Nurse Balance / Rework Idea
Considering that Nurse is the only Killer that breaks core game balancing mechanics such as windows and pallets and being very op rn i think the best way to make her balanced is to make it so she cannot blink through walls & pallets.
Obviously she will be a lot weaker so thats why i would also give her less fatique & base movement speed like other killers.
So this way Nurse's strength will be open field but there is counterplay through breaking LOS and hugging walls.
Let me know what u think about it.
Comments
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Well than she would need more Blink(s) probably.
I honestly don't want to rework her just nerf her base kit a bit and all her good addons nerfed to the ground.
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Good idea, this will however be ignored by the devs.
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She has no counter play, if the nurse player is good you're done, end of story.
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Nurse is balanced according to actual evidence. No, this is not the useless kill rate charts even BHVR says they don’t like posting because people take it out of context when the data is meaningless because it merges all factors.
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Its mindblowing to me that you guys think nurse is balanced. There is killers having 600+ 4k streaks. No survivor would even come close to such an escape streak. And if u think about it, if nurse couldnt blink through walls or pallets, she could still be the best killer in the game. Its just that she actually has to break a pallet if its a save one and u dropped it early enough. Having a little bit of counterplay against her is necessary because she is consistently ending chases way to fast.
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remove/nerf range, up the tiers of recharge to green and purple, and make her chain blink attack a special attack, whilst keeping her first blink attack a base attack to reward accuracy with the proc of exposed/ base attack reliant perks
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It's not nurse herself that's entirely unbalanced, it's her addons and those addons (range) need to be nerfed because they remove any and all counterplay that basekit nurse DOES have
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As I said, I do not lose as nurse. great point you've made there son.
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Example?
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nurse isnt healthy for the game and hell nurse has the lowest kill rate my issue is she doesnt follow the rules like other killers and at the highest level is significantly stronger than the average killers, calling me bad proves that youre out of points against me other than "get good" and most killers do require skill its just with skill nurse will get the best results by a long shot
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
You could not be more wrong, it's a real shame to see people shill something in the game that's CLEARLY a problem. Please re-evaluate yourself.
Nurse is far better than all of the other killers, if you cannot see that as a problem, please for the love of the game stop posting on here, you're the problem that people are trying to fix.
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How do I counter a nurse that just walk until gets fully vision on me to get a easy blink, and how do I counter a double range nurse, sorry but, after they buffed range, I completly lost respect for this killer
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Completely wrong, yet again. Maybe you should take a break from posting?
Re-read my other comment slower, and read it twice to make sure you've understood it.
Nurse is too good, she should be brought down in line with other killers. If I can win every game as Nurse, that means she is too good or I'm affllicted with some sort of matchmaking bug.
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Killers should have similar levels of power. Then they could much more easily make broad balancing changes to the game without being adversely affected by stuff being overpowered on high tier killers.
The fact that there are only maybe 2 or 3 viable killers at high level competitive play is proof enough that Nurse is overpowered.
She needs adjustments. Why does she get to be the only killer to ignore pallets? Here let me trot out my Nurse wishlist again:
- Make any attack where she uses 2 or more blinks count as a special attack.
- Make her maximum teleport speed constant regardless of addons.
- Make it so if she blinks through a falling pallet she gets pallet stunned.
- Make it so that if she gets hit with a pallet during her fatigue she gets pallet stunned.
Come on @PapiFelixPSN, tell me what wrong with these changes? I think they're way better than adding a naked Felix skin to the game.
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How about we raise the power level of the other Killers? Unless a "Kill with your Friend (2v8)" mode is introduced, the killers are mutually exclusive and no change to any killer ability will affect the performance of other killers.
Its weird that the whole community is friggin okay to buff survivors to close the gap between survivors and "survivors with comms, actual cameradery and a desire to win", even with buff ideas that are way stronger than comms ever be, but Killers are instead also cut down at the top ( Billy NURSE and Spirit say Hi.)
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You can't build a game around pallet looping and have tons of killers in the game that it is effective against and have 1 killer that can completely ignore pallets and looping.
Explain how you'd buff Trapper, Pig, Myers, Ghostface, Clown, Sadako, etc to be on par with Nurse. Also imagine how much work that would be.
It's like you're a Nurse main reacting with irrational arguments to protect your main from being nerfed.
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The mental gimnastics you are going here its stagering...if only 3 killers are capable of going toe to toe in a competitive level where ALL players are considered equal, that meaning that the killer and all 4 survivors are on the same level with equal chance to win then by pure logic that meens ALL THE OTHER KILLERS ARE UNDERPERFORMING significantly.
Seriously, i feel i lose brain cells every time this is brought up and instead of trying to bring all the other killers to a more balanced and competitive level the answer from almost all survivors its "nerf the killer to OP".
And just for the record for all the other people screaming nerf the nurse to OP no counter play...i will remind you that from each 10 nurse players easily 6 quite literally and uterly SUCK, most of those games are easy 4 survivors escapes, the next 2 players might get a few hits more or less concistently and 1 or 2 hooks, the next one might be more consisten but still prone to mistakes , most likely geting a comfortable 2 kills per game while actually having to put effort on it, the las 1 player its that nightmarish Nurse you all hate and use as a "stagering" number to prove how OP the nurse is...regardless that to get there the player actually has to be seriously good and comited to one of the MOST complicated and hard to use killers in the ENTIRE game
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I am trying to solve the problem using common sense. Most of the killers are already balanced with each other fairly well. I call for nerfs to the top 3 because then the killers would all be better balanced with each other on the whole and then large changes could be made to the game as a whole to elevate all killers. It would also require a lot less labor to pull off.
It's mental gymnastics to think that it's plausible to make changes to 20+ underperforming killers to bring them to a competitive level.
I lost brain cells just trying to read that drivel you call a post.
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Nurse needs to have zero addons that make her blinks come back faster.
Nurse needs to have zero addons that let her blink for more distance (especially in less time).
Nurse needs to lose "floor blinking tech"; if she charges a full blink and there is not a lower floor under her then she needs to move the full distance of that blink.
Furthermore Nurse should not be altered until SWF is nerfed in the same patch. Sorry but SWF is just too efficient as the last major patch actually helped SWF against killers. Why? Because instant gen regression was completely gutted. Pop+ Pain Res as a combo is dead. That is what gave killers momentum against SWF.
Change SWF so that no perk, item or character can be repeated. Then it has advantages & disadvantages over solo queue.
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Again..you seem to be to stuborn, unable to understand and simply refuse to se you are not making any sense at all.
Most of the killers are already balanced with each other fairly well
Wrong, not sure where you got this idea but many, MANY of the other killers arent balanced at all in comparison to the rest. Want to bring out the tier list where C and B ranked killers are the butt of the joke of survivors and the guilty pleasure of killers because they have extremely hard times being decent and/or killers have to play extremely eficient/sweaty to get somewhere?.
I call for nerfs to the top 3 because then the killers would all be better balanced with each other on the whole and then large changes could be made to the game as a whole to elevate all killers. It would also require a lot less labor to pull off.
Nerfing the top 3 wont magically make the game balanced at all, i seriously dont understand what kind of "logic" if it can be called that you are coming from from this mentallity, then again given you "belive" all the other killers are balanced says a lot about this. Also the problem with this mentallity of you its the same that has plagued the game for years, instead of taking the long road to fix problems you are just adding a bandaid that in the long run wont acomplish anything.
It's mental gymnastics to think that it's plausible to make changes to 20+ underperforming killers to bring them to a competitive level.
Thanks for giving me the reason, specially when you yourself its calling them "underperforming" with meens they are performing bellow expectations, wich in turn meens theres a problem in the balance in the game, or in this case the killers bellow the top 3, in other words im right.
So, mental gimnastic its to actually tackle the big problem, try to find individual solutions that will make every piece of the game more rewarding and entertaining for all the parts than going with the bandaid mentallity? sorry but you are making a joke of yourself with this statement. It takes more resources and time, ill give you that, but its far better than to take a "just nerf the good ones" mentallity.
Call it drivel all you want, at the very least i try to se the wider picture instead of mindlessly lock miself in believing nerfin the top 3 killers magically will turn the game better, specially when all the other ones are NOT balanced in relation to each other, but keep telling yourself that, clearly thats not mental gimnastics
Post edited by Viamont on0 -
It's not a mind game it's a catch 22 and there is a huge difference. If you run and she has a blink charged she wins. If you dont run and she has a long blink charged she blinks into the floor and she wins.
How's that a mind game? A mind game would be: if the survivor makes you charge too long then you blink too far and miss. That's a mind game.
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When I said "underperforming" I was just using your terminology, I don't think they are actually underperforming. Compared to the top 3, yes they are underperforming, but in your average game they do all right. I enjoy playing as Bubba, Clown, Wraith, Legion and Slinger and I rarely play the top 3. I have a decent amount of experience playing as and against all killers, with the exceptions of Pinhead and Sadako who I don't yet own.
Whenever balance is the goal you have to choose a baseline to aim for. It is much easier and more realistic to aim for the middle with the baseline, I imagine A to B tier would be an acceptable and attainable goal. Aiming to get everyone to S tier where Nurse is is not realistic in my opinion, especially for BHVR. You're asking too much from them. Seriously, how do you buff Pig, Clown and Trapper hard enough to be on par with Nurse? How hard would it be and how much work would it take? How much would they resemble their original powers?
I already stated the adjustments I'd make to Nurse earlier. I'd like to see Blight's hug tech/exploit removed and his addons nerfed and I want to see Spirit's addons nerfed. I don't even want these killers reworked. Then we could see how the tier lists shake out and go from there. That's how I would start to tackle the problem of balancing the killers. You can call that mental gymnastics if you like.
Where would you start if you were to try to elevate all killers to Nurse's level?
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Torunaments are a small % of players, we're talking about the game at large here.
It's a real shame to see someone like yourself shilling these damaging opinions, yes killers like Blight and Huntress are indeed better than others, but Nurse is a cut above. If the player is decent there is no mechanism by which survivors can avoid her, other than dh. That reason ALONE is enough for this conversation. It's terrible game design now that stealth is not really an element of this game anymore.
Blight is good yes, Huntress good yes, but you can avoid both of them.
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You're making the mistake that the developers made. They look at the stats and say oh this is fine - nurse has the lowest kill rate and needs some changes. That's why we have omega blink back in the game. None of the streamers who can play this game at high levels think that is a good idea.
You're also making a mistake and assuming that tournament squads are only a 1% problem. If someone is a killer main and their skill is over a certain threshold they will get high MMR survivors. If those survivors are alone the game has a better chance to be fair to the killer. The second those players are in a SWF they have extra information that helps them beyond their perk loadouts.
I suspect you see the problem is that the top 1% of survivors can dance on the grave of the top 1% of killers. The problem is deeper than that because the top 90% of survivors are better than the top 90% of killers. We can say the same thing at 85%, and 80% too. In short there has always been a skill ceiling for most of the killer platforms; if survivor skill caps at 10 then killer skill is capped somewhere between 7-10. What changes this scenario?
You will win more on fair maps and lose more on unfair maps.
You will win more with Nurse/Blight than you will with inferior killers.
You will win more vs solos than vs SWF teams.
You physically cannot avoid a nurse with the omega build at close ranges. If she blinks at the perfect spots she will hit you on either the first or second blink. What is different about this? As a survivor against most killers you make a mistake and the killer hits you (usually when you make a second mistake). When a nurse chases a survivor they need to make a mistake for them to not hit the survivor.
If you make no mistakes as nurse when chasing a survivor you will hit the survivor at every opportunity. Conversely if you make no mistakes while chasing with an M1 killer you will not always hit the survivor because your ability to chase and pressure is much smaller than nurse.
The reason to remove distance and recharge addons is to help push Nurse from S tier to A tier. Also it will make Nurse blinks 100% uniform so there is no variation in the muscle memory of her power when playing her or playing against her. Horvath made the nurse and he was working on making her blinks uniform. Unfortunately when he left the team someone took over and undid his revision plans.
Nurse will be better for the game when she is not as strong as she is right now. She needs to blink more often to catch up to survivors to remove the pattern of : blink blink hit, blink blink hit. She needs to lose some of her edge to push her down in the rankings so there are no S tier killers.
The fact that Nurse is as strong is she is now is why we have certain limits on perks - because Nurse can use them too.
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"And no, Nurse doesn't bottleneck perks"
Nurse, Blight and Spirit with best addons most definitely influence perk effects as well as many other game facets. These three killers have much better performance than all the rest. They also influence map design - unfortunately. When we get map reworks it's very rare they set the bar low so that M1 killers are considered. M1 killers get obliterated on The Game but Nurse, Blight and Spirit do just fine.
Shelter woods is absolutely huge. This is fine for Huntress who can shoot very far but moves slowly. This map completely ruins trapper and other M1 killers that have to lumber around.
Imagine for example if we could just "except" the slow moving killers to not play any map larger than say 9500m². That would be one way to change the game. Or we could try to make Nurse, Blight and Spirit not have a tremendous advantage on large maps.
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What you tink and what is real are two diferent things. You "might" tink they are all perfectly balanced nice and dandy, but the reallity is that theres a big gap betwen ALL the killers, specially when you compare the S tier to the C/D ones. But lets take out of the equation the S ranked ones, theres a considerable diference betwen a pyramid head and a slinger, heres quite a bit diference betwen the artist and a clown.
Average on what, low rank players? mid rank players or high rank players? because each one functions very diferently of each other based on player skill, perks and killer, so even that its not a reliable measure for your argument. Sorry but if you want to talk about middle grounds you are bringing your own argument down. The tier list goes from S,A,B,C,D, by your own words all the C and D would have to be brought up in the tier list via improvements and buffs (great thing), but also bring down the other above the "middle" ground from S and A to B, wich again, its the middle ground, so you actually have to point out exactly wich one it is...true middle ground or improvement above average. But lets pretend you meent every killer up to rank A (wich its good) that would still leave up to 18+ killers going from rank B,C and D to be upgreaded, so even if all said killers arent brought up to competitive levels (S tier) they will still be far FAR more viable than before, and jsut a note that by your own logic you first said it was mental gimnastics to even consider uping up 20+ killers to competitive levels...so thats how its diferent from you still wanting to bring the same 20+ killers close to A rank?, you yourself said thats its implausible to make said changes...so what is it, its plausible or not?.
No one said that it would be an easy task making all the previously mentioned bellow A rank killers better, but unless BVHR isnt lazy as hell its a far better option that just bring down S/A rank killers to a B rank middle ground.
Or...again...you make ALL the bellow rank A killers better, put them up to a comfortable similar power to A killers wich by the comunity are among the most interesting and well balanced instead of just bring down 3 killers wich actually serve the purpouse to se when you have gone to far as they serve as a measure to know exactly when you went TO far. Then when all the previously mentioned underperforming killers are worked THEN you take off that measure point and check it out to bring it out in a similar position to all the others. What i call mental gimnastics its to belive the low rank killers are balanced and in equal foting than those on rank A or above.
Im not going to go on a killer by killer basis in all honesty, but its far better than just to bring down (again) the S rank ones as that would make ALL the other killers more willing to play with their favorite killer, wich in turn would make it so you wouldnt se the same killers over and over wich in turn would make for more diverse games wich in turn would make things more enjoyable thanks tho the variety you would se on a game to game basis
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As I've said before, if the top 3 killers were nerfed (the ones with the most broken mechanics and addons in the game) down to A-tier, then broad changes could be made to the game on the whole to buff all killers. Then there could be a top 5 or more killers who could possibly be made viable at the highest levels of play.
I also want to see Nurse nerfed because it would be good for map design. Midwich is one of the better maps in DbD, especially compared to all the maps that have been made or reworked since. Just because the Nurse exists in her current form we continue to see huge awful maps being brought to DbD. If the Nurse didn't completely ignore height we could see more multi-floor maps that are not just a massive 1 floor sprawl like 90% of maps are.
I don't expect BHVR to ever make all the killers balanced. There's always going to be S-A-B-C-D killers. That's just the way it is.
I've asked you twice where you'd start if BHVR were to buff all killers up to Nurse's level and you have no idea.
So we're done.
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This does not work against a decent Nurse, I'm assuming you're not decent at Nurse since you keep making comments that have no basis in the game.
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You'll have to explain to me then, where are all these survivors that can dodge Nurse? I've not seen any. Only time I miss is when I misjudge not when the survivor does something 'clever'.
You know btw that when playing as Nurse you can aim down at the floor to reduce the distance a ful blink travels, this nullifies the point you were trying to make.
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I dont get your fixation with nerf the top 3 killers and that somehow its going to bring out a better balance of the game, theres absolute no need to do that to bring out all the killers bellow to a more comfortable balance point (IE all below S,A ranks), unlike your idea of just nerf then perhaps do something, mine still holds more value as it keeps a treshold of strenght to measure all the killers bellow. By having S and A ranks you can easily measure those bellow how strong they are by having a VERY strong (S rank) and strong (a rank) set of killers wich you can compare ALL the others.
Sorry but the awfull maps its something thats been there from the begining, if anything nurse puts out how bad those maps are in comparison to any other killers wich most of the time have a terrible time on a variety of maps, sure, some are better than others, but in general the map design on all the game isnt exactly good. God pallets, jungle structures, windows and so on. Most high mobility killers put in perspective that without it the game can be very unbalanced in many areas, thats not something exclusive to the nurse, but its something she particularly highlights as a big overal flaw. Whe could, but boons demostrated that that would be a horrible idea, structures with more than one floor proved that it made things far to easy for survivors and far to anoying for killers, in a perfect wourld sure, it would be interesting to have multi level structures to give variety, but given the state of the game its not exactly something that should be encouraged till more balance its put on thigns like boons and their obnoxious way of being spheres? who can work on multiple levels.
True, but the gap can be reduced with work, there surely will always be said tiers, the diference is that with your idea basically you are disapearing the S rank, merg it with the A then just by proxy a new S rank will apear, wich basically will just be a suckier S rank than the previous one, basically lowering the overal state of the tiers instead of improving it in a meaningfull way.
For starters i wouldnt shy out to give killers actual strenghts, stealth killers? actually make them fearsome and hard to find out, not give out as much info as survivors are given at the moment, something i find ridiculous, survivors are spoonfeed information like candies, reason they are so pissed about spinechild as it was an all around pony, now that they arent feed so much info its obvious they are pissed. I would make 1v1 killers actually strong on that department, case in point old slinger wich was very strong in 1v1 but scucked royally on global presence, but then again, survivors outcry he was "to" strong. Those are some examples, basically boil down to stop fearing making killers actually a treat and not care as much to piss off the survivors.
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Nerfing her so she won't be able to blink tru' walls = that's not a nurse anymore. I suggest get rid of the range addons, slight nerf to recharge addons, make them not to be stack-able, and her blink attacks to be special attacks.
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Nurse is fine is just her range addons that need a nerf
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