from 20% to 22.5%.
Furtive Chase:
Now gain a token when a survivor is hooked.
Gearhead:
Now will reveal the aura of great skill checks for 10 seconds, no condition.
Hangman's Trick:
Increased range from 6 m to 8 m.
Hex: Huntress Lullaby:
Totem is now lit upon first hooked survivor.
Hex: Ruin:
Totem is now lit upon survivor letting go of a gen before completion.
Hex: Third Seal
Totem is now lit upon first hit.
Iron Maiden:
Now reveals survivor aura for 4 seconds.
Nemesis:
Increased aura reading from 4 s to 6 s.
Overwhelming Presence:
This effect is now map wide.
Septic Touch:
Survivors now suffer from the oblivious status effect.
Territorial Imperative:
Now reveals the auras of survivors within the basement, no cooldown, no condition.
Unnerving Presence:
Added the increase of Killer terror radius by 8 m.
Unrelenting:
Increased missed attack cooldown reduction from 30% to 40%.
Zanshin Tactics:
The auras will change red for the duration a survivor interacts with them.
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Survivor Buffs:
Blood Pact:
Removed ties to obsession and will now work on the last survivor healed.
Calm Spirit:
Reduced action speed penalty from 30% to 15%. Action now suppresses sounds of pain. Action now silences chest opening.
Clairvoyance:
Now activates upon completing any action on a totem, for up to 5 totems. Interacting with another totem resets the timer. Range is reduced from 64 m to 48m. Duration extended from 10 seconds to 15 seconds.
Corrective Action:
Increase obtainable stacks from 5 to 10.
Guardian:
Extended effect from 8 seconds to 20 seconds. Deactivates on conspicuous action.
Poised:
Effect extended from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
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Killer Balance:
Nurse:
Blink attacks are now considered special attacks and will not trigger basic attack effects from perks.
Add on's:
Kavanagh's Last Breath:
Reduced blink range and charge time from 30% to 16%.
Heavy Panting:
Reduced blink range and charge time from 20% to 8%.
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Blight:
Add on's:
Compound Thirty-Three:
Increased stun duration from 1.5 s to 2.5 s.
Alchemist's Ring:
Upon hitting a survivor with a rush attack, instantly recover half of your rush tokens.
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Spirit:
Add on's:
Mother-Daughter Ring:
Reduced movement speed gains from 40% to 30%.
Kaiun Talisman:
Reduced phasing duration increase from 20% to 12%.
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Sadako:
Can now move freely through windows when demanifested.
Old Newspaper is now base kit with Sadako, percentage increase from 33% to 40% (Increases manifestation invisibility duration).
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Quality of Life:
Consume Blood-Web:
Clicking and holding the center of the blood web for 3 seconds will instantly purchase all addons and randomly give half of the perks available, rounding up. The Blood Points required will be shown upon highlighting the center.
Lobby:
Now hides the survivor character prestige for Killer.
In-game HUD:
Now shows if a survivor is in chase regardless of if they are the obsession with mini entity claws.
Comments
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8 second stuns for picking up a survivor is exactly what this game needs.
Real talk, let's add Kindred to basekit. It's time.
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Yeah, I am hardcore against the idea of tunneling. Fear needs to be instilled haha. The only issue I find with it, stealth gamers after unhooking someone. They hide while the unhooked survivor can't hide. I don't know what to do about that.
And yeah Kindred should have been a thing awhile ago, just a weaker version.
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No matter how you dress them up, halting hook progression and basic free aura reading (outside perks) is still an idea the developer have tried and discarded. Why would it work better this time with showing short flashes? There is very little reason why given in your post.
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I've been playing the game since 2018 and I did not know that, must have been before my time.
The reasoning for it, is the lack of communication between survivors. Survivor doing one gen doesn't know whether to jump off the gen and save or continuing working as they do not know if someone else is getting the save. This is the main complaint from solo queue. Usually, people with more game sense or actively communicating with the other survivors can make this judgement but on the other end are people who do not know.
I can see how that can be a positive thing, it can continue to add to the horror theme of not knowing and panicking. That makes sense to me. Though, that doesn't mean it should be discarded, maybe implemented in another creative way.
Maybe instead of weaker Kindred, go with a weaker Situational Awareness. A sporadic aura reading of the gens currently being worked on, without the survivor aura reading, while someone is on a hook.
I'm ignorant in how these changes could be abused, the hook stage pausing or the gen auras. I can't see it. Why were the other methods discarded in the past?
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Changed Ties of Blood to Ties of Light. Was a Kindred type effect now a Situational Awareness type effect.
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perservance: actually not a horrible idea. could get a bit annoying in the endgame though.
ties of light: seems weird and uneccessary. especially since the devs wanted to add something that shows survivor actions in the hud.
relic: seems too complicated
eruption: maybe reduce the incapacitated time to 16 sec. any weaker and its not worth the effort
pentimento: 20% is enough since it should be easy to get rid of
gop: it just got buffed. its fine imo
pr: only if it gets the explosion back
thana: would make it dead for anyone but legion. how about buffing it to 7%, but capping it at 14%
ds: dont like a 8 sec stun, but its easy to avoid since a stun would be basekit anyways so actually not bad
nurse: special attacks are needed. power nerfs not. range addons itself arent op, if thats all they would do
blight: he has to be able to break pallets with his rush. if not it would take 5-6 seconds to beak a god pallet because cooldowns. also alch ring is weird since 5/2 would be 2.5
spirit: dont care
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Perseverance is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Permanent, basekit DS... now survivors really are literally invincible. Pair it with No Mither and survivors could very easily take the entire game hostage.
Gift of Pain is an anti-camp/anti-tunnel perk, which is already not meta, so why would you want to nerf it? Buff it!
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So, what you're saying is that Survivors should be invincible?
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Planned for it to work like how DS works now, disabled when gates are powered. I think that part of the patch was necessary and it should stay. I just didn't write it.
If they did that, then yeah unnecessary.
Yeah, the Relic, I get that. Hard to bring in new concepts as most players would just ignore them. But it should fix the facecamping.
Fair enough on eruption and pentimento, I just want slowdown to be on the weaker side.
Gift of Pain, Idk. We got pentimento, thana, and gift. Stacking all that penalty is just not healthy. Well if gen repair penalty didn't stack additively but multiplicative, then I'd be absolutely game. Then stacking would have a diminishing return type of effect.
Again, regression with PR. Regression just shouldn't be such a big thing for the game, it's not healthy.
Thana should only be ran by plague and legion anyway. Could be buffed up if slowdown wasn't additive.
DS yeah 8 seconds might be too much. Maybe 6 seconds.
For nurse, I can't agree with you. Have you played against her this patch?
Blight, Yeah I know, only said half because he has an addon where you get more rushes. It should probably round up.
Can ya tell me why Perseverance is? Yes it should disable after exit gates are powered but outside of that?
GoP, I like the perk but it just shouldn't stack with already existing gen penalties. Said above, they should be multiplicative not additive.
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No, not at all. Is it the DS? What is it? I'm game to change anything with reasonable argument.
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Changed how regression penalty is calculated and reverts some of their numbers. Added CoH change. Reduced DS stun to 6 seconds total. Added exit gate powered disabling Perseverance.
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Oh, you got me. I didn't consider No Mither nor Exponential. Damn.
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Alright, what about this change?
Conspicuous Action Change:
Added being healed one health state to list of conspicuous actions.
I feel like that should have been a thing anyway.
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For one, that wouldn't prevent the case of your Perseverance effect being infinitely abuseable for injured survivors.
Secondly, while this would be fair for Off the Record, I don't think it would be fair for DS. Another survivor could use For the People on you, which for OtR is fine, either way you're gaining a health state. But for DS, that activates on pick up, or on grab. You have no control over another survivor healing you, and if they do, you can no longer jump in a locker to force a DS.
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My phone died and I had to wait a bit for it to charge, so by the time I got back, you already changed some of the things I disliked.
One of the things I still don't like is the whole Relic mechanic. It's just a 90 second window of invincibility with no downside when used by "good" Survivors (hitting continuous Skill-Checks isn't hard).
And the unnecessary Killer Perk and base-kit nerfs.
All of the Perks you mentioned, aside from Thanataphobia, are fine and don't need nerfs.
No Killer in the game needs a nerf to their base-kit, Add-Ons at best.
DS also shouldn't stun the Killer for 8 seconds, it's not supposed to stop tunneling, only delay it. An 8 second stun is a pure "tactic-stop". It makes one of the few efficient Killer tactics less efficient, and can also be brought by all Survivors, making it down-right detrimental
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To both of you, what is your opinion on making every non-tile window breakable? Does not include Shack as I consider that a tile.
Also, I appreciate you both giving perspective.
You say abuseable? How could it be abused? The effect is removed upon taking a protection hit.
Your second point, would that not fall under a teamplay mistake then? Yes you cannot control others from healing you, which I think is the correct way to implement it. If someone is able to get to you and heal you, then you are not actively being tunneled out, solving the problem of tunneling.
The Relic thing, I'll work on more. Yeah, you have a point.
Idk, for the killers nerf, I definitely went hard on Blight, and I should revoke that. Nurse, that is a bit debatable. At minimum, the special attack change. The perks, I just don't like slowdown, it should not be the best build ever.
For DS, I'll tone that back to 5 seconds total, with 3 for perseverance.
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lets do some math:
gen has 90 charges and survivors repair at 1 ch/s
if we add 16% slowdown from thana, that goes down to 0.84 ch/s (107.14 seconds for a gen)
if we also add 16% slowdown from gop, thats 0.68 ch/s (132.35 seconds for a gen)
if we also add 30% from pentimento its 0.38 ch/s (236.84 seconds for a gen)
if regression would be multiplied instead of added, it would be
0.84 ch/s (107.14)
0.71 ch/s (127.55)
0.494 ch/s (182,21)
thats certainly a difference
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Making every non-tile Window breakable won't change much, as the worst Windows are the ones that aren't part of a tile.
If by non-tile you also include main building Windows, then I'd agree, as most main building Windows tend to be God Windows.
Slowdowns being meta isn't ideal, but nerfing those type of Perks and not buffing other, more interesting Perks also isn't ideal.
You could buff Preserverance to 4 seconds and DS to only increase the Stun duration by 1 second, as it's still a 5 second Stun, but less of a "bandage"
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No no no no, haha. Think 0.30 + (0.30 * 0.16) = 0.348. Same as how SC and BK stack 0.35 + (0.35 * 0.5) = 0.525
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Yes, absolutely. I mean the main building windows or the ones like Haddonfield houses. I don't consider those tiles. Screw those damn windows.
Are you saying to buff niche perks rather than nerf slowdown? I don't think that would change the best build still being slowdown as extending the game is most valuable for killer. If they aren't that good at slowing down the game, they won't be ran as often. I do absolutely agree that some perks need a buff, like Gearhead should just reveal auras of great skills checks and not have the condition, there are so many and I am scare to go down that road haha.
I was thinking that, the base ds to 4 but then I feel you shouldn't be able to use it again after than. The small stuns are annoying, which is suppose to be the discouraging factor. Sometimes you can make it to a pallet with that stun, sometimes you can't, that is why having it multiple times seems more ideal.
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If you want slowdowns to not be the meta, you'd want to nerf those Perks, and also buff more unique Perks at the same time. That's what I meant.
3.5 second base and 1.5 more with DS?
As currently proven, 3 seconds is too little, but if 4 seconds are too much, then maybe 3.5 would work
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Yea I agree with ya. Would like to see more creative builds from killer anyway.
And yeah, I like those numbers.
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Added Breakable Windows, adjusted the DS and Perseverance Timers, Removed some of the Nurse and Blight Nerfs.
I'll start adding in some of the killer niche perk buffs.
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doesnt make any sense to me. if i have 2 * 16% slowdown that would be 0.16+(0.16 * 0.16) = 0.185
why should 16% and 16% = 18.5%?
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I'm not sure of the purpose of breakable windows. Window vaulting and pallets are the only terrain that survivors can traverse faster than killers by default. It will never be in the interest of the killer to open a breakable window intentionally.
It'd be like if basement hooks only spawned if survivors agreed unanimously in the match lobby. Might as well delete them.
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They mean it's by default a window, and you break it to make it a doorway.
But all that is, is a pallet that's already down. A pallet that starts off dropped, all that's doing is robbing survivors of a chance to stun the killer.
Frankly, having a breakable door next to a window, like the Saloon, already accomplishes this change.
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Why does Botany work with Self Care the way it does? I could be wrong with my wording but I feel if healing speed has a diminishing return then generator repair penalties should also have a diminishing return.
I'll reword my entry to make it address diminishing returns rather than how I initially stated it.
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think i got it now: 0.35 (the charges per second) * 1.5 (1 + the increase or 1 - the reduction) = 0.525
this means that with 16% thana and 16% gop thats 1 * 0.84 = 0.84 * 0.84 = 0.7056 (like i had before)
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The need arises due to maps like Haddenfield and Garden of Joy. The windows with the houses are easily abusable with no counterplay for the killer, unless you are trapper, nurse.
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Ok that makes more sense. I read it as a window blocked by wood that a killer would have to shatter to create an open window.
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If they added this to Haddonfield, I'd be less inclined to push for it. It'd still be a headache, but not an infinite headache.
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My mistake, I'll edit for clarity.
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Check out the perk changes, added quite a few.
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They're good, but I have 2 I'm on the fence about.
Bitter Murmur:
Generators reaching 90% are now highlighted yellow for the killer for 5 seconds or until completed.
Claustrophobia:
Generators reaching 90% are now highlighted yellow for the killer for 5 seconds or until completed.
They shouldn't have the same effect, and that effect is already covered by Tinkerer.
I don't think Bitter Murmur really needs any changes, it does its job well, but gets outclassed by Perks that activate more frequently.
Claustrophobia should block all Windows near the completed Generator indefinitely, until a different Generator is finished, aswell as breaking all dropped Pallets.
I think it wouldn't be an overpowered effect, as it only activates 5 times, and whenever it does activate, the Killer usually isn't nearby to make use of the Perk, and even if the Killer is nearby, looping a Survivor around a completed Generator is a waste of time
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a lot of good balance changes in the perk section
not too sure I like the relic mechanic but it looks like a nice way to counter camping
i like DS basekit, always wanted that; I'd also take any solution to tunneling that isnt DS basekit but whatever
breakable windows sound like a better version of breakable walls because there is never any situation where NOT breaking the wall is better than breaking it since vaults favor survivors
Ties of Light sounds neat but not enough. There needs to be more communication in order to lift up soloQ to swf or else balancing this game will be impossible.
not too sure about being healed being a conspicuous action
i like the killer changes; missing that blight should only be a 110% killer though. extremely high mobility and versatility with no downside but a cooldown needs to be weaker imo
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Yeah, you're right. I figured giving a notification before activation would help in getting value out of it, but it was rather lazy of me haha.
Damn that sounds scary with Claustrophobia. Maybe just extend the duration then. From 30 seconds to 90 seconds and will only affect the last gen completed.
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Ties of Light maybe affects all actions then? Example, highlighting a totem, or healing survivors.
Being healed as a conspicuous action is necessary to prevent exponential or no mither abuse. Also, OTR should disable on being fully healed anyway.
I can agree to that blight change, that sounds like a good change. I was on the fence about it before. I took away his ability to break pallets with his rush, but that might have been too much.
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Changed Ties of Light. Added more Killer perk changes.
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Added interruption of the Relic.
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90 seconds for the first four Generators and indefinitely when the last one is finished? I could get behind that
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Haha, sure.
Added survivors perks in as well.
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That Clairvoyance buff is scary.
I'd probably remove the empty-handed conditions, reduce the range to 48 Meters and increase the duration to 15-20 seconds.
I think having to cleanse a Totem for it to activate is fine, but it'd be better (and would fit with Mikaela more) if it also actived whenever you blessed a Totem, but only once (maybe once per Totem), so you can't just get it to work an infinite amount of times
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Haha, oops. Yeah I guess that is a bit much. I'll make the change.
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What about, range 48m, duration 15 s, and after completing any interaction with a totem? It can be done up to 5 times.
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Sounds reasonable
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exponential and no mither abuse exists?
imo those dont exist.
No Mither gives you a big enough downside to be okay to be "abused" and exponential you can kick the totem. I see no reason to add healing to conspicuous actions
I think OtR should instead deactivate on protection hits. That way you can get healed, profit from the anti-tunneling benefits and not take 2 hits for a teammate.
the problem with Ties of Light is that it gives too little info, even with other actions added to it. While it is an organic idea that could be put in the game today without any new things that need to be added, it just does not do a good enough job to decrease the gap between swf and soloQ.
A system that would show what your teammates are doing at all times + some sort of callout system like sending short preset messages (Stuff like "I am unhooking", "Killer Nearby", "Gen nearly done") or a ping system would be lovely.
It would be a good solution before a more in-depth system is implemented.
I think it s fine if Blight breaks pallets with his ability. If he couldnt do that he'd drop B or C-Tier since simply dropping a pallet while he s using his power would make it so he could not reach the survivor at all + has to go through the cooldown of his rushes + has to break the pallet.
Imo he needs add-on nerfs + base movement speed decrease. If it worked to tone down spirit, it should work on blight as well
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a predropped pallet is better than an infinite.
some breakable walls are literally that alread. nearly every wall in the dead dwag's saloon main building is basically a predropped pallet.
a more straightforward variant of a breakable wall seems nice
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I don't think there should be a way to take advantage of game mechanics ever, regardless of the downsides. No mither, boil over on certain maps highlight that if something can be abused it will be. I can see the argument for OTR, but it can come in clutch sometimes when the killer has exposed on the survivors and I think that play should be kept.
Haha, you might have to give survivors pagers then, which wouldn't be all that ridiculous. Channel something while empty handed to communicate with the other survivors in the trial.
I don't think he would drop down that far, he would just feel less fun to play. When he is forced to break the pallet, he can just rush and catch up pretty much instantly anyway. But the problem lies will how bad that would feel playing him. Yeah I agree with the add ons.
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Shoot some more buffs on the niche perks. I'm game to add them in, killer or survivor.
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By and large I think these perk changes are mostly decent, a few I would have some minor quibbles with but nothing that I'd want to devote time to in a response that's sure to be lengthy enough on its own lol. I feel the same way about the killer changes too-- I honestly don't think Nurse should have range or recharge addons at all given how strong her power is without those benefits, but reducing what she has down to something more manageable is a perfectly legitimate angle. Making her attacks special attacks is also long overdue.
Blight and Spirit I don't have the knowledge to speak on confidently, but I do know people want those addons nerfed so attempting to tackle them at all is another plus. Good stuff there!
Now, on to the meat of the suggestions- the new mechanics and basekit changes!
I'll tackle them in order here:
Breakable Windows: I am somewhat wary about making this a blanket thing for all non-tile windows (by which I assume you mean things like Haddonfield house windows?), because I think some of those are probably going to be a problem if they're broken. If nothing else it'd do pretty dramatic damage to a survivor's options on Lery's, haha. Still, the idea of it is pretty sound so it could easily be something folded into maps alongside non-tile windows like breakable walls were- I'd like to see it tested before I sign off but the idea is interesting.
Perseverance: A basekit version of DS isn't the worst idea in the world, but I am somewhat concerned as to how easy it would be to abuse. With the Conspicuous Actions change it'd be mediated a little, but I'd also want to suggest adding entering a locker to the list, just so people can't force a stun aggressively. Once again, it'd need testing, but the idea isn't inherently ridiculous-- DS only hits you if you're tunnelling in the majority of cases, and this would be no different.
Ties of Light: If I'm reading this right, this is basically a budget Kindred for solo queue players, right? An indication at steady intervals as to where your teammates are, so you can make an informed decision? I'm not against it but I'd rather just see the teammate aura of Kindred made basekit, and have the perk also show the killer's aura. I respect attempting to give Kindred use still, but I think it's one of those perks that should be used less often than it is, because it's a perk that people feel they need instead of one they want to bring.
The Relic: This one I need a bit more explanation on- is this a static object, or an item you can pick up? Either way, I'm not quite sure what the idea is supposed to be-- anti-camp, I think? Something to force the killer away from the hook so they can chase the Relic's holder and get generator blocking, in exchange for letting survivors get a save? If that's the goal, it's interesting, but needs a little more refining. My assumption is that the skill checks are meant to be what gives the killer some direction to move towards, but I don't like that one player can mess up their teammates by picking up the Relic when they don't expect it- instead of that, how would you feel about the Relic's holder having their aura revealed to the killer? That way the killer is pushed towards the place where they'd get clear and obvious value, and there's a little risk associated with being the one that holds the Relic.
If I've misunderstood any of that do let me know!
Overall, I think these ideas have legs. With some refining they'd be quite viable.
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