Counter Offer: Last stand and Basekit Unbreakable

Seraphor

I've made several comments about how I think these proposed changes are godawful, but simply complaining doesn't get you anywhere, so I thought of an alternative or middle ground I'd be happy with.

Last Standing: When one survivor remains in the trial, you have the ability to Kill them by your own hand. Essentially a basekit Cypress Mori offering. The same changes to the Mori offerings go through, where the offerings simply award you BP scores if you kill the last survivor, and even Rancor. Devour Hope's 5 stack effect now enables you to kill one survivor by your own hand.

This is overall more of a nerf to killers, but it still reduces the toxicity of Mori's, and it doesn't remove player agency from killers and doesn't come with a system that requires basekit Unbreakable to function.

Basekit Unbreakable: When all survivors in the trial are downed or hooked, survivors in the dying state have the ability to pick themselves up. Once one survivor has picked themselves up from the dying state, the effect is disabled for the other survivors.

This allows one survivor to get up at a time, and potentially recover from an otherwise hopeless slugging situation. If that one survivor is downed again, then the effect activates again and one of the other survivors can get back up. This prohibits the "4 slugs at 5 gens" tactic, and if the killer attempts to slug for the 4K, then when he finds and downs the last survivor the one he slugged can get themselves back up again. This does everything that survivors are saying this new system fixes, without making general slugging through the natural course of the game a prohibitive tactic, and isn't so extreme as to require the rework of all perks that interact with the dying state. It still allows slugging to be employed as a method of applying pressure, with a safeguard to protect against obnoxious use of it.

To make it a bit clearer how this would work:

Last Standing: When no survivors are 'standing' (not in the hooked or dying state), the Last Standing mechanic activates, with an audible indicator for all players. A survivor who has fully recovered can pick themselves up without the use of any perks. The Last Standing effect is disabled when a survivor becomes 'standing' again.

If there is only one survivor in the Dying state when the Last Standing phase activates (only one survivor left in the trial or the others are on hooks) the killer will have the option to Kill that survivor by their own hand without the use of perks.

vladspellbinder

I want the "Mori the last person" as an option for my games not something that is forced on me so I like your idea change. However I'd say rework the Moris to still let you kill more and more Survivors: turn Cypress into what Ivory does now, Ivory allows for two, and finally Ebony gives you three. So you would be able to kill two, three, and then all four Survivors in order counting the base-kit one Mori with all of them being optional. Though if you didn't take the option after having burned an offering you are of course losing out on that offering.

Your idea for the "Everyone can get up off the ground without help" is also a good fix, addressing the main problem Killer players have with the original idea while also addressing the part the change was for in the first place: excess four person slugging.

So good ideas over all. Shame the devs barely ever listen to feedback in a timely manner.

Seraphor

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202438#Comment_3202438

I'm sure they listen, unfortunately it's like looking for a needle in a haystack, any good ideas get drowned out by the screaming masses.

Seraphor

Can't bump this up enough.

Even as a fair-weather killer main, I consider this a form of basekit Unbreakable I would be more than happy with, even outside of the context of these proposed PTB changes.

Seraphor

Added a more succinct explanation at the bottom to better explain my suggestion.

This is far simpler and more elegant than the mechanics proposed in the dev update, without any timers to worry about balancing, and doesn't have any of the downsides. Survivors still get a slugging counter, killers still get an extra Mori opportunity in any viable game, but neither of them are game breaking changes.