Killer toxicity is through the roof - Why are you not fixing the problems?
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Toxicity comes with toxic intenstions. Just camping, tunneling, slugging or builds alone aren't toxic. That AND hitting ppl on the hook, nodding, etc. would be toxic. But without, these are just needed strats / clusterfixes to bad game game balance in higher MMR. I see no difference in survs tunneling gens and killer tunnel survs. MMR did this, it's just both sides playing their objectives as sweaty as possible. Also it's a result of survs acting toxic when they win after killers actually played fair. I'm looking at you, tbagging survs in the exit gates.
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Camping, slugging and tunnelling when not necessary is toxic.
I’ve witnessed camping and tunnelling from the beginning of the game, no attempt at pressuring or participating in proper game-play. Straight denial of game-play.
How is killers being toxic a result of Survivors being toxic? A player is toxic because THEY are CHOOSING to be toxic. Being face-camped on hook is more toxic than smacking or tbagging will ever be because it outright denies the player a chance at the game again. You are disengaging from all possible factors of the match, just to eliminate a player even at the beginning of the match.
Tunnelling or slugging/camping when it is necessary to secure in end game is a different matter to early game.
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Something dosnt add up
How long do it take to die on a hook ??
If the killer was facecamping, that means that you have 3 players free to do gens.
How long does it take to solo a gen?
Facecamping killers do the survivors a favor, use that advantage.
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I'm sorry, but everything you just listed is not toxicity.
- "My teammates were weaker in chase than me, and unfortunately ended up all being sacrificed, at the expense of him pretty much face-camping to hook" ~ You mentioned that they were not good in chase, perhaps they were trying to build back the pressure they lost from chasing you. Camping is an annoying strategy, but it is not toxic at all.
- "The killer camped on-top of the hatch and when I ran into the room, he slammed it in my face" ~ Killers do this to guarantee the 4K, again, this is not toxic, this another strategy, albeit annoying.
- "Games after game, I am running into killers that are simply boosted. They can't chase, they can't pressure gens. They are aware of it, and resort to camping the hook of whoever the poor soul is that got caught" ~ Okay and? That is not an issue with the players, that is an issue with the game. Players should be lead down the pathway towards success, or at least what you perceive as successful, yet you fault the killers for playing this way.
Would it be toxic for me to sit here and do generators, or even complete a generator right in front of the killer's face? I mean think about it, we are doing our objective. How is it any different from the killer doing their objective? I get that camping and tunneling can be unfun to deal with, especially in SoloQ, but you cant expect killers not play efficiently when most survivors are also going to play efficiently, it would be silly to assume otherwise. We are not living in 2016-2017 when the community followed a fictional rulebook of dos and don'ts.
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120 seconds it takes for a survivor to die, 90 seconds for a generator to pop.
but realistically, 3 survivors are not likely to all be sat on separate generators without a care in the world to rescue or try to attempt a rescue on the survivor.
it’s only a 30 second difference, and that’s not accounting travel time to the hook, and how long it takes to rescue the survivor.
again, most of the time that these players are camping from the beginning, they have gen reduction perks that work when they HOOK. Increasing the time that it takes to finish a gen. no games plays purely from the base.
Also, you hugely missed my point because on average, I’ve been escaping more as the killers are hugely boosted and just don’t compare. I ran a blight last game like a puppy on a singular loop.
but my experience doesn’t take away from the fact that killers ARE boosted and having to resort to being scummy and toxic to “stay” in the game.
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You missed my point.
it is toxic because it is not being done when it’s necessary, it is being done because these killers are boosted and can’t compete otherwise - with BHVR giving these killers even more crutches to execute these behaviours.
players are no longer trying to even learn the powers of the killer because they are still effective as M1 killers when they camp/tunnel from the nerfs survivors received in chase.
I shouldn’t be running into nurse or blight players that are playing them without using their powers at all because it works on their matches prior. Or when they do use it they go flying past me because they SUCK at that killer!!
taking advantage and being excessive when not needed or necessary is toxic, and you’re not going to change my mind tbh
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So people playing to win, even if what they are doing is unnecessary, is toxic?
I don't think you understand how silly that sounds. People can play how they want, bring anything they want, because it is literally just a game, and you are quite literally judging the contents of one's character based on their actions within a game, it's an awful things to do.
^ This is an old post I made, but I feel as if it still holds relevancy to something like this.
Also, if you do not like the state of the game, if you are tired of facing people that camp and tunnel, you are better playing something else. Recently, I have been playing other games (such as Warframe) to try and prevent burnout but also because cheaters have become too much of an issue atm for me to play the game, I would recommend taking a break from DbD every now and then to avoid frustration similar to I have, doing the same thing over and over knowing that it will cause frustration is not healthy to do.
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I think it’s a question of degrees though. Getting mad at an opponent in a game isn’t necessarily a sign of immaturity any more than getting mad at someone who holds up a line, or traffic. None of it matters (at least not usually). Getting furious would be a bit much, but just mad or annoyed - why not?
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Yes, being excessive and unnecessary is a player simply being toxic.
in the same vein, that I would call chain stunning a killer is toxic because it is excessive and unnecessary and doesn’t actually attribute much to the situation or it’s outcome.
Face-Camping in itself is toxic, but especially at the start of the game as it doesn’t change the fact that the survivor is hooked, nor that to rescue the survivor, another will potentially have to trade their hook or just their health-state - the same way if you had proxied in the very least would’ve done. It is just excessive and unnecessary thus toxic.
Tunnelling through other survivors, who are either trying to body block or even taking hits is also excessive and toxic, because you are going out of your way to get that one specific survivor even if you have an injured one within your reach. It’s toxic.
Toxicity isn’t about winning or losing, you can be losing and STILL be toxic to the other party. I don’t care if the killer (or survivor) is losing or at a disadvantage for what they are doing, it is STILL toxic.
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I think you missed my point.
It is not toxic at all yet you are grasping at straws for an excuse to call things toxic. There is a lot of nuance within a match of DbD, we can go on and on about "taking advantage and being excessive when not needed or necessary".
The killer only got 1 hook and first 3 generators are done, were that many generators needed to be done? It does not matter all, because it's just a game, but I'm guessing you never considered the "unnecessary" or "excessive" nature of such, because it does not come at your expense, but whenever it does come at your expense it suddenly becomes toxic. Notice how things do not line up, how they start to not make sense. Because again, there is a lot of nuance in a DbD match, where are we to judge what is necessary and what isn't.
Killer 4Ks at 5 generators remaining, well what if they had an Archive to kill survivors? Again, nuance, nuance, and more nuance. There are so many factors going on behind the scenes that occur without your knowledge, yet you never bother to even strike a thought about it. Challenges, Archives, personal goals, etc; it's almost like they don't exist to you, but they are there, and very much present at that.
Assuming the nature of someone based off of the event occurring with a match is a silly thing to do, especially when there is too much nuance, especially when there are factors beyond your knowledge and out of your control, especially when it's just a game, especially when you can just as easily get into another match and completely forget what happened in less than a minute.
But frankly at this point saying all of this is like arguing to a brick wall. You wont listen, you wont care, you made that evident from the start.
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Harassment and community toxicity was a huger issue back when the game started in comparison to now. DbD's community was smaller, but as a result you could basically be kicked out of the community for not following the rules at the time, it was made even worse when DbD on PC started to develop blacklist programs and such to prevent people from finding matches with people, since dedicated servers did not exist at the time. I had friends in the early days that struggled to find lobbies because of blacklist programs combined with the matchmaking not really being that good at the time, basically making the game unplayable.
Modern DbD is just a former shell of what it was, BHVR removed those resources or found ways to make them not work, so no one could enforce the rules anymore. The community just became more verbally abusive as a result of this, which as a result made the issues within the community a lot more apparent. Another thing is because it was older DbD, you have the community traditions and ideals passed onto new players over the years, which just furthers the issues and divide within the community. While not pleasant, I would argue that it's at least playable, which is a hell of a lot better than it use to be.
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It's not a nuance, nor grasping at straws. Toxicity is defined by behaviour. If you are being excessive, with anything, for no reason - something that doesn't change the outcome, other than to worsen the experience of others, then that's toxic. Majority of these behaviours attribute to that. It's only people like yourself, that try to play with 'what could be toxic??' and make it a discussion about what ifs, or whatever.
I stated what I consider toxic, i stated that I have issue with it and I'm not planning on changing my mind.
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Toxicity was worser? People are being doxxed, swatted and etc, and it's gone out of control. Lol
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"It is toxic because it is not being done when it's necessary."
Who are you to determine what the killer does is necessary or not? Sorry, you don't get to dictate how others play the game just because you consider yourself the arbitrator of the "rules". Tunnelling out a player from the start is a very effective strategy especially if the killer finds themselves matched against more experienced survivors - if he plays by your rulebook then he's lost from the beginning.
You do you, but you have no right to tell others how to play the game. Get over yourself.
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You don't close hatch when you find it because a LOT of survivors in that situation are camping exit gates.
You don't get a free escape because you are last man.
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Tbh the weaker waiting for you to close the hatch ensures you won’t escape via gate
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You never now what caliber of survs you get at the start, most of the time. So especially tunneling 1 early out is the best strat a killer can do. It's like doing the middle gen first against most killers. If a killer starts to camp/tunnel/slugg too late, they get nothin than a 2K. The gen number ingame says nothing. Even it's says still "5", 3 gens could be almost done.
Also tunneling/camping/slugging can backfire very hard, you need to know WHEN to do it.
Finding the weak link in the team is the key. And if they don't have any, good luck!
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Or what? Lol
there is clearly a distinction of what is necessary and what isn’t.
face-camping someone from the minute the match starts when no gens pop, and no survivors are around the hook to justify a face-camp is unnecessary and toxic.
where did I say how others should play? I’m not forcing anyone to play in anyway, but I will certainly complain and advocate against unnecessary toxicity! x)
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Again, I am saying face camping when the match starts, or tunnelling to the point that you are running past body blocking survivors - or worse yet, hitting them and still continuing the tunnel.
I don’t think that’s necessary, and find it toxic.
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I get that and I should’ve explained a bit more, that when I entered the room, he didn’t close it, it was only when I got up to his face that he slammed it.
I hovered in the room for a bit to see what he was gonna do, but he wasn’t doing anything until I got face to face, when he slammed it
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"The killer camped on-top of the hatch and when I ran into the room, he slammed it in my face. Why? Just slam it when you find it?"
I don't run to the hatch, I listen to the terror radius first (Unless is a stealth killers then ggs lol) stay still for a moment to see if the killer is moving around. If the killer is not moving then just go do a gen, which is the third option you have. Either run to the hatch, get chased by the killer and die. do a gen, which will force the killer to close the hatch. Or the last option, beg for mercy by offering the killer whatever items you have, lol.
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If you define tunneling and camping at certian situations as toxic then you're delusional (unless ofc the killer facecamps you on first hook) and Survivors do the same if not worse so don't pretend like this is a one sided issue.
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I think in general is harder for killer to express toxicity in a game given their tools, than it is for survivors. It's possible, sure, but to go as far to say that the killer's collective hive mind's toxicity is "through the roof" is a bit much.
Most of the toxicity in both sides is actually, typically shown in the end game chat. Easily avoided.
However you seem to consider a lot of things to be toxic or scummy, when they are actually not.
Sure, camping, tunneling and hatch camping aren't exactly classy, but they are all legitimate strategies to a varying degree of success.
BTW, you might not know this, but hatch camping serves to prevent the survivors from escaping the match through the gates, so as to ensure a 4k. Why would the killer want that is anybody's guess, but it's certainly not toxic.
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"How is killers being toxic a result of Survivors being toxic?"
Simple. Survivors go in to form a bully squad, they dont do gens and bully the killer. The killer attempts to facecamp one of the bully members. Bullies click and eventually get away. And then mock you in post game chat. Next game the killer takes out that toxic anger and frustration on innocent survivors, especially if one is playing the same character from the previous match.
From my games, survivors are more toxic. And yes I do play survivor too, I have seen killers who face camp at first hook at 5 gens and do nothing (Looking at you Huntress), only to pop off a NOED play. Honestly, I dont know if I count that as toxic... its a strategy, an unpleasant one, but it is one. In that particular game I did smell a NOED and I cleansed totems, but I stopped to pop a nearby gen. Suddenly all gens popped and I was left with 2 more totems I didnt cleanse. Before I did, it was NOED. And the Huntress got a 2k. Me and the first person she camped. It sucks, but eh. Im usually more confused by the killer if the camp and hit me. More like "What did I do to you?", because I see killers toxicity being more reactive than proactive. Unlike survivors.
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I recently had a game where it could "looked like tunneling but wasn't". It was just me having the bad luck to keep running into the killer. Even after he noticed and left me slugged so I could be picked up, once I was up I ran right into him again. We had a laugh about it in endgame chat.
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Okay the same way that I can start my day, not being toxic and run into a killer from the first game, being toxic?
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Ok, that's messed up. I always close if I see the last survivor because that's all the information I need.
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Nothing scummy about tunneling, esoecially after unbreakable becoming basekit and before too. Tunneling is a strat with a lot of counterplay, which is bad for the killer if the tunneled survivor is good at chases and other teammates do gens (if they dont do this is a problem with survs, not the killer). Also, survs should bring kindred. Problem solved, nothing toxic about tunneling
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Once more, in case it might sink in, this is just *your opinion* of what is necessary or not - you assume that everyone agrees with you and that's clearly not the case, judging by the responses to this thread.
So okay, you can delude yourself that you're right and everybody who disagrees with you is wrong or you can accept that you're not the sole arbitrator of what is necessary or not and therefore what is toxic or not (by your personal definition). Entirely up to you.
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No player, killer or survivor, should have to bring any perk into the game. Bad take.
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It is my opinion, just like you will have your opinion, and another user will have theirs. You say about agreeing but I've also had people that commented in the thread not disagree with me, or like my post because they agree with me. Maybe you should take your high ground and realise that the world is constructed of multiple opinions, that could potentially differ from yours and that it is okay for the world to be that way.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
Every multiplayer game has to have a meta perk, it is natural, kindred fits perfectly as a meta perk. Why strong perks even exist if the devs just make them basekit? Some perks should be stronger and picked more, others less, is natural.
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Most killers should be struggling though. We can fix MMR for survivor, because good survivors don't deserve to get placed with bad teammates constantly. But with killer, you're just going against people on your level. Unfortunately, killers can't beat survivors who are on their level, except at low MMR where survivors don't even do gens. You can be flawless in chase as killer, but because the survivors were efficient on gens and ran to strong loops that you can't mindgame, you get 3 hooks and everyone's out. I think this whole "boosted killer" talk I've been hearing recently is blown way out of proportion. The only killers getting boosted are the ones who get bad survivors, because then they can get away with playing Freddy with Pop and Ruin. You know, meme stuff like that, because they don't get punished at all.
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Just because something is meta, doesn't mean that someone should HAVE to bring it.
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If you have perks that are solutions to your problems and then don't use them then that's on you and you shouldn't complain. Survivors have much more flexibility in what they can bring now so it is very easy to free up a perk slot to counter tunneling or camping if they are so common.
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I am stating that no side should have 'MUST RUN' perks. A playstyle that demands a perk to counter, when you won't know if you are going to deal with it or not, shouldn't be a thing, and that's for either side.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
You wouldnt understand that as a survivor main. But when a toxic bully swf gets in your head, you dont think rationally and usually the next squad takes the heat for your sweat. It is what it is.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Oh don´t worry. Once people start to play "normal" again. The mmr will correct itself. It might just take some time. But you´ll see killers struggle again.
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So basically killer face camped every hook but you still couldn't finish your gens and get a 2 man out? Sounds interesting
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No, they're already struggling. When I play Hag, tell me why I can't even get a down. It's not for lack of skill, because I know that I know how to play that character. It's got nothing to do with perks or maps. It's just that the survivors know how to play against her, so whoever's playing her automatically loses. Last match I played with her 1, maybe 3, hooks all match. Ghost Face, Freddy, and Pig you can just drop pallets against. Wraith and Pinhead, I don't even want to talk about it. You can't really do much without Nurse or Blight.
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Honestly, just put down the game. Its trash. Until core mechanics change so that camping hooks isnt even possible this game will eventually bomb. The only reason its stayed alive is due to lack of competition and constant dlc churning out.
People didnt quit the game cuz of the meta perks etc.
Killers quit because of gens flying, survivors (all the ones i know) including myself, quit because of getting (or watching others getting) face camped and/or tunneled out the start of over half of every game.
Ive said it plenty of times, i dont give af about arguing whats a legit strategy or not, my argument is it isnt healthy for the game and it makes people give up on playing cuz its boring.
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I think a lot of killers are made salty by BMing survivors. Every single game has at least 1 who BMs all match and then they'll sit at the exit gates tbagging until there is 1 second left. Every. Single. Game.
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Camping and tunneling is so complained about that most of the time, it never actually occurred.
I've seen people screaming tunneling just because they got into a chase once. And camping because all the gens are done and the killer has no where to go. Or when they hook someone and survivors swarm the hook like lemmings and expect the killer to just leave so they can unhook in peace.
Same people who idle and teabag at gates, because toxicity can only be given not received.
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Killers are not being toxic.
You just think camping and tunneling are toxic. They aren't.
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It literally doesn't matter, if someone is being toxic to you and you decide to bully someone who had nothing to do with it, then you're a child and weak-minded. Know when to take a break or know to not force out anger on people that weren't involved in upsetting you.
Despite the times that I get frustrated in games, I am never going to take it out on a random stranger.
We were on RPD, with the killer running Starstruck whilst also playing with teammates that were far too altruistic for a save. We had two gens (I think? It's been a few days now and don't remember the game exactly).
That is not true, neither you or me can prove that statistically, so don't make that claim. Also, if a random stranger is toxic to you, take it out on them or grow up. Don't be toxic to others that had nothing to do with the situation.
Who said they aren't?
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The developers said they aren't. Stop trying to villainize NORMAL killer gameplay.
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Yes I absolutely can claim my experiences as a killer. You telling me that that doesn't happen absolutely doesn't change the actual fact that it happens to me every single game at high mmr. There is ALWAYs a clicky or tbagger.
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I feel like whenever this point is brought up, it's referring largely to high mmr as if the vast majority of the player base is at high mmr. In lower mmr ranges, the killer absolutely can get 12 hooks in a game.
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Which ultimately results in less people playing Hag (already seen people cherrish that) and more people playing Nurse and Blight.
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It's not normal. :P
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