Furtive Chase discussion
Continuing a series of threads on the least used perks according to Nightlight, next up is Ghost Face’s perk Furtive Chase (0.14% use)
Furtive Chase - You become obsessed with one Survivor. You lurk in the shadows, eliminating your victims one by one. When your Obsession is hooked, Furtive Chase receives a token, up to a maximum of 2/3/4 tokens. Each token decreases your Terror Radius by 4 meters while in a chase. When a Survivor rescues the Obsession from a hook, the rescuer becomes the Obsession. You can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
So this perk does two things - partial terror radius reduction during a chase and obsession swapping. The biggest problem here is that reducing your terror radius during a chase is virtually useless. The person you are chasing already clearly knows you are chasing them because they hear the chase music and can see you and you still have your red stain. And if you try and swap away from chasing one survivor to a different opponent odds are you will end up either being seen by the other survivor anyway since there are two people running around near them or you will end up breaking chase during the switch and your terror radius will pop back to normal.
Basically you could even replace this effect with literally being Undetectable in chase and it would still be a mostly useless effect. Terror radius reduction is primarily useful only between chases to help you get close to someone before the chase starts, not when the survivors already know where you are.
Some people occasionally try and pair this perk with another Obsession related perk like Rancor as a gimmick, but frankly none of those gimmicks are all that effective as a practical matter and Nemesis also allows for Obsession swapping but actually has a useful effect of its own of making a survivor Oblivious for an extended period. (Notice how Nemesis’ effect of Obliviousness is useful because the opponent is unaware of where you are out of chase.)
So this perk could really use a buff or revamp. One buff that might work would be to make it simply reduce your terror radius by X meters perk hook with no other conditions. Adjusting that value of X up or down could make the perk range from being kind of overpowered to not doing anything so it’s just a matter of finding the right value. Maybe something like a 3 meter reduction per hook, for instance, so that after six hooks you have a total 18 meter reduction for most killers for a net 14 meter radius? That could help you get quite a bit closer before a chase starts later in the match. It also would pair well with killers who have a reduced terror radius of their own like Meyers, etc.
Comments
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You could even make FC a Scourge Perk, unhooking scrouge applying the oblivious and blindness status effect to all survivors for 30 seconds. Paired with Floods of Rage, you got yourself a very nasty build that lets you sneak up survivors and secure a hit or two.
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There are 4 tokens. So 4x3 for 12 meters max. I mean given exactly these numbers, I already see good niche build. Take deathslinger with 1 slowdown of your liking, STBFL, new furtive chase and monitor & abuse and you have quite a strong chaser. But leaving 4m radius reduction (also outside of chase) would make it very strong (changing a lot of chasing killers into stealth-chasing killers).
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Honestly I'd say it needs two things to be decent. First, hitting a survivor reveals the obsession for ~2s. Second, the TR reduction stays in play for 10s after leaving chase.
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10 seconds are probably not enough. Otherwise yes. This could be nice (weaker) alternative to my version.
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Just to clarify I didn’t limit it to 4 tokens or tie it to hooking the Obsession in my suggestion.
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In that case I consider your buff bit too much.
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Here's my idea. I would make it into a Scourge Hook.
As long as a Survivor remains on a Scourge Hook, your Terror Radius is reduced by 8 meters.
When a survivor gets unhooked from a Scourge Hook, you are granted the Undetectable Status Effect for 16/18/20 seconds and the unhooker becomes the Obsession.
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Keep in mind the buff I mentioned depends entirely on the value you set for X meters per hook. If X is 1 meter per hook that's obviously too weak, if X is 10 meters per hook that's too much, so somewhere in the middle is a value for X that is generally reasonable.
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This I am afraid would promote camping (you loose quite a lot by unhooking for some killers - also unhooker just got huge warning about having big target on his back - another unhealthy soloQ stuff where you suddenly slip into next hook phase too much). Any idea that promotes camping doesn't sound too good to me.
Agreed. But when are we going to get that fine-tuned dark theory? I don't want to force my idea over other people, but making it thematic opposite to STBFL (with stacks and obsession and strong effect once fully charged) sounds nice to me. But I am also ok with other suggestions, if they don't break the game in some other manner.
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Well, it wouldn't be as effective as Insidious for example and you still have a Terror Radius. While it might promote Proximity Camping which is not a good idea, it's better than the current terror radius reduction. But unfortunately strategies will remain strategies, no matter how hard you nerf certain perks to the ground (no perk should reward you for doing nothing). Perhaps this perk should disable if you are too close to the hooked survivor.
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Well what about changing the effect to be useful to killer even after unhook (or even better - to be useful only after the unhook)?
The thing about camping (and tunneling) is, that it's easy to do compared to benefits it gives. Any perk that makes camping easier or more rewarding is the opposite of what should be done.
To clarify - I would not be even sad about camp/tunnel, if it was hard to do. Alternatively, it can be as easy as it is, but less beneficial to killer (e.g. longer hook times would mean camping looses objectives so even if it's easy to do, it would be unoptinal thing). Another alternative would be, that it's easy to do and not loose too much, but it would not provide strong benefit (by e.g. 1-time teleport of hook if killer stayed close for too long - you still press survivors on time, they can't rescue easily, but in the end camping does not really help you).
Your suggestion goes the opposite way - it makes camping more rewarding. Because you keep good effect for longer time in conjunction to standard camping benefits
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On that tangent, Yoichi is still a relatively new survivor in terms of balance passes so Dark Theory might just not have been on the list yet for a follow-up review. I agree it's a very underused perk though that could probably stand a buff.
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My furtive chase rework:
Every time you hook the obsession, you gain a token. For every token, your terror radius is decreased by 4 meters. The survivor that unhooks the obsession becomes the obsession.
You can get a maximum of 4 tokens
basically the same thing but now it reduces your terror radius at ALL times. I don't think it needs a ground-up rework
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Random thought: on top of the existing effect, for each token the Killer's chase music volume is lowered or suppressed entirely. Sows confusion by potentially tricking survivors into think the Killer has left them and Bam, he has not.
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the perk is designed to be used with monitor&abuse to reduce your TR outside chase to 0. Its suppose to reward you for going after different survivors with end reward that you become a stealth killer in the mid-game after 4 hooks. the terror radius reducation is generalist so it works on every killer excluding killer's with lullaby effect.
Its just that dev play super safe with killer perks so they put condition that it only works in a chase to make the perk useless.
Its like peanuts with scourge:hook pain resonance. they don't want you to just -hook- the survivor and see your terror radius drop. too strong! /s. I would probably use this perk on some killers if it actually worked properly. The perk sounds fun.
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It does not "just sound fun". It would actually be busted. You can basically get permanent oblivious effect without the icon and no counterplay (so you can't destroy your hex like with plaything) for 4 hooks, because TR on 12m for 32m TR killer does not help you dodge the hit - more so if it's "range" killer (for sure deathslinger, but also demogorgon, nurse, clown to some degree and even wesker with his starting 40m TR to name a few that comes to mind right away). 4 tokens x 4m for each token is waaaay better then monitor&abuse. You would need to make the condition harder (e.g. remove stack if hooking "wrong" survivor - but this sounds really unhealthy tunneling thing so I don't want this one) or make the effect weaker (3m for each token is still very strong, but much more manageable).
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counter-play is being good at the chase and not getting hooked. its also obsession perk and it only rewards killer if they hook obsession, so the perk is also inconsistent on top of that. even if it actually gave terror radius rewards, you would need run oni's nemesis to make it fully consistent, but its so many perks slots investment that killer has no perk variety at that point because the killer player has to fully commit his entire build to have a chance at getting lower terror radius.
The killer has no chase perks, no information perks, no generator defence perks. it would be so easy to dominate the killer in chase and genrush killers for running the build. wraith and ghostface has zero terror radius and they are not busted. Having low terror radius is not unfair. It would be decent reward for split pressure. I might actually have reason to hook entire team and you know.. not tunnel. Your probably going to lose against strong team for running the build but at least you'll have fun using the build while your losing for not running meta perks.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
You can't "just be good at chase" same way as you can't "just break all pallets". The game is designed so, that it's only matter of time. There are very very few survivor games where you don't get at least 3 hooks (and most of those are curtesy of certain addons on Meyers). It's actually MUCH more possible to get 4 hooks before 1st generator is fixed. And having basically no TR (you can count on it for death slinger) will give you free 1st hit (like legion) with the difference of not being just basic M1 killer afterwards. I still say this would be busted OP perk in proposed state - even if used on it's own without M&A (16m TR on deathslinger is still almost free hit - even more so considering you don't really hear TR if it's on the very edge of TR - it's so silent that it's basically not audible at all).
Also this would be probably a must-use perk on onryo. The value it would provide to her having absolutely no TR when stacked, 115% speed and intermittent invisibility. Wow. Single buff to make her so damn strong. No additional buff would be ever required on her
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I’m a little confused about the Onryo comment, she already is usually Undetectable out of chase. Reducing her terror radius doesn’t do much for her.
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she is 24m TR killer. -16 by new furtive chase and -8 by M&A means she does not give u any TR ever... Not just sometimes
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Sure, but having no terror radius during a chase doesn’t really matter much. It’s your terror radius between chases that makes the difference.
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I am talking about new version where this would be working also outside chase. I thought we are talking about buffed version already
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Either way Sadako is already Undetectable out of chase. Even if a perk made her Undetectable in chase I’m not sure she’s get much out of it.
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she has lullaby so technically she always has tr in demanifiest(Cloaked) form. Undetectable is just cosmetic feature for her power currently. he is saying if you do not use power, you gain undetectable without using the ability which actually entire point of the perk when you get 4 stacks.
I do not understand his logic because if you run m&a right now on her, she is 16 meter terror radius without using her power and this one is normal terror radius heartbeat, not the underworld lullaby(in the ability). it would be ironic that perk is legit better than ability. M&A itself is already better than current ability so that says a lot about sadako's power balance.
Are you saying you cannot good at the chase in that opening post? I do not agree. I think the game is designed in such a way where the survivor can almost flawless the game and 1vs1 the killer if they're good enough at the chase. Most maps are strong enough for the survivor to be very skill expressive in the chase. in fact, this is largely reason why a lot of killer are not that strong. The survivor controls the chase against most m1 killers. The powers are largely placebo's that look like they help the killer in the chase, but in reality the survivor can counter them with skill neutralizing the effectiveness of the power. The killer power with lower-counter play have more viability though. In my experience from playing survivor, I still get a decent chunk of games where the killer has 3-4 hooks in 5 generator completion. the survivor mains greatly exaggerate survivor being -unplayable-. Every now and again, you get weak teams as survivor that are impossible to carry but generally, my teammate feel strong at the game.
Getting 4 hooks in 1 generator completion is a joke. that is just weak survivor team. survivor can still do 3 gens in 90 seconds. generally, when you lose as survivor, its mostly because of poor gen efficient+bad series of chases. I think strong teams can generally do all 5 gens in 3 hooks. in practice, a killer should never really win. the killer relies on survivor mistakes in the chase to win. The difference between stronger killer's and weaker killer's is that stronger killer put you in positions where your more likely to make a mistake. Sometimes its not mistake, but more of lose/lose situation that killer was able to manufacture and take advantage of. Stronger killer are really good at that and part of skill-level for survivor is developing strategies to prevent/reduce chance for those situations to occur. Asking the killer to get 4 very specific obsession hooks is asking the killer to do a lot especially against strong team. for that reason I do not think the perk be broken. it gives strong reward for when killer is successful at the chase.
Deathslinger used to have default 16 meter tr with monitor&abuse. he was not busted. at 16 meter tr is not that crazy. I remember at some point in time where I used to work on old haddonfield top gens. In myer's house, I could still vault the window on the roof tops as deathslinger was walking up the stairs. These generator have no line of sight. With good reactions, you can still avoid the hit at 16 meter TR.
a perk that counters lower terror radius is Spine Chill. Spine chill is hard-counter to stealth. it allows you to optimize your position at the start of a chase. It is strong general perk. I just do not use it because I do not feel threaten enough by stealth killer to need to use it. If stealth killer were really strong, then I would definitely be using spine chill. When spirit was released. there was a period where i used spine chill because Spirit at this point was really strong. Old prayer bread+Mother daughter ring was complete terror with gen grabbing build. that was a point in the game where I felt the need to use spine chill to counter spirit. I used Iron will+spine chill+dead hard every game at that point in time.
If your afraid of monitor&abuse+furtive chase, you can use spine chill to counter it. its arguably stronger at countering stealth killers than it was previously with its new change.
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Current Furtive Chase only applies while in chase, at which time Monitor and Abuse increases your terror radius.
For clarity, in case I missed it, does your suggestion for Furtive Chase also apply to out of chase?
My own thought was maybe have Furtive Chase gradually suppress the chase music as well as the in-chase TR. FC seems designed as a perk meant to give you more value in chase than out, so having it lower your TR out of chase works against its purpose.
Post edited by Zeidoktor on0 -
Ok. I admit that I could have been wrong on this one. There are not that many sadako's that I face and most of them kind of give away there location. I did not realize it's because of their directional power instead of TR.
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"The biggest problem here is that reducing your terror radius during a chase is virtually useless."
Well combining it with Monitor and Abuse would be good. Just sayin'.
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