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Base Kit DS?
Before anyone says it, yes, I'm aware the developers stated somewhere in the past that they weren't looking into base kit DS.
However, tunneling and camping have been a hot topic of discussion as of late. So, I just wanted to see what people think in general. (focusing on tunneling on this post)
I personally think giving DS the "Borrowed Time" treatment would be a good idea moving forward. Maybe a 45 second timer and 4 second stun, while the perk itself increases the effects to 90 seconds and 6 second stun respectively. DS is (for the most part) avoidable as a killer so I believe having a longer timer and more punishing stun would hopefully de-incentivize killers from tunneling more.
Comments
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Hehe, you should read my post.
Tunneling - Camping - Balance — Dead By Daylight
I go at it with a heavy hand haha.
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Just make the perk worth running if you want to counter tunnelling. Right now you might as well just bring another perk and hope you last longer in chase
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Tunnelling and Camping are killer choices and behaviours.
Tools for survivors to punish these choices are not the best way to deal with them as it just becomes an arms race. As is apparent with every other survivor tool against camping/tunnelling, killers determined to camp and tunnel will just eat through them. What's more, is it just convinces killers to camp and tunnel even more. Why deal with an anti-tunnel perk like DS when you can eliminate them with a single hook? Survivor has Off the Record? Well I'll hit them to trigger it, then they don't have it anymore, so I'll hit them again!
The best anti-camp and anti-tunnel tools have and will always be; effective killer perks that incentivise not camping/tunnelling.
BBQ & Chilli (RIP)
Devour Hope
Make Your Choice
Pain Resolution before this update... (the info was infinitely more valuable than the regression, they nerfed the wrong part)
Even Ruin, because in order to get value out of it you have to actually pressure gens.
Perks that hinder survivors after being rescued, like Gift of Pain. If this perk was strong enough, it might be able to compete with the likes of Thanatophobia, and then killers would be incentivised to allow unhooks to happen.
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I'm okay with basekit DS if it is disabled after you hook another survivor and after all the generators are done.
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No that doesn't make sense because it would try and prevent tunnelling which would make solo queue more enjoyable and that's not what devs want, don't be silly.
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Another tool survivors have to punish camping and tunneling is info. Basekit kindred would be amazing in average to high MMR games. Low MMR players wouldnt know what to do with the info, but that's a skill issue, and the killers they face aren't good.
Plenty of killers can't completely prevent an unhook, but they can trade. Note that BT in this update gives a 15s Endurance + 7% haste.
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That I agree with. More info for survivors can only be good, because at a point it becomes superfluous for SWF, while still benefitting solos.
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LMAO, You're right, my mistake.
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Yeah perhaps that could be a solid inclusion too, if you hooked another person you're obviously not tunneling.
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Lmao 6s stunlock. You are dreaming.
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I see no reason as to why we can't have both be implemented, no? There should be perks or incentives for killers to not play in an Un-fun way, likewise it should be very punishing if you do, if the strategy as a whole is unviable no one that wants to win would do it, no?
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Perhaps I am, but as someone who plays killer mostly with some solo Q survivor on the side, I know how frustrating it can be to be hard focused out of the game. It's painful to wait 5-10 minutes in que to be out of the game in less time.
I just want the game to be fun for both sides.
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That's a fair point. The presence of DS and OtR aren't bad in themselves. But they don't prevent camping and tunnelling. The idea that these perks and perks like them need to be stronger to prevent camping and tunnelling is the fallacy, which just propagates the arms race.
It ultimately comes down to the fact that camping and tunnelling are not 100% always a toxic, unfair tactic. Sometimes they are valid moves for the killer to make. So what happens when a valid camping situation gets hit with an anti-camping sledghammer? Killers find it unfair, complain, the back and forth continues.
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I understand that was the point of this patch, and for the most part I do believe it was a good patch. However, DS is, for the most part, entirely avoidable on the killer's part. Why would you be opposed to it being base kit? It can't extend chases or give a second chance unless you as the killer put yourself into that situation.
Alternatively, what would you do instead to try and de-incentivize tunneling?
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Fair points brought up in return, in my honest opinion the only time camping/tunneling is fair is once the exit gates are powered, the killer has basically lost all generators, and thus, lost all objectives besides hooks that are worth defending. There might be some niche situations aside from that but I think (I may also be wrong) at the moment this could be a good idea moving forward.
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Idk about base but the stun should revert back to 5 secs especially since it disables end game. It was so easy to catch up after 3 secs wondering why they even use the perk.
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Camping:
> When the survivors all rush the hook as you're hooking.
> When you leave the hook, find a survivor, and they run you back to the hook.
> When you're chasing a survivor nearby the hook, and they loop you around it.
> When you're leaving the hook and spot a survivor approaching, maybe they're being stealthy, maybe not, either way you've seen them.
> When the survivor is hooked in the middle of a three gen, placing all potential objectives in one small area.
> When two survivors are flanking you to bait you into leaving the hook so one can go for the rescue.
All cases where camping is the survivors fault, and usually due to survivors being headstrong and arrogant, because they either know they can't be touched, or because they feel entitled to an unhook and if they don't get it it's because the killer is playing "unfairly" which justifies their actions.
Tunnelling:
> When a survivor is unhooked but the unhooker vanishes and the unhooked survivor runs towards you, accidentally or not.
> When the unhooked survivor intentionally body blocks you.
> When a recently unhooked survivor accidentally crosses your path later on, and you don't see any other survivors.
> When a recently unhooked survivor wants to use DS so they pester you to chase them and down them.
All cases where tunnelling is not the killers fault.
Survivors tend to forget just how much control they have over the game, when it is their actions and mistakes that dictate what opportunities the killer has.
Then you have the end-game scenarios. Where the killer has no other objectives but the hooked survivor, so they camp, or the unhooked survivor is the only injured survivor, so they tunnel.
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Honestly, having the stun reverted would be fin by my book too. As for gen speeds, too early to tell for me.
Yeah, I understand there are people who do it specifically to be un-fun, but those players shouldn't also win as a result in my opinion. I also agree there are legitimate scenarios to camp and tunnel, but at the moment, at least to me, if feels like it can be too easy too tunnel in some instances. Again, I could be completely wrong, I'm mostly just pitching ideas.
Camping is a whole other story and I don't know how to fix that issue unfortunately.
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5s stun on DS would be fine really. The main issue of it being active at end game is gone, it's fixed.
I'd also be in favour of removing the ability to grab survivors from unhook attempts. This doesn't really add anything to the game, it's another standoff scenario where neither survivor nor killer wants to be the first to act. Without this as an option, the killer would just be forced to whack you as fast as possible, which simultaneous raises the stakes for both sides away from any stand-off mechanic, and makes a hook trade far more likely.
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For the camping section I agree that all of those are legitimate reasons to be near the hook. I didn't want to tackle camping in this discussion, but the main concern with camping is when people do it in situations where there is no other objective or reason to stay near the hook other than to camp for the sake of camping.(I.E. you know through perks or any other reason that no one is near the hook and you camp/facecamp)
For tunneling, yeah those are all instances where as the killer you don't have a choice but to go for the same person, and in that situation it would be quite unfortunate to be hit with a DS stun.
I know my idea isn't perfect but I just want to make tunneling (in situations where you don't have to) not be the ideal play. I don't honestly know what else the developers could do, and I don't envy the developers for potentially having to try and think of something.
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Upvoted you for the unhook grab being removed, like the idea, hope they implement one day.
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