BUFF DECISIVE STRIKE!!!
Decisive strike was nerfed to the ground because you wanted to shake up the meta. However, this just 1.5 useable seconds to reach a pallet or window is just a bad joke. Nurses can kill you almost immediately after it, Blights can do the same, Huntresses and Deathslingers too, and even Demogorgon and the Plague can get away with it. Not forgetting to mention the fact that this perk deactivates at the end game, what makes it more useless. The result of this reckless action is the increasing number of tunnel and camping, what is reflected in the current kill rates that are increasing. Meanwhile, survivor players, specially in Solo Queue are suffering the consequences of being targeted and eliminated from the game prematurely by those unbalanced issues. If you want to deactivate decisive strike at the end game, make it at LEAST 4 second stun and able to use 2 times in a match, so it will severely punish players for tunneling people to death just to have an easy win. The DBD community urges changes towards this matter because people, like me, had enough from this kind of gameplay that only destroys the joy of playing this game.
Data Related to Kill and Surviving Rates:
Comments
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I would love to have a 5sec DS basekit, and able to use twice if use the perk.
But if basekit Unbreakable is coming, buffing to DS alone may already broken.
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I am a university student, and I don't have time to post a lot of things here. However, I am seeing a lot of bad things happening with the design of the game, a lot of contradictions. I just want to play a game where things are really properly addressed.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
But you need to understand that there is the new Last Survivor Standing stuff that might break the entire game mechanic. I mean, stronger killers are going to be stronger, and weaker are going to be weaker. Unbreakable should never be unlimited, and killers should never end a game without hooking a survivor (that's why Moris we're nerfed one hook to two hooks requirement).
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The change is to promote slugging to death and slug play, but the same time it promote slugging Nurse even more (the root of problem) plus tunneling (45sec to down 3 is far easier than 4). It also remove alot of interaction between all players, and those special moment of 4 down into unbreakable flash light save a teammate, the hatch spawn next to the last slugged survivor... which make DBD vids always fun to watch.
The agrument on both side about Last stand update is they think the other side has better buff. But in the end both side hate it.
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It is a completely unnecessary change that no one asked for, and it is just a desperate try to bring something new to a game rather than fixing existing issues. I justify that because if that happens, the gap between who receives more buff is going to be further evident, and very discouraging to play for a certain group.
I mean, it should never be a thing. Instead, they could redesign maps, put more pallets in some places and remove pallets in others.
Anyway, If that thing comes as an permanent feature, I will just uninstall the game and play another thing. I don't have a lot of time to play games, so I am very mindful with what I spend time on. If it is going to make me anxious, bored, and angry, I will just kiss dbd goodbye, and I believe a lot of people who don't talk in the forum will do it too.
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BHVR wanted to kill Decisive Strike just so it would be less used, even though it led to much easier tunneling. Instead of making the DS skill checks easier to hit, they made the perk more useless. I do appreciate the basekit endurance, it's been really helpful. But DS and Reassurance need buffs.
1) make DS have an easier skill check to hit, and the stun being 5 seconds so we actually get a chance to fight the tunneling
2) extend the range of Reassurance by 1 or 2 meters, just so we can use it above the basement finally. Also remove the white aura for the killer, so they don't know that someone with Reassurance is nearby.
3) Disable killers' powers within a certain radius near a hooked survivor.
BHVR refusing to do these things makes me thing they actually endorse tunneling and camping. I hope they prove me wrong.
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DS has been an abusive perk for years. Now it is a risk/reward appropriate perk where you have a chance to earn an escape from being tunneled.
The devs promised to make the stun 3 seconds because enduring used to counteract part of the stun. There was a ~2 year delay while that got sorted out so you had plenty of time to enjoy the way it worked before.
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Next from you: Remove 5 hooks from each map, its too easy for killers to hook someone 😅
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I am still waiting for something to counter my argument about DS.
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Well said, indeed.
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What argument? Your "Nurse or Blight or Range-Killers like Huntress can hit"-thing?
Congratulations. No one said a perk should make u god-mode against every killer.
Oh and about Nurse: She is no killer u should balance this game around. She was and is broken.
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Your claims about risk and reward are flawed because the "reward" (1.5 to walk/run away from the killer) is not enough to reach a window.
If it was used as an aggressive perk for some players, it is on them. Also, people against DS just purposefully ignore the fact that almost any perk can be used "aggressively" in a game play, like prove thyself in a gen rush build, head on and flash bang in a stun build, blastmine + repressed alliance in a gen prank build.
Also, I used to play killer (clown main), and I never complained about DS because I knew that perk is mostly used against tunneling. If someone was playing aggressive, I would just hit them and leave them on the ground (slug). I mean, come on! If you had DS before that nerf you couldn't anything else that could contribute for the progress of the game. If you touch the gen, it's gone. If you touch a totem, it is gone. If you heal someone, it's gone. That's fair, and enough to keep the perk balanced.
What Behavior did was to completely make the perk weaker than premonition. You just slap the killer with a plastic glove and run 2 meters away just to get downed in 1 second.
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You should reread my post above /\
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So how many kilers is it?
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Ive said this before on the forums, and Ill say it again since it is applicable. Decisive Strike does not need a stun duration increase to 4-5 seconds.
The only things that should be changed about DS is for the animation to be faster so the survivor has more time to move around and that the survivor needs a short Haste buff to get to a better area.
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Don'ty even answer to this guy, he is a known camper/tunneler around here, makes posts complaining about how changes makes it difficult to tunnel and camp.
He even once said "but survivors are tunneling generators"... not really worth your time.
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That's right! Decisive Strike was just fine before the update, now, it is just a water pistol in a real time war.
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I disagree, even with the speed haste killers such as nurse can catch you vaulting a window or before reaching a pallet.
The ONLY exception is in this case:
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I mean, someone has to do the job to expose the truth to the people in this forum, so at least we will discuss about it, and probably solve the problem.
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Re-read what I put carefully. :)
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This video makes evident the necessity to change the perk.
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This YouTuber further explains, among other perk changes, the DS terrible nerf.
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I reread and I maintain my disagreement. The haste is absolutely insignificant if a nurse can blink immediately afterwards, if a blight can use his power immediately afterwards, if deathslingers can shot immediately afterwards, if Demogorgon can shred immediately afterwards, if huntresses can throw a hatch immediately afterwards, if trickster can throw knives immediately afterwards, if clown can throw a bottle and force a medium vault immediately afterwards.
Try again.
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AGAIN, re-read what I put.
Actually, you know what, since you keep on missing the main point that I made. Ill just spell it out for ya. "Is for the animation to be faster so the survivor has more time to move around", basically, what Im getting at is that the stun duration is not the issue, the animation is the issue.
The animation for DS is way too long and the survivor does not make any amount of distance because of the animation. If the survivor was dropped off the killer's back quicker, AND gain a Haste buff during that time, then DS would be in a better spot but would not absolutely destroy low-tier killers since the distance gained would be the same as before.
There is actually a long history behind DS and the 3 second stun duration was a long-overdue promise BHVR made a long time ago, but with it they forgot to fix the animation since the old DS animation was intended to be way quicker than it is now.
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That's true, but whoever doesn't think DS needs to be at the very least buffed to 5 seconds is a hard tunneler and isn't able to get any kill without abusing a gameplay issue.
I think pretty much everyone does. But yeah, it's important to expose the developpers to this. That's also why I report tunnelers every time. They won't get banned, but it sends a message to behavior.
But yeah honestly, it needs to be 5 seconds basekit. The perk could increase it to 2 times use, and maybe add a speed boost and make it kind of an exhaustion perk?
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You make a point also that the animation that lasts around 1.5 seconds makes it harder to balance the perk.
5 to 3 seconds doesn't exactly sound like a very big deal.
But what really happenned is that the effective stun duration went from 3.5 to 1.5 seconds.
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First of all, as I previously stated in my previous post
The animation is ONE of the problems. However, you are too much biased to even read the first sentence of my text. But, it okay, I understand your situation.
When it comes to the possibility of the animation being faster, of course that seems a good idea. However, how would you do that if the skill-check starts WITH the animation itself?
Another matter, doing this feature, would not fix the issue of some killers counter this perk like nurse with her blinks, blights with his special attack, deathslingers with their weapons, tricksters with their knives, huntresses with their hatches, Demogorgon with their shreds, clown with their bottles, nightmare with their pulls of blood, Wesker with his dash, artists with the crows, etc. If you watched the video that someone brought to the discussion about the 3 second stun for every killer, you would be able to notice how bad designed it is.
About the haste in conjunction with the faster animation, it doesn't feel that will solve the problem presented above. It will just make it happen quicker.
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Again, fixing the animation to drop survivors almost instantly creates 3-2.5 seconds of time. Provided a Haste buff and you should get the same amount of distance.
You need to keep in mind that 5 second stuns really, really hurt low-tier killers as they are more pressed for time and pressure in comparison to high-tier killers.
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Yeah, but the point of DS is to be a nuclear weapon.
It's not meant to be actually used. It's meant to say "If you tunnel, you'll get a fair price".
the stun could be 30 seconds long it wouldn't be stronger than if it was 10 because killers just would never tunnel.
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If they are more hurt by it, just don't pick up survivors. No one, literally, NO ONE forces you to pick up a survivor that is playing aggressive or in a locker. Just hit them and move one. Get the rescuer instead. The slugged survivor will not do gens, and the rescuers will be chased. It means that only 2 survivors are Probably doing gens (some people are blessing totems, doing chests, etc).
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I see you, brother. That's why it was created, to make people scared to play in a cheap and harassing way.
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The point of DS is to be a second chance, like quite literally. I hate the term "second chance perks" but it's entire gimmick is just to reset a chase after being tunneled.
Also I think that you are forgetting that fact that we have multiple anti-tunnel perks now. BHVR is trying to limit how much power each one has since you can stack them and be damn-near impossible to kill.
That being said, I hate tunneling, I think it's boring for both sides, but even this feels like Im arguing with a brick wall.
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When did I ever say that DS was an issue for me exclusively? Just because I dont want a 5 second DS stun Im automatically a killer that constantly tunnels?
Look through all of my posts and youll see I do not like tunneling at all. Ive made it clear that I dont tunnel and I think the strategy hold a lot of people back from being better at the game. Ive stated before that I think tunneling is a valid strategy, but it still does not make it the right strategy to use.
I just think that somethings are a bit overkill, and I think 5 second DS is overkill.
And also because Im stubborn and want BHVR to uphold a promise from literal years ago.
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DS was created to band-aid an unfun play style, likewise borrowed time was.
When it comes to multiple anti-tunneling perks, OoR can be denied if you are immediately hit after being unhooked. Therefore, a killer can chase you again, down you, and hook. That's what genuinely happens most of the time. You can use a combo Dead Hard, Out of Record, and DS to have something closer to old DS, but first, you would waste 3 perk slots for it, second, you could bleed out (deep wound) in a locker, third, you could be slugged or picked up and hit the ds. However, if the killer knows that you have DH, they will just wait to be close enough to hit you. DH is laughable to counter in comparison to the old one.
Also, the current feature against tunneling just feed up Save The Best For Last stacks, what can help killers to counter DH, OoR, and many other endurance perks because they don't stack (and they should never stack btw). But, the point is that those features, cause more damages than benefits.
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Honestly, I would be fine with 5s DS as long as it deactivates in end game. No perk in the game should guarantee you escape just because you got hooked to close to end game. What is that? I still keep coming back to this one question though... Why do you need DS to be buffed when you have OTR which can be used perfectly fine an anti-tunnel perk TWICE. The reason why many people consider DS unfair is because just as OTR nothing stops you from using it aggressive. If you get healed or someone else is downed and hooked after you get unhooked, you are not getting tunneled. DS however will still activate in those instances. Also let's be real. You could stun the killer for 10s+ and it would only incentivise tunneling even more because most killers would be affraid of survivors using it aggressively. The solution is then to get it out of the way immediately and kill this person to make up for the time lost. Not to mention with base kit unbreakable you will again be invincible for 1 minute with only 1 perk slot needed which would make it unfair if DS was 5s again.
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I didn't not say that this is an "exclusive issue for you". I said that "No One forces you to pick up a survivor...", If you do that, you should pay the price. Just for clarification purpose, "You" in my previous texts means anyone who are willing to do that.
If Behavior saw that DS was an issue because of the 5 seconds, they would have changed it 2 years ago, but they didn't. Because, DS in fact is healthy for the game, it makes tunneling killers think twice before doing something reckless. In fact, they changed it because they wanted to make it weaker, so killers tunneling and camping could finally kill a survivor without a proper punishment. They achieved their desired goal indeed, but at the detriment of a fair game play for survivors that was protected by DS after the conspicuous actions rework (that is absolutely fair).
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I agree that DS could deactivate at the end game. But, 3 seconds stun time is way too short to punish a unfun play style.
Now, If a perk should not give someone a free escape, why No Way Out don't deactivate after hatch is close? I mean, a killer should never get a free kill because of a perk too. For instance, a person "A" is the last person alive in the match, and both killer and survivor are looking for the hatch; the killer founds it, and close it. The person is right by a gate and when they try to power it. BOOOM... No Way Out. I mean, this perk basically will let the killer know their location and it is over. It is just sit down, cry and drink camomile tea to lower the stress levels (jk). But, yeah, no way out should not work like that, as well as DS should deactivate at the end game. But, if we keep one, we should keep the other by comparison.
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The hatch mechanic is outdated anyway. Think about it. It is the ULTIMATE second chance. Even if you did nothing all game and the killer absolutely annihilated your team you can still escape. But it gets even worse. A killer closing the hatch allows a survivor to potentially open the exit gates which sometimes is even easier and safer than to find the hatch. Another second chance btw (more like a third one). And if the survivor now manages to escape via gate the MMR system considers them to be the winner of the match. Meaning you can lose the game twice and still win. A killer running No Way Out and closing the hatch might seem like the win is gifted to them but remember that only happens if you lost the game twice already. I hardly think this is the same as a person that basically cannot be killed because they still have DS.
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OTR, DS and arguably BT are the only real anti tunnel perks.
OTR doesn't combo well with DS because of how limited in time DS is, using OTR makes it unlikely to get caught before the 60 seconds are up. And BT doesn't combo with neither DS nor OTR.
What you seem to be very stubborn not to understand is that if you don't tunnel, you don't get DS'd. The point of DS existing is to make tunneling a bad strategy.
I get that you say you hate tunneling but at the same time you're not making efforts to be open to changes that would reduce it.
Now if a killer WANTS to kill someone, he will. But the end result should be that he doesn't get more than 1 kill.
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Basekit unbreakable actually makes it a valid counter to down someone who plays too agressively just because they have DS. Removing a survivor from the game for 45 seconds is huge.
The guy might feel very clever to be on the ground for 45 seconds, but he's not repairing any gens in the meantime.
I don't think anyone think the end game deactivation should go, it was a good change, but it needs to be 5 seconds again, and honestly, it needs to be baseline.
Also OTR is a poor man's DS. Yeah you get two uses, but you definitely don't gain much distance, and you're losing time mending on top of it.
Again, even a 10 seconds DS would be easy to counter as killer:
- Do not tunnel.
- If the survivor plays aggressively with DS, slug them, they'll be useless for 45 seconds. in this time you should be able to down another survivor and put pressure to generators.
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I totally agree that the hatch mechanic is outdated. I personally only scaped by hatch 5 times since the last update. I miss old hatch, but keys should not allow more than one person use it. It should be one key for one person. Anyway.
I mean, it feels like a hope to survivors that did something in the match, but got teammates that DC (attempted unhook to death) and leave them by themselves (It happens a lot with me). Sometimes, I did 1 gen, and two of my teammates killed themselves on the hook after being downed. I mean, I did my part, I played the game, but they screwed up and it heavily impacts my mmr when I don't get the gate escape after hatch is closed. However, I must say that escaping through the gate after hatch is closed is the most hard thing to do, and I rarely get it, and having no way out in top of it just give the killer a free win. No way out should only be used when the last gen is popped not when the hatch is closed.
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Well said, bro.
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The problem is that it isn't 45 seconds. Unbreakable is already a very popular perk and I don't see that changing. Its pickrate will probably sky rocket. 22,5s of being on the ground might seem like a bad thing for the survivors but if that means another survivor makes it to the next safe structure or pallet it's a huge payoff. Someone like Nurse won't even notice anything different but a Clown, Trapper, Myers, Sadako, Freddy etc. will feel the impact. It isn't just the immediate consequences of the perk getting a buff I'm worried about but more the ways in which it can be used to provide an advantage it should not provide.
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To be honest, I don't like the unbreakable and the last survivor standing idea too. Mean, survivors could get just ONE self pick up as basekit ONLY. So, slugging to death would be countered. Last survivor standing seems like a bad joke, slug nurses and blights might take advantage of it very easily.
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I'm sorry you had such bad experiences in past games but as I said it is not really a free win. The killer already won the match before. Killing 3 survivors is a win by definition and giving the last survivor the chance to escape via hatch is nice consolation prize but getting another chance to win after they fail to get the hatch feels weird. A perk that counters this specific scenario does something that should only be logical. It basically guarantees the killer wins the game after they won both the real 1v4 and the 1v1 for hatch. Getting the exit gate open is not easy on a map like Midwich but what about Suffocation Pit, Eyrie of Crows, Ormond, Mothers Dwelling, Temple of Purgation and the list goes on where often enough there is no way the killer can defend both gates if they're not super mobile just because they are too far spread an there isn't a line of sight between them.
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I just disagree with the possibility of a perk locking the only chance a survivor have from escape. Even if a killer doesn't have stacks on NWO (in case of DCs), he will get 12 seconds from it. (If I am not mistaken) So, yeah, I believe that it is unfair.
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Ds should be 3,5s stun and faster animation then it should also disable killer power for 5s so that would put every killer on equal position facing it.
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Nothing will get reverted. End of Story. If u like it or not doesnt matter.
I have to live without Pop or Ruin, I even lost 15sec Dead Mans Switch just because of a Merciless Storm-Bug.
Will they restore my favourite perk while fixing this Sadako-Perk? I doubt it too.
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Never did you ever play survivor and run to a generator, get it to 33% and for no reason at all run around the map to find another generator and get that one to 33% and then finally find a third generator somewhere else and get that generator to 33% progress before going back to the first generator to get it from 33-66% (or 0-66% if the killer touched it).
You find a generator and finish it. Why? Because finished generators can't be stopped. Likewise dead survivors can't be resurrected. Killer and survivor are both played more efficiently when you finish discrete parts of the objective. Finishing a generator is infinitely better than getting a generator to 90% and have it be reset to 0% progress. Likewise as killer you hook one person three times to end them. You might be going for three states on two people so you can "one hook" a third survivor at the end of the game. If you want to lose then you will hook each person once before ever hooking anyone twice.
Tunneling and gen rushing are the same idea applied to both game roles. Tunneling is not fun for survivors and gen rushing is not fun for the killer. You can't just ask to remove one without dealing with the other.
Here's a crazy idea....
Give the killers with the possibility to cheese DS a 5 second stun (Nurse, Blight, Clown, PH, Plague, etc).
Then give all the other killers a 3 second stun.
The only problem I see with this is that Plague should only get a 5 second stun if she has her spit power. But do you think the devs can code the game so that the killers can be separated into two different DS categories? Much less do you think they could give plague a 3 second stun without her power and a 5 second stun with her power?
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Are you DBD representative? If not, who said it won't be changed? They changed the crazy overpowered thanatophobia that was making the game be flooded by legions and plagues. People killing themselves on the hook, and so on and so forth. Changes are necessary for this issue, if not addressed, they may suffer the consequences of survivors stopping play the game. Simple.
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