dead hard is speedrunning its way back to the meta and it's scaring me shitless
number #1 or #2 most used survivor perks according to some stats
at least one or two dead hards in every lobby same with a lot of streamer lobbies.
this perk is slowly becoming as frustrating to deal with as old dh, and getting robbed out of hits when using powers that don't allow you to wait it out like wesker's bound , trickster's knives or when survivors force a lunge by going to a pallet feels awful.
if we want to improve the killer experience second chance perks and items/addons should not exist outside of dealing with camping/tunneling.
if dead hard is back to being a very popular perk it should be further nerfed imo it's not as bad as its pre nerf version but it isn't exactly balanced.
Comments
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Part of it is cheaters using a script to auto dead hard.
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Dead Hard is popular but not even close to its old usage. It used to have 40-50% usage, now it's around 20-23%. So yeah, on average maybe one person a match is using it, but it's not typically multiple people using it and more people are using other Endurance perks instead than before the rework.
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I remember my buddy saying “killers will cry about nerfed dead hard eventually “
I thought he was crazy lol
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I've seen lithe used more people were afraid sprint burst was gonna replace dead hard but lithe did tbh
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A perk that makes killers scared to swing shouldn't exist, but who am I to criticize new dh, people seams to love it.
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yes i totally agree it's not used as much as it used to be but it's slowly getting there.
it's funny that the people who said the new one was so bad and they'll never use it are using it in every build now
for reference tho nightlight for example tracks the usage rate for perks and dead hard seems to be the most popular perk rn followed by windows
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that is the main reason DH is still used a lot and why this rework was a mistake.
Subtle cheaters didn't need another tool to exploit
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with the hackers being common right now auto dead hard is indeed a big issue
and concerns about this were raised ever since the ptb
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It's annoying to deal with, but at least it's my own fault if I hit them. That's already 10x better than what we've been dealing with before the change.
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Fair point. I'm mostly fine with it because it's so easy for the survivor to screw up.
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I agree that it's slowly becoming meta again, but when I play killer it's nowhere near as frustrating and unfair as old DH. It's so much easier to bait out and 0.5 seconds is - all things considered - such a short window of time for the perk to actually work. "DH for distance" is no longer a thing, and it feels much fairer in the sense that the survivor needs to time it perfectly, whilst old DH was truly the definition of "press E to win".
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Greeding a pallet with dead hard is still a thing and leave no counterplay for the killer. Or you receive a stun or you receive a succesful dead hard.
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It's certainly still popular, but it's a pale shadow of what it used to be. I don't mind trading a down for guaranteed Deep Wound and potentially still a down a few seconds later, especially when compared to how atrociously awful the perk used to be.
It's nowhere near as frustrating as it used to be, and it's definitely balanced. If anything, it's on the weaker end of the Exhaustion perk spectrum now.
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Yes, survivor second chance perks shouldn't exist but neither should slowdowns. I think this game has dug itself a hole too deep to come out of.
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Seems like the bbq and chilli equivalent for survivors lol. They're both crutch perks that are horribly overused. 60% of the killers in games I've played today have used fecking bbq and chilli.
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Killer main moment (from a fellow killer main)
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It indeed takes more skill against full M1 killers, like Trapper, Freddy, Sadako, Wraith etc.
Against killers with power it's an easily 3rd health state. Pig's dash, Oni, Pyramid, Blight, Nurse, Nemesis, Wesker. It doesn't need that skill I'm afraid.
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Dead hard is balanced more than ever! It makes meta killers like nurse and blight better to deal with as survivor while killers like clown or ghostface can easily bait it out.
If you have a problem with dead hard even after all it’s nerfs and general killer buffs, then you’re simply not good as killer.
Post edited by legacycolt on6 -
not a killer main not a survivor main nor do i main one killer or one survivor i play whatever this game has to offer and i post about problems on both sides <3.
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Dead Hard is still the chase exhaustion perk. If you want the killer to keep chasing you after you use it and make the chase last longer there is no better alternative.
All other exhaustion perks are getaway perks. They can generally be used to give you enough distance that the killer often reconsiders whether or not they want to keep chasing you, especially if there's no generators over there.
When they nerfed Dead Hard I knew it would still be a meta exhaustion perk. None of this surprises me.
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it's balanced more than its earlier version that's for sure but it's not 100% a balanced perk
the nerf removed some frustrations with the perks but kept others, 1- you're still forced to breath down a survivor's neck for a few seconds before you swing just so they press the e key. 2- survivors can pretty much greed a pallet and you either have to take a chance and lunge and get dead harded or wait and get a pallet on your head.
3- some killer powers can not bait out dead hard like i said wesker's bound or even a pig's dash both get hurt the same with no way around it yet nurse and blight don't even get hurt by dead hard even if they fell for it cuz they'll be right on top of you in a second plus they have means to bait it out.
the perk is still very usable against m1 killers as long as a pallet or a good window is nearby imo.
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it's definitely the most fun pick out of all of them followed only by a well 99 sprint burst and then using it mid chase.
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I don't disagree with you buddy. I'm just stating that the "DH takes more skill" is not true at all.
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I've been seeing more of the rarer exhaustion perks like Smash Hit or Balanced Landing a lot recently, it's like a breath of fresh air, plus Dead Hard has counterplay and I wouldn't mind seeing it meta again, just wait it out for the 0.5 seconds and the survivor has no protection. But seeing different Exhaustion perks is a shocker for me after all the Dead Hards I had to go through for the 3 years I had played this game.
I still have PTSD from all the Dead Hard for distance I played against, every single game there was at least one person with it. But those days are gone. :D
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Well I have some advice for you,,, just bait it
MUHAHAHAHAHAA FINALLY I CAN SAY THAT AND THERE'S NOT COUNTER ARGUMENT TO IT, the single complaint with old dead hard was you couldn't bait it if they used it for distance, well here we are, IF it gets popular again, there's your solution, bait it
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Bbq a crutch? Are you effing joking lmao! If not then idk what to tell you. All it literally does is provide a new target for the killer 40+ meters away. Plus there are 11 something counters to it last time i checked. Probably more now, I thought you survivors hated camping and tunneling? Well bbq helps with that problem. Not to mention the killer still has to get to them and down them. Doesn't even come close to the power of taking a free hit
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it...does, though. You basically have to use it like a parry now, which like parries, tends to rely more on conditioning and forcing 50/50s than it does reaction. Disregarding people using cheats or similar outliers, the skill floor is considerably higher than it used to be, while its skill ceiling is slightly higher. That means that it takes more skill than it used to.
contrary to popular belief in this game, mindgames and reads are events involving skill, not blind guesswork.
In a weird way its actually one of the best balanced perks in the game right now.
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I can't believe we're still complaining about Dead Hard
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9 of the best, most used killer perks: nerfed into oblivion and completely unused now.
4 of the best, most used survivor perks: nerfed into oblivion and completely unused now.
The two MOST USED survivor perks in the game: buffed and are still being massively used.
Meta shake-up indeed.
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people waaaaaaay over exaggerate the supposed "skill" required to use dead hard
it's a game of who reacts faster, see killer lunge or use power? ---> press E or force a killer to lunge at a pallet and ---> press E if you can do it in time you win if you can't then oh well
it's very rarely where you actually feel a survivor outplayed you with it. its increasing popularity is probably due to survivors knowing how to force it imo plus it's good to know that you have a possible safety tool when you lost a chase, however it's not guaranteed to give you value as before.
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Yes, the new DH is gaining popularity, now that survivors got some time to get used to its quirks and timing.
Its the exhaustion perk of choice for power survivors,because it can be used midchase and on demand when you are most vulnerable, ie wounded and out in the open/out of position.
BUT that's ok. I applaud BHVR for succeeding at the seemingly impossible: ending DHs stranglehold on the game and pulling its tooth, while not nuking it from orbit and nerfing it into the ground. In the right hands it's still extremely effective, but it's window of opportunity is extremely small.
Most survivors will try to bait you via brute force, ie suddenly turning tail during a chase and running directly at you. In this case its your responsibility to correctly identify this ruse and just let them hit the floor 0.6s later.
DH is still strong in the right hands, but to gain value from it survivors have to play clever and have a plan, and you can crush their arrogant dreams of superiority pretty consistently.
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So with Dead Hard before if you waited to bait it out they made the window/pallet but if you swung they Dead Harded then made the pallet or window. Now if you see them coming to a pallet if you wait out the Dead Hard, they drop the pallet on your face, but if you swing they Dead Hard and get a speed boost to another tile. Seems like it's actually stronger now lol
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Literally impossible, there's a widespread script that auto-deadhards for you
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I can see why you might feel that way, because reactions are not how you're supposed to use it. "its increasing popularity is probably due to survivors knowing how to force it" is how you use it. Believe it or not, being able to force those situations is actually skillful, because strategy is skill. You can't use it and vault mid animation or anything like that, it always has both its risk and its reward present: Its a mixup tool. You can use it to force your opponent into a situation where they need to make a guess to either fail or succeed, and refusing to commit to either automatically results in you winning the exchange. Its different from an unwinnable situation because there will always be a gap: you can't put down a pallet or vault or anything while it is active, so you need to time its duration and the defensive interaction to be as close as possible. Likewise, the killer needs to have a similar timing precision in order to land their hit after the active duration but before the pallet drop would stun them and prevent the hit, as well as the possibility of a trade in the killer's favor. The skill comes in being able to set that situation up, as well as the timing precision to reduce the killer's window to succeed.
You know how parries worked in street fighter 3? you pressed forward. There was no crazy button input or anything, you just took a small step forward and it came out if you timed it right. It was also used much more with hard reads on what your opponent was going to press rather than requiring 15+ frames of warning before reacting and then going for it. It was also arguibly the most skilled version of a parry mechanic that has existed in the franchise, and also led to one of the most memorable moments in fighting game competitions. All by something that involves pressing one button at the right time.
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dont worry, all the killer tears will have them nerf dead hard again and make the time 0.1 second.
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I haven't had any issues with the new dead hard outside of cheaters but they're cheaters so.
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part of it is cheaters, which isn't even a dead hard problem at this point. Other than that, every time I've hit a dead hard, it has literally just been a me problem and then it doesn't happen again the rest of the match.
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They nerfed Calm Spirit.
Your move
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I'm pretty new to playing killer, little yellow baby budding Trickster main. And I was in a lobby yesterday, where all of the survivors not only took the same character with the same outfit, which made tracking them very hard but they all had rank three dead hard. I was so annoyed like I don't have issues with SWFs, it's how I got into the game. But do you really need to sweat that much against someone who is very obviously new?
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They dont know who they're going against, the same reason that I use meme build as survivor only to vs 4 slowdown Nurse.
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I get that I do, but I just can't help but feel it's a little bit sweaty. Could just be inexperience talking or maybe I'm just sick of being chased by survivors during the match all the while they're bagging me or when they all T-Bag me at the exit gate. 😶
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People will complain about anything and everything possible, it's just natural. People will complain about this, and that. People will even complain about people complaining. Sometimes youll even see the occasional "Us VS Them" post, "killers mains hate this" and "survivor mains hate that". Welcome to the forums, want a cup of coffee while youre here?
Also my only concern with DH though is cheaters getting a hold of Dead Hard and abusing it, but frankly that can be said about literally every perk in the game... and also it is solved by BHVR getting a better anti-cheat anyways.
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No it's not. Approximately half the dead hard users I see are using the script.
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You can't bait scripts.
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Does BHVR even ban for auto Dead Hard cheats? Seems like something they would just be like "well they COULD have done that legitimately. I'll allow that"
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From what I've seen in streams, I think the Auto DH cheat/script is pretty difficult to legitimately call out. Unless it's blatantly done multiple times in a row and caught with screen capture/record. Otherwise, it just looks like a very good or lucky DH activation.
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I guess its time for another nerf, amirite?
-1 use per trial
-Cannot use when the gates are powered up
-0.1 seconds of endurance
-If you get the endurance than you get the broken status affect for the rest of the match
Post edited by Rudjohns on4
