How was kill rate of 53% "below our expectations"?
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Dishonest hyperbole helps no one.
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FYI a "53% killrate" ranges from a 2 hook game (a clear loss) all the way to a 10 hook game (a clear win), while also taking every single game accross the entirety of the playerbase into account.
It is not an accurate balance measurement tool at all and it was most likely not the main reason why Killers were buffed either.
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Yeah 61% seems pretty fair meaning most of the time at least 1 survivor will die with a moderate chance if 2 or 1 survivor escaping
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Im curious, if we make it a 61% escape rate would you be this happy?
Nobody should have any advantage. Even in a 1v4 it should still be balanced 50:50
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Do you think this averages to a 3k or something?
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WARNING - YOUR NEXT POST WILL BE 1337....PLEASE MAKE IT MEMORABLE AND DO NOT WASTE IT HERE.
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I could honestly care less if the stats were 90/10 if camping/tunneling would be hard punished and on the flip side for every 60 seconds a survivor is left on a hook, one full hook state, all gens should lose 50% of their progress and each survivor becomes injured.
If they are going to balance the game around solid teamplay then it needs to be forced. Otherwise give us an alternate play mode.
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Yeah. I've played maybe 25 games since the patch. Games are boring. Killer gets immediate pressure, wins with maybe two gens being done. Played this weekend for the first time since Wesker came out. All boring Wesker games where he dashes back to the hook for the easy hook trade.
After two games tonight I was spent.
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"But if you're not going to listen to anyone besides those in your own echo chamber there's not much to say."
"I can easily say the people complaining about solo que are just entitled survivor mains that need to git gud if I want to be a brick wall.
There's no point in opening a conversation if you're only going to listen to the side that already agrees with you and discredit everyone else."
???
How ironic since that is exactly what you are doing 😂
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For a PvP game it just shows that BHVR doesn't know what balance actually is.
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Three of those perks require the killer to go through the map, chase people off gens, and kick the gen. Yeah, just as skillful as repairing a gen, but then Pain Res requires downing and hooking on a Scourge hook. So... I don't know, your build example is only good IF the killer is actually pressuring and downing people as well as kicking gens.
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I think a 55/45 split would be ideal. 60/40 feels a bit much, and buffing solo queue would likely bring us to that ideal 55/45 split.
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Where?
I'm saying go out and find more examples and information like I did on top of my own experience and reasoning.
They discredited everyone, including me, by saying "anyone who thinks its fine is a killer main and doesn't know what they're talking about."
What's the point in even talking to someone with that attitude? They already made up their mind before the conversation even started.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
60-65% is balanced.
Also keep in mind that u should take a look on every killer on its own. While survivors are all the same (basically), every killer is unique and should be looked at differently.
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Survivors arent all the same because SWF =/= Solo.
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I mean the characters. A Dwight has the same weapons like a Meg or a Bill. Some are bigger, some smaller, but no special ability for each survivor.
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Yes, I understand that. But what can be done to differentiate low tier killers like trapper/myers/sadako etc and solo q survivors from high tier killer like nurse/blight and swf?
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Do you not see the flaw in this logic? You lost TWO games and immediately go to saying that the game is unfair/unfun. That’s a you problem
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Two games that day. About 25 since the patch. Do I have to play 100 games before I can decide what is fun or not? 1,000?
Or maybe the flaw in the logic is actually on your end. Like, maybe it's up to the individual to decide what is fun or not fun? If you're having fun that's great. My friends cut bait after about six games post patch. For me it was 25ish. If you're still having fun, good for you. But don't tell me, that it's my flaw when I say I'm not having a good time playing a game.
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The situation we are at now can be explained by the following factors:
- DbD used to be heavily survivor sided at launch. This spread thousands of videos and memes about killers being clowns, and gave the game a reputation. The developers have this complex of making killers as powerful as possible now and overcompensate.
- These forums are heavily killer sided and dedicate themselves 24-7 to cry and whine about every single thing that benefits survivors in every way. You can also see it in a lot of Streamers that are killer mains. Very entitled, crying for buffs and nerfs left and right. Behaviour listens to these peope.
- They want to fight the "pay to win argument" : With this motto: "tHe MoSt PoWerFuL KiLlER iS FrEE" (Nurse). This is one of the biggest reasons she hasn't been balanced. No matter what, they will always throw it at people how the most powerful (though her being powerful isn't the issue, her being completely broken is) killer is free. So there's no pay to win.
- They only really care about 2 groups : Dedicated killer players (to keep the game alive) and SWF (money, big numbers of players). And those two groups have been enjoying constant buffs and cookies being thrown at them for years. -Nobody- cares about solo Q. Solo Q is like the middle class in societies. They pay every bill and suffer every penalty.
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To be honest I think BHVR always wanted at least 1 K per game and 61% would be around that. That would mean every Killer with decent skill would be able to net 1 K per game allowing them to pop up.
That being said I think they should of released more detailed stats on where these Kills vs Escapes are coming from with the global average. This way we could really see where more balance fixes can be done and how they could go about it.
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we're comparing KILLERS vs SURVIVORS. both are not fundamentally designed to be 50 50. in an asymmetrical game the killer has to be more powerful than the other role. 50 50 on a 1 vs 4 game is NOT balanced
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This explains the increase in cheating, suciders, gen rushers and disconnects. I understand BHVR wanted a scary game, but it's almost like they never intended survivors to be smart enough to figure out game mechanics. When they saw that the killer and survival rates were too close together (close to balance as you're gonna get btw), they were like lets nerf and buff some things to make it killer sided. We want the killer to be scary! No BHVR, after a couple hours of playing, the game is no longer scary. All you did was encourage bad behavior to survivors who have given up on even remotely trying and wanting nothing to do with the role because the chances of surviving is stacked against us. As a survivor main, I prefer playing killer.
I don't even blame killers or survivors. I blame the company who made this game. Literally made the changes they did so that killers would be on top. Why does it have to be an on top situation? Why are you holding unskilled players' hands and helping them get their kills? You handicapped a role in order to see an increase in another roles kill rate. How can you want that for your game? I've already seen an increase in cheaters. All they are going to do is come back because the bans aren't IP based, it's account based. So all they do is go buy the game again and cheat. You know why they do that? Because they think the game is a joke and if BHVR isn't taking the game seriously, why should they? We're all just here to have fun after all.
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Your experience is your experience. The problem is that many people with your mentality think the game should be balanced around their fun, which isn’t true. I’m sorry you don’t dominate killers anymore.
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Yup, mostly on the killer side. It looks like every single killer player sweats harder every time, as if losing a match or not getting all 4 kills will have a negative, unrepairable impact on their real lives. Almost as if they would die outside of the game, if they weren't to sweat more than 50 russians in a sauna. But I agree on that, and that's something that is widely known at this point. BHVR just tends to put band-aids overy everything, instead of solving issues in the game for good. And about Dead Hard, there are so many occasions in which it simply, for no valid reason, refuses to work. It did prior to the change and it still does now.
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Please name any sports or any competitive game where one side has an inflated chances of winning?
Why play a game/match if you know your skill has way less weight than your opponent? It makes winning and losing way less meaningful.
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U know that DBD is not a competetive game, right? Its a casual game.
By the way: It takes no skill to press W, hold a button (Left-Mouse) and press Spacebar sometimes.
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Are we sure though? I would say it should be casually competitive. There is two sides with a clear objective and failing to do either objective results in a loss. There is a MMR matchmaking in place.
That is like saying there is no skill to play football. All you have to do is run sometimes, throw the ball, catch the ball. I would say it takes a tremendous amount of skill, especially with all the things you have to think about.
Killers shouldn't have an extra advantage to win. It is not fair at all.
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Just played a game on RPD against an artist that hooked someone, camped them to death while spamming birds, another person DCed, and she 4Ked with like 4 gens up and slugged me while looking for the 4th. This game is genuinely so ######### unfun with killer sweats and the best strategies being the most unfun. Survival rates at mid to low mmr in soloQ is around 25% and I don't think this game is fun anymore, no wonder there are way fewer amazing survivor mains, they either left for killer or left for good.
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But you're taking the kill rate stats seriously?
The ol cherry pick analysis works every time.
"I measured 3 things but I only believe the first two, why because I don't like the third one"
Without any relative differences to compare between, the blanket percentages are just a novelty.
Given the theme and design of the game you'd expect a killer skew to the overall numbers, which is what its at so I say BHVR have hit their goal, speaking very generally.
It does not mean that as a survivor you only have a fixed 39% chance of escape.
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People still mistaking kill rates as win rate?
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Perhaps the Self-Care users are just so skilled that they do not influence the kill rates in any capacity.
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Because it's stating that as a generalization for all people. It's more accurate to say some people aren't having fun and then try to figure out why some are having a good time and some aren't.
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The ones having a "good" time in solo q are always the ones with killer sided posts on the forums. Makes you think.
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I just posted my solo queue games from Sept 13th to yesterday which brought me from Ash IV to Iri IV. My escape rate was 45% this run around with my meme builds having lower escape rates and my builds centered on SB, OTR and Deliverance having a 68% escape rate. 75 games were recorded and the data (and video links) summarized here
I'm having a good time in solo queue. I do think that two priorities for BHVR should be icons for solos and buffing Reassurance as I think that would help out the people not having fun and just because I'm having fun doesn't mean that others are and all reasonable attempts should be made to ensure everyone has fun.
How does that qualify as a killer sided post?
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Or maybe their posts aren't so much "killer sided", but honest takes form people with a sense of both sides, and who understand the struggles of both sides*. I think it's a matter of perspective, but I don't think people who main one side or the other are really the best arbiters of what is a "killer sided" or "surv sided" opinion. A centrist position will always seem partisan when you are on one of the extremes.
I am having a good (not great) time in solo. Solo needs help more than ever, but it's not torture. I don't expect everyone else to feel how I feel (though I think many people who think solo is pure torture genuinely can't comprehend someone not feeling the same way), but I really think those who are just intransigent in their position that playing solo is worse than waterboarding are in an emotional, irrational state, and probably need to take a break.
*certainly there are killer mains pretending they play solo, but there are just as many surv mains pretending like they play killer, so I think that's a wash.
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I cannot understand how everyone is saying, killers are op.
These are my last 21 survivor-games (to be fair: together with a friend - 2man).
I WILL POST AFTER 100 GAMES AGAIN.
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I do agree that some people may be being intransigent. Part of my motivation for doing my recordings was because when I said I was having fun in solo queue some people, none of whom are in this thread, tried to say I don't play solo queue. Now if they tell me that I don't play solo queue or that solo queue is intolerable for everyone I can ask them to look at the videos and tell me what is so intolerable about my games. The other motivation was to give an honest point of reference for people who wanted to see what the games of other people who are not streamers looked like.
I do know some people, even those whom I don't believe are exaggerating in the slightest, have said they're having issues so I agree an issue is there. Most feedback I see however is along the lines of Killers have it too easy, revert 6.1 or revert DH (one of which is not true and two of which would be mistakes).
I mean I did get squashed like a bug in some games but there are also some games in there where the Killer got 0 or 1 hook. That would not have been fun for the Killer and it would be dishonest to only consider the games where I was the bug and not the games where I was the windshield.
There are some things that could help solo queue but my position is also hyperbole doesn't help and a more balanced discussion would be better.
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It makes me think killers are good at the survivor role, because they understand how the killers work, so they are good in chases against killers.
The people that complain the most about solo q, seem to be survivors that really don’t understand killer mechanics, and instead of learning the strengths and weaknesses of the killers, they just want to complain instead.
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I wish people showed them streaming instead of posting just text or end screenscreenshots, or edited videos. I'd really like to see them escape that much in solo q on stream
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Yea I'm sure killer mains are better at survivor than survivor mains, I'm also better at killer than killer mains apparently
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I understand the struggle of low tier killers as someone who mains both freddy and pig, but I also understand solo q which is what I main.
When I ask people why they have a good time in solo q they always say its because I dont care about winning or whatever. Yea, If I dont care about winning as trapper, I'm also having a good time.
There are way more killer mains pretending to main survivor on here, these are the forums after all, it's mostly an echo chamber for killers, everyone can see that if they've been here for more than a week.
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Shame, that was a good post up until the last line, when you threw your credibility out the window.
All you see is killer complaints, but somehow haven't noticed the veritable river of complaints about Nurse, slowdown, NOED, tunneling, camping and a million other things. Hell, Nurse complaint threads might be the most common post type of all in recent memory, at least until 6.1.0. There have been lots of days where I visit the board and like 15 of the top 20 topics are surv complaints.
But those aren't really crying because they're valid, right?
There's an ebb and flow (the old salt tide, if you will), killer was miserable for a while, so there were more killer complaints. Now survs got the short end a bit, and the last couple months have been very much surv complaint time. But on balance, the pissing and moaning of the mains is pretty close to balanced here. There's no "echo chamber" here, that's wild hyperbole.
Opposing viewpoints just scream out at some people (usually those with a heavily biased viewpoint) and blind them to everything else.
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Credibility? Are you new here? If you're not I'm sure you know the forums are mostly frequented by killers, right? It's not that hard to see.
I see people complaining about camping, tunneling and nurse yes, but in comparison to what the forums mostly have, is not that much.Just because killers dont have much to complain right now, I mean, just look at the kill rates, doesnt mean the forums havent, and arent mostly frequented by killer players.
Nowhere did I mention the word "crying" i dont think. But yes, solo q complaints are valid.
If there's no echo chamber here, you just choose to be blind to it. You cant make people see things that arent convenient for their agenda. And I'm not even gonna try.
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I've seen plenty of biased and quite aggressive people on survivor side too, though...
But I get why people like those tend to consider such, since they are disagreed on so much due to their quite strong opinions, eventually they will think all those people are from opposing side.
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Yes, I have seen some too, but it's not comparable in terms of numbers. Sure, you might see one person saying bring dead hard back or something, but 1 person is not much here.
And not sure if that second phrase is directed at me, but I'm disagreed much, I mean, my posts show otherwise. There's not many people disagreeing that solo q is bad.
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Oh really? I wish you can show me actual numbers of all the posts sorted out for killer/survivor complaint, that'd be interesting.
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You don't have to, you just have to be here everyday and see with your own eyeballs.
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Uh, that's just... being delusional or confirmation bias, because my eyes didn't see much difference between two.
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Talk about being delusional. Right.
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