Wild idea for nemesis
I've constantly been bullied since i just picked up nemesis and overall i kinda feel like the free health state is not worth it.
So my stupid idea is:
over time, infected survivors get a slow penalty to actions that progressively gets worse, and if they don't cure themselves in like a minute, they die, kinda like a pig trap. (to make this more balanced add like +3 cure chests to the map) curing yourself is way faster than a pig trap so i don't think this would be OP (haven't thought about the zombies yet but with this they might as well be removed they suck anyways)
I would love for anyone reading this post to point out any flaws this might have, i'd love to start a discussion and throw ideas at each other!
Comments
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Nemesis is already strong enough (I think he is in exactly right spot - not too strong or too weak).
His problem is, that he is most dependant on RNG (or better yet luck) with regards to zombies AI/position. They can on one hand harass all the gens slowing them down very significantly, or shutting down loops making chases very easy, or on the other hand get stuck in a corner of the map making 0 contribution what-so-ever. That makes huge difference - especially considering how many addons are about zombies.
Making more consistent (maybe even predictable, or contrillable to some degree) AI for zombies would be all this killer needs.
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"to make this balanced add like +3 cure chests to the map" LMAO
yea no this is a horrible idea overall
if you make it actually lethal, as in pig trap level lethal that'll literally just kill you, the cures OR your infection needs to be limited.
If your idea goes through what would a Nemesis player that is actively trying to win do?
They would run to a survivor, infect them, leave them. No need to hook. You repeat that as often as all chests are depleted and then people just die. Additionally you spam gen slowdown such as Corrupt Intervention, Call of Brine, Overcharge and Fearmonger to guarentee that tentacle strike.
Against most people this would just give you a 4k and there s nothing they can do against it. Against really good players or SWF that can coordinate chest usage or deny tentacle strikes, this would still be really unfun to go against since chases just end after they got hit. The gameplay loop becomes stale as chases are short, gens have to be spammed and you have to leave as fast as possible.
Pig traps are limited an relatively hard to get off, and they have a decent chance to kill you on some maps.
Sadako's condemn is also limited since it is kinda really hard to apply in a manner that matters (unless you use her ultra rare TV add-on).
This idea will make Nemesis into one of the most unbalaced and unfun killers to play against as all you can do is literally do gens.
This is overall just a horrible idea giving him an insta kill ability.
I would be on board giving him an infection that progresses and then gives the survivors some effect like a small hindered debuff much like Wesker does.
I'd rather just give him a buff to his power so it's easier to use rather than a change to how his infection works though.
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-"Nemesis is already strong enough"
Not really. You would be foolish to Pick Nemesis over say Blight or Nurse. As you mention Nemesis is far to dependent on his zombies that quite frankly are not good enough for him to be considered "good enough".
Almost all of the addons you have to choose from on Nemesis are "meh". Let's consider for example Nemesis should have some kind of base stat reduction when he infects you. Maybe it's you do everything 2% slower except movement speed. When you look at some killers like Blight they have addons that give a 40% buff or more - which is nuts.
Make the licker addon give survivors 2% movement speed penalty. With the base 2% change that would be significant and it would make people want to cleanse ASAP. That is what the base power lacks right now which is dumb.
Change Jill's sandwich so that you become injured when you use the vaccine and become broken for 60 seconds - that would be decent. Nemesis is one of the few killers that doesn't really need the KI info thanks to zombies. If you are already injured then using the vaccine would give you deep wounds and broken.
The broken coin should probably have one more additional effect : you can only cure yourself with the vaccine once per game. If you use it more then that you become broken for the rest of the match. This would make survivors have "2 health states" again.
The NE-a Parasite should read : you are oblivious while infected - infinite duration.
The shattered stars badge should be a stacking +20% movement speed that lasts forever whenever a generator is completed. So +5 gens = +100% movespeed forever.
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I don't really understand how this relates at all to what Nemesis already does. It changes the obsession to whoever stuns you and makes them Oblivious. Just buff the perk, no need for some wild idea like this.
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Is nemesis weaker then blight/nurse? Ofcourse. Does that make him weak? No. Because nurse/blight are actually OP. You can't take strongest part of the game as standard (same way as you can't compare strength of all perks to just old DH).
Also if they make better AI for zombies, then nemesis has 0 issues. His addons will suddenly also be ok as he has some concerning zombies - which is bad now, but suddenly they would be good.
Or ok. Let's make everyone nurse level. But make survivors 4,6m/s as a compensation. Is it broken/game breaking? Sure is. It would be awful. Same as making everyone nurse-level strong
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-"Is nemesis weaker then blight/nurse? Ofcourse. Does that make him weak? No. Because nurse/blight are actually OP. You can't take strongest part of the game as standard (same way as you can't compare strength of all perks to just old DH)."
This is a trap. Nurse and Blight are so far ahead of the other killers that they are part of the reason why certain perks get nerfed or are set with low limits in the first place. Wesker's aura reading perk got nerfed before hitting live because nurse could be way to strong when using it. By definition Nemesis is weak - defined by you comparatively to Nurse and Blight. Given that you could play Nurse or Blight every round you are implying that people should choose to play other killers instead. Why would they do that?
Let's consider an alternate DBD reality. When playing Nurse/Blight your gen speed is 90 seconds. When playing Nemesis your gen speed is 110 seconds. Would that be more fair? Yes it would. Would that be more fun to everyone involved? Most likely it would not.
What I am suggesting is that all the killers in the game need to be elevated to a level where they have the level of control you see as Blight/Nurse or those two killers need to be nerfed (along with SWF, and maybe map design too).
At the end of the day the answer to the question is yes that Nemesis needs to become stronger. Why? Because Nurse and Blight are way better.
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You started alright. Balance is actually good thing. So if you want to buff everyone to nurse level - and she is OP (the way she just is), then nerf killer as a whole. Or watch the game burn as survivors will leave (game or role) even more then after 6.1.
Alternatively - bring everyone to some balanced level - say to level of nemesis who is actually fair. Meaning - buff trapper and onrio, but nerf nurse and blight.
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You'd be foolish to pick any killer over blight or nurse because they're overpowered. The solution is making those two weaker, not everyone else stronger.
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Obviously Nemesis is weaker than Nurse and Blight. It's a trash perk.
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I honestly think Nemesis is damn near perfect in his current form. Not ridiculously strong but certainly not someone (something?) to underestimate.
The two areas he needs improvement on in my personal opinion are his add-ons and, to a lesser extent, the zombies.
The problem with his add-ons is there are too many of them that influence the zombies (his secondary 'power') and not his tentacle (his primary), and the ones that do influence his tentacle are pretty underwhelming, outside of Marvin's Blood.
As for the zombies themselves, so long as you treat them as solely a secondary rather than the main power of Nemi, they're honestly fine. They provide a little map and gen pressure, help you locate survivors, even cause a little damage in the right circumstances. I just wish they were a bit consistent in their behaviour, rather than getting stuck at random trees and rock formations or reaching out to a survivor that's long since Sprint Bursted to the other side of the map. This is more so on a technical level considering it involves AI, so it's hardly a quick fix. But it would be nice to have your undead buddies actually be constantly on the move and causing panic rather than having them standing in the corner or seeing one dry humping a random boulder 100m away from any survivors.
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-"Nemesis is damn near perfect in his current form"
Hard disagree as a result of the required build up mechanic. It might seem counterintuitive but "build up" killers that start weaker and become stronger just end up being weaker then those that always have their power. Imagine if we changed Nurse and Blight so that they didn't have 100% of their power suite until they got multiple downs/hits with their power. Say for example Nurse only gets 1 blink until you get 4 hits. That would make her a lot more balanced. Say Blight only gets 3 bounces and doesn't get the full speed until he gets 4 hits with his power. Both of those killers would be better balanced with such a rework. They start weaker and end stronger.
Likewise you remove "T1" from Michael and then he would be a much better option to play as killer. If you insist on making him keep 3 tiers then give him 5% move speed in T2 "to balance out the slowness in T1". Nemesis for example could start the game at survivor speed and then when he gets T3 get full speed while the tentacle is out with no slowdown. He could start the game being able to break pallets at T1 as a reflection that no killer should be weak at the start. Things would be different if he got to 2 hit down survivors with T3 whip.
If someone is hosting a Million Dollar DBD tournament the answer shouldn't be Killer #1 or Killer #2 as the only viable options because they are head and shoulders above every other killer in the game.
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Credit where it's due, you're not wrong. Infection level 1 Nemi is rough to play as.
Fortunately, it only takes a couple of tentacle smacks to get you into level 2 which is where the 'damn near perfect' part comes into play. Sure, if they're good enough, they can avoid the whips and make your job harder. But you can more often than not get to level 2 by the time a gen's been completed, at least in my experience.
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There's no world in which Nurse/Blight should not be a build up killer but Nemesis should be a build up killer. That's exactly my point. If Nemesis got downs with 2 whips when in Tier 3 then sure keep the buildup as it is right now.
Just like with Michael - if you keep him terrible in T1, then give him a 5% speed boost in T2 and T3. With the tombstone it would level out so he would be the same speed as normal, but without it he would be horrifying with instant downs.
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Honestly I find him to be pretty decent once you get to level 2. Definitely not on the same level as Nurse or Blight, and Huntress can do what he does at pallets and vaults but without any buildup.
But these days he seems like a killer that's not only fun to play as (and against), but one that can get results with very little difficulty. Maybe that's how I personally interpret balance on a killer, so in my eyes he's damn near perfect.
His add-ons still suck, though 😂
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-"Definitely not on the same level as Nurse or Blight, and Huntress can do what he does at pallets and vaults but without any buildup."
That's exactly my point. He could stand to be improved by removing the buildup requirement with the T1 whip. Let him break pallets with T1 whip and that would make a huge difference.
-"His add-ons still suck, though"
To add insult to injury Blight and Nurse have some of the best addons in the entire game. The level of addons you see on Blight are what I expect on Trapper or Clown. Remember when pig had some addons that added like a 2% bonus to crouching? That's the kind of thing you expect on Blight.
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