im starting to understand why everyone camps and tunnels

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  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,424
    edited September 2022
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    I still do the things I do in SWF in solo as well. Meaning that if I know someone is on death hook I will take the aggro instead. I know I am not the only one who does this. So my problem with people thinking that every one of those types of moves means "SWF" is incorrect. Because unless they have hardcore proof, its really simply speculation and often times because they are doing bad as killer so they would rather blame it on speculation.

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386
    edited September 2022
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    I literally 4K most of my matches since 6.1.0. I barely face SWF and my losses are on me or a busted map. Skill issue.

  • WipeIncGamingYT
    WipeIncGamingYT Member Posts: 171
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    Nice gameplay worked out in the beginning, 2016. Then survivor learned to loop around palettes and how to bully killers. Then it started with toxicity.

  • Relix_Fichter
    Relix_Fichter Member Posts: 17
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    Most killers I go against neither camp nor tunnel and they get 2k+ easily. Even the "literally unplayable" ones like Pig and Trapper. So I suspect that many bad / average players end up being considered highly skilled by the game's internal systems due to their ability to stomp uncoordinated solos and are made to face "equal" opponents in the form of very organized and efficient SWFs. Though I still wonder how common those truly are and if most cases aren't just killers finally being placed in situations where they have to work a little for the 4k after going through tens of baby / casual survivors like a knife through hot butter.

  • Tubby_Squirrel
    Tubby_Squirrel Member Posts: 244
    edited September 2022
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    I don't camp or tunnel because it will not help me get better at the game. Now sometimes if they drag their feet with a rescue I may camp out the last 5 sec of a hook state, or if the healthy unhooker hides while the unhooked runs to a dead zone... ima punish that bad play with a tunnel.

    But I will not face camp a kill at the end game or anything like that because if I didn't have the skill to actually get a kill then I should not falsely tell the system I did. See, MMR can't work if you lie to it. By forcing kills with these tactics MMR thinks you were on par with these survivors, it assumes you were on even footing so it puts you against even better survivors. Uh-Oh! You could only beat the last team with hard camping and tunneling and now this team is even better and you catch catch anyone! Not MMR's fault, YOUR fault. YOU told MMR 'Hey look, I got 3 kills!'

    Like when Starcraft players discovered they could win games by spawning 6 zegling as fast as possible and sending them to the opponent at the start of the match (Known as a 'Zergling Rush') they rocketed up the leader board until they hit a sheer wall... players who knew how to deal with this tactic and now they're playing against players far above their skill level with no other skills to fall back on.

    The same thing happens in fighting games. You pick a character with an easy to use cheese move and beat the first 5 or 6 levels... then as the CPU difficulty increases or as your rank increases if playing online... you get players (or higher level CPUs) and now spamming that 1 move doesn't work anymore. They know just how to dodge or block it, then punish the end-lag with a combo and you have no IDEA what to do.

  • Tubby_Squirrel
    Tubby_Squirrel Member Posts: 244
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    This is false and you know it. People over blow the advantage of SWF, it doesn't automatically make you loop better or anything like that...


    But knowing who the killer is pressuring at any given time, being able to call out if the killer chases you past a lit totem, where they're headed after hooking you, four eyes looking for clues to the killers perks, knowing who on the team as We'll Make It and BT... Its a pretty big advantage over 4 solos.

  • WorthlessBeing
    WorthlessBeing Member Posts: 377
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    You know, I've even got reported for being nice, and insulted. There's no winning against toxicity, is there?

  • AverageAshEnjoyer
    AverageAshEnjoyer Member Posts: 427
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    Bold of you to assume MMR even exists lmfao.



    but in all seriousness i think youre just exaggerating it. and thats okay, we all get irritated after a series of bad games

  • WipeIncGamingYT
    WipeIncGamingYT Member Posts: 171
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    That is happening. If you play nice and lose, you get insulted. I have no other solution than to not play killer.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
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    If they’re all running Prove Thyself that is a terrible tactic. There is no strategic reason a 4-man SWF should have 4 PTs. Sounds more like randoms than a coordinated team.

  • CosmicScarab
    CosmicScarab Member Posts: 119
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    As killer you get insulted no matter how you play. I've been insulted for giving hatch or letting someone go, I've been insulted for winning while 12 hooking, I've been insulted for sweating against sweaty genrush builds. it's crazy, no matter what you do as killer you treated like garbage. At this point I just have given up on trying to please survivors and just playing in whatever the most fun or effective way is.

  • jajay119
    jajay119 Member Posts: 881
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    No offence but if you're chasing one person, who is probably the designated 'looper' of the group, for like 2 minutes then that's a you problem. I see so many killers do this - no gen pressure, no attempt to break off and try a different approach. Its like they get blind sighted. I was on Eyrie of Crows and a Wesker was just chasing this one Jake round a rock while I was doing a gen right close by. He must have seen me. Even when the Gen popped he refused to change tact. Its hardly surprising that two other gens popped shortly thereafter. But I feel like he would be a prime example of one of these killers who screams about gens popping and SWFs when the actual reality is he have given up the chase. I'm not implying this is something you do, but there is a possibility, and I see a LOT of killers who do this.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,544
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    A vicious cycle appears...

    And not much can be said but... you do you

  • Fred_krueger
    Fred_krueger Member Posts: 163
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    Because theyre making everything basekit, survivors can bring builds to bust out gens ASAP, and its way too fast.

  • CosmicScarab
    CosmicScarab Member Posts: 119
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    You don't need to be in a chase for two mins for gens to pop. With things like hyperfocus or BNP toolboxes you can get gens done in absolutely insane speeds. I'm talking like less than 45 seconds, solo. You won't see build like that every game but they are becoming increasingly common and when they do appear you cannot really do anything about it.

  • My_Aespa
    My_Aespa Member Posts: 545
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    There is no way every single game you play is against a SWF, and people in low MMR is SWF too... you can't tell what someone's MMR is anyway. I think you just got outplayed on a few games and decided to rant about it.

  • lemonsway
    lemonsway Member Posts: 1,169
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    You don't need to Camp and tunnel to win. And even if you camp and tunnel you won't win every match. Killers don't win just by their skill. What your skill as a killer and with a certain killer does is give you enough experience and tools to maximize the chances of winning.

    Killers need to understand that survivors making mistakes is exactly why momemtum swings in favor of killers. Downing survivors left and right doesn't mean that the time they have being up isn't being just as well spent as the killers time. Both things happen.

    A survivor that is as competent as possible will loop and waste alot of killers time. It doesn't even have to be a BUSTED Map or BUSTED perks. Just competent pathing and mindgames are enough. A single Mindgame can guarantee a Hit or a Miss.

    This single survivor will give everyone else enough free time to do whatever. Thats why Bloodlust exists as a catchup mechanic. Bloodlust is the game saying ok this has gone for long enough. As a killer if you find yourself reaching bloodlust all the time in a chase then you need to work on something, a different build that allows more chase potential and more time to chase, a different playstyle, maybe just a different killer altogether. But every killer has a way to be played to maximize their efficiency. IT's why some people say Sadako sucks and some do really well with her. It's why some people say Trickster sucks and some people will dominate as Trickster. CoconutRTS is an amazing TRickster, he will hit knifes on you from pretty damn far, i've seen with my own eyes. Seth is an extraordinary Sadako that will shatter your ankles with his mindgames.

    Survivors being efficient will happen on the most fair Map and even without Perks. The issue is the game isn't tailored, Balanced, for a level of play where everything is efficient. So when you do stuff like Perks, items and the RNG of Maps things can get extremely complicated for killers. The only thing you can do is accept the conditions and train yourself to just not give in.

    A few hours ago i had an incredibly hard match as Spirit, a really good killer, in her own Map, Yamaoka Estate. For the life of me i couldn't get a single chase to work. It honestly felt like i was playing against subtle speed cheaters because it was weird how i could never catch them. I lost gen after gen until 1 gen remained, i managed to finally catch the one gigantic problem. HOW? By losing the gens, the survivors were forced into coming in closer. It wasn't a 3 gen, i had 1 middle gen which they eventually completed and 2 other gens spread to both sides of the map.

    So how do i win? well 3 of them decided to do that middle gen, so i just had to keep hitting them, make it hard to complete the gen. I finally catch a survivor, slug them and injure the other 2 cause they're all together in the same trying to do the gen while i'd carry the survivor to a hook so i slugged and injured the 2 before hooking the slug. Forcing the 4th survivor to come, they made a mistake on a midngame and i hit them, and then there's 3 guys trying to save 1 dude.

    3 gigantic mistakes they made. 3 of them were on the same gen, those same 3 all got injured and 1 got hooked, the 4th guy failed the first rescue attempt. I protected the gen and hook cause they were close, i understand if you're gonna call camping on that but thats 1 moment of the game and not all i did. I get another down, slug that guy, intercept another rescue attempt, causing the guy to die, now there's 2 slugs and the 4th guy finishes the gen but he can't do anything else. I slug him and hook the other 2. Then im forced to bleeding the 4th cause i had no hooks nearby anymore, mistake on my part i could probably have carried someone to another hook but at that moment the thought was i freaking deserve these kills so i just hooked them asap lol.

    All this to say that YOU CAN FIGHT BACK and if you still end up with a gigantic L then take it. I was still pissed off at how hard i had to try but believe me i know that's how i'll keep winning. Struggling is necessary. It's not fun, it won't really feel rewarding, but you're gonna have to just endure it and keep struggling. Very soon you'll make better decisions and start preventing struggles. I don't believe in the bullcrap that trying really hard makes things feel better, it doesn't, the stress of having gone through that hardship doesn't make the victory any sweeter. The next struggle could be the match after this one, that's not a sweet thing. You Endure, you struggle and you accept the result of your struggle. When you're comfortable with struggling then you've won cause you know to win.

  • CosmicScarab
    CosmicScarab Member Posts: 119
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    On Steam you can see who is a SWF if they are also on Steam by viewing their friends, and trust me, they are VERY common.

  • Veinslay
    Veinslay Member Posts: 1,959
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    Yet after the next update you would have lost badly cause the guy rushing the gen can just sit there cause his teammate can get up himself

  • My_Aespa
    My_Aespa Member Posts: 545
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    Yeah but not every single game common, and if you see everyone come into the lobby at once, that's a sign to cue into a new lobby.

  • lemonsway
    lemonsway Member Posts: 1,169
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    Them being a SWF doesn't change their ability to play the game. Potato players as a SWF are still potato players and the SWF will be in shambles rather quickly plus these pottato players are most likely not try harders and on comms. However any competent player when put with other competent players gets a huge advantage. So SWF's are only problematic when the least skilled player isn't that bad at all. IF i were part of a SWF of players with the same level of understanding of the game as me then i could see us goingon a decent win streak. I don't mind taking chases, i don't mind trading hooks just to make sure nobody dies. that's the kind of player i find hard to kill...guys who are brave enough regardless of their skill to make it all about the team.

    The notion that people are high MMR is both valid and false. It isn't hard for a killer to reach high MMR while for survivors it is because Surviving isn't up to just a single survivor, it's a team effort. Therefore it's easier for killers to control and grow their MMR than it is for Survivors. Killers get MMR for each kill and theres 4 kills to get whiel Survivors only get MMR for their single escape, their teammates dying or escaping doesn't matter. Honestly i'd like them to change this and manny other things regarding treating survivors as a team and not individuals.

    And while it is easier for killers to grow their MMR this creates the notion that there's manny killers who are high MMR when they aren't and that creates the notion that they always face high MMR survivors, wich they don't.

    Go play SoloQ survivor, it's absolutly dreadfull, i know cause i play it. The amount of times i've seen my teammates do very questionable things is riddiculously high. THe amount of times i see people self caring in a killers face is alarming. SELF CARE ISNT A BAD PERK, well it is worse since it got nerfed, BAD PLAEYS USING SELF CARE BADLY ARE THE PROBLEM.

    Literally SKILL ISSUE.

    I know i'm not high MMR on either Surv or Killer and i don't falsely say i am, the MMR cap is low, anyone can pass the cap. Honestly we need mre Caps, one for new comers, to seperate them from experienced players and then a higher MMR cap to stop people thinking they are facing high mmr SWFs everytime BECAUSE THEYRE NOT.

    Seeing who is friends on steam doesn't mean they are skilled, high MMR players, they could be just competent enough and them together means theres 1 or 2 less random unknow skill level players to make the survivor team weaker.

    Like i said up top, competent enough players are already a struggle and when they are put together then they will be stronger than they are as individual survivors. Even without comms. The reason for it is because they know there's someone with a similar level of understanding of the game to watch their back and make plays that benefit the team.

    I really wish survivors were classified as a team in terms of Emblems, BP and for game Balance reasons. Everyone would benefit. MMR would be more accurate for survivors, allowing killers to realize they aint Top MMR like they think they are...

  • lemonsway
    lemonsway Member Posts: 1,169
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    That update isn't here yet, hasn't been tested yet and just like anything can change even after it's been implemented, tested and launched on live servers.

    And if i lost where's the issue? Can't i accept the loss and just go to another match? Where does this notion that killers should always win or not lose come from!? That's something i've never learned or picked from watching anyone even when i watch the most Competitive oriented people. Sure i do want to win, it's human nature and sure i get frustrated BUT it's literally impossible to win always. One day you'll lose and the later that happens the later you'll learn the lesson. The worse the blow on your Ego. Don't get accustemed to losing because that means you're losing too much but you'll lose and lose until you find your own way to winning.

  • Veinslay
    Veinslay Member Posts: 1,959
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    My point is they're getting rid of a legitimate strategy killers can use to snowball and comeback. They're trying to force a 12 hook playstyle when the game isn't remotely balanced for that. SWF is OP, maps are trash for most killers, and gens are flying faster than ever

  • Gamedozer7
    Gamedozer7 Member Posts: 2,649
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    Just curious what time your play. I'm on NA west and during normal hours I get normal matches but if I play after 10 pm it's a bunch of swf and everyothet match seems to have a ttv in it.

  • Odawg241
    Odawg241 Member Posts: 65
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    I'm a survivor main but going against a high level swf is terrifying to me lol. They really need to focus on making the killer scarier and less of a joke. F13 had its own developer issues, but Jason felt like more of a threat, he got stronger the more you beat up on him

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,695
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    I struggle with killer too and have 3k hours. Still a skill issue? No, it's indicative of how hard killer is. Get off y'all's Nurse/Blight/pink add-ons Sadako high horse and play real killer like Ghost Face, Freddy, Doctor, etc. You'll be amazed how hard it is to get a down.


    Camping and tunneling are necessary to win these matches, and are not at all easy to do. I can just down the first guy and face camp him, and get a 4k? I can just go for the same guy, count to 10 each time, and 4k? Oh what, there's more to it than that? Exactly.

    Survivors will just sit there and pretend that their base BT/Haste and DS and Off The Record "does nothing." That's why they fail, and why they complain. They don't use the anti-tunnel tools but then complain about tunneling. Same with camping. "The killer can JUST camp." But did you use Kinship? Did you use Reassurance? No? Okay then.

    High MMR killers do tunnel/camp, because high MMR killers NEED to tunnel/camp, or else they wouldn't be there. You physically don't have time to chase.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,695
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    The caliber you go against. SWF in 80% of your games is a good tell.

  • AcelynnBen
    AcelynnBen Member Posts: 1,012
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    literally about the same time, and sometimes around 3 or 4 am

  • GrimoireWeiss
    GrimoireWeiss Member Posts: 1,452
    edited September 2022
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    Oh no people have friends what am I going to dooooooo

  • lemonsway
    lemonsway Member Posts: 1,169
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    And they're giving killers an insta win condition too. If theres 2 on hooks, 1 on the ground then the Last Standing mechanic activates, the 4th survivor has to not get caught or it's an automatic game over. You're skipping the rest of the game straight to a FINISH HIM.

    If there's only 3 survivors then it's even easier, if there's only 2 survivors then its even easier. Winning has been made much faster. That's why they need to handle slugging or else everyone would be slugging to reach the Last Standing situation.

  • blue4zion
    blue4zion Member Posts: 2,773
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    Slugging his how I avoided this icky playstyle. Having one on the ground would mean 2 off gens since another must pick up, and I can chase a third. This is going to be dead and I think ill become one of those who Tunnel 2 survivors to get them out asap

  • GooseMan
    GooseMan Member Posts: 104
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    You aren't going to win against an efficient opponent if you don't play efficient yourself. As sad as it is, tunneling is necessary in the current state of the game.

  • lemonsway
    lemonsway Member Posts: 1,169
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    I didn't actaully plan this but since it happened i'll post it. Look at this Survivor Team and tell me you can't win against this sort of players. Again like i've said in my 2 previous posts, i'm not high MMR, i'm not delusional like that, even if the MMR cap is really damn low and reaching it isn't difficult, so even assuming i'm at the MMR Cap that doesn't mean i'm Top MMR. Other people will be higher MMR than me even if i'm at the Cap or above the Cap. Now does that mean i won't face good survivors because of what i think? Nope. Maybe i actually am much better than i give myself credit, who knows...

    Yes i played Spirit so what? It was just as freaking hard as it would have been had i played any other killer AND IT WAS SWAMP Map. And i'm not even a good Spirit. My point here is even if you struggle you have to keep composure and play and make use of what opportunities you have and try to create opportunities for yourself

    Look at my build, no Pain Res, no DMS, no Deadlock (i don't think the requirement of losing 1 gen to block another gen that you're going to lose anyway, is a good concept for a Perk yet somehow Deadlock is popular), no Overcharge, no Pentimento + Plaything cheese strategy. The most valuable Perk here was Sloppy and why? Because they let me injure them all when they wanted to rescue the first guy but i jebaited them, i injured them all first then i hooked the downed guy. They had to Boon up multiple times to keep the heals up or else they'd never heal.

    Them being obviously a SWF meant the aura reading blocking aspect of Fearmonger did nothing. But it kept the Dead Hards at bay, they only used it once that i remember. And it prevented sprint burst from being used.

    They realised i had Discordance after the first chase aswell cause that's where i went. And i only remember kicking 2 gens so i made little use of Call of Brine aswell. It was mostly a hit & run game.

    Not to knock on anyone who feels they can't win games as killer but don't believe that you can't win. You can win and you can do it without cheesy strategies. Won't always happen but when it happens then you'll build confidence and experience to deal with it next time.

    Obviously a counter argument to all of this: BRUH THOSE ARE TRASH SURVIVORS. Which maybe they are, they did make mistakes but i took advantage of them, that's the important part. I didn't fail when it could have failed. I should have killed the Jill cause she had Map she'd see hatch and i had the opportunity to kill her but oh well it's ok that they got 1 escape. i 2 pipped and got above 30k points so you can definetly win vs a swf with all the shenanigans they brought.

    If i wasn't experienced and versed in the game i'd absolutly get demolished, like i've been multiple times, but this time i wasn't. And if i wasn't this time then that means there will be more times i won't be aswell, which means i can keep improving and do my best to turn those situations into situations where i can win BECAUSE it's possible.

    So all in all pretty much a Non Meta Build vs These guys. Look at what they have. Prove thyself, Hyperfocus, Boons, Medkits with Sirynges, BNP, DH, Sprint Burst, Lucky Break, OTR, ADrenaline and they even brought Repressed Alliance so they could block a Gen instead of me, i don't think they ever used it but they still brought it. Oh yeah and the Map ofc. And i'm not even using stupid OP add-ons that Spirit has, i actually have never played with them so idk how good i can be if i use them.

  • AcelynnBen
    AcelynnBen Member Posts: 1,012
    edited September 2022
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    yes please create with D killers and C killers IM SURE EVERYONE IS SO READY TO SEE IT, and honestly spirit is easy even i barely play her and i win with her in most cases, please trying playing against those same guys with sadako or pig with the same build, and consider hiding their names before u get warned.

    don't make an argument with A killer, if made that argument with someone from D or C i would understand but spirit u kinda just killed your own argument

    its like saying, I PLAYED NURSE AGAINST THESE SWEATY SURVIVORS and won and im not even a good nurse, yea it doesn't matter, why do u think she's S+

    but please show me the same gameplay with sadako or any lower tier killer, i will be waiting.

  • lemonsway
    lemonsway Member Posts: 1,169
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    You still don't understand it...But i'll humor you and i'll try to get a Sadako match as close to this as possible.

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,909
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    Unfortunately, more and more people are playing SWF because solo is getting to the point that it's almost unplayable. Can't blame them... I play a lot of SWF games myself now (only Played solo before the buff to killers). You have to play sweaty most of the time if you want to win as survivor. Blame the devs.

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
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  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
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  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
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    As with any other of your threads, skill issues

  • ScottJund
    ScottJund Member Posts: 1,115
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    Still find it so hilarious the arguments about whose MMR is what happen despite no one literally knowing anything about their rating

  • whammigobambam
    whammigobambam Member Posts: 1,201
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    Imagine saying 3+ years ago, " swf is the reason we can't have nice things." and still expecting nice things with no change to swf.

  • Zen_but_not_Zen
    Zen_but_not_Zen Member Posts: 230
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    Why can't BHVR just highlight in lobby if it consists of swf, if you see it's 4 of them, a killer could use a build to make sure the game isn't going to be gen-rushed, prepare for a potentially sweaty game, or even dodge.

    People just switching to this i'm going to play sweaty and camp/tunnel everyone mentality is exactly why solo-q is genuinely miserable at times.

  • Bartlaus
    Bartlaus Member Posts: 1,025
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    Welcome to the sweatless killers club. But if you keep doing this, you're in low MMR, aren't you? I also like to let Survivor escape if they played well and aren't acting like jerks. I always kill toxic people. On average I probably do 2 kills. I play against survivors who know what they're doing, but who can be defeated with a clown. I'm not in the mood for high MMR either. I want to play for fun and live out my memes.

    Btw I'm missing a drawing for your post 😢

  • AcelynnBen
    AcelynnBen Member Posts: 1,012
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    players would dodge a lot, let's be honest people wanna play not get stressed

  • I_CAME
    I_CAME Member Posts: 1,159
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    No one plays against only elite SWFs. Not even the sweatiest streamers who play in comp tournaments. I've seen many of them even ADMIT that the only reason they win so many games is because of how weak "high MMR" competition really is. People saying they play against nothing but SWFs is just a lie. Especially considering how low the MMR ceiling is. I don't know what kind of agenda people are trying to advance when they push something so obviously untrue. I think the leaks revealed that high MMR is more like a top 25% than a top 1-2% that people seem to think it is.

  • Yankus
    Yankus Member Posts: 638
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    While that's definitely true that most people don't play against 4 man's every game you know there are at least a handful that get unlucky enough to go against really sweaty teams every single game due to the RNG nature of match making.

  • AcelynnBen
    AcelynnBen Member Posts: 1,012
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    try playing around 3 or 4 am and prove yourself wrong when u find nothing but SWF on, sure u might get some few duos or trips here and there but 90% its just SWF and mostly on pc

  • MEATLOVER
    MEATLOVER Member Posts: 8
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    as a mostly solo queue player, i do not think SWFs should be punished. ive had my fair share of less than competent teammates.

    just do your best man. they have an advantage, but it's not likely that you get a 4-man gen rushing SWF that often. if your situation is that unfortunate, you could always derank. most importantly, don't let DBD players make you mad. that is how you lose even if you win.

    besides, you can't be sure the players are a SWF. play reasonably to some degree.