Nice unbalanced game that favor survivors
Comments
-
Wow, that's a lot.
0 -
It favors whoever brought the better loadout.
1 -
Basekit BT triggers on anyone getting off the hook by any means to make facecamping less effective. You got unlucky you hooked a guy with active deliverance next to an open gate... no need to kill the game because of it.
2 -
Nah, i know that you are the most forefront pro killer person on this forum but i wouldn't call you extreme.
At least not this "screaming and kicking" tantrum.like of extreme where every post/thread from a person reads like a temper tantrum.
The last big one of that kind that i remember was lord Toni, and a few smaller ones that got banned quite fast.
0 -
I honestly didn't know delivrance works with new BT, especially not in End Game Collapse, well ty, good to know that i guess
0 -
This is just simply a skill issue. A loop doesn't guarentee a survivor will loop you 3 time and make loads of time. Idk how you play but if you struggle to end chases then you must just shift+w after the survivor.
When i play killer. Even against high level high skill survivors, I play unpredictably, I'll moonwalk and double back on loops to lunge into pallet. Sometimes i get stunned sometimes I surprise the surv and get a hit, probably 50/50. Ghost face is amazing at it. Just pop stealth and the drop in tr and the stain disappearing often throws off the surv for that one second you need to double back and clap them. Demogorgon, twins, clown, huntress obviously nurse. All of them have amazing anti loop and some other killers can punish loopers like deathslinger and plague.
And you can injure a surv and then hassle a gen, switching targets rapidly really throws swfs off their game. Predicting what vault a surv is going for allows you to use a different route and cut them off. Run discordance, overcharge, oppression, jolt. All of these will let you figure out what gens are being worked on and help regress them.
Gens being done quickly is no bad thing sometimes, first 2 gens usually pop pretty quick, then just herd them away from the ones you want to keep for the 3 gen then you'll get lots of downs and hooks in the lategame. Idk how you play but playing killer effectively against swfs requires planning and mind games. Just holding W and clicking when surv is close enough isn't going to work at high mmrs.
2 -
I guess you are right, as i said i am not as skilled as the game thinks, or the mmr is completely broken, one game i play vs newbies and i get easy 4k with 1 gen done, another game i face lvl 70+ bully squad that is running the most toxic loadout you could run with ofc map offering.
There is no middle ground, you either rekt or get rekted.
0 -
Yh this game is a bit seesaw like that. Maybe 2 in every 10 games i get as killer is actually even. I either steamroll a team with no teamplay or struggle against bully squads. I live for those games where it feels like an even match and I'm not forced to tunnel to get a quick kill by genrushing but i have to work for my downs. And surv is even more extreme, we either escape with ease against a baby killer or we get rapidly 4Kd.
I'd just lean into the losses for a bit, not worry too much about getting that 4 k. A few bad games will help balance your mmr and you'll see less bully boy squads. What killers you play out of interest?
0 -
I really play all to be honest, depends what i feel like to go, but the most games i have with Clown and Nurse. Clown is especially fun to me because you can end chases very quick most of the time
0 -
Good swf teams can´t be a tiny percentage of actual players. Otherwise their impact on escape rates wouldn´t be noticeable in the stats. But it is.
0 -
Why is this absurd?
Every single competitive multiplayer game gets balanced around the top players. Not the bottom ones.
According to the official stats, SC is the most used survivor perk. Do you really want to balance the game around players self caring in the corner of the map?
1 -
Ok tiny percentage is probably an exaggeration but the majority of players are still going to be less than skillful. Doesn't take many slip ups for the killer to have an easy game. Particularly in chases, unless you have a lot of experience it's very easy to lose a chase and get downed against even a semi competent killer
Balancing a game to only appeal to the competitive players will make it pretty unplayable for new players. Which will kill the uptake tate of the game They need to do some balancing on solo q as killer really seems to dominate it as is.
3 -
Yeah 99% of dbd players just take self care in corner... Game should be balanced around most players if you balance around the very best survivor teams only having chance winning it ruins the game for everyone else.
1 -
man get out of here with your complaining killer has never been easier than it is now, while solo q is in hell.
2 -
As i said on multiple occasions
Solo q is bad
Killer is bad in high mmr
I never said killer is bad against solo Q
1 -
I disagree here.
DBD should be balanced around competitive players and make Killers stronger
DBD should fix solo Q
DBD Should give back Ranking system
DBD Should give BUFFS to survivors in lower MMR, such as "From bronze to Gold, they have 1 or 2 more perks" or something similar, im sure it can be think of to be fair. That way it is going to be fun for everyone
Low mmr players usually die to killers without PERKS, without addons, playing C tier killers and so on. If they balance the game around these players, i don't see how high mmr can have fun for both survivors and killers
0 -
The point you're not considering is that games are balanced around all players; not just one extreme or the other if they want to succeed. With a very few exceptions balancing a game around a small group of players on either side kills player retention.
3 -
Killer is not bad at high mmr, at high mmr you occasionally get the sweats but it isn't anywhere near as often. You also don't need to be at high mmr unless you want too. Just play nice for a bit sparing some survivors and you won't be high mmr anymore. Besides at this point MMR is seemingly a myth.
1 -
But why? You all state that it would make the game less appealing for new players. But you don´t explain why.
Balancing around top players makes sense, because even a potatoe player will eventually get better. While good players can´t beat the balancing thats set up around bad players.
Imagine for a second, that the 15% higher escape rate of SWF would instead be a 15% higher kill rate of a killer. So instead of 60% of the top killer, he´d have a 75% kill rate. There would be a massive outcry of the community. Demanding (rightfully) the immediate nerf of said killer. But for SWF thats ok. Sounds weird, doesn´t it?
1 -
Check this guy on twitch, currently 51 win in a row SWF survivor team, yeah really balanced game, always getting 4 escapes
1 -
I'd look at VHS for an example. There's no doubt that the top skilled Monster players has a good chance to beat the top skilled Teen player teams. However, the skill floor for Monster is higher than the skill floor for Teen so, while in theory, everyone could improve to that point people weren't willing to spend dozens of games getting losses so they could stand a chance. They just stopped playing. I brought it up during beta as I pointed out, in my first 20 games played concurrently at each side, I had six times as many wins on Teen as I had on Monster and a new player isn't going to stick around for 40 to 50 games to win 5 of them (as an example with Monster).
It can be different in a symmetrical game as characters will have similar characteristics and might just have minor variances or even the same abilities reskinned (eg. The Old Republic or WoW pvp). However, by definition, an asymmetrical game has to have wildly varying characteristics as it's multiple people versus a smaller number of people. The more variation in abilities from one player the less individual success is determined by each player's abilities and level of experience (eg. camping and tunneling is definitely counterable but the skill floor for countering tunneling and camping is higher than the skill floor to do it so newbie Killers crush newbie survivors with it but then struggle in higher MMRs since they haven't developed chase skills or timing as to when to tunnel and camp since they just crushed newbies previously).
In practicality, since people are playing games to have fun they won't nor should they play if they can't have fun because a skill floor or game mechanic hinders their success to the point they don't have fun on the chance they might have fun later. A very few people will continue but most will just stop playing and that would kill the player base. Unless the game can be popular enough and competitive enough that it can become a spectator sport balancing around the top would leave the game with a tiny playerbase and possibly not even enough money to run the servers in the long run. To succeed as a game where you want participation you have to consider all skill levels.
0 -
I guess the analogy could be applied to Nurse. A new player will get stomped by survivors, while he tries to learn her. Which can result in a horrible experience. Now this simply can be prevented to a certain point with the difficulty indicator we currently have for every killer. So a new player wouldn´t attempt to learn Nurse, while still learning the basics.
Clear indicators, tooltips, tutorials and bot modes could certainly help new players to get a grip of how the game works and how to improve.
When i ask to balance the game around top players, i´m not asking to make the game less accessible or harder for new players. I´m just saying that the considered skill ceiling for balance decisions should be higher.
For example, in tournaments killers often hard camp and rely on NOED to get a 2 or maybe 3k. Despite the fact that perks/loadouts are heavily restricted to prevent certain combos. Best action here would be to have official non restricted tournaments where the best players show what is possible when everyone can equip what they want. Then take those matches and balance around them to make the game overall more balanced and fun for everyone.
1 -
Hens is top 0,001% players yeah let's balance around that. There are many more nurse and blight players having 100 wins a row than those kind of survivors.
4 -
If your position is that BHVR doesn't include higher skill levels enough I don't really have an opinion on that topic. You could be correct; I don't know and I don't have enough information on it so I'll steadfastly sit on my fence on that issue. The part I care about is making sure new players and intermediate players are also considered and if BHVR can change things to make it more enjoyable for the top without sacrificing the other player ranges that sounds like a good thing.
I'm definitely not opposed to any changes that enhance the player experience in a net positive; the reason why balancing for the top talk makes me nervous is because I've seen balancing around only the top leads to unenjoyable, dead games more often than not. If a change can be made that enhances the overall gaming experience be it at the bottom, middle or top I consider that a great thing as long as all ranges remain enjoyable to play.
0 -
Ok let me explain why. At lower mmrs killers absolutely rinse survivors. A new player trying to play solo q survivor is unlikely to survive many games at all. Hell as a competent player my solo q survival rate is dirt poor. The balancing requires survivors to make advanced plays and co ordinated tactics to have a chance of escaping against even a fairly basic killer player. Unless you hide all game and play for hatch.
My first few games as killer were absolute slaughter fests. I downloaded the game, loaded up demogorgon and proceeded to 4k with it. Second game Loaded up trapper, 3k because I forcibly slugged a player to death and allowed one to escape because i thought a bleed out would finish my daily ritual that required me to kill a survivor by my own hand. And the 4ks just kept rolling in.
It took about a week of whitewash games like this for me to come up against a decent team of survivors who actually knew how to play the game effectively. And they effectively prevented me doing anything, proper bully squad. A player with about 20 hours of playtime ended up playing against a squad with an average of 720 hours playtime.
My early survivor games on the other hand were the opposite end pf the spectrum. I died in perhaps 85% of the games I played for my first 100 hours. Not a pleasant experience. And I hit my gaming hard, I'd been devouring the dbd wiki and watching streams to learn the mechanics.
The balance from my perspective playing surv and killer pretty evenly, is that if survs know exactly what to do, they will put up a good fight. But one weak member on a team or one DC and the game quickly falls apart for them. And if the killer plays sweaty tactics like tunneling and face camping they can remove a surv from the eqation and mess up the game for survs pretty quick.
I currently have 12 days play time. And in the majority of my killer matches I absolutely destroy. It's got to the point where i make a point of letting last survivor go because constant 4ks just get boring. And it's not seal clubbing like my first week. Im up against survivors with almosy 10 times the play time i have and I'm still killing them with a little effort. If i properly sweat like when I'm grinding pips and run an effective killer with sweaty add ons and a favourable map offering, i practically never lose.
I have to deliberately run weaker killers and perks just for fun. More enjoyable challenging games. Killers individually can decide tonplaybtactics that have no effective counter. Look at killer streamers with 30+ game winstreaks like Dr.eggman. Anyone who says this game is survivor sided either has wicked high mmr and struggles or is god awful at playing killer and wants to blame it on game balance.
2 -
This i can agree with. Solo q is madly killer sided. If they improved the solo q experience then they could make tweaks to even out swf games.
Clown is an excellent killer just being able to slow survs in an open chase is so good. Nurse I absolutely hate playing because i can't hit blinks, but players who are good with her are practically unbeatable. With clown i love running regression perks and hunting perks like bbq and spies.
My go to when i want instant wins are spirit and doctor. Spirit is so good at ambushing gens to disrupt progress and ending chases quick. Doctor's base power is mad good at slowdown and reveals survivors easily, all you need to do is be competent at chase and his abilities do the rest. love stacking overcharge and oppression. And his addons are nuts. The red stain one acts like a spot light, Fake pallets are so good for messing up surv's chases, and illusory doctors help you find survivors. His shock therapy is amazing for anti loop, little bit of anticipation and you can stop survs dropping pallets during chase.
1 -
they should start buffing survivors again. i'm tired of the nerf hammer on the survivor for years on end. they have destroyed the solo survivor experience in my opinion. i have 100% incentive to play survivor ALL. THE. TIME. devs are clueless as per usual
1 -
Your posts make no sense whatsoever.
3 -
you would be very upset if you found out about a tournament where there were no rules, killers and surviovrs could bring what ever they wanted . I think the only thing that was pre-determined was the map
Out of all the games, the average kill rate was 2.16
Not everyone was playing Blight or Nurse either, at the time Artist was the most recent killer and she made an appearance. The result was a 4k. Keep in mind this was before the changes to Dead Hard, increased gen times, general killer buffs, etc.
The game is a lot more balanced than you think. Is it perfectly balanced? Of course not, but its definitely a lot closer than people realize
4 -
Yes there can be balance around everything, if there is a will
They can nerf hell out of SWF teams in high mmr if they want, and leave lower mmr intact or even buffed.
They have to implement ranking system and put some restrcitions and nerfs the higher you go.
But i guess there is just not enough will power to do it.
This would be even fun.
Imagine "Dead Hard" Being locked out of your kit if your above Diamond rank for example, and in the same time basekit kindred buff for lower mmr and so on. This is just one example ( doesn't have to be DH at all ), it can literally be think through what to buff, what to disable and so on, to make perfect balance
0 -
I'm glad I'm regarded as such. Many of my discussions were inspired by rage-inducing, silly interactions that happened in the game, but that's why I've stopped making more of them, because they're never going to be seen as more than that.
Shout-out to Lord Tony. I literally follow his streams still. He's gotten better, but you can expect salt pretty much every time you tune in. I like to drop a "SWF!" because he used to assume every lobby was a SWF.
0 -
My position is that BHVR should do both. One one hand, they should make the game more accessible for new players. Improving the bot mode to fully decide what perks/loadouts the bots have and to chose different killers as opponents would make it easier to learn what a killer can/can´t do. The Bot mode should be fully customizable. Allowing for SWF together with/against bots. So people can test stuff/builds and get used to it.
Now the fine tuning for perks/addons should take the top players into account. A top player would stack gen or healing perks for maximum efficiency. Which is optimal. Meanwhile other players equip perks that are staight up terrible and don´t provide anything meaningful to the match. Devs need to look on what perks top players don´t touch and then look at the why. We have tons of useless perks/addons that need a rework, but which aren´t reworked because their usage rate appears to be normal or good in the overall stats. This needs to change.
1 -
See my post above. A proper Bot mode, which lets the players adjust everything would greatly help new players. A killer could learn how to play a new killer, use his power, test the addons, etc. In a bot mode mode where the survivor bots are as skilled/unskilled as he wants them to be.
Same for survivors. Decide what killer bot they want to face, with the full loadout and how the ai performs. While also having the possibility to play with friends and bots against the bot killer.
This would give a better start for new players. Since they could learn the game in a save environment.
1 -
I´m happy to elaborate if you have questions.
2 -
Nurse and Blight would definitely struggle, and most likely lose. Even the best killers in the game still need strong perks and add-ons to compete with a high level SWF like you mentioned.
1 -
Definitely a great suggestion. Even tutorials on looping, avoiding 3 gens, chase advice. All would help massively. I'd also go with VC should be available in game.
It's so unusual to see a multiplayer game with no voice chat. Like what are all survivors canonically mute in the entity's realm? Pretty sure they aren't. And it would allow more experienced players to educate newer ones and provide some sorely needed co ordination to solo q teams
1 -
That's my point... so in other words it's player choice
0 -
You mentioned that Nurse and Blight wouldn't have a problem with winning, which is what I was mentioning in my reply.
1 -
In terms of BHVR's MMR they wouldn't have that much difficulty getting one Kill
Again it comes down to player choice... Take what I said and flip it... how much difficulty would Pig have if the build suited her playstyle VS. an unorganized team (solo's)
But getting 4K's would be harder... unless that player knows what they are doing and the other side didn't know how to stop it
Sorry about that... I can't process words like I used to (stroke)
1 -
Sadly, the community is against ingame VC. With a million reasons against it. I don´t really get it too.
Most called for alternative would be a chat wheel. Which is something i would be ok with.
0 -
Yh idk why so many people dislike VC. "Ohhh noo people will be toxic" like dude have you SEEN endgame chat? People are going to be toxic. It's a fact of life on the internet and it's easy to mute people. But denying VC denies the loads of helpful players for being able to do anything for new players.
3 -
So basically you would be punished from playing the game which would most likely lead to major playerbase drop and the game eventually dying. Dbd is not competive game it's not two equal players versus each other it's one powerful vs 4 weaker ones but together strong.
0 -
Yes, vc is the one thing that separates solos from SWF and it would be the easiest solution to finally balance SWF without punishing them for playing with friends. Buuuut here we are.
2 -
Bruh if ur having this much trouble with a team of SWF, maybe ur not as high MMR as u think u are lol.
I mean, I’ve see. REAL high MMR players go on looooong win streaks. d3ad plays with nemesis, OTZ has a series dedicated to that. If im not mistakes theres a player with over 80 wins in their belt as blight. So it shouldn’t be that hard
0 -
SWF makes a big difference, I don't know if you know. High MMR killers can struggle with solos if they're efficient enough. SWF is like most of what they face though, and it's almost never easy, as most would have you believe. Some killer players like me try to make killers like Pig and Demogorgon work at high MMR; we don't get very far. Even with Blight, being on console mind you, struggling vs even average players is the norm. You are not required to be good at gens AND chase to beat good killers; just one will do, assuming your teammates are okay.
We might as well stop using kill streaks and escape streaks as meaningful evidence. They're the exception to the rule, and good/bad players being thrown into the mix is what makes or break them.
1 -
d3ad is one of the best killers in my opinion, i watch his twitch stream a lot, he LOSE many games, i didn't see more then 5 winstreak recently on his stream. OTZ made that work after countless attempts and 10k+ hours dedicated to the game.
0 -
At this point I think the devs could buff killers so their success rate is at 75-80% and there would still be a thread asking for 120 second gens and a buff for killers. Game is easier than it has ever been for killers. Maybe if you didn't murder so many casuals and inflate your MMR you wouldn't face squads that can only make it out if they sweat like the killers they face. It is sweaty at the top, take a towel.
4 -
You again miss the point. Game isn't supposed to be a free win in high mmr for survivors and a free lose to killers. That shouldn't be the case, and it's like that because DBD is balancing around bad survivors
Post edited by Kosturko92 on0 -
No.
0 -
Inflate MMR, perfectly well said. People keep wondering why game starts to sweaty when they sweated against casual survivors.
Killers want MMR should be based on hook, not kill. And you will see campers get 3k within 3 hooks is rewarded by versing potato survivors and keep dominating them because campers only get 3 hooks. While fair play killer 1k with 9 hooks is punished by versing hardcore survivors.
Everyone said MMR isnt skill based, which I agree. MMR is sweat based, and I like the MMR be like that.
0
