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Deliverance / last survivor first hook
Deliverance is a great perk but it has one major flaw in game dynamic, if I've never been hooked and everyone else is dead or escaped, why do I not get the chance to escape before going straight to second phase and dying.
Everyone who has never been hooked should get their chances to escape making deliverance worth while if your the last survivor and have activated it.
I don't know how many times I've helped other players get off the hook or took a chase to help them escape to get down knowing I could get off the hook, only for them to leave and then I don't get my chance because such a stupid rule exists that prevents the last survivor on first hook from getting an opportunity to try and get off the hook.
EDIT: Just to add it also makes slippery meat worth while too
Comments
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Because it’s a complete waste of time in 99.99% of situations.
You get off the hook and then get downed. Nothing changes.
Or a person just doesn’t bother self-unhooking at all out of spite to waste the killer’s time.
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Wouldn't be that hard to give no more than 5 seconds for a survivor to attempt unhooks.
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And then you go down and nothing changes except the killer just waits out a potential 60s for DS or something, or they go and shut hatch if they haven’t done so already or whatever.
Also if you weren’t aware, in a future update, last survivor being downed will automatically Mori them anyways.
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Off the record works with self unhooks. it's still an additional chance to use your perk. Just because it's a small chance doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have it...
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- Requires getting an unhook
- Requires never being hooked till the end
- (Post-Mori update) Requires being downed while others are still in the trial, or you would auto-die
- (Game) Requires being hooked while others are still in the trial, or you would auto-die → (Your idea) Allows self-unhook attempt regardless
- Requires hatch to be open or a gate to be open. If the hatch is closed and gates aren't actually open, the killer will get there before you do to bodyblock the switch, since they’re faster than you are.
- Even with Haste from default/Hope/Sprint Burst/etc, almost any mobility ability will outrace you regardless. Thus, also reliant on the killer not being someone with mobility and also having extra Haste perks, because you’re slower by default unless they're 4.4m/s.
- If hatch is open, requires finding it before the killer does.
- Plan auto-fails if killer finds hatch first and killer has NWO (a meta perk) and shut hatch before all gens were done naturally.
- Plan also auto-fails if the killer can bodyblock or wait out the 10s. In the case of Off the Record, requires having that perk, which still won’t help you if they down you before you reach an open hatch or gate.
- And even if you have it, multiple killers have a way to play around or bypass Endurance.
- Also you seem to have forgotten OtR deactivates once gates are powered.
TL;DR - Too situational. In the absolute majority of cases where this does not play out perfectly, it's just a waste of time that doesn't change the result at all.
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Youre really such a salty killer, aren't you?
To insist THIS MUCH into not fixing an issue that is survivor sided. Let's deconstruct your while argument piece by piece.
- This is 100% guaranteed with deliverance.
- Yeah that's the whole point being brought up.
- You don't know what's coming in the mori update. They did announce something but it's been 6 months, it mightve been changed. It might even be delayed, who knows. It's still an issue right now. Arguing that "in a few months it won't be a problem" isn't a viable argument.
- You just described what I said? Yes ok?
- Keys open hatch. Also if the killer leaves you to search for the hatch, it might give you time to find it. If he facecamps you, and already closes the hatch, your chances are very slim, but you do deserve the option to still unhook and loop the killer a little more. It's also not impossible to entirely lose the killer, especially if you have perks such as lucky break or off the record. (you need OTR anyway for this to work. Your argument about "it needs to be a slow killer" is irrelevant.
- Yes that's the hatch mechanics. Reqsuires to be found. So?
- Lol. You jjust proceeded to point out how situational it would be to find yourself in that situation and your only argument is that if the killer plays a non meta perk (No Way out is absolutely not a meta perk... it's not terrible, it's okay maybe it's even good. But it's not meta.)
- You litterally just said "your plan fails if the killer has no way out" and then proceed to say "well it might work if you have the most played perk in the entire game".
TL;DR: Your sole and only argument is that "this is an issue that doesn't happen all that often and therefore doesn't need to be fixed".
Glad behavior didn't think this way about the invincible totems.
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One of the reasons that OTR change was a semi-mistake. This arguement now has any ground.
I'll still stick with - Deliverance shouldn't work, same with 4% chance of escaping. Most of the time it's just overall waste of time for a couple of extra bloodpoints. I'm not saying that all the time it wouldn't do something but most of the time it would still lead to survivor's death.
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Lol.
It was fixed because being able to struggle or unhook yourself wasted everyones time.
It was possible before, devs fixed it. And it will stay that way.
As for your deliverance example. Use it before youre the last.
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How do you expect to achieve anything when you will go down in 10s and then die anyways?
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Litterally nobody asked to revert the change. We're asking to change how it is now.
Just because it needs to be changed doesn't mean it needs to be changed like it was before.
I did make the effort to give one example of how it could be: Being hooked gives 5 seconds to attempt one unhook. If you don't, you die.
It's... Actually stupid to go P2 when being hooked for the first time as the last survivor. Just go from P1 to death?
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Use it before your the last if you don't get downed.. makes total sense.
It is useful, given the last update guarantees a short "borrowed time" effect, you still have an opportunity to escape, it may take a little tactile dodging but I think its entirely plausable to make the escape if deliverance worked, especially if off the record is on as well.
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Situational but when it works, you are happy to have Deliverance in your perks.
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Why are you letting your whole team die before you get hooked?
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I actually think the Deliverance curse is worse, where you're the first one downed and hooked so you don't get to use it. If that happens, being able to use it on your second hook wouldn't be so terrible. However, Deliverance should tell others survivors you have it so they don't waste time going for the rescue. I hate going for someone and then they yeet themselves off with Deliverance. It negates a lot of the value if other survivors stop what they're doing to go for the save.
If you don't take aggro during the match and don't get hooked until everyone else is dead, then you don't get the reward of Deliverancing off the hook. It makes sense. It's a team game. It's not meant to be 1v1. In the case of it coming down to 1v1, the killer is meant to have the advantage. The hatch is there as a consolation prize, a reason for the final survivor not to just give up or hide for 50 minutes dragging out the match. If the killer finds you and hooks you before you find the hatch, the killer won. The survivor losing but still getting another chance so that the killer is forced to win multiple times in a 1v1 gets to be unreasonable. This sort of mechanic would also encourage the killer to slug the final survivor if they haven't been hooked before. You really want the killer standing over you for four minutes while you bleed out? Already, if I lose track of a downed survivor and find the hatch, I often stand on it instead of closing it and risking having to deal with Adrenaline, especially if that last survivor is a Meg.
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How am I "letting them die", just because I didn't get caught doesn't mean I let them die LOL
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Make it automatic. Also it could be massive, with the new basekit endurance. Its entirely possible t o take a hit, and with that speed find the hatch, or with the right perks and moves, can vanish from the killers sight.
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Later this year we'll get an update in which the final survivor will be automatically mori'd
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Let's say last survivor is hooked to close an open exit so if he would unhook himself with deliverance he would get out and escape.
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As everyone on your team is getting 3 hooked, and you have deliverance ready to go, you never thought gee maybe i should take one for the team to get some pressure off. Especially since you know you can get off the hook yourself thats pretty crappy teamwork, and you making a selfish decision.
Nope sorry at that point you dont deserve to get off the hook.
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I mean i wouldnt mind if it gave you like 3 seconds to atrempt escape before it skips the phases
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If you have never been hooked, it's probably your fault everyone's dead. You should take the heat off of other survivors in difficulty.
That aside I agree with those that say it would just be a waste of time. Just give survivors a bonus BP score for being the last.
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you mean you've never been ignored by the killer to the detriment of your team, or been the guy that ran the killer enough they refuse to chase you until the others have died? you must be exceptionally mediocre and depending on point of view lucky or unlucky.
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Gratuitously insulting someone is a great way to start a discussion and shows great maturity.
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you still request a change that will only work if you pair it with a second perk, which will cause killers to stare at the hook and wait for it to happen and this is a waste of time for both sides in 99.99% of the time. and as you insinuated salty killer mains already: Im 90% survivor main and dislike a lot of changes like that.
for example the reassurance nerf was necessary. I Loved it on PTB how it massively was able to counter camping, but having 2 reassurance in game allowing to keep you on hook forever is simply a design mistake which should not exist. same as mori spamming that allowed killers to prevent bleedout. hatch standoff was boring aF. I love when things like that are removed for game health and therefore I would appreciate when there is nothing brought into the game that basically will extend most games for no value
the killer always has the option to ignore you, that is not in your hand. some killers even down you to still go for the deadhook guy, especially if you grant the killer a free down to force a hook. having one down and one needing to go for heal while chasing your death hook prey makes 3 survivors off gens while you try to get to the 3v1
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"I love when things like that are removed for game health and therefore I would appreciate when there is nothing brought into the game that basically will extend most games for no value"
Then why are you asking for a healthy change NOT to be made in this case?
Don't "im 90% survivor" if you're going out of your way to prevent survivors for having an oversight not fixed. Chill. Just let us use deliverance. If you don't think it's a good perk, no one is forcing you to use it. Just don't use it. But leave us deliverance users alone.
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What a judgemental assumption, in most cases the issue is allowing the others to escape and literally taking the chase for the team so they get out and I know I have the upper hand of being able to be hooked and escape it.
Plus you can't always take one for the team, if they are unlucky
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Should be an auto unhook, along with slippery.
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I think nothing in this post met anything I was typing before xD
I did NOT say that Deliverance is a bad perk, I said that using it as last option while being last survivor is a waste of time and the only occurrence helping out is when you combine it with another perk, but then forcing killers to stare you to death for a possible DS even if you don't have it, and picking you up a second time. The change you request is forcing a lot of time waste in 99 of 100 games, maybe even more.
That's why I said it is an UNHEALTHY change, affecting WAY more games negatively then positively. I always hated already when I didn't have DS pre-nerf but killers still stared at me, being afraid of the nonexistent stun. You would get that in every game when you pick that perk to escape the hook. Btw for consistency you would need to allow the 4% in that scenario as well, right? If that happens, don't you think that killers will just stay in front of you and wait for the kobe? In how many games do you think you would get away with your Deliverance as last survivor?
And how am I going out of my way? If Im survivor main, do I have to agree with every buff? I "90% survivor main" you because you "salty killer main" others. And I explained now twice why I don't think this is a fix to anything
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True it doesnt always work especially once people are on deathhook because why wouldnt the killer go after the deathhook guy its the correct strat especially if you are behind. This is why you need to do it before people are on death hook, it can still be useful in turning a 3v1 around.
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Idk why people are so obsessed with saving Deliverance for the end game and hope the stars align where they can self unhook and run out the exit gate.
Like the perk's biggest strength is being able to unhook yourself for free. With the basekit BT being 10 seconds, you can force a hook trade and have deliverance up while the rest of your team finishes the gens they are working on since you can just unhook yourself.
I see no reason to bring back being able to attempt to unhook yourself as the last survivor as it punishes survivors trying to selfishly use deliverance for this reason.
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Bringing back a feature that just wastes time in 99.99% of cases just for the 0.01% of cases everything lines up perfectly is illogical.
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I could agree with it as long as a gate is open, that would make sense. Because that particular situation does show a sense of teamwork.
My problem with the basic concept is not wanting to reward an extra chance to those other deliverance players who stealth around the whole game leaving their team hung out to dry, never taking a chase, going for 1 supersafe unhook to get their deliverance activated and then going back to superstealth to make sure they get hatch.
I will admit the other night, i saw this strat from both sides, and the worst offender was in a survivor match (It was also a Leon so that kinda triggered me a bit). Guy got 1 unhook early, no heal, and then disappeared. Everyone was on death hook except the guy on the hook in second stage (Running kindred for reference), just outside main building, Eerie of crows. Leon was working a corner gen outside main, i was running the killer at shack opposite corner of map, teammate was on gen in corner shack side. Unhook wide open just let him die. We all ended up getting killed with 1 gen left at about 75%, that match easily could have been a 3 or 4 man escape had Leon been willing to go for a safe unhook, and take a chase at some point in the match. Im not ashamed to say I have never been happier to watch someone get denied their deliverance than that match.
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as is starting your arguments or debates with the pre-supposition that someone hasn't been hooked because they're bad.
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You might want to refine your reading skills...
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