How was kill rate of 53% "below our expectations"?
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They are, but they're also higher MMR. Mid and low MMR is a struggle. I play both sides equally and just gave up on survivor now because I'm tired of my teammates running around like chickens with their heads cut off every single match, throwing the game. None of them know how to loop the killer and just because I get hatch doesn't mean my MMR is increasing since it doesn't count as a win. I wish they'd make it count as a win, especially since there are perks dedicated to helping a survivor find the hatch. I think that'd help a lot for those of us who are decent or skilled players move up instead of being stuck in a never-ending cycle of bad games.
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youtube, twitch, livestreams, forums. Its all available. People win and lose all the time across the platforms, as is normal.
But if you're not going to listen to anyone besides those in your own echo chamber there's not much to say.
Like I said, that's the kill rate across the whole game. We know that in lower skill matches the kill rate is very very high. To balance it out, the kill rates for mid and high MMR have to be quite a bit lower.
If we want the game to be anywhere near balanced at higher brackets we need the kill rate higher than 50% because at low levels killers get 4ks all the time, skewing the % by a decent amount.
Ideally we'd get an MMR breakdown but that's not what we got.
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I play both sides and my solo matches are fine for the most part.
I really don't think I'm in high MMR.
Yes teammates can be bad, but that's part of any team based game. It doesn't mean the games unbalanced, it just means people are dumb or just not good at the game, which isn't news.
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Well, when 3 teammates die while 4 to 3 gens still need to be done, it's kind of hard to win at that point. I'm mediocre at looping, which is harder to do on console with a controller. But still I manage to escape chases more often than going down. But I wish they'd let the hatch count as a win because I end up getting that more often then just giving up.
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calling overcharge oppressive is just weird, that perk is kinda doodoo
but you dont make a horrible point, but thats honestly a problem with both sides having perks that are way too impactful, and its been that way for so long
i can play nurse with range and recharge and 4 genslow, or i can play with my friends and run multiple fast medkits/toolboxes with coh and adrenaline and yada yada, and also run a map offering for either. there's such a stark difference between those examples and just base survivor and killer.
perks/items/addons probably shouldnt be having such a hard say in winrate but they most definitely do.
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The devs don't target 50% kill rate.
They target 60% kill rate
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For me, the problem with these stats is that it means a large majority of the player base is guaranteed to lose most of the time. There's only so many losses a person with average dedication to a game can take before they leave. That's just how humans work.
Thanks to this, I have all survivor challenges cleared already but I am not even halfway through the killer side because queue takes too long. No, I can't play earlier or later because I have work. If I don't get a match in a reasonable time and I'm not in the mood to get facecamped again, I play something else.
I really wish we had the pre perk rework situation. I don't care about getting less kills, I still averaged a 2k per match with most of my killers. But at least I could get bp, get challenges done and actually play the game instead of scrolling on my phone.
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I really wish they'd do a further breakdown between solo and swf. But I'm sure I know why they won't
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That's not the point, it's just how bad solo q really is.
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Actually it is. They have comms and can plan out perks before the match. Solo q you have no idea who you're teaming up with, what perks they have, what they're doing during the match if they're being chased by the killer unless they are the obsession, you have a perk to see their aura or they are hit/downed. In a SWF, if a player sees the killer somewhere, they can announce where they are. It's not possible in solo q. Lack of communication is a huge hindrance to survival. Second is lack of planning.
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The devs at one point stated SWF groups had a 15% higher escape rate compared to solo q.
Not to say SWF groups can't lose, but they do have an affect on the escape rate.
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Yeah those games are really hard to win. My advice there would be to intentionally get chased to try and get as much time for your team as possible. Low Skill brackets means no Nurse/Blight so you should be able to loop a decent amount of time if not the entire match, especially with how many pallets and strong loops are in the recent maps + reworks.
You might have to improve your looping a bit. Being a good looper is, imo, the single most important skill in solo. Regardless of how bad your team is at looping, they can hold M1 on a gen while you have the killer's attention.
Sometimes, there's nothing you can do if you just get potatoes/babies to the point they don't even do gens, but that's something that can never be fixed from a game dev perspective.
Hatch being a "win" leads to problems. Like the corner crouching Claudette that didn't touch a gen all game shouldn't be getting seen as skillful and make it into higher MMR matches when she clearly cant play the game. That's a hard one to work around.
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I never disagreed so much with the devs before those kill/escape rates. The fact that they did it on purpose makes me angry.
Why would you think it's a good idea to make people lose more on one side? I agree the killers must be scary but it musn't be to the cost of the fun. It's a video-game, it shouldn't be frustating to play survivor.
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Playing both sides relatively equally doesn't make you a main on either side.
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Your point? I'm pretty sure they dont play both equally so.
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Funny I remember survivors throwing tantrums when killers got 10% buffs and DH was nerfed but sure killers are spoon fed babies
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Conveniently forgetting everything else from that patch?
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Yea, and you forgot the basekit buffs for killers.
None of my build for nerfed and I'm pretty sure I'm losing more now, so.
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Yes I do killers lost 9 meta perks
Survivors lost 4 but got basekit BT which they whined over and got its duration doubled
Not to mention things like OTR getting gigantic buffs
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I guess it depends what "fine" means to you personally. What percentage of your games are you escaping (you have to accurately track across dozens of games for the percentage to mean anything)?
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Lost 9 meta perks and got other meta perks.
Gens went from 80 seconds to 90 seconds.
Killers recover faster after hits, killers break pallets faster, bloodlust got buffed, survivors hit speed boost got nerfed.
If you still think that patch wasnt killer sided you're delusional.
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I'd say around 30%.
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The true strength and most important part of SWF, is weeding out weaker players and voicing coordination.
Its not that solo que is weak, because 4 good solos are really strong. Is that solo que means your at risk of getting bad teammates or teammates with bad game sense.
You can make up for bad game sense by telling them what to do, that option is not available in solo. You can choose to not play with weaker players in SWF, that option is not available in solo.
Built in pings/coms/icons can help the game sense issue, you can't really do anything about getting weak teammates every so often.
Overall, it might be fine, but there can be improvements.
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A single stage of bloodlust was buffed
Doesn't change that killers lost more then twice the perks as survivors while getting nothing on the level as OTR or the thankfully PTB exclusive infinite endurance
Oh no 0.2 second faster hit recovery and palet breaks what a tragedy
It was a balanced patch with slightly less survivor nerfs and was extremely healthy for the game
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I think that some people are missing/forgetting that this stat BHVR has given us is across ALL skill ranges. Would the game be balanced with a 50% kill rate that really was a 15% kill rate at high MMR and an 85% kill rate at low MMR? New players would get annihilated but at high MMR typically all 4 get out, but the summary stat across the entire game shows the kill rate at 50%. Are we balanced? This is what the 61% is currently. It's not enough info to draw out reasonable conclusions, whats the kill rates at MMR brackets? whats the kill rates of solo vs swf?
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I always assume stats are skewed because a lot of people throw games to do tome challenges
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I mean not even remotely the same but it would still tie into my point that their internal statistics are extremely flawed and that they willingly allow it to happen. And no, it would actually be lower with these considerations because, again, if someone throws a game and hook suicides right at the start it is a 1v3 and not a 1v4 match, which causes at least 2 other people to very likely die regardless of other factors. That match does not get thrown out and gets treated the same as a real 1v4. I give room for one because of the statistical anomoly of the hatch, which can allow escapes in even games where people stand no chance and does not require being earned in any capacity. Making it another point similar to my original one.
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Depends on MMR-Region.
I would love to see killrates only in top-mmr.
Killer-Buffs would be the follow.
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Survivors are supposed to suffer
its what the entity wants
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If they released solo q survival rates they’d have a riot on their hands lmao
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And if they show us SWF-Results... i dont need to say more.
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They want Killer to be the power role that is in line with what you would expect with an asymmetrical horror game. It would honestly be fine too if they did a pretty good job at balancing it, so skill mattered more than RNG and teammates.
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Its not. Its absolutely not fair for solo-q-survivors.
Why? Because a survivor can play how he wants. Even if he is a god in the game, he would still lose if the team sucks.
Killers are always on their own and dont need to fix errors from other teammates.
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I'm of the opinion that they did too much at once and should have nerfed Dead Hard first. Obviously just my take on it, but I'm seeing a lot of not great killers being absolutely carried by their perks since the big patch. It's ok for a killer with 700 hours to lose to a 20k hr team by a wide margin. That's what balance and skill-based play looks like.
You shouldn't be able to compete just because you show up, and it feels like BHVR is trying to accommodate the absolute average player on one side at all costs. Again, just my experience, but I wasn't struggling pre-patch on any killer that I played regularly.
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My point is that I say solo queue is fine for me and I do play both sides equally as do many of the others saying its fine for them. Where I find many people run into what I consider to be a mistake is that they generalize and discount what other people are experiencing without knowing what they are experiencing.
As an example, solo queue is fine for me but that only applies to myself. It's obvious other people such as yourself and @Pulsar are having issues and I think it would be better to find out or discuss why. Is it expectations? Is it different MMRs or regions? Is it playstyle or load-outs? Is it some of the changes?
It's very easy to try to discount other people's experiences by saying but they're an X main but, while many are very self-interested in their suggestions, that doesn't mean that other people don't understand the other side. As an example, Otz, Dowsey, Scott Jund, and CoconutRTS are Killer mains but they understand and play survivor better than over 95% of survivor mains.
Personally, I find the 39% escape rate concerning. However, we still don't have full knowledge of what that entails. How much of that is from beginning players? Is the escape rate higher than 60% at high MMR? I'd like to see Reassurance buffed myself to one minute duration and the range doubled at least as the skill floor for camping is low and the skill floor to counter camping is at least medium so I think that would help.
But, the only thing that we do know is that there is a wide variety of experiences being reported. For myself, I think it's more productive to consider why rather than have a narrative of it's all good or it's all bad and then discount anyone who doesn't fit my narrative.
Post edited by TheSubstitute on1 -
Well it gives even more BP than a regular escape. The "rules" for wins or losses are community-makings anyway. There are no official rules what winning or losing is.
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This is why BHVR hid the numbers before the nerf. They KNEW it wasn't justified but were going to ram it through anyways. "Killer should strike fear into the Survivors" is a poor excuse for further breaking the games balance. They're inducing frustration not fear and the DCs/suicides will continue until BHVR understands the difference. As well as killer queues growing as it dawns on survivors nothing is going to be done for soloQ because kills are "within a range that we’re comfortable with",
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Yeah, i just die go next if my teammates are useless and the killer is using the sweatiest build imaginable. Solo q already hurts my soul i dont need to stay in a match like that. The current 39% escape rates is absolutely shameful and they should look into trying to increase it a bit.
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so overall escape rate is 39% and soloq one is like how much - 30%?
exclude pity hatch that is common ritual in dbd and it is 25%
2-3 escapes out of 10 in soloq that definitely sounds about right. balanced btw
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if I'm being blunt overall kill rates are irrelevant as for it to mean something we would have to see the kill rate of varying killers at all mmr levels. Solo q does need some help with base kit info and more accurate mmr but otherwise it's fine.
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There's an article somewhere whey they said they want the average kill rate to be 2.4, because they feel that is what satisfies most killer players. 2.4 is 60%, so the average kill rate is only 1% higher than they want it to be. It's almost unbelievable how the numbers have shifted exactly how they wanted them to.
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This. If you are solo queueing alone in low mmr, good luck getting out of there. You can hope that the killer just drops chase if you run them long enough, but I feel you will just be camped to death if you do so. Which is weird I really don't get how some other killer mains think and what they derive fun from in this game.
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Where can I read this? Must be in the tutorial-section of the game. But I cannot find it.
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You have to remember it is far, FAR easier to give up as a survivor and that skews the data. Also gotta remember the game is far more killer balanced at the earlier levels which is why blanket kill rates mean almost nothing in terms of how balanced the game feels right now.
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oh yeah the game feels real "balanced" with all the DCs, suicide on hooks, tunneling, and camping. Solo q feels real balanced right now.
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How do they get use out of those perks without pressure and skill? How easy do you think killer is?
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The goal was to increase kill rates. Higher kill rates means higher Survivor death rate, which means Survivors will drop and Killers rise in MMR. Too low kill rates before the update implies that some Survivors and Killers were in MMR ranges where they don't belong, and these players dropping/rising is included in the stats.
39% survival rate means you will die in 6 out of 10 games (or 60 out of 100), but again this includes Survivors who are supposed to be dropping in MMR and Killers who are supposed to rise in MMR. That doesn't seem too extreme to me.
🦆🦂
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Yes it should. Pvp games mean you have to push yourself to improve. Part of the fun of a game is supposed to be losing, learning, and overcoming challenges. If you want to always win and be in god mode, go play a single player game.
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Well according to the stats - pretty damn easy now.
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Just because you didn't use DH doesn't mean it wasn't the most popular perk since release
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