Buff Flip Flop to 65/70/75% and add 25% to survivor base kit
Slugging should be a little bit more risky. Giving players 25% flip flop base would achieve this.
The 25% extra wiggle progress would only be enough to make the difference quite rarely, and that would only be if killer leaves a survivor alone long enough to let them get full recovery progress.
The proposed buff to the Flip Flop perk is just to make up for the new difference.
Comments
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Wiggling isn't meant to be a reliable way to escape the killer without other survivors interfering.
So no they should not do this.
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I agree but also give killer stardusk, iron grasp and agitation basekit too xD
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I think that even with 25% flip flop, wiggling would be unreliable.
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Why though?
Killers are often forced to slug survivors and wiggling is not meant to be something that consistently gets you off the killer's shoulder without the help of a teammate or a perk. Wiggling exists so the killer can't take you to whatever hook they want across the map every single time and to give you a chance to escape if other survivors do interfere on your behalf.
Slugging is already going to become a lot less viable when base UB becomes a thing.
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I agree that OP's suggestion does not sound really good. Slugging already poses a risk of other survivors helping and picking themselves up without any hook benefit for successfully getting survivor. I think the only problem with slugging is when it's tied with camping said slugged person. But - it takes 4 minutes so it's kind of a game throwing behavior (so it very rarely happens) and there are few counter plays already (even if they are unreliable/hard) - so this is not even big deal.
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Uff, the combination of flip-flop, power struggle and the proposed basekit unbreakable would make survivor already unhookable at a pallet just by having a second survivor distracting/disturbing the killer for less than 10 seconds.
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Yes. That is intended. And yet you rarely see those perks. Maybe it's because it's such a huge perk investment that does not really pay out
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Translation: Allow Power Struggle to make it physically impossible to hook people.
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You would be suprised how many times survivor get to 75-90% wiggle progression.
So yeah, a killer slugging with this addition could be very punishing.
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That doesn't mean we should make lose-lose situations more easily accessible. I mean, yes, they are niche perks. Still, once they become easier to use and more accessible perk investment, it creates situations like the boil-over buff where there will be dedicated survivor teams aiming to create the most unfun gimmick builds to face, not even trying to win, just trying to be as annoying as possible lol. The only reason that people don't use those perks is that it's way easier and better off using other niche perks to create those situations. I see more head-on 4 flashlight locker animation locking SWFs than teams using that kind of build. Could you imagine if most survivor teams used those bully builds, it would be so unfun playing lower-tier killers; I'm just glad that most of the time when I'm facing them, I am playing killers who cancel out those situations like pyramid head at least to some degree.
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And yet, those games usually end up in 4k. They don't do gens. They loose a lot. It's tactics that won't get you anywhere
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Flip-Flop needs a buff. A small QoL change...
Keep the max wiggle progress allowed at 50%, but let it convert 100% of current recovery progress (up to 50%).
If you recover 10%, you have 10% wiggle
If you recover 50%, you have 50% wiggle
If you recover 95%, you have 50% wiggle
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I'm not married to the exact stats I put forward in the title of this thread. If a person has 20-30 seconds to get their bearings and 'recover', they should be harder to carry than someone who hasn't. Maybe the base difference shouldn't be 25%. Maybe it should only be 5 or 10 or 15.
I admit that this notion that those who've mostly 'recovered' should be harder to carry is based on my intuition, which is probably biased by me mostly playing survivor. And that even if my intuition is true, games aren't always improved by making them more realistic.
Still, I stand by the idea that some weaker version of flip flop should be added to the base kit, as has happened with a few perks in the past.
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Just because you win in the end doesn't make it fun. I wish there were a give-up button after a certain amount of time, like rainbow six's surrender as a bad example of how it might work or whatever, lol because I instead I wanna play normally, than play in a match where people are using gimmick builds to troll you like a trapper or any killers who can't do much against it. Is there a point in winning if it wasn't fun for you, that's why we play games, isn't it? To have fun.
Post edited by JustWhimsical on0 -
Exactly. And yet camping and tunneling is "valid tactics". Remove both. Even tho it would be harder to distinguish between bully squad and legit plays
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That's the problem, isn't it? Unfun playstyles aren't likely to ever go away for either side, and it's way too hard to balance niche perks in a way that they are suitable for both sides, not too strong and not too weak. It often causes mediocre perks to release, like boon: a dark theory that very much was released so weak due to fears it would be abused if they made it stronger.
There are tons of perks out there that are just better to use in an SWF, like head-on as a prime example which is why you often see teams of all using head-on because even though it's a bad perk, normally, when they can force flashlight saves it becomes a very fun and useful tool to use against killers, but often creates miserable matches for the said killer.
I wish there were a way to make it a healthy balance, but ever since the boil-over incident, I don't see how they can balance it, as there are always going to be cases where unfun playstyles come out. Now I would say boil-over still is a bad perk, it will never be a good perk unless they were able to give it a buff, but the buff has to be something that won't make it as bad when facing bully squads.
Although I think slugging and tunneling is a bit tricky as sometimes it is fine to use, like when all the survivors go out of their way to fall into your hands, and sometimes a survivor just is unlucky getting caught repairing a generator after a hook or 1-2 gens left which I feel is very much fine to tunnel in as you need a survivor out asap then typically there is a bit of nuance to it. Though tunneling at the start of the game is boring and slugging all survivors all the time without hooking anyone is dreadfully boring, and both should be removed.
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I don't mind tunneling so long as killer gives opportunity to reset. I mean technically it's still tunneling, but that's OK for me personally
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Same, I hate when they do it off the bat to my friends or me, as I'm not competitive in survivor and just wanna mess around with my friends. So it sucks when everyone is in a bad mood and, even worse, feeling like you can't help your friend out, though if it's close to the endgame is fair enough. Yeah, leaving everyone slugged and tunneling right off the bat in a game is just awful. What ideas do you have to make the game a bit more fun if you mind me asking I'm curious if you have any ideas I myself don't really know what can be done to deter killers from doing it.
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Just fixing camp should by proxy fix tunneling to satisfactory degree. Right now it's still quite rewarding.
One of the things that could lessen camping is removing healthy hook grabs. The other thing would be to make each hook phase longer for say 10 seconds. This would deter from camping (endgame camping is basically unaffected and that is fully OK - because at end game there is no other objectives for killer then to secure).
If killer does not camp, then it's harder to tunnel, because killer will need to find the survivor. This is already a huge step forward. As a bonus this will not stop killer from tunneling if survivors go save right to the face of a killer (without giving him an option to actually get away from hook), because this one is also on survivors.
This is not perfect, but I find it to be very large step forward in removing both tactics rewards for minimal input on killer's side.
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