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Why people refuse to learn how to play against nurse?
I am from the times where nurse had only fatigue and +5 blinks... yet back in the day I was able to beat nurses... I know, it's not easy to do but you can do beat a nurse... she is heavily penalized for missing a blink, it's not a "oh, she misses, she has another blink"... if she misses both blinks, she has to wait three seconds until she gets the second blink again... every killer will down you eventually if they've set your mind in doing so... the problem with nurse is that you can not do the same "hold W brainlessly" strategy so... learn to count her, Is it hard? Yes, but hard doesn't mean impossible.
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Don't offense but i just really so bored with this Nurse threads.
Nurse is fine. Nurse is bad. Rework Nurse. Nerf Nurse. Buff Nurse. Nurse is hot. Nurse, Nurse, Nurse...
Jess... I miss the days when we all crying about Spirit and Dead Hard (i did not cry btw) (or maybe i did).
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I didn’t miss when people complained about Spirit. Leave those days behind us please.
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The short answer is, they don't.
People have good reason to complain about some things in the game without it being a refusal to counter it. You may as well have asked "why do people refuse to learn how to play against Dead Hard" pre-rework, and it'd be the same situation; people did, and it wasn't enough, because that perk was actually unbalanced. You could still win matches against Dead Hard, but that wasn't really the point.
Same with Nurse.
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I agree the Nurse threads are kind of tiring. That said Nurse is one of the more problematic characters in the game so it's understandable she consistently generates more complaint threads than other killers. Not only is her ability super powerful in skilled hands but she's also extremely new player unfriendly AND the way she stares at the ground 1/3 of the match is pretty obnoxious. Most killers I don't think need reworks, Nurse is the only one I think could really use a revamp to make her slightly less powerful at the high end, slightly easier to use at the low end, and feel slightly less "choppy" in the stuns.
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But Spirit never got that much hate.
Nurse is on different level now.
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I'm from the "back in the day" nurse also. Pre bbq & chili and infectious fright. It wasn't easy, but nurse could be countered. You know what always worked against her? Iron Will, aside from that brief and very stupid period of time when stridor inexplicably negated it, Iron Will has always been a very reliable stealth and chase ending perk.
Again, tell me why it's harder to counter nurse?
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"If she misses both blinks, she has to wait three seconds until she gets the second blink again." Oh golly! Three whole seconds! C'mon guys, you're spoiling me here.
The problem with Nurse is that you and your entire team need to be the best of the best if you want to have a shot at beating a good one. I feel like all of these Nurse defenders just telling people to git gud have never bothered actually playing against her in solo-que or anything short of a comp swf. (And that's not meant to be a dig at the OP either.)
There are others who can word and explain the problems with her better than I can, but she is most certainly problematic and needs to be changed.
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Why do people always end their sentences with three periods… it’s really confusing… is it just a habit or a trend…
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Well, in my case because it's a long pause before reading the next sentence... it means to say that it's not just to take a breath, it's to fully stop before resuming your reading. Anyway, many people use ellipsis just because old habits never die. My ex had that habit, but the difference is, he used it at the end, so it was like he was trying to say something but he didn't in the end.
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The counter play to nurse is actually extremely simple, there isn't really much to learn. Break line of sight every chance you get, and be unpredictable. I don't agree with your premise that people refuse to learn the counter play, because there isn't really anything to learn.
People don't like playing against her because she's in the power role. No matter how good you are at her "counter play" the reality is, if she's a good nurse, she isn't going to miss. In my opinion people don't like playing against legion for the same reason. In his power, a good legion is never going to miss you, no amount of "counter play" is going to stop you from getting hit.
With both legion and nurse, you need to trick them into messing up. All they have to do, is not mess up. That doesn't really make for engaging gameplay.
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'Count her'? If there's more than 1 nurse in a trial I'm definitely insta-dcing
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Maybe it is just because I am contemplative...
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Actually... yes, she is going to miss, think about it. How to be a good nurse? Being able to read the oponent... it becomes a guessing game for her, one in which if she fails, she is punished... now, if you as a survivor are easy to read then that's on you.
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Ah yes, the 2 seconds base fatigue + 0.5s extra fatigue per chain blink + 1s if she attacked at all regardless of hit or miss + the remaining time for the remaining blink recharges (total of 6s, eg, 2.5s fatigue = 3.5s longer for recharge), then 2s for charging up, then 1.5s for travel time, then up to ~1.2s for charging up, then up to ~1s for travel time.
Wow maybe, it's almost like if you aren't as equally good as the other side, you should not be winning, and other killers have way too absurdly long downtimes.
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While I agree with you somewhat, I don't think she is punished enough. Every single blink she does when she is in range of you, has the opportunity to be a hit. Little to no other killers work like that, they need to chew through resources on the map before they are guaranteed hits. She starts off at that point.
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"opportunity" =/= "guaranteed"
If a killer is in range, they should always be able to have an opportunity to hit you. Whether or not Nurse hits you comes down to the Nurse player and the survivor player's skill at mindgaming.
If a killer is in range and cannot hit you regardless of skill due to map RNG, that is bad design.
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Idk the majority of complaints I see are because most of the Nurses people complain about have the Starstruck build with her OP add ons.
It is clear she breaks the game whenever the devs decide to introduce a new strong perk or do universal buffs to killers in general. The complaints are legit. It isn't just "refusing" to learn to play against her.
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It's mostly that the fundamentals don't really apply to Nurse at all. If you want to learn to play against her, the best way to do it is to get a friend and do 1v1s for a few (dozen) hours. You can't get good against Nurse by playing against regular M1 killers and anti-loop killers, you must vs Nurse and Nurse specifically since the skills don't really carry over at all.
Learning to vs her demands a level of skill and dedication that is simply out of place in such a casual game like DbD.
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It’s because Solo Q and the Nurses who burn map offerings, aura/insta builds or classical full regression, and when they run 3 blink, omega blink, instant blink, or a mix. The instances where Nurse can actually be considered OP.
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Exactly exactly. No one's refusing to learn how to play against her, whether you know how or not, she is still insanely strong, and no longer fits the game anymore with the way she currently is. Her mechanics allow her to disregard her environment/surroundings, map design, perk design, survivors perks in ways that make her too strong and unlike any other killer, thus perks being altered to fit with her design as otherwise she'd be even stronger. I don't know how people don't see her as a problem.
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Well, you're right but people asking for nerfs, or what I've seen is not... nerf X add-on, which can be considerated the problem... it's always make her that her fatigue is... meaning her basekit, her basekit is fine... if she does have add-ons that makes her OP (which omegablink can be and recharge add-ons too) then those needs to be nerfed, not nurse herself.
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Okay but that is exactly how nurse works, you are describing hypotheticals, I am describing how the game currently works. She is the only killer that is guaranteed opportunity to hit you, no other killer works like that expect legion.
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Writing down the math doesn't change anything. Nurse is barely punished for missing a blink and everyone knows it.
Solo-que is already miserable, and it's damn-near impossible for any solo team to win against a good Nurse. Hell, most swfs can't either. You can't just git gud against a Nurse, because that simply does not work. She's the strongest killer in the game for a reason.
Oh, and of course we must look at the rare times where you don't get a good Nurse. Well, because Nurse is so horribly designed, that's also not fun or enjoyable because you'll stomp them almost without trying.
Nurse is just a lose-lose. Either you get a bad one and you'll easily win with zero effort, or you'll (most commonly) get a good one and you'll lose without a chance at winning.
Nurse's basekit is already over-tuned, and it only gets worse when you stack it with her OP add-on's, super powerful perk combos, and map offerings. And most Nurse mains tend to use at least one out of these three almost every game.
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The problem is her basekit is not fine when the devs do not consider her basekit when implementing new perks/changes to the game.
So in essence what you have is a killer that bottlenecks most if not all possible perks that they could introduce to the game, not to mention things that other killers need.
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Blight can 50/50 most tiles in the game the way Nurse can. Killers that cannot do that are the ones that are below ideal design. Why should someone automatically be safe just off pure map/tile RNG in a particular given area? If the killer can do literally nothing about that, that is not about skill, that is about RNG determining the result. Which is bad design.
Nurse is punished enough for good players to take advantage of it. Other killers have far too much absurd downtime for factors not even in their control they can do nothing about (eg, auto lose chase at strong tile in time-efficiency).
I don't know why you are blaming Nurse over what is clearly problems with solo queue that should be improved to solo queue directly (giving more info and ways to coordinate).
Good survivors do just fine versus equally good Nurses. Unfortunately for you, me, and everyone else in this game, DBD has the issue that literally every single matchmaking versus game ever will. The amount of good, great, and insanely amazing players are small, even smaller, and even smaller. So when they go into the queue, it is frankly unlikely there will be enough people of their level on in the perfect 4:1 ratio needed in the same region queueing at the same time to get a full even-skill lobby. So, in order for queues to not take hours, they are matched with worse players.
This is precisely why you see amazing players win almost every single game ever regardless of what they run. Survivor, killer, what killer, what build, etc. Because they are outright better than their competition. That is not a balance issue, that is an unavoidable matchmaking issue. When matched with actually even skill players, the match goes evenly.
Fortunately, because of how few actually good/great/insanely amazing players there are, the odds of having to deal with this specific matchmaking bad luck is also incredibly rare. Most people overrate how good their opponents are.
The reason most survivors struggle against Nurse (other than solo queue's lack of info) is because she has different counterplay from standard M1s, and survivors who don't know the counterplay will not do well (obviously). Conversely, this is why survivors who are good at playing against Nurse do just fine versus an equally skilled Nurse.
Range/3 blink add-ons need reworks, but everything else is fine. Certain maps need reworks/adjustments (eg, Midwich/Gideon are too small, among other issues those maps have).
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I mean, when they release a map, they don't consider killerrs... when they've released the Oni one as an example... a lot of killers struggle with it and that goes for every map. Should we nerf a killer that does well in certain maps due to it? Should we nerf nemesis because zombies in closed maps are a pain?
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Why not both? People always use legitimate worst case scenarios to try to act like everything less from the same killer is automatically hopeless. Thats like a killer saying "why bother chasing anyone when god loops exist in the game?"
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Why people refuse to learn the m1 killer playstyles and swf counters? They choose the easy way aka playin nurse (or blight with addons and slowdowns), they’re part of the same idiotic and lame squad
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Because in the broader spectrum, "god loops" don't exist anymore. If by "god loops" you mean strong loops they aren't remotely broken as much as Nurse is.
So no, it's not "like saying" because they are two different things. Furthermore, loops aren't affected by survivor perks (at least to the point of making them broken)... and the only one that subjectively did that was not a new perk (see old Dead Hard). Killer perks DO affect Nurse. Again, apples and oranges... two very different things that have different balance.
There is strong and there is broken. Nurse is the latter.
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It's not that they refuse to learn it's that the nurse is also learning how you play and trying to catch on on those plays
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I feel there are two types of nurses - Sight and Predictive.
The Sight nurse needs to see you before they feel comfortable blinking. They are the easiest to deal with because line of sight blocking is most effective as are jukes, and double backs. Though you have to be careful, they usually follow your scratch mark trail closely until they can see you again.
The Predictive nurse just knows through long experience knows how fast you can move and where you are most likely to be and gets it right almost all of the time. If they don't, another quick blink corrects it and they score a hit. You can try to juke this nurse, but really you are just deciding where you want to die at that point. They are by far much more difficult, if not downright impossible play against.
This second group is where the "god tier nurse" falls into - they know how fast you can move, where you are even if you try to double back, and quick enough with a blink that you have no time to react to avoid it. This type is also made much more powerful with any aura abilities. They just need to know your general location and direction. Once they confirm your exact location, it is only seconds until a hit is scored and a survivor does not have the speed nor reaction speed to deal with it. There is no defense, looping doesn't work, vaults only make it easier for her, line of sight blockers are of limited effect. Only old Dead Hard helped and against one hit, usually it was a down anyway just 3 seconds later.
So this is why trying to versus a nurse is often wasted and people are getting conditioned after meeting enough of these predictive nurses that there is no sense expending effort in the match, just to end up with the same results anyway.
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This is just objectively wrong. You can watch good players play against equally good Nurses. One, they cannot safe blink (blink to corner and then again) because then they will not be able to reach the survivor with the second blink on many areas. Two, regardless of aura perks or not, predictive means the survivor can outpredict them, which is exactly what happens. Good survivors against equally good Nurses can keep up a chase from anywhere to 30-60+ seconds just fine.
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This reductive, over simplified answer is like telling someone with clinical depression to "just smile". Breaking line of sight is entirely dependent upon the map. On Eyrie of Crows, you can't run anywhere because she's going to see the blood. Also, breaking line of sight isn't a guarantee to be free from the chase continuing, it will give you a brief respite and break bloodlust but you're only delaying the inevitable.
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The jist of playing against nurse is literally to just W key away from her and break line of sight. Every question can have a simple and complicated answer. This doesn't make simplified answers any more wrong just because it has a longer one.
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If you believe playing Nurse is easy then go and play her...
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How can you play this game and honestly say that god loops are gone? Maps are loaded with jungle gyms and tiles that you can see the killer at. If survivors do gens, the one being chased can insta drop pallets and never get touched. By the time they are caught, the game is over. THAT is fundamentally broken design. No killer in the game can compete with that level of brokeness.
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Back in the early days you just had to get good at beating Nurse. Back then you faced her more often. When she was introduced there were only 4 killers in the game so the odds of going up against a Nurse were extremely high. If you didn't get good vs a Nurse you were going to have a much harder time enjoying DbD. Nurse was also hard to play as back then. She was buggy and missing a lot of the quality of life improvements she's received more recently. The rank & emblem matchmaking system, in my opinion, was better for crafting good teams to beat Nurses.
As of August 30th there will be 30 killers in Dead by Daylight. This means that any player who's started playing recently has had a far lesser chance of going up against a Nurse than at any time before, and therefore much less experience against her. They just don't get good due to lack of exposure. If they give up in this Nurse round odds are very unlikely they'll face a Nurse again in the next. MMR matchmaking, in my opinion, does a horrible job of crafting teams now in SoloQ. There are almost always 1 or 2 very weak members in your average SoloQ team and once the Nurse finds them they go down quick and the whole team starts to crumble.
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Surely it's okay because it's hard to learn her guys. It totally doesn't just take a little effort to become a decent enough Nurse to shred through most pub teams. You see, back in my day she could blink 6 times so she isn't op now, you don't know what op is for heaven's sake! Her addons also cost bloodpoints so that's already a reason as to why they shouldn't be nerfed, you earned them with your hard work playing through these matches having to blink 4 times to down just 1 survivor. Survivors need to get good at the game!
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It must be tiring being so wrong about nurse, but fighting so desperately to keep her in her current state.
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Please stop spewing proven misinformation. It’s a detriment to the community and detracts from genuine good-faith discussions.
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I haven't said a single thing that can be considered misinformation.
You, on the other hand...
I'm not sure why you care so much about nurse. There are other easy ways to "win" every game you play. Just play Blight with his busted addons.
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######### are you talking about, if she misses a blink she's still in blink range or will be in a few seconds.
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Spirit got the most unnecessary backlash ever. She did nothing wrong yet people just wanted her gutted for no reason (thankfully she wasn’t).
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Because they are. They were gone once breakable doors became a thing.
A survivor never gets touched? Please stop with the exaggerated assumptions. If you choose to go for someone who keeps pre-dropping and never break chase, that is on YOU. Your job isn’t just to chase but patrol gens as well. Also since we are on a Nurse topic, tell me how pre dropping is good against Nurse.
Because In relation to what is being talked about there are no perks that make a loop stronger. As there are perks that DO make Nurse stronger.
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It's the same for all Killers... at times
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Nurse can play around predrops, hence why she is the only viable killer. Saying to switch up targets is a bad talking point if the survivors know how to play. Anyone you target will predrop and you won’t catch them until it’s over. I can tell you don’t play much killer.
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So she is only viable because she can play around pre-drops? Totally not because she can use aura-reading perks and teleport through walls to hit a survivor? No, not that at all. 🤣
On the second part. Wrong. If you know that a survivor has already used resources, the next survivor being chased will not have those resources to use. You would have to be a pretty bad killer to not catch a survivor without a strong pallet or resources already used.
I can tell you don't play much of anything, but Nurse.
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There are enough resources on the map for all survivors to use. Again, as killer you might get one, but that’s all you’re going to get. A 3-4 k is literally impossible if the survivors hold forward and pre drop.
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Ladies and gentlemen. it's okay to disagree but let's not call names on others... I don't want the post to get erased or anything.
Post edited by Saitamfed on1 -
BOYS NURSE HAVE TO WAIT THREE SECONDS BEFORE SHE CAN BLINK AGAIN I REPEAT THREE SECONDS, IF THE SURVIVORS IS GOOD HE CAN MAKE 5 MAYBE 6 METERS
i know how to play againts nurse even then is an awful killer to play againts
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