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I kinda like DBD now? BEhaviour fixed progression and nerfed the OP perks
I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually enjoy playing Dead By Daylight ever since update 6.1.0 released. My biggest gripe with the game was how bad the progression system was, it was a nightmare to grind and get the specific perks I needed on each character without having to spend hundreds of hours leveling up each character. Now it feels much better to Prestige 3 the characters I want to unlock perks for and I don't have to sacrifice all my perks and add-ons each time I prestige, it actually feels rewarding to Prestige now.
I have been playing everyday ever since the update released, I've had DBD since the Stranger Things Chapter and I've NEVER played the game this consistently, I would spend months without playing because I got so frustrated with the progression and the unbalanced state of DBD.
The devs don't take ages to address bugs or balance issues now, I don't know if it's because there is meaningful competition now or the devs really want to make the game a better experience for it's players, I'm just so content with the game that I got the season pass for the first time and bought all the chapters I didn't already have.
The devs now actively listen to the players and are making mostly great changes. I like that Dead Hard isn't a "get out of jail free card" anymore but I don't think the Decisive Strike nerf from 5 to 3 second was reasonable. Nerf to killer perks like Dead Man's Switch because of Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance was fair (Scourge Hooks need to be increased to 5/6 on big maps or have 1 spawn in each corner of the maps). I don't think Call Of Brine should alert killers everytime survivors succeed a Good Skillcheck (maybe just the first one). I like that killers are not rewarded for camping or tunneling now but getting -2 in Gatekeeper for being around the hook for just 5 seconds is a bit much.
Some maps are still a nightmares for killers and some for survivors but I'm glad that maps like RPD are made smaller now and I'm not getting Coldwind Farm 5 times in a row. I think a lot of maps need to be reworked and made more fun and fair for both sides.
DBD still has a long way to go to fix all the issues and really be the best game in it's genre but I'm more optimistic now than I never was. Now I just want the devs to let us practice some killers/survivors/perks in the Custom Games. I know the devs are reluctant to put bots in the game because of hackers but I really want new players to practice and not constantly get wrecked by experienced players in actual matches. I also want to try killers like Nurse or Huntress on bots as target practice.
Bloodpoint somewhat have more value now that we can set specific goals towards progression, I grinded killer to Iridescent 2 and Survivor to Gold 4, and now I got a lot of bloodpoints to prestige the character I want to unlock their perks for all the others, I still wish we got at least 1000 Iridescent Shards for reaching Irisdescent 1 though, I'll keep dreaming.
Comments
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Killers got a lot less out of the 40 perk rework than survivors. Instant regression was absolutely gutted and essentially removed. As an example you need two perks to make Pain Resonance work now. Pop is as dead as calm spirit (which nobody was using before and even less people are using now).
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I agree, the 6.1.0 update fixed many things (balance and bug fix wise). Ruin for example discourages tunneling and rewards dividing hook stages across all survivors, so you get the most value out of it. Overcharge is actually viable if you can garantuee that no survivor will touch the generator within 12 seconds. But some perks got indirectly butchered (*cough Calm Spirit cough*). What was meant as a buff was more a nerf, especially towards blessing Totems (blessing always used to make less noise than cleansing, with makes zero sense). Luckily perks like Monstrous Shrine (or Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine) and Lightweight are actually quite solid now and should definitely be looked at. Like you said, some maps are still terrible and the gap between a low-tier killer and a high-tier killer is still huge (don't expect a kill with the Onryō xD). But overall, I think these changes were a step in the right direction and the beginning of a bright and healthy future.
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...Genuine question, what's the second perk you need to make Pain Res work now? Because it's very very good on its own, frankly.
To the topic, the game's improving in leaps and bounds and both sides are benefiting from it immensely. I'm enjoying the game so much more than before those updates, and I was already enjoying it quite a lot.
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The problem isn't the Scourge Hook perk itself, it's more about the not-existing Scourge Hook spawn logic. I don't get why 4 Scourge Hooks are allowed to spawn next to each other. That makes Breakdown and Saboteur almost pointless, unless you have a whole team running these perks. For killers, on a big map like Shelter Woods you won't be able to hook survivors on a Scourge Hook most of the time. So here's my solution: Only a maximum of 2 Scourge Hooks can spawn near each other. And maps with over 10000m² shouldn't exist and instead should be made smaller.
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"what's the second perk you need to make Pain Res work now?"
BBQ or dead mans switch so you know where to go. Otherwise they just finish the last 15-20% of the generator. The old version gave a small amount of information and a small amount of regression.
"the game's improving in leaps and bounds and both sides are benefiting from it immensely"
DBD is more balanced when playing killer vs solo queue but the patch made killer Far weaker vs SWF teams. On average pre patch I was using pop 6+ times a game. Quite often this was to prevent the loss of a 3 gen setup.
If they really wanted to make the game fair then killers should have the option to DELETE dull totems if they are booned. That would mean at most a boon perk can be activated 5 times.
Also if we are wanting to make the game fair then SWF should have been restricted. A simple change of : no repeating characters/perks/items would have gone a long way to make it impossible to bully the killer with a SWF squad. Change the SWF menu so that you can see which perks are repeated (make them be red like pentimento debuff) Have all other perks appear in blue over the survivors head if not repeated (like the vigil buff).
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credit where credit's due.
there's still a long way to go and problems to fix but the devs have really been doing a wonderful job the past couple years.
i wish they would just cut down the number of chapters every year and focus on making the game better but other than that good job devs.
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Certainly those perks pair well with Pain Res, but the regression you get from it is perfectly viable all on its own, you don't actually need to pair it with anything to make it function well.
The rest of that is a bit silly, in my opinion. Both those suggestions are pretty obviously bad ones, to boot.
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SoloQ is now miserable. It's not balanced at all.
Also SWF means more information. Not a bully squad (but I can understand the frustration with those). I am pretty sure you can win a lot against SWF - you just might not know they are SWF.
Also patch 6.1 on it's own was horrible. 2 guaranteed kills by just facecamping? 3rd by getting someone with NOED. I stopped playing during 6.1. Fortunatelly we got 6.2 with reassurence that countered hard camping.
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Now they can work on us getting the add ons we want easier!
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"SoloQ is now miserable"; "Also SWF means more information. Not a bully squad"
Playing solo as the killer against an organized SWF is terrible. It's even worse when you don't know it is coming so you have the wrong perk build. Many of the perks simply don't work against a SWF.
Also playing solo as survivor largely depends on how good you are personally. People who have been playing for thousands of hours who can generally carry do well enough to safety or pip playing solo. Getting to that point can be an unfun experience.
Once upon a time there was an oversight where people figured out a way to equip extra perks as killer. This was quickly patched out as it was seen as an exploit. If we can communicate well as a SWF we might be getting 12 perks worth of information - or more. Don't you think that's a bit excessive? I have played with minimalist SWF groups that only get 4 perks worth of information and that still gives a huge advantage.
SWF is the biggest advantage you can get as a survivor because it makes you instantly better at the game with no cost.
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It is certainly a lot better than it was just a few updates ago. I figure that DBD will continue to become a much better game from here on out.
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It's not as huge as you make it sound. It can go so far with best survivors. But most of us people can't communicate that effectively.
Sure if you find that SWF (and especially if they are bullies) you get steamrolled. It's the same as getting nurse. But I am pretty sure majority of SWF are "baby nurse". They could have been OP, but they miss every opportunity to be that...
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"It's not as huge as you make it sound"
Extra information is a huge advantage. That's why SWF groups have a 15% escape advantage. For sake of comparison Freddy got reworked from his former "OP" state because he had a win rate that was apparently 4% too high.
If getting more information isn't a huge advantage then give the killer extra perks to combat against SWF groups. If that sounds oppressive then limit SWF groups in a very simple way so that it is impossible to bully the killer. How do we do that? Make the rule that no character, perk or item can be repeated in a SWF. Since most people are in a two man party that's not a big deal. People playing in a four man team can just play solo if it's too much of a hassle to coordinate perks. Better yet they could have all the perks the squad is bringing apear over that survivor's head. Non repeated perks would aooear as blue (like the vigil buff) and have any repeated perks appear in red (like the Pentimento debuff).
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Extra information is a huge advantage. That's why SWF groups have a 15% escape advantage. For sake of comparison Freddy got reworked from his former "OP" state because he had a win rate that was apparently 4% too high.
Sure, but you need to be good at the game to utilize the advantage. just because your in swf doesn't mean you will escape 15% of the time extra, it just gives you opportunity to do better. I don't understand why this gameplay right here can't just be base-kit to the survivor.
Instead needing number system to locate the survivor locations on the map, rookie spirit(to know gen progression) and bunch of other aspects such as window of opportuntiy(to know what pallets have been used by your teammates)
just give ability for every solo survivor to have global bond and you can use your game-sense to emulate most of information perks that swf use through communication.
For example, instead of aura reading on pallets, you will see the animation of your teammate dropping a pallet so you will know that pallet got used. (Window of opportunity)
If a teammate is working on generator, you can estimate that after 40 seconds, that gen is 40% complete etc. (Better together /Rookie spirit)
finding people to heal quicker instead of wasting time looking for teammate to heal you post unhook will be faster. (Empathy/Emphatic connection)
Unhooking teammates will be easier, no more having 3 people going for a save. just 1-2 survivors depending on camping-level of the killer. (Kindred)
when your looping, you'll loop away from your teammates and not bring killer to the gen to not give the killer free gen pressure and heal pressure. (Better together)
the survivor gameplay will be so much more mainstream and killer powers can be a lot stronger now because you no longer need balance the power for solo and SWF where you get this crazy-level of imbalance of 51 escape streaks...
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But this is exactly it. There is a huge difference between knowing that killer is chasing someone and knowing when, where and what direction is he going to loop them (note - away from all survivors until taking hit/flash saving/sabo is beneficial).
Both teams can be SWF, but the way they can utilize that information is on completly different level.
That's exactly why I said most SWF are "baby nurse". They could have been OP, but they can't "use" their power effectively.
If you give everone game-wide bond and other stuff (same as giving extra aura perks to killer) - you are buffing everyone to sweatiest SWF out there.
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i would say you would be giving opportunity to make everyone as strong as swf, not that every game be a strong swf since the 4 survivors could play survivor badly despite having a lot of information.
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- Pop Goes the Weasel is still used, it’s about 7% on the aggregate site I follow which is in the top 20 perks. Calm Spirit in comparison is one of the least used survivor perks now, about 0.37%, so it’s not even close between the two.
- Pain Resonance is still extremely good and is currently the top used killer perk by a pretty solid margin (29% usage)
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Along with what's been mentioned, Surveillance can also combo well with Pain Resonance.
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Gift Of Pain, Floods Of Rage, Call Of Brine, Thrilling Tremors
There could be a lot of perks... but it's finding out what works I guess
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I meant -2 in Chaser, not Gatekeeper but yeah, sometimes the hooked survivor is right on top of a Pallet or a Generator that I have to break or kick, if I stay too close for just 5 seconds to break them then I get a -1 or -2 depip and only get 1 instead of 2 pips at the end of the match, so I have to get away quickly after hooking a survivor. I almost never camp or tunnel because I'm good enough to consistently get 4Ks and double pip.
I've also been playing a lot of Wesker lately after the fix and he joined the Artist, Pyramid Head and Hag as one of my best and favorite killers to play and destroy survivors with.
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You're missing the point that Pop went from removing 20% of a generator's progress to removing an extra 2-5% progress. That's an insane nerf.
Also Pain Res needs an extra perk to make it work. Self care got this level of nerf because it is worthless now without Botany Knowledge.
Meanwhile every survivor has BT base kit. AND BT was one of the few meta perks that got buffed - which is completely insane.
Killers should have been given one free meta perk to compensate - either Deadlock, Pain Res or Corrupt Intervention to have a base slowdown mechanic.
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- Pop Goes the Weasel used to remove a flat 20 seconds, now assuming you use it on a gen that has 50-95% progress it removes 10 - 20 seconds. It's still quite useful as long as you don't waste it on a gen with no progress (which is why people still use it.)
- Pain Resonance does not need another perk to make it work. Its regression alone is worth using it.
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Before the rework Pop was fantastic for turning a gen with 20% progress down to 0% progress. Your estimate is far too generous considering it takes 2 seconds to kick the generator and not having the perk removes a flat 2.5% so we won't consider this for talking about calculations as kicking a gen without pop will always give you that value too.
If you kick a gen at 99% you will remove 17.82 seconds of additional progress. The problem is that kicking a gen with that much progress is basically a lost cause. What happens if you kick a gen at 30% progress? You remove 5.4 seconds of progress by spending two seconds kicking the generator. Bear in mind that the time you are spending kicking a generator for 2 seconds gives 8 seconds to the enemy team if 4 people are alive. That is almost completely worthless.
Pop is the perk that was carrying survivors before the rework. No big name streamers are using Pop after its rework because it was completely gutted. It was common for me to get 6-9 Pop's per game and I saw streamers have similar results. That means on average I was increasing the time needed to complete the survivor objective by 120-180 seconds.
Pop used to have great value kicking gens at 20% progress but now it essentially has zero value because you lose more time than you gain for kicking. If we consider kicking gens between 20 and 50% progress on average (35%) and multiply that by the same value we get a time savings of: 6.3 seconds per kick. So now Pop is only saving 37.8-56.7 seconds.
Translation: Pop received a 50-75% effective nerf in circumstances where I used to routinely kick generators.
Would anyone still be using Prove Thyself if it lost 50-75% effectiveness? No. The same goes for boons too.
As for Pain Resonance it really only works in circumstances where you use BBQ to see where the survivors are to follow up on the explosion or DMS which will block the generator automatically. Without another perk the Killer doesn't know where to go making the regression useless if you have to make a 33% or worse coin toss. It takes most killers about 15 seconds to cross medium sized maps (and the act of hooking takes about 15 seconds). That means the survivors had at least 30 seconds to work on the generator.
In other words without a follow up the Pain Res will have very little effect unless the gen has very low progress - in which case you didn't need the perk anyway.
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jolt is 19% and pain res is 17% according to bvhr official stats with BBQ being 16%. they said the killer perks are call of brine, overcharge, sloppy, thano(Really why is this getting used now?) and save the best for last. killer perks pretty low impact now largely for same reason of soloq vs swf problem where swf could definitely handle stronger killer perks and higher impact killer perks while solo struggles with the base-game as a whole. Same problem a lot of killer power are watered-down and devoid of much challenge and fun.
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you cherry-pick what you like and disregard what you don't like. I can do the same. Add permanent 5% running speed boost to survivors as a compensation for 10% gen/pallet/breakables speed boost+10% lower CD on hit + 10% slowdown on hit survivor's run-away speed.
Also survivors got hit on all meta perks at 6.1 while killers just needed to swap to different slowdown perks. The patch was VERY clearly killer-sided. For a few days after the patch - basically all survivor games ended up in 4K (maybe disregarding 1% top players). DS nerf, DH nerf, BT 5s resulted in people getting smacked 5s after being unhooked for very easy tunnel, 90s gens resulted in facecamp bubba getting guaranteed 2K maybe more.... And all you can think of is that POP got nerfed (but OC and eruption got huge buffs to compensate)
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You can’t just ignore the 2 seconds you get from kicking a gen when you use Pop, it’s part of the total amount the gen is regressed when you kick with it. And the gens you most want to kick with the perk have always been the ones with the most progress, that was true before the rework and is still true today. So saying it gets less value on the gens that are the lowest priority targets makes it “useless” is a big exaggeration, if you were using Pop wisely you were using it on the higher priority targets when possible and getting most of your value that way anyway.
Also I’ve seen streamers using Pop, especially in combination with either Call of Brine or Overcharge. It does get use even with its nerf.
And you’re wrong about Pain Resonance not being useful without its tracking info. Its regression alone makes it strong enough to use, in fact it’s the single most popular killer perk at the moment specifically because its regression is so good.
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I’m not sure what point you’re trying to get at? I didn’t dispute any of the perks you mentioned are the most used perks. Behaviours exact numbers are a bit different because they are looking at a 30 day timeframe and global stats where I’m looking at a two week time frame and mainly English speaking region stats but the relative percentages still mostly line up.
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"You can’t just ignore the 2 seconds you get from kicking a gen when you use Pop, it’s part of the total amount the gen is regressed when you kick with it."
You get the same 2.5% regression without Pop so it's deceitful to say look how much more regression Pop is giving.
"I’ve seen streamers using Pop"
I saw a streamer using absolute nonsense trash survivor perks in my game tonight when I was playing survivor. So what.
Pop was 75% usage before the shake up and from what I see in my games it's down to like 7% usage. See my previous figures. Pop now gives the killer 60-120 seconds fewer so it's no longer top tier.
"you’re wrong about Pain Resonance not being useful without its tracking info"
You're on the largest DBD map and you hooked someone in a corner. In the other three corners are two survivors on a generator. Which generator to do you run to? It will take you 15 seconds to cross the map so you can check only one. Your perk does nothing if the generator was very close to being completed.
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- You actually have three options - have Pop and kick gens with it, don’t have Pop and kick gens without it, and don’t kick gens. Each has a different level of regression. In order to compare the third option to the other two you need to add in that 2.5% base regression, you can’t just ignore it. It’s definitely possible that kicking with Pop is worth it but kicking without it isn’t for instance compared to not spending time kicking at all.
- My point is Pop is being used regularly by an average number of people including above average ones, it’s not a totally dead perk like you’re claiming.
- “How do you know which gen is being worked on?” Game sense, it’s not that hard actually.
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To use content creator references I would say most SWFs are like AFK During Campfire, and are a group of friends BS-ing around the game. Very few SWFs are the Hens styled survivor survival streak sweat squad. SWF also doesn't help me when my fourth is bad at the game, and we are playing together. If anything, it brings me down because now the killer has 1 person they can easily down and can intercept people going for the rescue.
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Even if it is easier to obtain skills, it is hell to spend 2,000,000 blood points to individually recover addons, obets and accessories.
Your ideas for updating the web of blood ?
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"My point is Pop is being used regularly by an average number of people"
It used to have 75% usage on killer because it worked. I can play survivor for a week and maybe see it once. That level of drop off shows that the perk is dead. If we want to talk about technicalities - Latin isn't a dead language because it is taught in school. For the same reason pop is technically not dead. Some people use it not realizing how little it does now - but most people figured it out and use something else.
Even the most casual groups I watch on twitch share information. "He has Bamboozle" gives you a warning before you should know. Imagine if your perks were all visible next to your character profile for the killer to see in a SWF game. Even small messages like the killer is over here let you know when to make the right decisions.
The simple obvious answer is that SWF gives an advantage therefore people want to play in a SWF to get an advantage at no cost. That's not fun or fair to play against as killer.
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Pop Goes the Weasel is the #18 most used perk on the aggregate site I follow. Just because it's no longer a #1 perk doesn't mean its dead. It's even well above average in terms of pick rate.
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Gen slowdown regression was changed so that you need to focus on multiple perks now to do what one or two did before. But when you see a #1 perk go to #18 that's pretty dead, Jim.
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#18 out of 100 perks is far from dead.
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What I am saying is the value gained from added intel is often squashed by the disparity of your friend's skill levels. It also can backfire when someone says "(s)he's on me" and the killer left while rounding a corner. Getting a free hit that a soloq player wouldn't have received. It requires a different play style, and failure to adapt is on the killer. Weaponize your enemy's tools against them.
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All we need now r solo q improvements and map design fixes and this game is in an amazing spot
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61% killrate is not amazing spot. The game is super unfriendly to new survivors now. It will manifest itself in time.
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Sharing the correct info can take time to learn.
But communications make you better not worse - especially when people start saying they have this perk/that perk because distortion went off.
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