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The game is designed such that killers CAN'T "play nice"
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TBF if the game was designed with Killers being "nice" in mind, the not "nice" killers would be Overpowered.
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I agree -- it's a design flaw that the killer's most effective strategy is to do something that makes the game play miserable for someone else. In a better design, there wouldn't be a dead end like that -- no matter what the other side did, you would have some fun way to respond to it or continue to take action in the game instead of just being sidelined or eliminated.
I think we all subconsciously understand that it's a flaw, too -- that's why we have so many informal rules about how people are "supposed" to play. We're trying to compensate for unfun it is if people play the game as designed.
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That went down the shitter the moment they nerfed bbq. Monstrous shrine is the next best thing imo but it only works to kill the survivor faster (which they'd have an issue with anyway)
So unfortunately,they DID try but they can't nerf practicality and effectiveness in favor of "playing nice"
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This type of BS is honestly just becoming sickening.
Killers just got a bunch of baseline buffs. Yes, their meta slowdown perks were also nerfed, but those nerfs definitely didn't have the same impact as all the buffs killers got at base.
Killers do not have to camp and tunnel to win. Just no. They can play fair and still win. They just have to actually play well enough. Also, playing fair doesn't mean 2 hooking everyone before you get a kill. It just means not camping and tunneling. Two strategies that are just so cheap and unfun, it's not even funny anympre at this point.
People have made so many suggestions already that would nerf camping and tunneling in a fair and balanced way. Increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds for example. And removing hook grabs. That won't nerf camping into ground, nor will it hurt a killer that is playing normally in any significant way. But it would make camping less effective, which is something that absolutely needs to happen.
I guess there are people that are yearning for longer killer queue times. That's the only reason I can still think of for people still defending camping and tunneling after all the buffs killers received.
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Here's the thing.
I play nice.
I do fine.
What's key is consistency, and being willing to take a few losses without going all out. Eventually, your MMR will put you in a position where you can be a little more chill.
I also go hard from the start, and then start easing up once I have control over the game, and attempt to make it somewhat challenging but still fun for the other side.
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Headshots take a lot of skill. Camping and tunneling don't, especially the former. What a terrible comparison.
It's true though, you can not blame people for playing efficiently, not sure about smart though, even the dumbest person on earth could just camp a hooked survivor.
The problem is that the devs still haven't adressed these cheap and pathetic tactics. And the entire claim that killers won't have any chance to win anymore after these ridiculous tactis are nerfed is complete bs. You can still win without camping and tunneling like crazy.
I would agree that nerfing camping and tunneling into the ground might be a bit much, but there are enough ways to nerf camping and tunneling adequately, so that they aren't some of the most efficient strategies anymore. And it's needed, because they are simply cheap.
But maybe people like you have experienced some particular bliss that comes with longer killer queue times, I sure haven't. And if the devs ever want to balance queue times again, camping and tunneling will have to be nerfed.
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My favorite part is when they try to use the "it ruins our fun" card. Like is running the same 3 super powerful set ups against a 115 m1 fun for me? No, I don't think so.
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There are incentives for killers to move away from the hook. Floods of Rage being one of them.
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Surprising fact: being nice to your opponent is not how PvP games are meant to be played.
Yeah maybe in chat, but certainly not in match itself.
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Watch any tournament match or match at a high level. Survivors are far too powerful when played by good players.
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You can still win, but not against an efficient team.
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Survivors should be forced to swap gens every 30 charges of teamwide cumulative progress.
Else thats camping and tunneling, which obviously has been proven unfun.
/s
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I don't get where the DBD communities obsession with letting survivors make the most of their resources comes from. In a shooter do you purposefully avoid/die to players with bad k/d to give them a chance to catch up? In Mobas do you give lanes away for free to the enemy to farm to catch back up? Name a single competitive pvp game where you actively go out of your way to maximize the opponents fun and risk your win so that people can "have a good time".
I do think camping and tunneling is too strong at the moment, but the idea of "killers should play 12 hooks and not kill anyone until hook #9" is bonkers.
In the same vein if survivors are smashing out gens and outplaying the killer do all they all suddenly stop to get every remaining gen to 99% before finishing the game or do they just slam out the remaining gens and leave ASAP? Do they go into deadzones on purpose to give killers downs/hooks if they are ahead?
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It's not that we think it is bad to play the best way possible to win. The argument is that best way possible to win should also be the most fun way to play for everyone. The most efficient way for survivors to play, is to slam gens and hold shift + w when getting chased, predropping every pallet, but holding m1 for 90 seconds is not very fun. The most efficient way for a killer to win, is to tunnel and proxy camp near a 3 gen, but sitting there waiting for survivors to come to you to hook trade is not fun.
Playing the game "efficiently" is actually the least fun way to play this game. And that is a problem.
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I don't know where this "Don't kill anyone until hook #9" nonsense came from, but I assure you that it's not what is meant by "don't tunnel". Similarly, not tunneling has absolutely nothing to do with playing nice and allowing the survivors to make the most of their resources.
You can win without tunneling and camping, even against efficient teams.
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Hadn't played in months... came back for Wesker... played with dumb perk combos (all hexes... no not even DH or Ruin) on "bad" killers like Trickster and GF while playing nice and was scoring 2Ks.
So I'm not feeling that bad for a Nurse avatar player indicating they somehow can't win if they don't tunnel/camp.
First step I suggest is to not play this game like some high end competitive sport game and instead appreciate it as the horror Mario Party that it is. :3
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This right here, would be the most ideal way for DBD to be played. If only they had just nerfed perks alone and not buffed killers, this wouldn't have been such a drastic, and clearly unnecessary change. Regardless of what anyone says, I strongly believe that buffing killers were unnecessary, even if people screech that they needed to be closer to SWF's, cause the unfortunate reality is is that no matter how hard people try to get SWF nerfed, it'll keep coming back like a roach and because of it, Solo Q suffered due to people who have communication over those who dont.
The healthiest update would be an update that changes things back and just nerfs perks alone, and maybe some reworks. Too bad that'll never come to play, and itl never be enough for either side....
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This is actually true though. If you play too nice against high mmr survivors you do just lose. Some killers will adapt to this and expect those survivors every game I believe which makes those sweaty games. Although there are ways to apply pressure without face camping and tunneling immediately.
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I have been called a tunneler even in 12 hook games. I completely agree with your definition but many, many survivor players call any action a killer does tunneling and camping. If I hook survivor A, start chasing B, C unhooks A and they heal and start working on a gen if I pop up by A and C I regularly hear cries of "DUUUDE....of course he would tunnel!!"
As soon as we have a unified definition of tunneling and camping sure, but until then every survivor and killer player has their own definitions and own application of those terms.
Is it tunneling if A,B, and C are all healthy and on a gen and A is on death hook and I go for him? What about a survivor who literally starts healing out in the open to get the benefit of CoH but is completely exposed and I just walk up and hit them? Is that tunneling? Or is it only staying by hook and beelining for the unhooked surv?
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That would make the game even more miserable, because SWF bully squads still exist.
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double standards
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And they will continue to exist, unfortunately. Off-topic, forum notifications are back (Yay! 🥳)
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