FACECAMPING EXPERIMENT - 36 game win streak
EDIT: streak continued up to 36 (I lost the 37th game)
INTRO
I'm a 300 hour player (mostly survivor). Since I cannot play solo queue anymore without becoming insane, I decided I would wait for next patch, but meanwhile I've started to play killer on a fresh account, and experimenting what it would look like if I try as hard as I can to be a d*** (mostly by facecamping and tunneling the same player).
Admittedly because it's a fresh account I started with low MMR - I didn't really want to ruin the reputation of my main account just to prove a point - but I don't have a lot of experience with killer so it should not be too far from my "skill" if I were to play normally. However, you will see that skill is not really the point here.
Now let's make it short, I have played 18 games so far, and every single game has had exactly 0 ESCAPE from survivors. In fact, survivors never even managed to complete the last gen, so it was not very close, although they went down to 1 gen several times.
So, that's a 18 win streak - and judging by my last games, there's no sign that it's ending soon. By the way, I'm no small man like Otzdarva, a win for me means ALL SURVIVORS DIE - NOT EVEN HATCH. Of course it's a d*** challenge so I feel like giving hatch would be unappropriate.
Since people will legitimately doubt my claims, I have recorded videos of most of these matches, but I'll make a short summary for each game so you don't have to watch it, and if you're used to solo queue, I'm sure lots of these games will look familiar.
Note: if someone can tell me how to check my kill/escape ratio (which should be at 100%) that would be great, so I can share the proof that there was no other match between them where I could have lost.
LINK TO VIDEOS
I uploaded everything on Youtube, but for your convenience as said I have a "breakdown" section below where I will sum them up.
Fellow survivor mains, I know it is disgusting, but I HIGHLY encourage you to watch some of these games. Check the BREAKDOWN section.
STRATEGY / BUILD
Simple gameplay, here are the main ideas:
Step 1: patrol gens and try to find a survivor quickly. This is the most critical step. Be sneaky, don't waste time in loops, switch target if needed.
Step 2: facecamp the survivor until they die (be patient)
Step 3: if other survivors manage to unhook, keep tunneling the same survivor, wait 5-10 sec to bait endurance. When survivors attempt to unhook, avoid hitting them as experienced survivors will try to bait you, ideally, try to grab them while they unhook.
Step 4 (optional): once 1 survivor is dead it's pretty easy to finish the game usually, but if you want to guarantee 4K, camp the 3 gens that are closest to each other, injure survivors so they all make noise, exploit their altruism so you can get them all down, only hook them AFTER they are all down, so they can't get the hatch.
VIDEO EXAMPLE 1 FOR THE "FACECAMP" STEP (from game 2)
VIDEO EXAMPLE 2 FOR THE "TUNNELING" STEP (from game 9)
I also have some particularly obnoxious games that demonstrate the "exploit altruism" step but since this is optional and particularly toxic let's skip that part.
BREAKDOWN
Here is a summary of each game, with a video link (time stamped directly to the most interesting part).
First game of the show, good to demonstrate the strategy. Started with Trapper as I thought he would be a good facecamper. Found Claudette quickly then stayed right in front of the hook . Nobody went to help her, so she DC'd after about 1 minute (5 gens left) leaving the game 3v1, her teammates were not fast enough with gens and it was relatively easy to finish.
Result: 4 kills, 1 gen left
A slightly better fight from survivors, showing that some are used to facecamping killers. Note that I have now switched to Nurse to increase the chance of DCs (this is my first game with Nurse - hope that it's obvious from the gameplay). I started to facecamp Leon but this time his team managed to distract me away from the hook, regardless I ended up getting a grab on the person who attempted to unhook and win easily.
Result: 4 kills, 5 gens left
Another very altruistic lobby, survivors try very hard to prevent me from tunneling David and even manage to successfully make me lose him, so I hook and camp Feng instead. Survivors try to save her too but this time I manage to down all of them.
Quite a sad game to be honest as I missed almost every blink and yet the whole game still ends in 5 minutes because survivors were too altruistic.
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
Not a very interesting game. I camp David, survivors make quick attempts at saving him but soon give up. David dies at 4 gens (!!). From there the game is easy to finish (although it takes me 7 more minutes to find the remaining survivors).
Result: 4 kills, 2 gens left
A very sad game as survivors really try to save their teammate but end up losing everything for it. Very touching survivors and merciless game from me, do not watch if you're faint-hearted. On a side note, I think this game illustrates well how disgusting you can play if you want to deny survivors the hatch: the game is clearly over after 3 min 30 s, yet it still takes me 15 more minutes to finish the last 3 survivors and ensure no one gets the hatch.
Result: 4 kills, 1 gen left
- Game 6: https://youtu.be/3zdffOIFdS8
Very poor game from both sides, not much to say about it. Bad SWF, bad gameplay from me (Note: following the previous game, I equipped Whispers to have a easier time finding the remaining 3 survivors - I will later switch to "Spies from the Shadows")
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
- Game 7: https://youtu.be/KVfalvEuHvQ?t=7
Another sad game. Hooked Nea right after start, someone DC's 30 seconds later, leaving everybody else hopeless. Survivors acted so cute that I considered letting them win and cancelling the game but eh, he DC'd after the hook so it's not really my fault, and I don't feel like that's what the majority of killers do when playing against me, so no mercy.
Result: 4 kills, 5 gens left
Best survivors I've faced so far, now the MMR finally went a bit up. This is a very telling game, worth watching as a whole (Warning: it is also very triggering, if you're a survivor main)
Here I found Cheryl quickly, but she was clearly a good player, so I gave up the chase and went for her teammates instead. I started to tunnel Kate, but only after a long chase, and by the time I hooked her for the first time there were only 2 gens remaining. From there it should be a loss for me, but as usual solo queuers try too hard to save their teammates and end up losing their advantage. Kate dies while Nancy attempts hoplessly to save her. By the time I hook Nancy still 2 gens remain. Nancy gets saved while I get greedy and damage a nearby gen, gives a fight and has DS which makes me lose time, but still not enough for her teammates to finish the remaining gens.
Result: 4 kills, 1 gen left
A rather easy game. Got Ash quickly, but his team tried hard to save him, bodyblocking, tanking hits etc. I could still tunnel him and get the other survivors shortly after.
Result: 4 kills, 4 gens left
- Game 10: https://youtu.be/fpAeqoe6C20?t=160
Another sad game. Clearly low MMR survivors, game was already over after 3 minutes when I grabbed the person who tried to unhook.
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
- Game 11: https://youtu.be/_siSwVFuDaw?t=241
Now this is the first truly heartbreaking game. Likely a SWF stack as these girls played very altruistic and 2 of them had the exact same skin, one Claudette even tried to disguise as the other so I would hook her instead when they were all down. Everybody tried to save the tunneled survivor but did not manage.
Result: 4 kills, 2 gens left
- Game 12: https://youtu.be/4QIOAuqHcys?t=55
Low MMR survivors, caught Claudette in 1 minute, very easy game, except for one thing: I tried to end the match too quickly at the end and almost gave Cheryl a chance to get hatch, this could have ended the streak.
Result: 4 kills, 3 gens left
- Game 13: https://youtu.be/lFNeHigQ_q8?t=73
Regular tunneling game, caught Mikaela, camped her, teammates ended up being grabbed while saving her.
Result: 4 kills, 2 gens left
Absolutely heartbreaking game. Tunneled Claudette but Nea managed to skillfully bait me and unhook her without getting grabbed (which shows just how often solo queue players have to face it). Claudette rage quitted, seeing what happened, survivors gave up and/or tried to act cute.
Conclusion
I humbly ask you, DbD game developers, to do me a favor and watch some of these games, especially game 14, and tell me if that matches your vision of how the game should be played, because actually, it matches what I've been getting lately as a solo queue survivor.
I trust that you have data that shows that the game is not killer-sided so I will refrain from debating balance, in fact I don't doubt that SWFs and/or the combination of old DS/BT/DH was too strong in some circumstances.
However, what seems clear to me, is that:
- The game may be not killer-sided, or survivor-sided, but it is definitely tryhard-sided. I think this echoes what Otzdarva said in a video: "DBD is extremely survivor-sided ?". Basically, your game can be fun under the assumption that people will play nice, but the rules and balance of the game do not prevent you to be extremely toxic. For example, camping a hooked survivor is seen as a d* move by most of the community, and yet managing to land a grab on someone who tries to unhook was multiple times a game-winning move for me.
- The game is full of anti-fun mechanics for survivors: very long gens that people don't want to do, one shot mechanics like NOED or grabbing a survivor who attempts to unhook, having to rely on killer's kindness to get hatch, survivor having to wait 4 minutes on ground if killer doesn't want to pick them up (hatch again), etc. Killers do not have to face such mechanics, and most importantly, do not rely on 3 random teammates to play the game.
- MMR doesn't work. I've played many PvP games, it seems unconceivable to me to get a 18 win streak against human players. Just think of it. 18 games x 4 kills each = 72 survivors dead. That's a LOT of people time wasted so that just one guy can have fun (me).
So, I don't know if I will continue playing and see if I can achieve longer streak, but ultimately, what has made me stop playing for now, is not toxic survivors, Dead Hard, DS, it is not gen rushing nor SWFs, ultimately the thing that makes me stop playing is just how heartbreaking some of the games must have been for survivors. If you've been in one of these games I hope you understand and wish you a nice day.
Comments
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play bubba and we can have 100% win rates regardless of what survivors we go against, and it's been a thing before or after the patch.
Face camping is an unintended mechanics that they are TRYING to fix for long time (which didn't succeeded for some reason), using that isn't really a good measure for anything.
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Hi. This is a commendable effort. You made a claim and put up evidence for others to review.
Going over the matter itself, this strategy is already known and, in a certain sense, it was already demonstrated. It's just that when this is brought up, the mob just starts parroting the "just do gens and leave" litany, without realizing that this is not 2017 anymore and that counter no longer works.
With the new patch, many who knew how the game works, called it right away that the changes basically put survivors in lose-lose scenarios. If the killer is bringing the right build and is simply willing to camp and tunnel to death, the results you got are suddenly to be expected and nothing out of the ordinary.
How can this be dealt with? Typically, bhvr is reluctant to make structural changes. Imho the simplest way would be to remove hook grabs and interruptions (basically, it would work like killer pick-ups, the animation lock is instantaneous and can't be canceled, but the unhooker still takes damage). That makes it impossible to 'camp' two people by playing the grab game. And the hook trade is still viable. That and probably increase the hook timer as well.
bUt WhY sHoULd I Be pUniShEd 4 uNsaFe uNhOoKS, some killers may ask. Well, why should survivors be punished because circling the hook is what you call 'patrolling'? Punishing has nothing to do with it. It's about making an interaction balanced. And, currently, hardcore camping isn't. If you want to punish them, you take the 1-for-1.
Post edited by Mandy on44 -
- you are playing against complete beginners, since you are a beginner as a killer yourself
- in higher ranks, your facecamping killer play would be completely obliterated, since people would pop gens and escape while you are hugging your one and only hook. Of course killers with experience know all this and they will not waste time with a single survivor and will keep up the pressure on all of them. But you are a beginner trying to troll other beginners. Not an actual "experiment"
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This is why I keep saying they need to add voice chat or at least a ping system.
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I'm not a beginner and facecampers get at least a free 3k after the patch.
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You are. and you are playing in very low ranks against 90% total newbs. I can tell you, your face camping idea wouldn't work, and most people would get away in higher ranks. You are mostly playing against clueless people. You can chose any killer for me and I go there perkless and still get 4 kills without any effort, because they are so bad at this in low ranks. I know it because I haven't played for a long time, since I lost my job during Covid, and now I started again, and in such low ranks, they manage to pop 1-2 gens at most before I kill them all, every single time. Without even trying.
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They failed to adress camping it's even stronger now, people told them on PTB that it was a direct buff to camping... first simple thing they can do without completely changing the game is removing hookgrabs
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1. Yes, the game is always going to be try hard favored. Simply put if in a PvP game one side does more their best to win than the other they most likely will win. What is the alternative, if you do your best to win ... You should lose to people just meming around?
2. Both sides do things the other side doesn't like. It is a PvP game and if you don't like the base mechanics of the game, maybe you just don't like the game?
3. You started at the lowest point, play a measely 18 games on a brand new account. Go look at the hardcore survivor series of Otz, Dowsey, JRM and Aryun they double or triple the amount of games before they get anywhere near decent opponents.
Solo survivors needs buffs, they really need the additional info they promised.
Hook times should be upped to match the new gen times.
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300 hours player, mostly as survivor, and are you not a beginner? Man, you're such a beginner.
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Marigoria was not the original poster.
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Yeah camping is a pretty reliable crutch.
Specially at lower mmrs.
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OP, please keep going. People are defaulting to it being due to low MMR. I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm curios to see how far this takes you. At some point or another you'll either hit a wall or prove your point and I'm very curios to see the outcome.
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This. OP isn't there yet. Keep going.
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300 hours? I'm not OP. I'm almost at 6k hours.
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Credit where credit is due, you actually did proper research and provided evidence for why you believe what you believe, genuinely, well done
as for the 3 points you’ve made, I have no disagreements, except with the 3rd one, after all, a system can’t exactly be dysfunctional if it doesn’t exist to begin with
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bro... you do realize that good solos dont exist right?XD that extremely rare and someone somewhere wants altruism so yeah facecamping does work. maybe not for 4k but it still works. and facecamping guarantees 2 kills if you can catch survivors fast enough
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That's just not true. With gens being 90 seconds now, camping even got buffed. The first down is crucial, but if you can get a down fast enough, you have pretty much a guaranteed kill. And that means you will be getting at least 2 kills with very little effort, if you don't suck at killer that is.
However, killers can throw on Deadlock and NOED, and pretty much guarantee a 3K. Especially if you pick a killer like Leatherface as well. It's absolutely ridiculous.
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This may be a cause for concern... If you weren't playing against brand new survivors who have no idea what they are doing. This is like me saying a job is too hard for everyone at my plant because I based it off of a group of new people who haven't even been trained.
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Nope. I did actually the same experiment for a few couple of games a few days ago as bubba main (usually I prefer to chase people).
(4000 hours in general, about 200 on Bubba)
Results: I won everytime I facecamped.
Survivors just didnt have enough time to finish all the gens and died trying to unhook the camped person.
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300 hours survivor main. You're a baby beginner who has no business doing these "killer experiments" lol.
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I did same experiment a few days ago on high mmr. I won every single game, when I decided to camp from the very beginning. I stopped cuz I got bored after 5 or 6 matches.
It's not even best build. With deadlock I would be even more efficient.
If you get a down quickly, there is no way for survivors to finish all the gens before the person on the hook hits struggle or dies. And they can't do a save unhook either.
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Bubba could do the exact same thing before the patch.
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OP, ignore everyone telling you that you're too inexperienced, or a baby survivor main.
I posted earlier, and I say again, keep going.
The MMR system will either catch up to you sooner or later, which will result in you hitting a wall and being proven wrong...
Or, you'll keep winning and have (maybe) an insurmountable amount of data, that people could not possibly chop up to "only having 300 hours". (Which to be frank, is small compared to some veterans, but by no means a small investment. I reckon most don't have that amount invested into half of their games. I certainly do not.)
I don't know what you'll get, and I'm not hoping for any particular result, but I am deeply curios.
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Before the update survivors actually had a chance to finish all the gens within the 120 seconds a person dies on hook. With new 90 seconds gens, Deadlock and Thana it't even way more easier to camp and get free wins.
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It shouldn't matter whether or not the player is a "beginner". The question is why face camping is a viable strategy AT ALL. In what capacity can that even be called gameplay? Is it FUN?
My solution would be to have a progress bar slowly rise when the killer is close to hook. When the progress bar reaches maximum, the entity moves the survivor to another hook. Think of Pyramid head cage mechanic. It's also a way for killers to waste survivors time by going to hook when they're trying to unhook, so it moves to a new location.
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I will never understand why people try to defend this playstyle.
It is sad that BHVR has been so slow to address such a massive problem in the game's dynamic, and I can only imagine it is because there are enough people on these forums and on social media preaching "it's necessary" and "it belongs in the game" for the devs to think posts like these are a vocal minority.
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The community tried to warn BHVR that longer gens will buff camping.
They should've listened.
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Would making gens 85 seconds instead of 90 fix these problems?
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Or they don't know the best way to fix it without breaking the game
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The game is broken now
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"We have noticed that SoloQ and SWF have a roughly 15% difference between escape rate, so in the future, we will try and bring those ratios closer together"
Proceeds to nerf SoloQ.
"We have noticed that people bring perks to avoid unfun gameplay"
Proceed to nerf said perks, buff said gameplay and give "counters" that are worthless.
Pretty. Good. Job.
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We already know it wouldn't, this was a problem with 80 second gens too.
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I played 72 people, you think all of them are "brand new survivors"? You think I'd still get "brand new survivors" after winning that many games?
I don't think you realize how many games that is, so here is a little visualization:
For context, if I won 72 matches in a row in other games like Chess, my Elo would be the same as the World Champion.
The reality is, those are not "brand new survivors". Those are normal survivors, the majority of people who play the game. On top of it some of them were prestige 10+, had DS, DH, OTR and were good loopers, watch game 8.
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Pro Vengeance is higher than Devotion 30 and plays the same one. Post-MMR, he's still going on 100-game win streaks on low-tier killers. Killer can guarantee a win against anything other than a 3- or 4-man, tryhard SWF as long as the right perks and dirty playstyles are there. Killer's broken.
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It shouldn't just be a magical number. Every buff killer got was either 10% or 10 seconds. Change doesn't work like that. Small changes can make huge differences.
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Nah your small man not giving hatch.
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I think this is both sad and fascinating.
I think this is a noble effort, and honestly I think if the devs don't know by now (it's where the sad part comes in) this is what they created. While I don't want to point fingers, I do not blame killers who do this because they are playing with what they are given. DBD developers chose not to adjust this playstyle the more the game was changing and evolving.
You are a 300 hr player, while some of us sitting at over 7,000 hours still struggle to understand how this is even still in the game. So I cannot even begin to imagine what new players are experiencing let alone the ones that start solo. Your post just gave us a look into what happens.
I love that you mention the part about unfun mechanics. I think that hits at the core of this game, because when you think about that being in the game PLUS the way other RNG aspects/elements screw you also....it is no longer a fun game. Winning isn't and shouldn't be everything. Many of us have said we would gladly die more if it meant we had a fun match. Staring at a killer through 2 struggle phases however, is not fun.
I don't know exactly why they refuse to change the way hooks work, but I really hope this perks their ears up. Because they are going to lose those of us that are already hanging by the last sliver of hope.
Props to you OP for putting this together.
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Coordinated squads literally dominate with 80 seconds. 90 seconds sets them back by a little which is a good thing. But solo q gets worst as a result. I guess buffing solo q is the answer.
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Corrupt + Deadlock + Monstrous Shrine + Agitation with Bubba
Hook 1st survivor in the basement, stay 24m away from it (around 5 seconds of walking) and camp. Survivors can't save without you downing them and MS grants faster entity progression now and Deadlock + 50 extra seconds to gens will guarantee survivors can't finish all gens before the 1st person dies. Enjoy free 4k.
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Im going to try this built on bubba I usually only use built which allows me to carry survivors very far away into the basement.
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Considering most of them aren't even having proper perks, probably not very old survivors at least.
Except it doesn't for camping.
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Wow, you made a new account to not ruin your "reputation" of your other one? Yeah, cause people will definitely remember and care who you are 😒
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Ok, so if I leave the hook right away but a survivor comes in when I'm not even like 6 feet away, am I allowed to come back to the hook and "punish" the unhooking, or do they both go free?
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I do like your enthusiasm for this experiment, but i have to agree with what most people have pointed out here.
You disagree yet it is the truth, you are a beginner.
You say you have 300 hours in this game with mostly on survivor.
Yes 300 hours is already a bit of play time, yet not to the extreme you know ever ins and outs in this game.
Especially not as killer.
You also said you made a smurf account for this experiment because you didn't want to taint your main account, which mean that you start at the bottom of the MMR thus getting new are barely new players in your game.
If you really wanted to prove a point then you play at least the same amount of time you've put in this game only as killer.
That way your MMR is a lot higher and you get competent survivors who do know the game better.
The only thing that you have proven with your experiment is that new survivors who only have a few hours in this game will fall for facecamping.
Believe it or not that is up to you, but this isn't meant as a bully, toxic, mean, etc, etc comment.
All I'm saying that trying to prove a point as a player with knowledge of the game against new players, is that you prove new players are learning to play this game.
Nothing more nothing less ✌️
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72 players, but only 18 matches.
- Once again, you started at the bottom of the barrel. So yeah, most of them were brand new.
- Second of all, you're relying on Survivors being stupidly altruistic. I guess you think most survivors are this dumb? Cause they aren't in my experience.
- Who cares if they had DS, DH, OtR? Just because they are doing stupid plays doesn't mean suddenly we need to give them perks to make up for stupid plays.
Want some proof on my end here you go : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiZle8FEk-E
I have none of those freebie perks. All I needed was a Flashbang and my own skills to pull this off. By the way, I'm on a winning streak as solo Survivor, and also unlike you I'm not Ash IV to Bronze III at the highest. I'm already Gold IV - Gold III Survivor. I'm plenty sure my MMR is quite high as well.
"Face Camping" (I put in quotations cause real face camping back when the killer could actually block the hook prompt doesn't exist anymore. Though sure, use your buzz words.) That ONLY WORKS when you're facing Survivors who play STUPIDLY or are new. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. All you're proving is BAD SURVIVORS ARE BAD. Which, surprise, isn't a surprise! Maybe, JUST MAYBE, Survivors would do better if they actually tried to SURVIVE. Not decide they want to be stupidly altruistic and just give you freebies cause they have a "Hero Complex".
Truthfully, when I play Survivor I have a "Hero Complex". I do stupid crap all the time to try to save others. It usually works, they get away, but I die half the time because of it. Still doesn't stop me from doing well. I still get my PIP and (on average) 20,000+ BP each match. The difference between me and the fish you're shooting in a barrel, is my plays are more thought out. I also have the skill to pull it off.
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if you won by facecamping, you would have won against them even without it. Only real beginners fall for that. It's just a fact
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UPDATE
The 18 win streak is now a 25 win streak. I played 7 more games today (uploaded on Youtube).
The MMR seems to have increased a bit as I see more people trying to double back during my blinks, but I occasionally still get survivors begging for mercy after the 1st kill or getting easily grabbed, so I don't think it's going to end soon. There was still not a single match going to the exit doors yet.
EDIT: removed text about game 25 as it's not that interesting after all
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the community sais everything and the opposite of the everything also. all the time.
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Doesn't that just show that you’re probably not as good at the game as you think you are rather than killer is op.
I love how people think their time in game somehow solidifies their opinion into fact.
I’ve dropped a lot of hours into DBD and I’d say I’ve plateaued somewhere comfortable and that’s good enough. I don’t like to let my ego doesn’t speak on my behalf.
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