Tombstone Myers and Syringes suck and shouldnt be in the game
You did some good work getting rid of stupid crap that breaks the game in keys and moris. How bout we talk about tombstone myers and syringes.
tombstone totally breaks the game, zero people have fun with it, it's nothing but a waste of a match essentially.
Syringes used after a hit are equally moronic. insta heal after 16 seconds can completely lose a game for a killer. I just had one.
Take the crap out of the game that makes it unbalanced and want to uninstall
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Yes, please
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Agreed remove both.
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I think the Syringes are fine. They used to be way worse granting an immediate health state, but the killer has a window to down the survivor before the heal goes off.
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Imo the syringe needs to not be affected by healing speed boosts, a flat 16s is fine
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Syringes? Fine.
Iri Tombstone? Fine.
Iri Tombstone with perma EWIII? Fine.
Perma EWIII? Fine.
Purple Tombstone? Needs a nerf (e.g. can only mori 1 person and no more EWIII after that or only people who have been hooked once or twice).
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These things are not equivalent.
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Disagree. I enjoy playing with and against tombstone Myers. Normally it is clear that he has it and you can dodge it by keep working on a gen or jump in lockers, if some randoms get moried, it becomes difficult but still challenging to get around it. Tombstone is no insta loss, especially because many Myers players focus too hard on it and lose a lot of pressure on gens doing so.
Agreed with syringe to be not effected by healing speeds, because normally it doesnt grant you an in-chase heal. Having to stop for a second and use it normally gives the killer enough time to catchup and down you quickly enough. But with green medkit and botany you are already at 8 seconds. This should not be possible. And having a single free heal per match is not that OP. Strong but not "needs to be removed"-level OP. Never heard anyone complain about Second wind, allowing up to 2 free heals without timeloss
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Don't you need to heal a person beforehand? At least that has a condition, the other stuff does not... So at the least the condition makes it so you won't always get value out of it...
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And what condition does alchemist ring have? Just a reminder - syringe is higher rarity then alch ring.
On the other hand I agree it should be flat 16s heal
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Alc ring should also get changed dude XD The same goes for compound 33 ... all just stupidly op addons...
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Yeah but once a match it should normally work, and you don't have to get out of your way to force value. You just play the game and on average get 1 heal per game. Basically the same as a syringe with the potential to be twice as good. If the free heal is the problem, then Second Wind would be a game changer and heavily discussed. But in numbers it only saves you 16 seconds that you can spend on a gen instead, which would be the same like a toolbox that finishes a gen 16 seconds faster.
I think the syringe hate is just "legacy" from what it used to be (which was definitely OP)
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It's been said for a long time. Buff Myers basekit, nerf or change his strongest addons.
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That's a completely different thing... The reason why syringe is hated is because you can use it in chase, not because it saves you 16 seconds... When you're playing an M1 Killer against sb. with a syringe it can be really rough... So first of all you don't know if it is a syringe or a styptic, so for like the first 8 seconds you cannot hit him without the risk of it beeing a styptic, during that time with increased healing speed he can already be fully healed by the syringe, which makes it even more ridiculous and after that he only needs to last for like 8 seconds... Which is not too hard in some places of some maps...
If you want to keep the addon in the game I would at least have it take more time to heal and not being able to be used while in chase or shortly after chase ended... Because that's why people really hate that addon...
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I said that already before, healing in chase causes you to stop, then it takes a second before the healing prompt appears and then you still need to start healing and press space which might take x milli seconds, and that buys time for the killer. a second of just standing is 4m of less distance the killer needs to cut, which is a lot. It is not that easy to heal midchase.
And btw, you could bring this argument too for Second Wind, because if the killer returns to you after the unhook, you get healed midchase. Still haven't heard any killer complain about it. Same about styptics? You get the free hit instantly and all you need is a window to vault within 8 seconds to force the killer hit you. No complaints either
Post edited by Deadeye on2 -
Oftentimes you will have the time to do exactly that, as some tiles offer you the time to wait and look what the killer is doing. Usually the people use it either after dropping a pallet or when they loose line of sight in a tile. I think it is almost always possible to use a styptic mid chase without much trouble...
When you come back to the hook and go for the same person again you kind of deserve to get hit by stuff like that... You have 10 seconds of BT with 110% ms in which you should not really get hit anyway unless the killer was right next to you during the unhook, and if he hits you during the bt time you'll just get rid of the deep wound... If people would complain that it is too hard to effectively tunnel people off of the hook they kind of deserved to be made fun of...
Besides I find the styptic also annoying but at least I can somewhat ignore it... For once its duration does not get affected by anything and also even if you find a window in time the only reason you might want to hit the survivor in that case is because you think it might be a syringe... And even if i hit into it at least the survivor has to mend, so even if it works it is not a complete loss for me...
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Well, my experience is that neither survs against me nor I can pull midchase heals that often, feels more like every 5th time.
And it IS a complete loss for you, at least I wouldn't define a 12 second mend compared to a lost chase + hook state as "not a loss". Or do you consider a successful DH as "not a loss" when you could have outplayed it instead?
And while I kinda agree with Second Wind helping out in situations like that, I disagree with calling it "deserved". I think with the current meta (and age of the game) we should be over the point of blaming officially accepted strategies.
Btw on another thread where I said that mid chase heals are more difficult, I got multiple responses that the problem is the free heal, allowing survviors to instantly hop on gens and save 16 seconds of healing time :P
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Tombstone Myers is one of the best things in this game.
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You are clearly not facing it often. Getting insta-morried out of the blue without any real indication or warning is not exactly "best thing in the game". At least with double iri you know what is happening by not getting EW3 for so long. Against piece you just randomly die
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It's not random. You let him succ all the way to Tier 3. People are acting like this is the old Mori system.
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There are even rare sights of people pulling off a full heal during a chase and not just a syringe... I'm pretty sure using a syringe in chase is possible in most games against M1 killers...
Like I said not a complete loss, of course it is bad... but at least you get something out of it...
No we should not... We should never accept unfun things in games and always try to improve the game itself as well as the mentality while playing it... And one of the most boring things in the game is just getting tunneled off the hook, so no matter what behaviour thinks about it I would still say it is an issue... They even adressed it in some patches, just because it is not a reportable offense does not mean they themselves think it is a healthy game mechanic...
Ok good for them, I still don't think that's the point but whatever grinds their gears I guess... Like I said before if it could only be used outside of chase it would still not be entirely fine but better than it is right now.
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It is literally impossible to not get t3 as Myers... Maybe it will take some time because of line of sight blockers or distance, but eventually he will get it... Also without communication how would you know if he has sucked more than he usually needs to get his t3? It is a ridiculous addon and needs to get changed...
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Im not talking about "possible". I said in my experience it is like 1 of 5. If you waste 4 chases by losing too much distance and wasting your ultra rare addon to get one good effect, then this is not really a problem. And as I said, I get also other responses that the "free heal" is the problem.
I'm not saying this is not strong, Im just saying that I think syringe hate is legacy and the current item is far from "it has to go". If we discuss about "unfun" things, then killers are not allowed to kill and survivors are not allowed to escape. This is extremely subjective. Unbalanced and unfair things have to go, as well as majorly flawed design as FL locker abuse, mori spamming or Reassurance hostage, which all disappeared. If we talk about unfun, we would have to remove DH, DS, boons, NOED, latency hits, Nurse and Blight, teabagging, hook beating and nodding, body blocking...
How do you want to adress tunneling? As long as the game is as it is, it will ALWAYS be the best thing to do, as a 3v1 is much easier to handle than a 4v1. You need to change the core of the game (which will not happen) or need an incentive/reward for hooking everyone once that is equally strong to the killer as playing a 3v1
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I mean experience is all subjective and maybe it just does not align with everyone so maybe some people often get value out of it and I would assume experienced players can manage to get value out of the syringe most of the time, but then again as matchmaking is basically old red ranks you won't always get good survivors to go against and therefore often have people that don't know what they re doing... Both sides can be true but neither is guaranteed to show the real picture...
There are for sure some unfun things that have to go as the hinder the gameplay in many forms for example facecamping as bubba, and others are somewhat reasonable to keep... I for example really like going against Nurse or Blight , especially Nurse... And I don't think hook beating or nodding is much of a problem at all, I think nodding makes some really fun situations ... Imagine for example a Wesker accidentally vaults a window in which he got baited by the survivor and the survivor just stands on the other side, or even upstairs of the building just nodding, thats funny as f man from both sides, I just love it when that happens ^^
There are some good ways to adress tunneling for exampel we could remove collision of the survivor that got unhook for a certain amount of time... So he cannot abuse his bt to bodyblock and take a hit, but he is guaranteed to reach a safer area, maybe even give the killer a small buff or debuff respectively for tunneling or not tunneling... Let's say the killer does not hook the same person twice in a row so now his next gen kick gets a small bonus or sth? Or the other way around he is in fact tunneling then the hook timer just takes an additional x amount of seconds, so he cannot get the person out quickly... I think we could come up with many good solutions that would provide the killer with other things to do... Or give him a BBQ on the furthest away survivor after the hook so he has someone else to chase instead of aimlessly wandering around the map...
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Honestly I don't mind getting tombstoned, is more like a meme build anyway, just don't take it serious and move on to next game. I do find syringes lame tho (too strong for little effort) so I never use them.
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I mean tombstone + perma t3 yes... Tombstone piece is not a meme though xD It's his strongest addon and can easily win you the game when you just turn it into a 3v1...
I mean I generally don't mind if I lose a game either, but from a balance perspective that does not really get us anywhere..
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As I have moved back to killer and playing Myers for the last two days, I absolutely agree with you about tombstone.
I never use it and never will. I know it takes some time to charge to tier 3 with it but taking someone out the game before first hook is not fun for the other side, also not good for bp fir killer either. If Myers carries a tombstone, the terror radius should be that of a normal killer, 32 meters, from tier 2. A lot don't notice Myers immediately, with his low terror radius, allowing the stalking progress to go by faster in some games. Maybe make it after first hook or something?
Syringes I have no problems with, as they take time to complete, but should not work faster with perks, like botany. They should work in a set time at all times.
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I have seen many games where Survivors get a 4E before the Myers can get to Tier 3. Your "literally impossible" claim is literally false.
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You can easily activate it mid chase. Get hit -> speed to pallet -> pop syringe -> drop pallet -> loop for a few seconds -> heal. That is not hard at all.
Second Wind is not the same at all. You need to meet a requirement that isn't that easy to get with CoH and medkits encouraging self heals. Most times the killer won't even be affected by it unless they are tunnelling. And you could've healed even faster than that if you had just brought a med kit yourself. Also you can't activate it on demand so if you're unhooked at a bad time then you're still screwed with it. Also if you get with BT active then you don't get the full heal anymore.
Styptics aren't as bad as they can be waited out and can't be used in safe areas as easily like Syringe. With Syringe, you use it when you know you can last another 16 seconds, with styptic you have to use it when you are NOT in a safe area which the killer can play around more easily. Messing up against Styptic is less punishing than Syringe as well as at least they get deep wound and still have to heal. Styptic give 3 health states, Syringe gives 4. That's why people hate it more.
TL;DR - Second Wind and Styptic have more counterplay. Syringe has none except 'hope they mess up'.
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How can someone manage to be that bad? i takes like 5 seconds of stalking from a mid distance XD Or was it an indoor map and the pre run all the time with old spine chill? Because otherwhise that's just not happeneing... I've never seen that in my 2k hours... I mean infinite t3 and tombstone for sure... That takes ages... but normal t3 or tombstone piece no way in hell dude...
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It takes 5 seconds to tier up to t2 and 5 seconds to tier up to t3 without addons... How can you take the entire match and not be able to do that man?
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or 6 seconds, not entirely sure but still that's really that much time...
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No way are you getting to instakill mode in 10 seconds.
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I like how you ignored the point where I said "without addons" XD tombstone piece makes it 250% for the first time... so 12/15 seconds from t2 to t3... So like 17/20 in total... at least ... It's really not that much dude... You will get your t3 several times every match if you don't run addons... So you should get t3 with tombstone piece every match as well.
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Explain to me how you could manage to not get to t3 in a game... even with tombstone piece...
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I have seen meyers never getting T3. It included one of mirrors or killer DC. Very rarely with bad meyers and double iri. With piece? Never
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How can someone manage to be that bad? i takes like 5 seconds of stalking from a mid distance XD Or was it an indoor map and the pre run all the time with old spine chill? Because otherwhise that's just not happeneing... I've never seen that in my 2k hours... I mean infinite t3 and tombstone for sure... That takes ages... but normal t3 or tombstone piece no way in hell dude...
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How can someone manage to be that bad? i takes like 5 seconds of stalking from a mid distance XD Or was it an indoor map and the pre run all the time with old spine chill? Because otherwhise that's just not happeneing... I've never seen that in my 2k hours... I mean infinite t3 and tombstone for sure... That takes ages... but normal t3 or tombstone piece no way in hell dude...
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How can someone manage to be that bad? i takes like 5 seconds of stalking from a mid distance XD Or was it an indoor map and the pre run all the time with old spine chill? Because otherwhise that's just not happeneing... I've never seen that in my 2k hours... I mean infinite t3 and tombstone for sure... That takes ages... but normal t3 or tombstone piece no way in hell dude...
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How can someone manage to be that bad? It takes like 5 seconds of stalking from a mid distance XD Or was it an indoor map and the pre run all the time with old spine chill? Because otherwhise that's just not happeneing... I've never seen that in my 2k hours... I mean infinite t3 and tombstone for sure... That takes ages... but normal t3 or tombstone piece no way in hell dude...
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Why does it sometimes just not post what you intially wrote and tells you it needsto be checked first, just because you corrected a typo and then this happens where the post just gets spammed a dozen times...
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Exactly it's really not that hard to just look at people...
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I can see you are very passionate about this, since you felt the need to post it over and over and over again.
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Like I explained before, but you apparently don't read everything... I posted it once, wanted to edit it and then it said something about it needs to be approved... that was several hours ago... And then it never loaded... And now it got posted several times.. And since I apparently cannot delete a post for some idiotic reason it just stays I guess...
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Iri Tombstone is 'fine'. In that it's fine for an ultra rare add on to provide a killer as limited as Myers with an effect like that. However pairing it with an add on that allows you to stalk more or faster is not 'fine'.
Much like Iri Head Huntress was nerfed so that she couldn't increase her capacity above 1, Myers should also have the stipulation that running Judith's Tombstone means his minimum required stalking time never drops below a certain threshold, so it takes a minimum of say 3-4 gens or several hooks in order to acquire it.
Syringe should get the BNP treatment. Over the next 16s, the survivor will passively gain 50% of a health state, and require a skill check or it fails. This means you need to recover 50% first, and then the survivor being healed has to complete the skill check to receive the additional 50%.
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I think since you get slowed down by iri tombstone and basically can only use it with the other iri addon it is fine as a meme combination... Nobody runs that one with increased stalking anway... Only the purple tombstone piece addon is the issue...
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