Can I just point out how bad the proposed new mori offerings are?
It's a bit overshadowed by everything else wrong with the announcement, but I feel it still needs to be said.
Moris are now turning into personal bloodpoint offerings - you get 8k/12k/20k bloodpoints for getting 2/3/4 kills and a finisher mori.
To begin with, nobody needed more personal bloodpoint offerings, period. All but the strongest BP offerings are oversaturated and unwanted. More importantly, these are still worse than survivor puddings in all but the worst of games, and in a failed game with a sub-20k score, you're not getting the mori bonus anyway because you almost certainly lost (and survivor puddings are both cheaper and lower rarity.) It's only better than a survivor pudding if you facecamped or speedran the game as Starstruck Nurse, and do we honestly want to encourage that?
The major issue here is that you can effectively win the game and get three kills, but you'll still lose out on the mori reward if the last survivor gets hatch. Which is effectively random unless you slug for the 4k, which is gameplay survivors expressly hate - and it's also nerfed in this upcoming patch, which just means that killers are going to play drawn out slug games where they alternate tagging the final two survivors for 10 minutes in an attempt to get their crappy 20k bloodpoints. And those games are going to be even worse than before, because survivors have no incentive to pick each other up with infinite Unbreakable and the downed player is not a lure.
This is bad design. Please do not do this. The reward needs to be much better for these things to have a niche at all, but even then, you're encouraging rampant slugging unless the hatch stops being an instant lose condition. I would honestly prefer moris to be left as they are so I don't lose the ability to kill several people in one match.
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What if it was 5,000 bonus bloodpoints per survivor sacrificed/killed but each offering caps the number of maximum kills. Yellow caps at two. Green, three. Red, four. A little better than the all or nothing it currently is.
That or reduce the rarity from iridescent.
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My guy, You've made 10 long winded posts about this already. We get it, you're not happy. Let it go to the PTB first before you start freaking out.
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Buddy, long-winded is my modus operandi. I take that as a compliment.
PTB is well and good, but there are some things you don't need to test to know if they're good or bad. Half of my complaints are that they're making moris less fun to use by restricting them, which has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with interactability, and the other half is that it doesn't take PTB to realize infinite Unbreakable is incredibly abusable and that killers have no realistic way to counter this. If they announced next patch that survivors now only take two hooks to die instead of three, would you say we should wait to test it out before we complain? No, because you already know what's going to happen.
I don't slug often, and when I do, it's an act of generosity (I don't want to hook you again so soon, but I do want pressure, so I'll make a teammate come and pick you up.) However, there are numerous circumstances I've been forced to mass slug due to survivor tactics. Again, I do not need to go on the PTB to realize that every survivor being able to pick themselves up in 22 seconds would completely screw me over in nearly every scenario this has happened. It also doesn't take PTB to realize that when a strat has no counters, people will start to abuse it.
The complaints are good. They're letting BHVR know the community doesn't like the direction they're moving in and that they should think about what they're doing. If we didn't complain, why would they change anything?
Something like this sounds pretty reasonable, though I'd rather the reward be higher (because it's still pretty bad compared to pudding in addition to being rarer and harder to use.) The main thing it needs to lose is that finisher mori requirement. All related bad behavior is going to stem from hatch completely cockblocking the offering.
I think they need to keep ebony moris iridescent because there's an achievement that requires you to play an iri offering, and moris are the only ones left out of the original crop.
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Yep. It is bad design. The offering system is used badly. Disappointing to see they haven't realised that. It should not be used for bp boosts at all. It's supposed to be for things that change the trial. Because why does everyone need to see that people are bringing personal bp offerings at the start?
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Oh, they're completely awful. It reads like a First Draft by somebody who had 20 seconds to come up with literally anything, with zero thought put into it.
The whole thing is just a Dog And Pony Show to distract from yet another base-kit survivor perk. And RIIIIIIGHT as they said the 60/40 ratio was where they wanted things to be. What a shock, the left hand doesn't know (or care) what the right is doing.
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That's good and all, but when 3 people are lying on the ground for 4 minutes; That's not engaging gameplay. You're also assuming there wont be any changes before it goes live. Chill, let it go to the PTB. Break it, then im sure if its that outlandish it will be changed. If not, queue survivor.
Personally, I think the unbreakable mechanic (being able to get yourself up in 22s) will get changed to happen once per trial. How it is now.
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Is it weird that i don't think they were actually trying to megabuff survivors? The impression I'm getting is that when they asked themselves what they should do with moris, they got fixated on this idea that moris should be an ending cinematic and went nuts trying to create a DBD where that works, which also happened to involve gutting mori and self-pickup perks because they realized pretty early on that having everyone on the ground as a win condition is really exploitable. But they're not yet at the stage where they realize that infinite self-pickups are also really exploitable.
Looks to me like they just kept compounding onto this honestly pretty mediocre idea and it mutated into a complete monster.
I have always campaigned for them to fix that. However, I maintain that there are better ways to solve this than infinite unbreakable, holy nuggets that's crazy. That's like fixing tunneling by stunning the killer for 30s if they hit someone off hook. The solution's worse than the problem. The solution I always proposed was to have them end the game if there were no perks in play that could get anyone off the floor, or to let survivors choose to die if they've been bled out for half their timer/a certain amount of time when every other player is also incapacitated.
Also, while I've had a few bleedout griefer killers, they're really not very common and I rate it a pretty minor concern in DBD's smorgasbord of major issues compared to tunneling, disconnecting, basement Bubba, and solo queue being horrible.
I am asking for them to make changes before it goes live. That is why I am complaining. And why does everyone assume that just because someone is talking about [side] issues, they must not play [other side]?
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I never mentioned anything about sides. People were losing their minds crying end of the world before the last update hit. Did the world end? No, people adapted to the changes. Same as they will adapt to this.
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Frankly, I look forward to slug-tagging to make use of the new Mori.
Not because I think it's well implemented, I just know survivors are going to lose their mind about constantly being slugged when it's the last two alive and we know BHVR is going to have to change this.
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You just told me to play survivor instead if I didn't like that BHVR's slated changes are going to wreck things for killers.
Last update primarily consisted of things I liked or was neutral about, with a few issues of varying importance that are still unresolved (and I have been talking about ever since they dropped.) This update is the first time I hate every single thing they've announced.
Mostly I think you are very wrong about the idea that we have to wait for PTB before we're allowed to say that water is wet.
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On the plus sides, they already expressed that they do not intend this to be pushed out next patch
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I just think its pertinent to actually try the proposed changes rather than clutching your pearls saying its going to destroy the game. I also think you're wrong.
I don't believe that killers should have inherent pressure from getting one down and ambiguity of what the killer is actually doing. This doesn't effect SWF, the ambiguity only effects solo q.
In the same breath, 45s is the same time it would take to get someone 1 tap or use unbreakable as is. Stacking perks that reduce that time is obviously going to be ridiculous. Hence the testing. It's not going live anytime soon. It's going to the PTB to be tested. If its insane, it will be changed.
I'm personally excited for a shake up.
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Not enough, we needs thousands.
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20k bp for an offering is going to be very rare. If there any slugging challenges in those rifts, those challenges will be near impossible. Its hard enough to slug 4 survivors with 0 unbreakables, let alone 4 base-kit unbreakable every match. your going to be heavily punished for trying to slug. those offerings are at best 8k bp and at worst, 0 bp.
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Garbage offerings became garbage offerings with a different effect. Just that.
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The thing that most bother me is the nerf to devour hope, i know its not definitive yet.. but was really necessary to even announce that change? In how many games we get 5 tokens of devour hope?
Very few and it may not sound as a big nerf but the time it takes to pick up and hook someone is a lot compared to just hold M1 and mori. It potentially gives more time to break the totem before using the 5 tokens and lets not forget that the hook can also be sabotaged.
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This offering is stupid.
Just make it be +5000 points per person you kill or whatever.
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Never said it was going to destroy the game. I said it was going to give SWF carte blanche to go ham with never-hook strats, and that there's an element of fun human interactivity that's lost by relegating moris to an endgame cinematic and preventing survivors from taking part in them or letting killers choose amusing spots to mori in.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the whole. While I can continue this argument, the purpose of this thread was not to debate Unbreakable but rather point out a specific problem with the mori offerings. Overall - I feel that providing feedback is a good thing, and it would be insane of me to expect positive changes in the game's trajectory if I'm not willing to ask for them or explain why I think they're the right move.
Why do they have to be useless? That's the easy way out, and frankly I think it's annoying that killers don't have any worthwhile offerings outside map offerings. If moris actually mori-ing people is illegal now, why can't they do something like... Ivory mori blocks exit gates for 5s when opened? Ebony mori prevents hatch from opening? They can do better than this.
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Positive is subjective friend. Lets agree to disagree and see what happens in the patch. Good luck in your games :D
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"Why do they have to be useless?"
I could imagine a hundred better offerings. How about: press Z on a generator once per game. This generator cannot be completed until one generator is left. If it is completed before that time it will reset to zero and be blocked until one generator needs to be completed.
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They should still be used as things that let you mori. Nobody complains about moris these days, so why change it? And what's worse, if the specific text on the mori offerings isn't fulfilled, you lose out on bloodpoints. If you put up an ebony mori and only got 2 kills, well you just wasted an ultra-rare offering and got no bp in return. Or if you got a 4k but only put up the cypress mori, so you only get credit for 2 kills. This is stuff nobody wanted.
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I'd much rather they just remove them so they stop appearing in my bloodwebs.
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Basekit unbreakable?
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Yeah. I don't want to buy something that is literally worth less than it costs every level.
I hope you are listening BHVR. Your idea to change the mori offerings isn't good. I can get 20k from bringing a basic yellow xp offering easily, I should not have to jump through hoops to get it from an iridescent offering.
Just cash them into refunded blood, and scrap them from the bloodwebs completely.
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These new moris are ass
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If I understand correctly, yes. Imma just keep slapping them to the ground until I find both of them so I can get my finishers.
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Numbers aside, I do think the perks would be more fun if they were something other than just bloodpoint bonuses and instead had some unique mechanical effect that other offerings don’t.
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Oh, that way. Yes, indeed.
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NE DbD has unique moris bound to their ultra rare skins.
Trickster's has him throw a knife to your head and ram it in with his bat.
Wraith breaks the survivors neck and Spirit sorta looks at you before shoving her katana in.
If the mori offerings caused different finisher moris i'd be fine with them being just crappier Salty Puddings.
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I would remove them tbh. And reward players with BP for each mori they own.
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I mean i wouldnt say all survivors
I dont get the hate around being slugged anyway, i mean its preferable to being hooked cuz u dont die as quick, you can recover to 90% allowing for a quick heal or just move around the map instead of being stuck in one place waiting to die
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Or just you know, not change them at all?
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