Possible Knockout Nerf?
Knockout is one of the strongest slugging perks in the game. When I've went against a killer with knockout 9/10 they are slugging with it. They'll slowly hit you down over and over to drain your blood. Now, all in all, this perk is not even used that much. So why the nerf you ask? Well, when it is used it's a bit #########. I don't want to lay on the ground the whole match and bleed out. Knockout will hide your downed body to other survivors, so they will have trouble locating you...in solo queue most won't even look for you...at least not for awhile (rare).
My suggestions for this change: similar to the NOED nerf. I would like to see knockout show you the aura of the downed survivor once you get into a certain range of them. This range would increase over time the longer the survivor is slugged on the ground.
Thoughts?
Comments
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It already got nerfed. It used to work unconditionally. Now it's basic attack only which means Bubba aka owner of said perk can't use it with his own ability.
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Knock out is a horrible perk
It punishes solo teams heavily while doing nothing against coordinated teams/SWFs.
It encourages an unhealthy playstyle (Heavy slugging) but even then it doesn't actually make slugging that much stronger most of the time.
It needs a complete rework imo, Knock Out is the killer version of Calm Spirit - a perk developers keep daisy chaining new effects onto in hopes that it becomes good and people use it.
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Well, just because Bubba is the owner of the perk doesn't mean it's not on other killers. I had a Dredge use it on Midwitch recently and no one was going for the pickup. I've also experienced it with Legion, Trickster, Nurse, and Twins to name a few. I don't see it that often, but when it shows up it flips the game around. On your next killer match, bring knockout and leave the survivor slugged. See how quick the game goes. Just keep slugging survivors one after the other. Post a picture in the comments when you're done xD.
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I'd be okay with a rework as well. I typically see knockout with really nasty builds (sweaty builds). The builds are usually expose perk heavy like hex: haunted grounds-undying etc. When I get matches like this I see it as the killer probably got trolled in a game prior and is taking it out on the next lobby xD.
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For a Killer who's playing "Normally" (Hooking people, chasing, defending gens and so on), the perk is pretty worthless. Knock Out does nothing if you're going for multiple hooks and keeping slugging to a minimum.
When I play I typically do tactical slugging and I'm not running a perk to make that slightly better when I could run a perk that might actually win me a game.
There's 1 killer who I think Knock Out is pretty good on, and that's Hag. Nobody else really.
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I just use Knockout to hide the survivor's aura to reduce the information survivors get, makes stealth killers extra scary.
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Well, as I mentioned before...if you're playing normally then you typically wouldn't be running this perk. Most killers who run this perk are doing so for the slug game. The reason for the nerf or rework would be to better counter against a killer who is slugging with the perk.
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You coach it as a "better counter" but really it's tacitly removing the perk. When you strip out the core of what a thing is designed to do you're not left with a whole lot.
Just deleting perks is uncreative and uninteresting. Especially just because you don't like them with no real underlying reason. Try a rework instead.
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What I'm suggesting happen to the perk is no different than what they did to NOED which seems like a pretty fair change. Which part of my suggestion do you think is tactically removing the perk? Where in any of what I've said mentions stripping it of it's core function. It's core function will continue to work as a slugged survivors aura will not show. I'm just suggesting a nerf or rework that prevents mass slugging with it.
NOED CHANGE:
Hex: No One Escapes Death remains inactive if no Dull Totems are available.
Hex: No One Escapes Death reveals the Aura of its Hex Totem to all Survivors within 4 meters and gradually expands that range to 24 metres over the course of 30 seconds.
^ That's the NOED change. Applying this to Knockout does not takeout it's core function, get a grip.
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well said. its useless perk swf because swf can just tell each other where the person floor is and it hurts solo.
you can counter this perk by using Bond, It gives 36 meter unconditional aura reading all survivors near you, including downed survivors but to be honest, global bond should be base-kit for solo and this perk should be reworked.
the perk should be reworked to be reverse tenacity where it reduces crawling speed by -100% and slugging as a whole should be buffed to reward killer for downing the survivor. survivors that pick up other survivor should lose 25% bleed progress and third seal could also use rework to buff it to 35% if the totem is active since third seal is also another perk that does nothing vs swf but affects soloq.
nobody really slugs as killer because you get no reward for doing so and killing survivor by hooking them & camping is more time effective overall. those changes would help make those slugging perk more relevant and reward killer for slugging if the killer chooses that route to win and bunch of survivor perks could maybe get buffed as well to combat or even encourage/force that playstyle(Like Decisive strike).
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The majority of players in this game are solo players. There was a poll done a long time ago. SWF players makeup the smallest portion of the games players. Basing every change off of how it would be against a SWF is a horrible way to maintain game health.
Forcing a survivor to run a perk in the event this random perk shows up is not ideal. It's easy to find survivors on a map that are healed, injured, or in the dying state without bond. Go to different generators, listen for generators, go to a recently finished generator - easy. Knockout is the only reason you wouldn't be able to find a downed survivor. Putting Bond as base kit would not be valuable at all considering the new gen regression meta killers are running now.
I don't understand your comparison to Tenacity. If a survivor is running Tenacity and a killer is running Knockout, then Tenacity would be like regular crawling speed. Making the crawling speed -100 for Knockout is literally not crawling...you wouldn't move...that's -100...just laying there.
There doesn't need to be a buff made to slugging. In the "DEVOUT" emblem category you receive 0 points. This is appropriate as slugging without hooking is not playing the game. I don't mind temporary slugs for pressure, but early game mass slugging is dumb. In fact, I say the opposite to your suggestion. Slugging should get a Nerf and killers should receive negative points against their score for doing it longer than 30 seconds. It should subtract some points from their overall score. Just like survivors get an unsafe hook negation, killers should get a non-hook negation. That's right...I said it :).
I don't know what game you're playing or even if it's the same game, but I've experienced plenty of slugging in Dead by Daylight. Enough for me to bring up these points.
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But you can already see the aura of downed survivors when you get into a certain range of them (16 meters, I believe?) But yeah, I agree it's horrible for solo queue players, and I DC from any match where a killer just wants to slug and never hook.
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That's why I was making the suggestion for a nerf. Someone mentioned a rework which actually sounds better. I would prefer they rework Knockout like they did NOED. Increasing the aura reading range gradually every 30 seconds by 4 meters for a maximum of 24-28 meters...or something similar.
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Knock out and insidious are questionable perks, the right move was to buff deerstalker instead of knock out, really weird choice from devs
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tbh a lot of perks don't match the character they came from, Dark Devotion was a basic attack ability forever from plague, a character who will probably never ever m1 anyone.
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Facts.
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I don't understand your comparison to Tenacity. If a survivor is running Tenacity and a killer is running Knockout, then Tenacity would be like regular crawling speed. Making the crawling speed -100 for Knockout is literally not crawling...you wouldn't move...that's -100...just laying there.
The perk is literally called knock out. How are you crawling if your knocked out? -100% crawling emulates being knocked out. You could make more realistic by making your vision blurred like clown bottles or complete black out, but that would be too realistic for survivor.
It's easy to find survivors on a map that are healed, injured, or in the dying state without bond
Putting a survivor in the dying states gives you unlimited bond aura reading on the floor. Its literally unlimited deerstalker(killer perk) for survivor free. Its like that to bridge swf and solo. This perk removes unlimited deerstalker and set it to 16 meters. your complaining about the perk that removes unlimited aura reading and I'm telling you that you can equip bond and it will neutralize the perk by extending range to 36 meters.
The majority of players in this game are solo players. There was a poll done a long time ago. SWF players makeup the smallest portion of the games players. Basing every change off of how it would be against a SWF is a horrible way to maintain game health.
I understand that, you shouldn't need to bring an information perk to counter knock out, but the game is balanced like that currently. the game should definitely be balanced around swf and solo should have same opporunities to be as successful as SWF. Survivor already get unlimited bond when on the hook, and on the floor, I don't see why they don't get it when they're not hooked/on the floor.
This is appropriate as slugging without hooking is not playing the game
Downing the survivor is playing the game as killer. The only difference between downing a survivor and hooking them is that hook survivor takes away killer time allowing survivor to rush generators faster since killer spends time hooking the survivor.
In the "DEVOUT" emblem category you receive 0 points.
that's terrible design, your punish killer for succeed their objective. mood point. Your idea suggests punishing the killer for playing the game.
early game mass slugging is dumb.
you never state what is wrong about it, you just say its dumb. What is dumb about the killer downing the survivor? Should we remove the ability m1 on all killer so you cannot go down? Getting 4 man slugged is survivor being poor at the chase and survivor misplaying massively while killer capitalizing on survivor mistakes. The twins gameplay is entirely cantered around this and very few players play her as a result. Slugging is part of the game and should be viable way to win, especially in cases where survivor force slugging to occur(Such as Old decivisve strike, Sabotage, Going in the corner of the map where all hook are broken from someone dying).
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Okay...that's a lot to read.
First off, I'm not going to address everything. I'm just going to address the "DEVOUT" emblem and mass slugging early game.
Devout emblem:
Your goal is to gain as many points as possible for this Emblem:
- 0 points: starting value, No Emblem
- 2 points: awarded for each Sacrifice
- 2 points: awarded for each Kill
- 0 points: for each bleed-out death
- 2 points: awarded for each Disconnect
- 1 point: awarded for having hooked all Survivors at least once
- 1 point: awarded when Survivors have been hooked for 9 times.
*Notice how you get 0 points for each bleed-out death. The killer is not rewarded for slugging.
As for mass slugging early game. In all emblem categories you can gain points for doing actions. There are four categories, if you start the game and mass slug everyone at 5 gens and leave them to bleed out you're not playing the game as intended. Sure, play however you want, but you're negating all point categories for survivors and whatever remaining point categories for yourself. That is why it's dumb. In a game where you're trying to increase the amount of BP you get per match to level up/prestige your characters - gain shard XP, negating all the possible ways you can earn those BP in a single match makes absolutely no sense. You'll never reach your goal doing that and the only reason to play like that is because you're a miserable person who wants to make everyone else miserable.
Why didn't I explain that earlier? It's genuinely understood and doesn't need explaining if you know how the emblem system works and why early game mass slugging would be dumb. But yet...here we are.
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The big differences between knockout and NOED,
1. Totems dont move the survivor can make themselves easier to find by moving towards other survivors.
2. Totems are silent downed survivors make noise you can find them by sound
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Okay, my comment disappeared for some reason.
Basically, I'll just post this again then.
Devout Emblem -
Your goal is to gain as many points as possible for this Emblem:
- 0 points: starting value, No Emblem
- 2 points: awarded for each Sacrifice
- 2 points: awarded for each Kill
- 0 points: for each bleed-out death
- 2 points: awarded for each Disconnect
- 1 point: awarded for having hooked all Survivors at least once
- 1 point: awarded when Survivors have been hooked for 9 times.
*Notice how you get 0 points for bleed-out deaths.
Mass slugging is dumb early game if you do it at 5 gens because you're negating all the point categories for both you and the survivor. That is why I said it was dumb. When you're trying to earn bloodpoints to level up/prestige characters then you wouldn't want to earn the least amount of BP possible. That is why I said what I said.
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What if that isnt my goal? What if my goal is just to kill 4 survivors and not care about bloodpoints or the emblem system?
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Well, I just offered a suggestion about some changes that would be ideal. I'm not looking for counter suggestions. Someone mentioned a possible rework and it would be interesting to see what that would consist of.
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Well, in my original response I went over that...but as I said it magically disappeared and I didn't feel like writing it again. You can play the game however you want, but it's a bit silly to play a game and have no goal in mind. With the emblem system DBD gives us goals to accomplish each match and we can use our winnings to level our characters/prestige them and earn shards for the Shrine or cosmetics. When you're playing the game and not actively pursuing the goal then what are you doing? How is that fun? So the plan is to play however you want and do nothing or the bare minimum and to not progress the game or increase perk tiers? That doesn't make any sense to me.
The goal of any game would be to win. Any game I play I would try to maximize the amount of points I get. To do the exact opposite doesn't make any sense. The only thing I can think of is malicious intent. I hate saying that, but that's the only thing I can think of. DBD is a one of a kind game where you can literally not play the game to win and make everyone else in the lobby suffer for it too. The only people I can think that want to play that way are people who like to power trip, control, and feed off of others misery.
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emblem system often punished the killer in many cases for no apparent reason and it often depip survivor for playing efficiently and escaping especially in red ranks. it was just weird. grades are better off just being used for BP, those categories are really meant for bloodpoints.
Mass slugging is dumb early game if you do it at 5 gens because you're negating all the point categories for both you and the survivor.
that's only true if the survivor fails the chase. You can often get more BP as survivor if you do long chases on boldness from killer slugging and a ton of bloodpoints for picking up survivors and healing them. You also get more time to do generator on average vs slugging if the killer fails to slug entire team as he is getting no hook states which are main way for the killer to get kills besides mori's.
I mean if your concerned about BP, perhaps you should gain more bloodpoints for picking up survivors. they did increase bloodpoint cap to 10,000 and survival points are pretty hard to come by. Maybe you get 750 survival points for picking up a downed survivor. that would be kinda cool. In general, I almost always earned around 20,000 BP on average on survivor even on the losing games. so I don't agree with this sentiment.
I do think third seal/knockout/slugging needs changes, but it's related to swf vs solo info problem with it.
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If i want to get xp and shards the most effective way to do that is, to Never have a match last more than 10 min since you dont get xp past that point (and before it gets brought up the emblem bonus xp is garbage in comparison to the time xp, 1xp/second max 600xp vs 72xp for quad irridescent)
Then you factor in rift challenges that make you as an example chase 12 different survivors, that takes 3 matches regardless of how long those matches go.
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my point is that's not really a good thing, the character they come from should be able to use them effectively. maybe not be the best with them but given that a new player wouldn't have any choices except a handful of general perks and base perks, they shouldn't be so convoluted in relation to the killers basekit.
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こんにちは。
I think knockouts will always be nerfed.
BHVR has buffed the base kit with a quick effect and a patience effect in the 10 seconds after hook rescue. This makes tunnels harder to select.
BHVR implemented a reassurance perk and made it easier to stop the timer on the hook. This makes camping harder to select.
And knockout will be nerfed next. This is expected to make slugging harder to select.
It is ridiculous to feel like you have rebalanced the game by constantly taking away options from killers.
I remember the saying "DbD is a game of choice", but does the killer have to choose between hooking the survivor 8 times evenly and then having everyone escape?
I understand that camping, tunnels, and slugging are not fun for survivors.
So what would you think if tomorrow the only killer to be matched was a nurse?
Of course I think it would take away the option to play nurse.
Sorry for my poor English.translated
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XDDDDD
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