No, basekit Kindred is not too strong.
at these remote times we need basekit Kindred for Solo Q, the camping and tunneling is out of the charts... people need some help, ofc this is not fixing tunneling or camping AND NO PERK can do such thing, what some perks used to do was penalizing it GREATLY like DS before nerf by hard punishing it and also was Off the record during PTB penalizing greatly the extreme focus in survivors and then got nerfed and now deactivates if a surv gets hit in the 10 seconds window wich means if said survivor is hit immediately after getting unhook he will barely be able to do anything because off the record is gone (and it shouldnt, but that is another topic)... but Kindred? should be basekit, survivors need information during these times were the game has become harder than ever for solo q, SWF always had it and forever will... this is important so at least survs can make better decisions when they see a face camper and not waste time unnecessarily
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Survivors need more info than just basekit Kindred. Info UI on teammates would give better info than Kindred and not affect any aura perks at all.
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that is harder to do for sure, and SEEING is better than SAYING, u can just rework Kindred and make it do something else OR make the Radius of effect BIGGER if u have it like cover the entire map or something idk... plus i think that may confuse people somehow because even if u say to them u are getting face camped or camped in general that doesnt mean they can make good decisions because they dont know if there is anybody nearby, that would imply much more lines, plus many could use them to troll. so, Kindred Basekit is the safest and BETTER way
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Stop with the basekit nonsense and just bring Kindred!
Every buff for Solos is another free buff for SWFs.
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Camping and tunneling have never been less powerful.
The ability to see survivor auras? No problem.
Seeing the killer's aura? No. There's a reason that even HCS premades still run Kindred.
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4 stack SWF already knows who is gonna safe and where the killer is. So, no, it doesnt buff SWF's. Cause they already have that.
Stop acting like SWF's are so hardcore that the whole Solo Q needs to suffer. They already said that sweaty 4 man SWF's in high MMR are just a low percentage.
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That's why you implement buffs that are only active if you queue solo.
When you are playing in a SWF, those buffs / basekit features simply don't activate.
This way nobody can complain that they get punished just for playing with their friends.
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I feel like if they just did the icon thing, plus maybe aura reading on the killer if they stay within some radius near the hook for a decent while you'd get most of the benefit of basekit Kindred without killing the perk. Maybe this specific aura reading counteracts insidious undetectable.
That said I'd still advocate for basekit Kindred. But it either needs to be a dumbed down version or Kindred needs to be replaced with something else and we just get full Kindred at base.
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And yet - plenty of HCS groups and high MMR SWFs run Kindred.
Why?
Because, especially on indoors maps, the ability to see the killer's aura is insanely powerful.
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I think most people suggesting Kindred as a Soloq buff really mean it as a Soloq buff only. If you queue by yourself, you get Kindred. If you don't you don't.
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So how do you do that exactly? You understand that 2 people in a lobby can be together but the other two are not right? So you're going to have half the team have 0 access to any information that is given for free while the other 2 have information they cannot communicate to each other.
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This would actually be nice. Same for other information who SWF's already have.
When i see good SWFs or high MMR Teams, i actually dont see it much.
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Simple, the 2 solos get basekit Kindred, the 2 SWF players don't get it.
The solos have no need to communicate the info as the other solo has access to the same information.
One of the SWF players can just tell their friend "hey, I'm going to check the hook, you stay on your gen... hey, killer is camping, can you come over so we can get the save together."
Nothing changes for SWF players. Solos just get more information while SWF keeps their communication. Now we add the long awaited "what are they doing-icons" to survivor portraits and we are on a good way.
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Yeah I think most people suggesting this understand that. I fail to see your point. Being in a swf, even just a two man replaces Kindred for the sake of the "who should go for the save" awkwardness. Unless of course both of the people in the swf are on hook. But if the other two have Kindred in that case they should be able to make a simple call of who out of the two of them should go for the save(s). If one is in chase(which should be visually obvious), the other does. If one is injured, the other does. If one is MILES away working on the gen and the other is right by the hook the 2nd person goes. Swf without Kindred functions similarly but without the visual information, and yes is admittedly less useful the less people you have, but if the other 2 have kindred they still get the benefit because Kindred goes both directions. "You goin' for the save?" "Can't, in chase." "Alright I'll go" "Can you go for the save I'm about to finish a gen." "Sure." " I'm miles away, are you closer for the save?" "I am but I'm about to pop a gen, you should have enough time before they reach 2nd how about you go?" "Ok fine".
Which yeah again, 0 access to the information? Kindred shows the Aura of the killer and all other survivors TO all other survivors when you are on hook, and shows it only to you when other people are on hook. Swf would only be robbed of half of Kindred. But having the other half for any soloq people. That said if basekit Kindred were to be COMPLETELY inaccessible either direction for the swf I don't think that would be all that bad really? Smallest swf is a two man. If one is on hook they get aura reading anyway and can relay if either of the randos are going for the save to the other swf person. If both are on hook, and Kindred is in play only for the other two it doesn't matter because again, without kindred on hook you get aura reading anyway and you can't act on it regardless. There's no binary situation in any version of basekit kindred that people actually want.
P.S. Yeah, ditto.
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Go watch the recent HCS! event. I think every single organized team had Kindred+Open Handed, as it's basically wallhacks.
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I've seen people suggest that basekit Kindred should only show the Killer's Aura if they're obviously facecamping/proxy camping. Have been within' some radius of the survivor for longer than 15 seconds or something. I do think if basekit Kindred would come to soloq or just the entire game it really needs to not JUST be Kindred that'd be crazy (Well maybe not TOO crazy). Needs a few nerfs and caveats. Only activates once the survivor is halfway through their first phase or only activates after the survivor has been left on hook for longer than 15 seconds. Only works during the struggle phase. Doesn't work for the killer aura at all. All sorts of things could be done. Not sure what is the best choice but I don't think basekit Kindred as a concept is inherently broken.
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Yeah and while we're at it, why not add Bond on top of that? Survivors already get a second perk base. We don't need survivors running multiple builds at once. If you want the benefit of a perk you should try and run it instead of asking for it to become base kit. That's how it used to work.
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No it does not buff swf.
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Solo Q survivors shouldnt have to run perks to have the same things SWF gets for free.
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My point still stands. SoloQ will never be on the same level as SWFs. Making perks base kit won't change that. It will however allow survivors to basically run multiple builds at once. You know, that was considered cheating not too long ago. When we get to a point where SoloQ has all the perks to help them compete with SWF how do you think that would look like? BT, UB, Kindred, Bond etc. would all need to be base kit. Just stack it with Open Handed and 3 other perks and see what happens. Adding a system for survivors to communicate is one thing but adding basically an infinite amount of perks to the survivor's base kit to try and achieve something impossible? I don't think survivors should be able to run 32 perks (8 each), do you?
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Devs already said it’s a hard no. Quit posting about it already.
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That’s not entirely true. While camping is potentially weaker if survivors bring Reassurance, killers now also have base faster attack cooldown - and STBFL received no changes to compensate. Deadlock enables killers to get free slowdown for literally doing nothing more than equipping the perk. This extends to (face)camping. Tunneling was at its weakest when DS’s only deactivation was after 60 seconds had passed - forcing the killer to eat a then five-second stun, or risk the survivor picking themself up with Unbreakable.
While survivors have basekit BT now, it also means that a survivor loses their use of Dead Hard if they have it and are immediately hit following after an unhook. And killers can still count to 10. DS has been nerfed so badly that hardly anyone runs it anymore; and even if they do, three seconds won’t get you enough distance in most instances - especially against the strongest killers.
I agree that the killer aura reading should remain part of Kindred, and never be basekit. Kindred can also provide a small speed bonus to all other survivor actions if the killer is too close to the hooked survivor.
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Do you know why stuff like otr gets nerfed from what we see in the PTB.
You can thank your fellow survivor that give all they can to find stuff like stacked endurance where the killer needs 5 hits to down some one. Who ruined bhvrs idea to stop camping? Survivor it's always survivor ruin stuff for themself
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Yes, it absolutely does. Which is why organized, high MMR SWF teams regularly bring Kindred.
Aura reading+SWF is incredibly strong - remember OoO?
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I feel like base kindred should just reveal surivors auras
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Basekit: survivors see each others aura when a teammate is on the hook
Kindred: The killer's aura is shown to you when they are within 16 meters of the hook. If they are in the range and not chasing a survivor, you gain 10% speed bonus on repairing, healing, cleansing, opening chests and exit gates
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Here my Offering:
Kindred Basekit for Survivors - Shadowborn Basekit for Killers
Deal?
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just give basekit kindred without the killer aura reading ability
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Pro comps don't bring it, at least those i watch in tournaments. And even if they do, they probably do it to see the killer's aura.
But they definitely don't need it to organize who goes for a save.
Basekit Kindred without the killer aura showing is a fair buff to narrow the gap with SWF which already have this info without the perk.
As along as we deny any QoL buffs to SoloQ, Killer buffs will always be limited.
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The killer aura reading being base would be too strong. Seeing your teammates is more than enough info
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People who say it showing the killer aura would be too strong..... why is it a problem? is camping not easy enough already?
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Its a problem because if you are working on a gen and the killer starts immediately walking towards you can be on the other side of the map by the time they get to your gen. Aka the most annoying part of playing against good swf.
Things like this shouldnt be hard to get buddy.
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They need to do something... also never say never
Solo's need to have at least a shot at winning without just waiting for hatch (a solo escape)
There could be a team MMR for SWF's... then be matched up with Killers that are close to them
Duo's and Trio's can have the same thing but be matched up with other Survivors that are close to that MMR
So basekit Kindred doesn't hurt that much... plus them adding in UI to the Survivor Icons will be even better then what we have now
It's not like we are asking for DS to become basekit... or Dead Hard
(Off topic)... doesn't seem odd that they are making Bill's perks basekit???
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That's not even a thing right now because it has a black bubble.
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What do you mean its not a thing obviously you can see the killer moving towards you. Oh do you mean the 0. whatever seconds you miss when they hook some one? Cmon buddy...
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It's not 0 seconds, I'm sure you'd know that if you used kindred everyday, or even played survivor more.
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i should have phrased it as 0.whateverseconds . Look buddy mate friend, the duration of the initial bubble is not important or in any way relevant to the discussion you asked for how it would affect people negatively and i told you how.
Killer not camping yet vs decent survivors you are getting a serious advantage in chases because you dont have to guess, you see them coming your way and noone else is nearby, BBQ, run. You know how annoying it is when you face the occasional really good SWFs that do that? Imagine every solo doing the same if they are good enough.
You are welcome for the answer buddy friend pal <3
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As someone who uses kindred almost every game, it is absolutely too strong to be basekit as it is. I feel like a lot of people don't really understand how to use its information if they think it should be free.
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They have a point about the bubble, it lasts long enough to shroud who the killer is if they leave the hook immediately either toward or away from you, and you do have less time to see who it is even if they move left or right. Been on a bit of a break but if its still in there its absolutely a bug that affects that.
That said it is only one portion of its info it provides though.
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I didn't ask tho. It doesn't affect anyone negatively.
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''People who say it showing the killer aura would be too strong..... why is it a problem? is camping not easy enough already?'' Buddy friend pal, just move along
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We need other communication methods as well to bridge the gap but basekit kindred would be a gr8 start (minus killer aura reading since it could be abused to just see what a killer is doing outside of camping). Also I see your point with peps getting hit immediately and otr going away we could add it back provided that the player loses collision so they could not use their 2 free endurance hits to bodyblock since that is why otr was nerfed in the first place.
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"Buddy pal" do you know what a rhetorical question is?
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I mean if what you are trying to imply with your rhetorical question is straight up wrong it requires an answer. You are welcome for the information, have a nice day <3
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It's not wrong tho "<3"
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Sure honey pal bud <3
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That's not how it works, sadly. The game doesn't make a difference if you're playing with your friend(s) or not. Not a single surv perk works like that, everybody uses everthing. And i don't see that changing anytime soon. Good start would be, to show in the endgame screen who actually played solo and who with friends - and then balance from there. Guess even that would be hard to track when it comes to crossplay.
Also, Auras give pinpoint accurate infos. Pair this with comms or just pre-mates with all good skilllevel and... No, thanks.
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I'm interested in what kind of monster killers would be when solo gets all the buffs they needs at this point tbh.
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HUD icons!
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Yes.
I've seen it in tourney comps, but I'm talking more about semi-pro stuff like HCS.
But people in this thread are demanding that it be added, aura intact. Which is what I was responding to.
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How many perks do we need basekit before survivors are happy?
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